WHS + Folding build

[Flying Fox]

Hi all, I have been mentioning this for a while and it's time to ask for some info and confirmation for the components. I would also like opinions on platform choice because I am kind of struggling without enough info.

Purpose: File server to consolidated storage using Windows Home Server which will stay on 24x7; I figure I may as well make the machine Foldable since I can (still) afford power costs. I am replacing my aging Windows 2003 server box.
Budget: I don't believe in "no budget", just big budget variances. I do want to keep the costs down, so let's say CAN$500 or below is preferred but my variance can be large, both plus and minus.

So let's get into component choices.

RAM: Have a kit of 2x1GiB OCZ DDR2-800 that I want to reuse.
HDD: Going to start off with 2x WD 1TB Black. At ~$100 each they are the price/performance/reliability king IMO. I could have gone for the Green, but I have read about some parking issues and the 5 year warranty means more to me.
Optical: May just borrow one from my stash for install, at worst it is like $30 for something.
OS: WHS (duh!), count that as about ~CAN$100 already spent

Here comes the part where I need the Collective Gerbil Wisdom^TM.

CPU:
It is between the Pentium Dual Core E6300 and AthlonII X2 245/250. For the file serving part I can even get away with an Atom, but I want to Fold. These 2 are cheap enough processors with dual cores for the occasional BitTorrent/FTP and can also Fold with the SMP client. Based on the discussion here I don't think I can do GPU folding at this point, not to mention I don't want to afford the higher extra power consumption with a discrete GPU. Another characteristic I am looking at is VT/AMD-V where I can run a 64-bit VM on a 32-bit host.
So my question is: which one can Fold faster? I can go up to the X2 250 for 200MHz more, but I have a feeling that the SSE advantage in the Core 2 architecture still makes it a better CPU folder? Besides I can overclock the E6300 a little to ~3-3.2GHz (no need for the "natural" 3.5GHz). I am leaning towards the Intel platform because of my projected Folding performance (correct me please if I am wrong) and SATA/NCQ/general stability advantage of Intel chipsets.

Motherboard:
It will depend largely on the CPU chosen. The considerations here include the number of SATA ports and potential for HDD expansion. For an AMD build, I will need an AM2+ board as well since I want to reuse my DDR2 kit. The interesting twist here is that I have a P5K-VM which has a PCIe x4 slot for future SATA expansion, so I can get away with "only" 4 SATA ports. My vision is that it will go up to 4-6 drives eventually, and then I will see where I go from there. So should I pick a board with 6 SATA ports? Or 4 SATA ports with a PCIe x4/x8 slot? What about P3x/4x boards? Discrete GPU+motherboard gives me more PCIe flexibility and I do have a spare HD3450 lying around, but the extra power consumption seems not worth it? Should I just reuse the P5K-VM and get a G43/45 board for my existing box? Choice here will be between Gigabyte or Asus, but if someone knows something stable based on real life usage I am all ears.

Case:
This is another piece that I need help. The requirement here of course is to have lots of drive bays for expansion. I have an additional ~20" height restriction so full tower cases are out. I would like front fans to blow gently into the HDDs. So my initial pick is the Antec 300. Six (6) 3.5" bay that may be close but I can stick 2 front fans in there to counter the tight space. I have found some Cooler Masters (690, 3xx?) that boast 7 3.5" bays but the front fans setup is not as good? Any other cheaper or better alternatives?

PSU:
If I do go to 6+ drives with no discrete GPU, can I get away with a modern 430W? Also, depending on the case I may need to think about fan positioning. If I do settle on an Antec 300, the PSU will be placed at the bottom not participating in the rest of the airflow, so I figure I should probably go with a PSU with a rear fan not a bottom fan? Cable management is not an issue here as this is just a file server with no crazy overclocking. So I don't need modular. Current thinking: Corsair 450VX or Antec EarthWatts 430? Should I go for a bit more amperage? I have an old Seasonic S12-430 and an Antec Neo 430 as well so i can buy a bigger one for my own box and use the old ones if need be.

Feedback and discussions please. Thanks in advance.

Edit #1: As for extra fans, it would probably be either TriCools (on low) or Scythe S-Flex, they can be part of my rather large budget variance. IOW, no need to worry about the cost for those.

Edit #2: The plan as of Nov 12:
WHS build:
Asus P5K-VM (already have)
2x1GiB OCZ DDR2-800 Platinum Revision 2 (already have)
Pentium Dual-Core E6300
2x1TB WD Caviar Black (bought 2 weeks ago on a deal, not counting in this shopping cart)
Antec VSK-2000 case
Seasonic S12-430 430W PSU (already have)

Replacement build (from the old E2160+P5K-VM my current box):
Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H
AMD Athlon II X2 250
RAM, HDD, case, floppy, fans, etc. (already have)
* E2160 sold

Edit #3:
The build has begun after a n00b false-start.

Edit #4:
Build and test time.

[mmmmmdonuts21]

For your CPU choice, I have an additional idea for your build. If you are going to do folding, I would maybe recommend a four core processor. The AMD Athlon II X620 is a four core processor that has all your requirements you desire along with an additional two cores for folding. It is a little slower at 2.6GHz but that shouldn't make to much of a difference because of the two additional cores. This will allow you to easily run SMP clients for F@H, and it is just 22 dollars more if you could spring for it. Here is the link:

http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=449644

Motherboard:
If you are going the AMD route than I would get a MB with at least 6 SATA connections and discrete graphics. With additional hard drives these seem to get used up very quickly. There are plenty of AMD3 MB's that have support for DDR2 memory still.

