sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:49 am

JdL wrote:One thing I might add to this thread is that BF2 / BF3 is very multi-threaded. You are likely to benefit from a lower clock + more threads than you would from a higher clock + fewer threads.

The Intel i5 has 4 cores / 4 threads, whereas the i7 has 4 cores / 8 threads.


I'd wonder about this myself, a little, but I'm relying on my previous experience with hyperthreading- and basic understanding of how it works. Remember that Intel's P6 architecture (dating back to the Pentium Pro; yeah we're still using it!) doesn't have multiple FPU units per core, like AMD's K8. Rather, it relies on it's SSE2 capability (I know it's SSE4 or 4.1 or something, but those aren't the instructions being used here) in order to supercharge float operations. This works because Netburst (the Pentium4 family) had even crappier raw FPU performance, and for five or six years there everyone had to learn to code for SSE2, or risk their stuff basically not working on Intel.

So here's the thing. Whether or not hyperthreading provides a performance boost depends on the type of workload an application presents to the CPU. In the case of Battlefield games, particularly Bad Company 2 in a multiplayer environment, the CPU is saturated with float- most likely SSE2 type stuff related to the massive amount of coordination as well as the tremendous amount of physics work that needs to be done. Intel CPUs cannot handle more than one SSE2 thread per core. So, hyperthreading is only going to help if some integer heavy workload is also running on these cores. While there most certainly is some, like OS, AV/Firewall, and networking overhead to name a few, the real percentage that this presents is very low; I'd hazard less than 1% of a fast CPU like Intel's new quad cores.

The detriment of hyperthreading here is that with eight assignable cores, you are now trying to run eight SSE operations on four SSE units. Because there is overhead and L1 and L2 cache requirements for those extra threads, this can actually reduce performance!

Because hyperthreading isn't terribly suited for games, and because the 2600k is ~$100 more, it's very hard to recommend over the 2500k, given that they'll also both overclock to ~4.5GHz+ on air out of the box. Whatever small performance increase hyperthreading might provide simply isn't worth $100.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:57 am

cjcerny wrote:If this is truly a "Battlefield 3 build", you need to consider the fact that Nvidia cards pretty much wipe the floor with ATI cards in Bad Company 2. All you have to do is dig up a few reviews of the 570 and 580 that used BC2 and 6950 and 6970 numbers to see that the current Frostbite engine is very Nvidia friendly. That doesn't mean that Frostbite 2 will also be Nvidia friendly, but it would be a mistake to build a rig for Battlefield 3 that doesn't at least give some consideration to that fact.


This is true, and something I considered personally when I switched my plans from GTX570 SLi (I already had one) to HD6950 2GB Crossfire.

Battlefield 3 is going to be one of the more strenuous games to come out this year, but, it's not the only game! Note that across the board, AMD HD6590's provide such great performance compared to the GTX570, that it's simply not worth the extra cost today. Also, note that in many situations, HD6950 Crossfire exceeds GTX570 SLi.

I had my reasons for purchasing my GTX570; and the particular card I owned was one of the best. Still, for the money, AMD is where it's at.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 pm

cjcerny wrote:If this is truly a "Battlefield 3 build", you need to consider the fact that Nvidia cards pretty much wipe the floor with ATI cards in Bad Company 2. All you have to do is dig up a few reviews of the 570 and 580 that used BC2 and 6950 and 6970 numbers to see that the current Frostbite engine is very Nvidia friendly. That doesn't mean that Frostbite 2 will also be Nvidia friendly, but it would be a mistake to build a rig for Battlefield 3 that doesn't at least give some consideration to that fact.
The difference is less than 10% at 2560x1600 with aa/af, but also at a significant price difference(580 is almost 30% more expensive aorund here), so unless you find a serious deal, it might not be worth it. The 6970 and 570 on the other hand are similar in price, and quite similar in performance, with a slight win for the 6970... although this is from the TR-reviews when the 6970/50 launched, so there's been some changes in performance due to drivers, and those I havent accounted for. But that should swing both ways.

Considering the new Frostbyte is a significant rewrite, all of the above might just go out the window. But one thing that was noticed about BC2 was that it wasnt only GPU, heavy, it also required a really heavy lifting by the CPU.