PSU: I think a the two power supplies you listed by both Antec and Corsair should be ample for your build. I personally like Corsair but that's just my opinion.

[Airmantharp]

Hi all, I have been mentioning this for a while and it's time to ask for some info and confirmation for the components. I would also like opinions on platform choice because I am kind of struggling without enough info.

Nice to see a regular commenter posting about their own project and inviting suggestions, I'll bite!

CPU:
It is between the Pentium Dual Core E6300 and AthlonII X2 245/[urlhttp://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=448343]250[/url]. For the file serving part I can even get away with an Atom, but I want to Fold. These 2 are cheap enough processors with dual cores for the occasional BitTorrent/FTP and can also Fold with the SMP client. Based on the discussion here I don't think I can do GPU folding at this point, not to mention I don't want to afford the higher extra power consumption with a discrete GPU. Another characteristic I am looking at is VT/AMD-V where I can run a 64-bit VM on a 32-bit host.
So my question is: which one can Fold faster? I can go up to the X2 250 for 200MHz more, but I have a feeling that the SSE advantage in the Core 2 architecture still makes it a better CPU folder? Besides I can overclock the E6300 a little to ~3-3.2GHz (no need for the "natural" 3.5GHz). I am leaning towards the Intel platform because of my projected Folding performance (correct me please if I am wrong) and SATA/NCQ/general stability advantage of Intel chipsets.

I'll bet the Penryn based CPU will win, especially when overclocked. Also, unlike donuts below, I don't think you should go for a quad core; that'd be nice, but outside of folding, which is a secondary concern, there is absolutely no need to be able to handle more threads, only to execute them quickly. It's a fine line though, and I like AMD as much as everyone else, but given that you're worried below about chipset performance, I'm siding with Intel here; they make the best, most stable chipsets in the business. Also, again with respect to the quad core suggestion, if you were to be buying parts specifically for folding, you'd be buying discrete GPU's.

Motherboard:
It will depend largely on the CPU chosen. The considerations here include the number of SATA ports and potential for HDD expansion. For an AMD build, I will need an AM2+ board as well since I want to reuse my DDR2 kit. The interesting twist here is that I have a P5K-VM which has a PCIe x4 slot for future SATA expansion, so I can get away with "only" 4 SATA ports. My vision is that it will go up to 4-6 drives eventually, and then I will see where I go from there. So should I pick a board with 6 SATA ports? Or 4 SATA ports with a PCIe x4/x8 slot? What about P3x/4x boards? Discrete GPU+motherboard gives me more PCIe flexibility and I do have a spare HD3450 lying around, but the extra power consumption seems not worth it? Should I just reuse the P5K-VM and get a G43/45 board for my existing box? Choice here will be between Gigabyte or Asus, but if someone knows something stable based on real life usage I am all ears.

Reiterating what I said above, and it sounds like you're already leaning Intel here; I would be too. If I were you, I'd pick up a G43/45 board with the SATA ports you need from our favorite board makers. You could just as easily get a P45, or anything else, if you wanted to use the 3450, but those cards are a little light on shader power, IIRC, which would defeat the purpose.

Case:
This is another piece that I need help. The requirement here of course is to have lots of drive bays for expansion. I have an additional ~20" height restriction so full tower cases are out. I would like front fans to blow gently into the HDDs. So my initial pick is the Antec 300. Six (6) 3.5" bay that may be close but I can stick 2 front fans in there to counter the tight space. I have found some Cooler Masters (690, 3xx?) that boast 7 3.5" bays but the front fans setup is not as good? Any other cheaper or better alternatives?

Does the case need to be quiet, or does it just need to be able to cool hard drives and a lightly overclocked CPU? I'd push you toward that Antec 300, or if you're real serious about noise, a P183; but if there' s no need for an insulated case than anything that can hold the drives would obviously do. I feel that where you're going to put this box is going to make a big difference on our recommendation, so get back to us on that!

PSU:
If I do go to 6+ drives with no discrete GPU, can I get away with a modern 430W? Also, depending on the case I may need to think about fan positioning. If I do settle on an Antec 300, the PSU will be placed at the bottom not participating in the rest of the airflow, so I figure I should probably go with a PSU with a rear fan not a bottom fan? Cable management is not an issue here as this is just a file server with no crazy overclocking. So I don't need modular. Current thinking: Corsair 450VX or Antec EarthWatts 430? Should I go for a bit more amperage? I have an old Seasonic S12-430 and an Antec Neo 430 as well so i can buy a bigger one for my own box and use the old ones if need be.

I don't see any reason for a bigger PSU with just a couple of hard drives attached. Hard drives don't take up much power outside of POST, and the rest of your components will be pretty light. If you've got an older, but sturdy unit like the Seasonic you mention, I see no reason to buy anything else!

[Flying Fox]

For your CPU choice, I have an additional idea for your build. If you are going to do folding, I would maybe recommend a four core processor. The AMD Athlon II X620 is a four core processor that has all your requirements you desire along with an additional two cores for folding. It is a little slower at 2.6GHz but that shouldn't make to much of a difference because of the two additional cores. This will allow you to easily run SMP clients for F@H, and it is just 22 dollars more if you could spring for it.

The power consumption+cost equation tips the quad out of favour I'm afraid. I'm ok with ~1000-1500ppd with a rough guesstimate of ~120W draw at the wall (will confirm with my trusty old Kill-A-Watt), but my P5K-VM+E2160@1.4375V is doing about 110W folding with the WinSMP client). Still the E6300 looks pretty good on the power consumption front plus the Core 2 SSE power on the SMP Gromacs, only the cost makes it look bad.

I'll bet the Penryn based CPU will win, especially when overclocked. Also, unlike donuts below, I don't think you should go for a quad core; that'd be nice, but outside of folding, which is a secondary concern, there is absolutely no need to be able to handle more threads, only to execute them quickly. It's a fine line though, and I like AMD as much as everyone else, but given that you're worried below about chipset performance, I'm siding with Intel here; they make the best, most stable chipsets in the business. Also, again with respect to the quad core suggestion, if you were to be buying parts specifically for folding, you'd be buying discrete GPU's.

I share basically the same ideas as you. Also, refer the linked thread in my OP discussing RDP on Win2K3, it basically means GPU folding is out both on power consumption and the fact that it simply won't work.

Motherboard:
If you are going the AMD route than I would get a MB with at least 6 SATA connections and discrete graphics. With additional hard drives these seem to get used up very quickly. There are plenty of AMD3 MB's that have support for DDR2 memory still.

So the question becomes, get a 4-port board and rely on new PCIe card for further expansion, or just go for 6-port and see how it goes?

Reiterating what I said above, and it sounds like you're already leaning Intel here; I would be too. If I were you, I'd pick up a G43/45 board with the SATA ports you need from our favorite board makers. You could just as easily get a P45, or anything else, if you wanted to use the 3450, but those cards are a little light on shader power, IIRC, which would defeat the purpose.

According to my no-so-TR-esque testing, my G33 board with E2160 and IGP does about ~110W at the wall folding, same setup with my HD3450 goes up to ~130W. I imagine going with a P3x/P4x board will have the same power consumption delta. The thing is though, only my P5K-VM board has a x4 slot even with its "puny" 4 SATA ports. With a x4 slot I can get decent RAID cards for either more SATA ports of a real RAID array down the road (I imagine it will be a while I realistically go up to 4 drives though). That's why I am contemplating re-purposing my G33 board for this build and grab a more recent G45 board with my current system; the downside being I need to do 2 builds at once and I am down one machine to use during the build+test+install period.

Does the case need to be quiet, or does it just need to be able to cool hard drives and a lightly overclocked CPU? I'd push you toward that Antec 300, or if you're real serious about noise, a P183; but if there' s no need for an insulated case than anything that can hold the drives would obviously do. I feel that where you're going to put this box is going to make a big difference on our recommendation, so get back to us on that!

Already gave you guys a clue. My ~20" height restriction means that I am putting the case in some sort of "workstation cabinet" from Ikea. There is front and back airflow but not the side, so most likely I will cover the side vent. Noise is not as important as your other posts suggest, but it just needs to be low volume (and no high pitch whine) enough. My current PSU on the Win2K3 server is much louder anyway. P183 is out both for costs and not enough drive bays. If there is something like 10x 3.5" drive bays with fan mounts in front it would be perfect, I don't need 4 5.25" bays really.

Any other ideas on the case?

PSU: I think a the two power supplies you listed by both Antec and Corsair should be ample for your build. I personally like Corsair but that's just my opinion.

The problem is most of these "consumer level" boards don't have staggered spin-up, so with a potential 4-6+ drive config I don't know if they can handle them?

I don't see any reason for a bigger PSU with just a couple of hard drives attached. Hard drives don't take up much power outside of POST, and the rest of your components will be pretty light. If you've got an older, but sturdy unit like the Seasonic you mention, I see no reason to buy anything else!

Like my current P5K-VM board, I have the opportunity to re-purpose either one of my current PSUs and buy a new bigger one for my current box, which when Starcraft 2 comes I'll be sticking a real graphics card in. Or I can just buy another PSU now for this build. As I said I may need to think about bottom vs rear fan depending on the case I will be choosing. As for the power output, I am a bit worried about the inability of these boards to do staggered spin-up.

[wibeasley]

I run a Q9550 on an Asus P45, and my power consumption numbers are NOT well represented by that chart. I think it's because mine has a puny 6 year old ATI, instead of a 4870. When all four cores are pushed hard, it draws 136W with the discrete gpu, and roughly 128W without. It's idling at 88W now with the gpu (it has one 640BG Caviar Black). It's on balanced power mode on Vista; a Seasonic Power Angel is measuring the draw.

But the Pentiums and Athlons also probably would consume ~60 fewer watts in a comparable system (relative to the chart you linked).

Regarding the Antec Three Hundreds, it's slightly a shame that its 140mm top exhaust fan would have less than 2" to vent in the 20" cabinent. However when I played around with the fan speeds, the temperatures didn't change much.

[JustAnEngineer]

RAM: Have a kit of 2x1GiB OCZ DDR2-800 that I want to reuse.

It's worth only CA$30. That may not be enough cost savings to justify deflecting your new build from a more modern DDR3 option.

HDD: Going to start off with 2x WD 1TB Black.
Optical: May just borrow one from my stash for install, at worst it is like $30 for something.
OS: WHS (duh!), count that as about ~CAN$100 already spent

Those look like fine choices to me.

My P5K-VM board has a x4 slot even with its "puny" 4 SATA ports. With a x4 slot I can get decent RAID cards for either more SATA ports of a real RAID array down the road (I imagine it will be a while I realistically go up to 4 drives though). That's why I am contemplating re-purposing my G33 board for this build...