If I built a rig for BF3, I would probably wait for the next interation of processor from Intel and the next GPU release instead of bying now. On the other hand, I got myself a new rig this past january and are on a 2600k @ 4.2GHz and a 6970, which should do quite well. Perhaps I'll upgrade the graphics and put the 6970 in the living room system for having it on the projector, perhaps I'll upgrade to Crossfire. But crossfire as well as SLI is still abit finicky in some games.
Last edited by Aphasia on Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:05 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
JdL wrote:One thing I might add to this thread is that BF2 / BF3 is very multi-threaded. You are likely to benefit from a lower clock + more threads than you would from a higher clock + fewer threads.

The Intel i5 has 4 cores / 4 threads, whereas the i7 has 4 cores / 8 threads.


I'd wonder about this myself, a little... Whatever small performance increase hyperthreading might provide simply isn't worth $100.


I don't WONDER. I KNOW, and am trying to tell you. Perhaps I should have put it this way first: I had a system with 4GB RAM, a Core 2 Duo overclocked to 4 GHz, and a Radeon 6850. My BF:BC2 FPS were barely playable at 24-35, and CPU utilization was always at 100% on both cores.

I upgraded the CPU to a Core 2 Quad, and dropped the clock rate to 2.4 GHz. Now CPU utilization is in the area of 50-70% per core, and FPS is a liquid-smooth 50-80 FPS.

Looking at BF3 trailers, it seems like BF3 will be even more CPU-intense. Just trying to help.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:19 pm

But you are talking about a difference in cores, Airmantharp is talking about a difference in amount of threads per core, aka hyperthreading.

In your case you doubled the available horsepower with a slightly lower speed.
In Airmantharps example you have the same hardware, but with Hyperthreading enabled the OS sees it as 8 cores and can have double the amount of threads in flight. And if the hardware doesnt have more execution units, the performance increase is up to how well the workload is optimized since the extra threads can only execute as long as the hardware is not being used for the other threads fully.

With i5 2500k and 2600k(HT turned off) the perfomrance should be similar with the same clock. Both have 4 cores and have 4 threads in flight.
In BC2 you probably wouldnt say much performance increase by setting hyperthreading to on, which makes BC2 able to have 8 threads in flight. But if there arent execution units to match those thread and the 4st four thread are properly optimized, they would keep the execution units busy enough to make the difference negliable.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:38 pm

More real cores, yes! More virtual cores? Maybe. So, what he said ^.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:02 pm

I owned one ASROCK board back in the era where dual-core socket 939 was on the horizon but had not yet arrived, and the board promised dual-core compatibility. I had an Athlon 64 3200+ in that box and went to drop in a 3800+ dual-core and the box wouldn't POST with the at-the-time-latest BIOS. I'm hopeful that things are better now, but at the time I was peeved. That's my own reasoning for turning up my nose, but it may very well be irrational.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:15 pm

the only thing wrong with my p67 extreme4 is that the mouse in the UEFI is vertically inverted. as in, up is down. TBH, the UEFI bios is pretty much useless on this board, since it is exactly like the older BIOS but with a graphical makeover.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:13 pm

moriz wrote:the only thing wrong with my p67 extreme4 is that the mouse in the UEFI is vertically inverted. as in, up is down. TBH, the UEFI bios is pretty much useless on this board, since it is exactly like the older BIOS but with a graphical makeover.


You broke it? Haven't had that issue on either of my boards. Also, I don't see how the UEFI is useless- it's not as seamless as Windows, but it doesn't need to be. It's supposed to be exactly like the older BIOS but with a graphical makeover! I mean, you could lay it out differently, but the settings still have to be there, so what's the point?
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:58 pm

Aphasia wrote:
cjcerny wrote:If this is truly a "Battlefield 3 build", you need to consider the fact that Nvidia cards pretty much wipe the floor with ATI cards in Bad Company 2. All you have to do is dig up a few reviews of the 570 and 580 that used BC2 and 6950 and 6970 numbers to see that the current Frostbite engine is very Nvidia friendly. That doesn't mean that Frostbite 2 will also be Nvidia friendly, but it would be a mistake to build a rig for Battlefield 3 that doesn't at least give some consideration to that fact.
The difference is less than 10% at 2560x1600 with aa/af, but also at a significant price difference(580 is almost 30% more expensive aorund here), so unless you find a serious deal, it might not be worth it. The 6970 and 570 on the other hand are similar in price, and quite similar in performance, with a slight win for the 6970... although this is from the TR-reviews when the 6970/50 launched, so there's been some changes in performance due to drivers, and those I havent accounted for. But that should swing both ways.