I strongly endorse this option, but I suggest that you should take it further than just getting another LGA775 motherboard for your main system. Transfer your existing G33 motherboard, E2160 processor and DDR2 RAM to your new server. Build a new DDR3-based PC for your main system. LGA1156 would be quite nice, but if you don't want/need top processing performance, Socket-AM3 would be an economical choice. If you don't play games, 785G (Radeon HD4200) integrated graphics would make Socket-AM3 quite appealing.

CA$120 Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2
CA$229 -10 combo Intel Ci5 750
or CA$324 -15 combo Intel Ci7 860
CA$ 83 2x2 GiB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
CA$ 0 Existing graphics card

My ~20" height restriction means that I am putting the case in some sort of "workstation cabinet" from Ikea.

How DEEP is your cabinet? Some cases are significantly deeper than they are tall (Silverstone TJ05S-X, for example). The Antec Two Hundred is not as deep.

I have my HTPC housed in a compact micro-ATX case (Asus TM-210, which required new fans and PSU to work). Would something like the Antec Mini P180 suit your needs?

[Flying Fox]

I run a Q9550 on an Asus P45, and my power consumption numbers are NOT well represented by that chart. I think it's because mine has a puny 6 year old ATI, instead of a 4870. When all four cores are pushed hard, it draws 136W with the discrete gpu, and roughly 128W without. It's idling at 88W now with the gpu (it has one 640BG Caviar Black). It's on balanced power mode on Vista; a Seasonic Power Angel is measuring the draw.

But the Pentiums and Athlons also probably would consume ~60 fewer watts in a comparable system (relative to the chart you linked).

If a Q9550+P45+old ATI card only draws 128W on load, then it indicates that compared to my E2160 @3GHz (pretty high volted at 1.4375V to combat Vdroop), the Wolfdale E6300 at near stock should give me pretty good power savings.

Regarding the Antec Three Hundreds, it's slightly a shame that its 140mm top exhaust fan would have less than 2" to vent in the 20" cabinent. However when I played around with the fan speeds, the temperatures didn't change much.

Like the side vent, I may close that one too. I will go with a front and rear fan to begin with.

RAM: Have a kit of 2x1GiB OCZ DDR2-800 that I want to reuse.

It's worth only CA$30. That may not be enough cost savings to justify deflecting your new build from a more modern DDR3 option.

Every bit helps, and for a file server I don't need modern option. There will be a new rig with DDR3 and PhII/i5/i7 soon enough.

Transfer your existing G33 motherboard, E2160 processor and DDR2 RAM to your new server.

Actually my current build is sitting with newer 2x2GiB G.Skill DDR2-1066. The 2x1GiB was upgraded at least 3 months ago so the sticks are really gathering dust. Besides, (E2160 != VT) => no 64-bit Linux SMP Folding VM on 32-bit WHS. That is actually why initially I thought the X2 250 was going to be a pretty good choice.

Build a new DDR3-based PC for your main system. LGA1156 would be quite nice, but if you don't want/need top processing performance, Socket-AM3 would be an economical choice. If you don't play games, 785G (Radeon HD4200) integrated graphics would make Socket-AM3 quite appealing.

That thought has definitely crossed my mind, but not now. Playing 3D games would be a next-year affair at the earliest (SC2) so I may probably build then. With the 2x2GiB in my current system I would really like to just grab a cheap board and get a new build up, but of course a double motherboard switch (one new + one transfer) would mean I am down 2 machines at once. The E2160 would serve as my main box for a while until my next build, then the E2160 would replace that aging S939 X2 system (remember that? ).

CA$120 Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2
CA$229 -10 combo Intel Ci5 750
or CA$324 -15 combo Intel Ci7 860
CA$ 83 2x2 GiB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
CA$ 0 Existing graphics card

That kind of blows the budget, but would figure prominently in my next build no doubt. (The 785G's inability to do 7.1 LPCM is starting to bug me more and more now that I am reading the stuff.)

My ~20" height restriction means that I am putting the case in some sort of "workstation cabinet" from Ikea.

How DEEP is your cabinet? Some cases are significantly deeper than they are tall (Silverstone TJ05S-X, for example). The Antec Two Hundred is not as deep.

Depth restriction is also <20". The TJ05S-X is interesting, but it is too deep and I can't seem to find them available. The 200 does not have the possible full frontal fans to blow over the HDDs.

I have my HTPC housed in a compact micro-ATX case (Asus TM-210, which required new fans and PSU to work). Would something like the Antec Mini P180 suit your needs?

Drive bay count. This is a file server after all. Besides, the Mini P180 costs more than the 300.

Interesting case ideas, keep them flowing please.

[MadManOriginal]

The 45nm Intel CPUs are very power efficient. With a kill-a-watt I measured my undervolted e7300 on a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P and two WD 1TB Blacks at ~60W idle and I think 85W P95 load. (I posted once about this on the front page but it turns out my UPS's built-in power meter is way off ) That's with an ANCIENT PCI video card though, a Diamond Stealth 64 S3 Trio If you want power savings get a board that allows undervolting it helps. If you're going to oc it then it doesn't matter of course but a board that can oc with less vcore will help.

You mentioned folding in a Linux VM though. If that's the case can you use the VM to do GPU folding?

[Flying Fox]

The 45nm Intel CPUs are very power efficient. With a kill-a-watt I measured my undervolted e7300 on a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P and two WD 1TB Blacks at ~60W idle and I think 85W P95 load. (I posted once about this on the front page but it turns out my UPS's built-in power meter is way off ) That's with an ANCIENT PCI video card though, a Diamond Stealth 64 S3 Trio If you want power savings get a board that allows undervolting it helps. If you're going to oc it then it doesn't matter of course but a board that can oc with less vcore will help.

The power consumption curve is not linear though, but this is a good clue that compared to the E2160 I would come out even better, especially for whatever light OC that I may do, I may get away with sticking with stock Vcore or even undervolt a little.

You mentioned folding in a Linux VM though. If that's the case can you use the VM to do GPU folding?

Interesting idea, but I think I need to have proper 3D drivers installed on the host system first before doing this (where RDP will reset the host 3D drivers as mentioned before)? Also there are initial acquisition cost (decent Folding discrete CPU is like say ~CAN$80?) and power consumption. So I think I am ruling this out, may be others can take the idea in their builds though.

Keep in mind that I am not after absolute power saving, temperature, or silence, etc. in this build. I'm looking at a somewhat balanced system for the purposes that I have stated.

[JustAnEngineer]

I'm still a big believer in the trickle down theory of upgrades, but if you really don't want to work on your existing LGA775 system, we can find a solution for your folding box / server.

CA$120 AMD Athlon II X4 620
CA$ 90 -20 combo Asus M4A785-M
or CA$100 Gigabyte GA-MA785G-UD3H (Winner of Tech Report Editor's Award!)
CA$ 0 Existing DDR2 memory
CA$ 0 Integrated graphics

Drive bay count. This is a file server after all.

How about the CA$70 CoolerMaster Centurion 590? You can add more 4-in-3 device modules to bring your drive count up to a baker's dozen. You could also use the 4-in-3 module in something like the CA$80 CoolerMaster Gladiator 600.

[Flying Fox]

I'm still a big believer in the trickle down theory of upgrades, but if you really don't want to work on your existing LGA775 system, we can find a solution for your folding box / server.

That one is not a deal breaker. If I absolutely refuse to work on the current system I think I'll be losing geekpoints big time here. FWIW I'm trying to see if I can trickle down that E2160 too, although selling it has also crossed my mind. The thing is it is a bit tough to let go stuff that I have tested to be decent overclockers which also give me decent stability. Remember I spend a lot of time testing the settings before putting all my stuff to "production" so there is certain sentimental value to each component that passed my production-ready tests. (Crying for my S939 X2 now it's a good piece of hardware)

CA$120 AMD Athlon II X4 620

Cost, power consumption, and heat. I know it will give me more Folding points, but I simply don't want it there.

CA$ 90 -20 combo Asus M4A785-M
or CA$100 Gigabyte GA-MA785G-UD3H (Winner of Tech Report Editor's Award!)

What's the latest word on AHCI, NCQ, and all that with the 785G chipset? I know this is going to spark a debate as to the stability of Intel vs AMD chipsets, but let's hear some field reports.

Unfortunately a 785G board is not in the cards yet for my next build with the 7.1 LPCM issue, but things will change before my next build anyways. Base on the reviews I'm sure it is a good board for many others.

Drive bay count. This is a file server after all.

How about the CA$70 CoolerMaster Centurion 590? You can add more 4-in-3 device modules to bring your drive count up to a baker's dozen. You could also use the 4-in-3 module in something like the CA$80 CoolerMaster Gladiator 600.

Interesting ideas JAE, although the 3-in-1 module doesn't say it works with the 590, however on NCIX there seems to be word that it may work. However, two things work against the Centurion 590: costs and the LED fan (I can mod but the Antec 300 allows me to buy the Scythe/TriCool that I want anyway). At this point in the game I am having a really hard time not to get the Antec 300.

JAE, any idea about the PSU and the non-existence of staggered spin-ups?

[Airmantharp]

That 4-in-3 module looks like it will work in pretty much any case that has 3 standard 5.25" bays open; I used a similar Antec 900 drive bay device to add an intake fan to the top section of my P180. It looks like the fan is easier to replace on this CM unit, and it's in stock at Newegg, for your convenience!

Oh, and if you're concerned about cooling ability and noise, the Tri-cools are out. Even in my insulated P180, they were too loud on medium and moved too little air on low; they're replaced with Scythe S-Flex E's that are largely motherboard controlled, which move more air on medium while being almost as quiet as they were on low. Get D's, and it'll be silent.

[wibeasley]

I run a Q9550 on an Asus P45, and my power consumption numbers are NOT well represented by that chart. I think it's because mine has a puny 6 year old ATI, instead of a 4870. When all four cores are pushed hard, it draws 136W with the discrete gpu, and roughly 128W without. It's idling at 88W now with the gpu (it has one 640BG Caviar Black).

But the Pentiums and Athlons also probably would consume ~60 fewer watts in a comparable system (relative to the chart you linked).

If a Q9550+P45+old ATI card only draws 128W on load, then it indicates that compared to my E2160 @3GHz (pretty high volted at 1.4375V to combat Vdroop), the Wolfdale E6300 at near stock should give me pretty good power savings.

If you remember, could you measure the consumption on your new server before you add multiple HDDs? I'd like to know how much less it is less than the E6300 on the chart (or whatever cpu you get).

Interesting case ideas, keep them flowing please.

This isn't an interesting idea as much as a stupid idea: there's not advantage to putting your data drives ina different enclosure, is there? (Especially if you already owned two old small cases.) The thought occurred when you mentioned getting an expansion card to provide more SATA ports.

[JustAnEngineer]

CA$120 AMD Athlon II X4 620

Power consumption, and heat. I know it will give me more Folding points, but I simply don't want it there.

Points per watt from the wall socket will be better with a quad core than with a dual core or single core system that has the same overhead and peripherals but does one half or one fourth as much folding. Of course, I quit folding years ago because of the heat and power consumption.