Considering the new Frostbyte is a significant rewrite, all of the above might just go out the window. But one thing that was noticed about BC2 was that it wasnt only GPU, heavy, it also required a really heavy lifting by the CPU.

If I built a rig for BF3, I would probably wait for the next interation of processor from Intel and the next GPU release instead of bying now. On the other hand, I got myself a new rig this past january and are on a 2600k @ 4.2GHz and a 6970, which should do quite well. Perhaps I'll upgrade the graphics and put the 6970 in the living room system for having it on the projector, perhaps I'll upgrade to Crossfire. But crossfire as well as SLI is still abit finicky in some games.


If I had the option of waiting until october when BF3 is coming out, I would. But I'm selling my current PC to a friend in a month (he's going off to college), and need a new one pronto. I'm gonna wait a week until July 4th weekend here in the US, there are usually great online deals around then. I will take a look today for a different PSU (maybe use the seasonic recommendation), and see if the corsair case has grown on me (I think it has since last night lol)
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:14 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
moriz wrote:the only thing wrong with my p67 extreme4 is that the mouse in the UEFI is vertically inverted. as in, up is down. TBH, the UEFI bios is pretty much useless on this board, since it is exactly like the older BIOS but with a graphical makeover.


You broke it? Haven't had that issue on either of my boards. Also, I don't see how the UEFI is useless- it's not as seamless as Windows, but it doesn't need to be. It's supposed to be exactly like the older BIOS but with a graphical makeover! I mean, you could lay it out differently, but the settings still have to be there, so what's the point?


nope, didn't break anything, since the mouse behaves properly in windows. i merely have BIOS version 1.60. you might have had one that's older, or newer. i know version 1.70 fixes the issue.

also, if you want to see what UEFI should look like, go look at the Asus UEFI. graphs instead of numbers, charts instead of dropdown lists. while there's nothing particularly wrong with Asrock's UEFI BIOS and is fully usable, it barely takes advantage of UEFI's greater capability. i personally don't care too much about it, but it is still disappointing to see.

oh yeah, Asrock still has the best engrish in the motherboard market. example: "Xfast USB: faster than your imagination!!!!!"
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:37 pm

Sputnik7 wrote:If I had the option of waiting until october when BF3 is coming out, I would. But I'm selling my current PC to a friend in a month (he's going off to college), and need a new one pronto. I'm gonna wait a week until July 4th weekend here in the US, there are usually great online deals around then. I will take a look today for a different PSU (maybe use the seasonic recommendation), and see if the corsair case has grown on me (I think it has since last night lol)
In that case, either get the best you can get now and hope it'll be enough... at 1920x1200, it should probably be so, although you might have to ditch the aa. Or you can get a cheap card now with the intent to upgrade the gpu later. Or build one that you will go for crossfire/sli if a single card aint enough.

As for me. I will see how the 6970 does before I decide to go crossfire or upgrade. BC2 in 2560x1600 is more then smooth enough with everything at full. If its like back when Crysis was released, there really wasnt anything out that could run it properly on a single card, in which case one might get another card next year or so. It's not like bf3 will gonna be short lived :wink:
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:07 pm

I'm pretty sure they confirmed the fault line demo was running on "just" a single GTX 580 and it looked like it had 60 fps. With optimization still due for launch and what not, it seems like it will be very playable if you have a current high end system. For comparison, Crysis on Very High at 1080P only ran at around 20 fps on the 8800 Ultra around release. I doubt this is another Crysis, certainly it's going to be demanding more than pretty much any game out there, but not by Crysis levels.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:37 pm

HurgyMcGurgyGurg wrote:I'm pretty sure they confirmed the fault line demo was running on "just" a single GTX 580 and it looked like it had 60 fps. With optimization still due for launch and what not, it seems like it will be very playable if you have a current high end system. For comparison, Crysis on Very High at 1080P only ran at around 20 fps on the 8800 Ultra around release. I doubt this is another Crysis, certainly it's going to be demanding more than pretty much any game out there, but not by Crysis levels.