A 785G board is not in the cards yet for my next build with the 7.1 LPCM issue.

Is this server also an HTPC or audio studio box? You didn't mention any of that earlier.

Any idea about the PSU and the non-existence of staggered spin-ups?

I don't believe that you'll have a problem. I agree with your plan to use one of your existing power supplies and pick up a nice quiet 80+% efficient unit for your other system.

Cost...costs...

If CA$190 for motherboard, quad-core processor, HSF, memory and graphics are going to break the budget for this build, I don't know where to go next. I suppose that you could use a milk crate and zip ties for the case. That would fit into your bookcase, have plenty of ventilation, and be cheap.

If you're concerned about cooling ability and noise, the Tri-cools are out. Even in my insulated P180, they were too loud on medium and moved too little air on low; they're replaced with Scythe S-Flex E's that are largely motherboard controlled, which move more air on medium while being almost as quiet as they were on low. Get D's, and it'll be silent.

I'll agree with this. I have the rear Tri-cool in my P182 and the one in front of the PSU on medium, with the top one on low. I've got a Scythe S-Flex (-D?) in the front.

[Flying Fox]

If you remember, could you measure the consumption on your new server before you add multiple HDDs? I'd like to know how much less it is less than the E6300 on the chart (or whatever cpu you get).

That's a standard thing I do whenever I get new hardware to play with. How else do I get more use out of my Kill-A-Watt?

Interesting case ideas, keep them flowing please.

This isn't an interesting idea as much as a stupid idea: there's not advantage to putting your data drives ina different enclosure, is there? (Especially if you already owned two old small cases.) The thought occurred when you mentioned getting an expansion card to provide more SATA ports.

We are talking about stuffing 6+ drives in a case, which usually means it will overwhelm the existing 3.5" bays. They are suggesting the 4-in-3 "enclosure" to use the 5.25" bays as well.

CA$120 AMD Athlon II X4 620

Power consumption, and heat. I know it will give me more Folding points, but I simply don't want it there.

Points per watt from the wall socket will be better with a quad core than with a dual core or single core system that has the same overhead and peripherals but does one half or one fourth as much folding. Of course, I quit folding years ago because of the heat and power consumption.

Simply put, a quad is out of the question in this build for both power consumption and incremental acquisition costs (compared to a dual). For this box a dual is about the right power costs that I am ok with in terms of the donation.

A 785G board is not in the cards yet for my next build with the 7.1 LPCM issue.

Is this server also an HTPC or audio studio box? You didn't mention any of that earlier.

I was just responding to the suggestion for a 785G board. It may not make it in this file server build, but it may on my next build. No idea whether it will be an HTPC or as my new main rig yet. It's simply too far away.

Any idea about the PSU and the non-existence of staggered spin-ups?

I don't believe that you'll have a problem. I agree with your plan to use one of your existing power supplies and pick up a nice quiet 80+% efficient unit for your other system.

Given that I am looking at the price/performance class of GPUs that the 4770/4850 carve out, projecting to at least 6 months out for SC2, I am looking at something like the refresh of the 5770/5850 (or whatever GT300-derived stuff). I am guessing a ~500W Corsair/Enermax/Antec with modular cabling would do?

Cost...costs...

If CA$190 for motherboard, quad-core processor, HSF, memory and graphics are going to break the budget for this build, I don't know where to go next. I suppose that you could use a milk crate and zip ties for the case. That would fit into your bookcase, have plenty of ventilation, and be cheap.

I guess I need some convincing with the Folding power of the Athlon II X2 compared to the E6300 and the platform performance/stability of the 7xx vs the G/P 4x/3x chipsets.

If you're concerned about cooling ability and noise, the Tri-cools are out. Even in my insulated P180, they were too loud on medium and moved too little air on low; they're replaced with Scythe S-Flex E's that are largely motherboard controlled, which move more air on medium while being almost as quiet as they were on low. Get D's, and it'll be silent.

I'll agree with this. I have the rear Tri-cool in my P182 and the one in front of the PSU on medium, with the top one on low. I've got a Scythe S-Flex (-D?) in the front.

I have a 92mm TriCool and medium is acceptable to me noise-wise, so I have a much higher tolerance. The TriCool will be my choice only if the Scythe's are out of stock, have been trying to use them after reading so many good reviews. Don't worry, I do read what you guys report.

[JustAnEngineer]

I am guessing a ~500W Corsair/Enermax/Antec with modular cabling would do?

500 watts should be sufficient. The OCZ ModXStream Pro PSUs are priced attractively.

700: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... Technology
600: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6817341017
I didn't spot the 500-watt version in stock north of the border.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6817341016

[Flying Fox]

I am guessing a ~500W Corsair/Enermax/Antec with modular cabling would do?

500 watts should be sufficient. The OCZ ModXStream Pro PSUs are priced attractively.

700: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... Technology
600: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6817341017
I didn't spot the 500-watt version in stock north of the border.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ... 6817341016

What's the quality of that line of OCZ these days? Compared to the Corsair, Antec, Enermax, and Seasonic? BTW, both my 2 usual local stores, Canada Computers and Infonec, seem to carry the OCZ so it is good if I want them. I really hate to pay shipping.

Competitively priced, definitely. But when the Corsair 520HX is under the psychological $100 mark, should I just get that? Still reading about the whining issues of the HX though...

[Flying Fox]

OK, it's time to buy... the drives at least. They are on sale at Canada Computers for the weekend.