Yeah I can pretty well bank on the fact that EA is going to optimize SOMETHING. Unlike the first Crysis. I think the 6950 is going to be great for 1920x1200. And, I can live without AA for bf3, i'm sure it will look gorgeous enough as it is :P
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:45 pm

Aliasing is annoying, but it's the first setting I cut/last setting I turn up, as it neither increases detail nor effective resolution. Still, I am running two HD6950's at 2560x1600 so I can crank it in at least a few games :).
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:04 pm

What do you guys think about this for a case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112239
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:46 pm

Sputnik7 wrote:
HurgyMcGurgyGurg wrote:I'm pretty sure they confirmed the fault line demo was running on "just" a single GTX 580 and it looked like it had 60 fps. With optimization still due for launch and what not, it seems like it will be very playable if you have a current high end system. For comparison, Crysis on Very High at 1080P only ran at around 20 fps on the 8800 Ultra around release. I doubt this is another Crysis, certainly it's going to be demanding more than pretty much any game out there, but not by Crysis levels.


Yeah I can pretty well bank on the fact that EA is going to optimize SOMETHING. Unlike the first Crysis. I think the 6950 is going to be great for 1920x1200. And, I can live without AA for bf3, i'm sure it will look gorgeous enough as it is :P

UGH...no AA? :-?
Surely you jest sir?
BF2 looks nasty without it and I imagine it will be similar with BF3.
Your prospective build looks very nice however,I would wait till the last possible minute before choosing the all-important graphics card.
It is possible AMD will launch their new 7000 series cards at very close to the November(?) launch of BF3 and may have a very nice part you can purchase that is bound to have superior performance to today's current lineup from either AMD or Nvidia.
:P
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:35 am

Well, AA or no AA depends on the res and memory requirements. I rather run in native resolution with a good FPS than a lower scaled res with AA with the same FPS unless its scaled 1:2, etc. But 1280x800 is too low a res for me anyway so... At 2560x1600, each level of AA usually adds significant impact on memory and frame rates. Not to mention I hate any fuzziness on lines. If the AA is done properly, you can enjoy it, but at times it fuzzes stuff that should be fuzzed.

On the other hand, If you have the horsepower, like for older games, go for it. Just push the card as high as you can until the FPS starts to drop.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:38 am

4X AA looks good for most games. I try to keep at least 2X AA to minimize edge jaggies.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:25 pm

Sputnik7 wrote:What do you guys think about this for a case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112239


It's not bad looking, if you don't mind the glowy fans (not a fan :)).

Particularly, it's exhaust-centric. This is mostly fine if you're going to be using a tower cooler like the excellent Xigmatek 1283 suggested above, and only one GPU, and if you were to use something like a Corsair H60 you could make it a rear intake, with those two 140mm fans up top immediately exhausting the hot air.

But an important build question still remains- do you intend to Crossfire in the future or not? If not, this case is fine- and it seems like you like windows and glowy things (important to know...).
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:07 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Sputnik7 wrote:What do you guys think about this for a case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112239


It's not bad looking, if you don't mind the glowy fans (not a fan :)).

Particularly, it's exhaust-centric. This is mostly fine if you're going to be using a tower cooler like the excellent Xigmatek 1283 suggested above, and only one GPU, and if you were to use something like a Corsair H60 you could make it a rear intake, with those two 140mm fans up top immediately exhausting the hot air.

But an important build question still remains- do you intend to Crossfire in the future or not? If not, this case is fine- and it seems like you like windows and glowy things (important to know...).


I have to say, I am partial to the windows and glowy gamer-case things....they are flashy and fun. I know techspot just did a sub 200 gaming case roundup, and I need to read that.

Crossfire-wise, I don't plan on changing monitors anytime soon, so I don't think I will be crossfire-ing.

So with that said, any other recommendations for flashy, cool (temperature and looks wise) cases?
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:28 pm

The Logisys CS888CL has the largest window that I've seen.

The XClio 777Color's eight 256-color LED 180mm fans look like something right out of a low-budget Sci-Fi movie. This large case occupies 93 liters of space. That's twice as large as the Fractal Design Define R3.

The XClio A380Color costs only about half as much and fills only 2/3 the space but it still features a pair of 256-color LED 250mm fans and another 120mm on the back.

Is that enough bling?

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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:56 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:The Logisys CS888CL has the largest window that I've seen.

The XClio 777Color's eight 256-color LED 180mm fans look like something right out of a low-budget Sci-Fi movie. This large case occupies 93 liters of space.