The case: Antec 300 still in the lead?
PSU: Use my one of my old ones? Buy a new one for this build only? Should I get one with bottom-mounted fan or rear-mounted fan (considering it may be put near the bottom in the 300 case)?
Motherboard: Use the P5K-VM and live with "only" 4 ports but an x4 expansion? Or get a new board with 6 ports but only x1 expansion? Or someone can convince me that the X2 245/250 is going to outfold the E6300 while not sucking up as much power?

Itching to do the build now, at least I will have 2 drives to do some testing on AHCI vs non-AHCI...

Edit: typo

[wibeasley]

I have two Antec Three Hundreds- one PSU has a rear mounted fan (Antec Earthwatts) and the other a top/bottom fan (Seasonic M12). Neither fan spins up much -at least not a difference that's noticeable to me. Your exisitng Seasonic has the right connectors for the drives you plan to add? If so, that's still my vote.

Comparing the Athlon X2 250 and Pentium E6300 their folding performance and load power consumption look comparable. But I assume you've seen those charts recently.

Or get a new board with 4 ports

Do you mean 6 or 8 ports?

[Flying Fox]

Comparing the Athlon X2 250 and Pentium E6300 their folding performance and load power consumption look comparable. But I assume you've seen those charts recently.

Looked at them more than once.

Or get a new board with 4 ports

Do you mean 6 or 8 ports?

Yeah I meant 6.

[wibeasley]

Motherboard: Use the P5K-VM and live with "only" 4 ports but an x4 expansion? Or get a new board with 6 ports but only x1 expansion?

I vaguely remember there was something crippled with the G33 memory system -something like it didn't keep all the channels when all four DIMMs were filled. I could remembering that incorrectly.

If that's not true or doesn't present a problem, I vote using the existing board again and get the expansion slot when you need it later. During that time, something may have changed and you could be using a different box for your server or something. And it sounds like when you do expand, you'll get more than six drives, and need an expansion card regardless. Are the x4 and x1 cards you're considering comparable in price?

(Also if you don't use your existing board, you'll reopen the Pentium vs Athlon issue again.)

[Flying Fox]

Motherboard: Use the P5K-VM and live with "only" 4 ports but an x4 expansion? Or get a new board with 6 ports but only x1 expansion?

I vaguely remember there was something crippled with the G33 memory system -something like it didn't keep all the channels when all four DIMMs were filled. I could remembering that incorrectly.

If that's not true or doesn't present a problem, I vote using the existing board again and get the expansion slot when you need it later.

I don't recall killing dual channel with 4 DIMMs, just may be overclocking will be affected. Both are not issues as I'm going to put the 2x1GiB kit there and the system will be very lightly overclocked if any.

During that time, something may have changed and you could be using a different box for your server or something.

This is very true. May be I'll get an itch and upgrade the file server too. Too far away anyway.

And it sounds like when you do expand, you'll get more than six drives, and need an expansion card regardless. Are the x4 and x1 cards you're considering comparable in price?

Well, it depends. I am going to start off with 2 drives. I will probably add 1 more each time as I expand the storage. Some of the folders under WHS will be set as duplicated so it can get used up pretty fast. By the time I am at 4 drives and need to move up, things may be different then. Unfortunately I don't know what will happen exactly by then. As for the x4 slot expansion, I can get regular x1 card with 2 ports, or up to some decent RAID cards with 4 ports (in case I want one "drive" to be RAIDed or, just another 4-drive JBOD).

(Also if you don't use your existing board, you'll reopen the Pentium vs Athlon issue again.)

If I use my existing board for the server, I'll need a replacement for the E2160 that I am using anyway though. Things can get interesting here because I can very well sell the E2160 to do an X3+DDR2 (using my other kit of 2x2GiB). Of course the downside to all that is I am rebuilding 2 boxes at once, something of a hassle, but will keep up with my street cred I suppose.

[Gerbil Jedidiah]

I admit I'm too lazy to reread the thread to make sure I got all of your specifications, but how about a PhenomII 720 (95 watts) and a Gigabyte 785G mobo?

http://secure.newegg.com/Shopping/Shopp ... ChangeItem

Black edition, so easy overclocking, may even unlock a core. Realtec 889a sound... 6 SATA...

Sorry, I was also too lazy to look it up in Canada...

But think, the fastest integrated video, best onboard sound tech, 6 SATA ports, a black edition CPU you can run hard with 4 cores hitting 3.5GHZ, or pull it back and only run two cores at 2.8... Then you're matching the E6300's power (I'm assuming you can disable a core, I'm not sure).

You also get to use your old ram, and have a slot for a future discrete card if needed.

[JustAnEngineer]

How about a Phenom II X3 720 (95 watts) and a Gigabyte 785G mobo?

Flying Fox is going to have to choose, eventually.
CA$150 Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H + Athlon II X2 245
CA$207 Asus M4A785-M + Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition
CA$228 Gigabyte GA-MA785G-UD3H + Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition

[Flying Fox]

So looks like most of you like the idea of moving my current board to the server and build a new one for myself? Not just some Intel-chipset board to build around the new server with the shiny new E6300?

Black edition, so easy overclocking, may even unlock a core. Realtec 889a sound... 6 SATA...

But think, the fastest integrated video, best onboard sound tech, 6 SATA ports, a black edition CPU you can run hard with 4 cores hitting 3.5GHZ, or pull it back and only run two cores at 2.8... Then you're matching the E6300's power (I'm assuming you can disable a core, I'm not sure).

You also get to use your old ram, and have a slot for a future discrete card if needed.

You are talking about moving my current board for the server and then building what you are suggesting for my own rig, right?

I never count the potential to unlock the 4th core. Stability is a bit more important to me. Sound wise it may be "better" than Intel's 4-series, but it still only does 2-channel LPCM over HDMI, which is just a shame if I want this to be an HTPC eventually.

How about a Phenom II X3 720 (95 watts) and a Gigabyte 785G mobo?

Flying Fox is going to have to choose, eventually.
CA$150 Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H + Athlon II X2 245
CA$207 Asus M4A785-M + Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition
CA$228 Gigabyte GA-MA785G-UD3H + Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition

So JAE are you suggesting for the server or my own machine?

[JustAnEngineer]

I'm just encouraging you to spend money on new stuff. If you're going to upgrade the main machine, wouldn't you rather save up and make the leap to LGA1156 rather than Socket-AM3 or Socket-AM2+?

For your server, the Athlon II or Phenom II with 785G should do quite well.

[Airmantharp]

Flying Fox is going to have to choose, eventually.

I'm waiting until he does to post further .

I'm just encouraging you to spend money on new stuff. If you're going to upgrade the main machine, wouldn't you rather save up and make the leap to LGA1156 rather than Socket-AM3 or Socket-AM2+?

Unless there is some definite financial reason for you to not be able to do this, I couldn't make any other recommendation either. Realistically, even if you're worried about the onboard HDMI capabilities of 785G, you could always throw in some low-end 5000-series fan-less GPU to take care of those duties, which should be pretty cheap by the time you get around to it. No need to worry about easily fixable features that you're not going to use today .

[Gerbil Jedidiah]

Flying Fox is going to have to choose, eventually.

I'm waiting until he does to post further .

I'm just encouraging you to spend money on new stuff. If you're going to upgrade the main machine, wouldn't you rather save up and make the leap to LGA1156 rather than Socket-AM3 or Socket-AM2+?

Unless there is some definite financial reason for you to not be able to do this, I couldn't make any other recommendation either. Realistically, even if you're worried about the onboard HDMI capabilities of 785G, you could always throw in some low-end 5000-series fan-less GPU to take care of those duties, which should be pretty cheap by the time you get around to it. No need to worry about easily fixable features that you're not going to use today .

Anandtech makes it sound like the G45 isn't the solution either:

Despite supporting 8-channel LPCM, the G45 still lacks a truly protected audio path and thus will never be able to send an encoded Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD MA signal over HDMI. I suspect that its successor in 2009 will finally add this functionality.

[Flying Fox]

I'm just encouraging you to spend money on new stuff.

Believe me I am always tempted.

If you're going to upgrade the main machine, wouldn't you rather save up and make the leap to LGA1156 rather than Socket-AM3 or Socket-AM2+?

My next "power rig" would be a Nehalem architecture box pretty much. That's why there is a voice in my head telling me to just build this server and grab a cheap board for the remaining E2160 as a holdover until next year. A variation of that would be to get an X3 and just call it done. There are a few other possibilities down the road. Simply put, if the longer my "roadmap" covers, the more variations and choices I have to make, which I don't want because that will mean I can't decide anything.

For your server, the Athlon II or Phenom II with 785G should do quite well.

Actually I don't think anyone has comprehensively convinced me that the E6300 idea is bad. Looks like folding, power consumption, chipset stability/reliability, SATA performance, etc. are all in Intel's favour. The question for that becomes whether I should put a new board in there or shift my P5K-VM over for it.

Realistically, even if you're worried about the onboard HDMI capabilities of 785G, you could always throw in some low-end 5000-series fan-less GPU to take care of those duties, which should be pretty cheap by the time you get around to it. No need to worry about easily fixable features that you're not going to use today .

So true, I already have an HD4550 that can do that.

Anandtech makes it sound like the G45 isn't the solution either:

Despite supporting 8-channel LPCM, the G45 still lacks a truly protected audio path and thus will never be able to send an encoded Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD MA signal over HDMI. I suspect that its successor in 2009 will finally add this functionality.

I'm having major trouble staying awake enough to read the AT article (believe me the browser tab was up for a few days but I just couldn't get around to reading it) properly. I don't need TrueHD/DTS-HD over HDMI even for an HTPC, the PS3 will be the Blu-ray player. I am now starting to encounter 5.1 AC-3/LPCM media so 2 channel LPCM over HDMI from the 78xG chipset does not sound like very good news. Of course, as above suggested the HD 4550 can fix that easy. In that case why not just stick with the E2160 and get something as cheap as those G41's?

@Airmantharp: any thoughts on rear-mounted vs bottom-mounted PSU fan? Looks like there is no other good alternative for the Antec 300 so the PSU will be mounted near the bottom of the case.

I know, I fickle a lot.

[Airmantharp]

@Airmantharp: any thoughts on rear-mounted vs bottom-mounted PSU fan? Looks like there is no other good alternative for the Antec 300 so the PSU will be mounted near the bottom of the case.

Well, given that heat rises, and the PSU will be mounted 'upside down' at the bottom of the case, I don't think it matters. Unlike my P180, the 300 is open in the bottom, so the PSU only has to exhaust it's own heat. Beyond that, as we're all focussed on silence, a quiet unit regardless of where they put the fan is a must; but generally bigger fans are better of course, which would lean me towards recommending a 'bottom' mounted fan.

I know, I fickle a lot.

Think we all do too some extent, otherwise we wouldn't post here about our own builds . I'll reiterate that it's nice to see one of the main forum contributers and moderators participating in a discussion about their own equipment!