The XClio A380Color costs only about half as much and fills only 2/3 the space but it still features a pair of 256-color LED 250mm fans and another 120mm on the back.

Is that enough bling?

I gave away my cold cathode fluorescent lighting kits several years ago.



Haha that is too much bling for me. I'm thinking something more along the lines of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112320
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:07 pm

Airmantharp wrote:So here's the thing. Whether or not hyperthreading provides a performance boost depends on the type of workload an application presents to the CPU. In the case of Battlefield games, particularly Bad Company 2 in a multiplayer environment, the CPU is saturated with float- most likely SSE2 type stuff related to the massive amount of coordination as well as the tremendous amount of physics work that needs to be done. Intel CPUs cannot handle more than one SSE2 thread per core. So, hyperthreading is only going to help if some integer heavy workload is also running on these cores. While there most certainly is some, like OS, AV/Firewall, and networking overhead to name a few, the real percentage that this presents is very low; I'd hazard less than 1% of a fast CPU like Intel's new quad cores.

The detriment of hyperthreading here is that with eight assignable cores, you are now trying to run eight SSE operations on four SSE units. Because there is overhead and L1 and L2 cache requirements for those extra threads, this can actually reduce performance!


a number of things; AI is always integer based, and intel cpu's have 3 alu's per core, all three can do regular integer calculations but only one of them can do boolean comparisons.

the sse family is a 128 bit vector instruction set, meaning that, with properly written code, you can perform 16 eight bit ints, 8 sixteen bit ints, 4 thirty two bit ints, 2 sixty four bit ints or one 128 bit int, similarly it can do four 32 bit floats, two 64 bit floats or one 128 bit float, plus there are instructions for some other operations.

all x86 instructions are out-of-order, meaning they can be issued, executed and retired as the data becomes available.

honestly, i don't think you will find too many, if any, games that won't benefit from a cpu that can handle more threads simultaneously.
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:14 pm

Sputnik7 wrote:Haha that is too much bling for me. I'm thinking something more along the lines of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112320
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119197


JAE did go out of his way on those cases, lol.

I think either case you picked will work, though I'm concerned that neither appear to come with filters (gets in the way of all the light!). They both have more than enough airflow for a tower cooled i7 and a single GPU. And the Lancool one seems to have rave reviews for construction, which is a good sign.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
Airmantharp
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:16 pm

I believe that the aeronautical theme of the A380Color has a certain aesthetic going for it. XClio has carried that theme over to their product naming, too. I like the customization that you can choose any of 256 colors to match your decor or mood. You can also let the LED controller slowly cycle through the whole rainbow or you can switch off the LEDs entirely.

The current crop of XClio cases look to be significantly improved from the very cheap ones that I used a decade ago, but if you look at one of their current cheap cases like the Color I, you can see that restrictive stamped metal fan grills are still a problem at the front fan location. The new Nighthawk Color appears to have well-designed fan grills and integrated translucent filters.


The blue LED lighting in the Antec Three Hundred Illusion is not too garish. When it was on sale for $55, it was a real bargain. However, those are three-speed Antec Tri-Cool fans. They're not as quiet as the Scythe S-Flex and Kama fans that I prefer these days.
i7-4770K, H70, Gryphon Z87, 16 GiB, R9-290, SSD, 2 HD, Blu-ray, SB ZX, TJ08-E, SS-660XP², 3007WFP+2001FP, RK-9000BR, MX518
JustAnEngineer
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:19 pm

deadrats wrote:honestly, i don't think you will find too many, if any, games that won't benefit from a cpu that can handle more threads simultaneously.


Think you missed most of it. In the end (and benchmarks have shown, giyf), games are largely SSE2+ based- this is why hyperthreading doesn't help, at least not near as much as it costs, and at 4.5GHz+, why the recommendation consistently goes to the 2500k over the 2600k.

Yes, I know that AI is branching boolean. Woohoo. Have you seen the AI on games lately? And do you realize just how very little of a game's processor time is dedicated to AI? It's all world setup and physics, dude. Everything else is single digits or fractions thereof.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
Airmantharp
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:21 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:The new Nighthawk Color appears to have well-designed fan grills and integrated translucent filters.


This one looks pretty good IMO, especially for the price, good find!
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
Airmantharp
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:45 am

For case fans, can you buy filters for them? Or is that something that comes with the case itself?

I kind of like the Lian Li case I linked above, but it will be on the floor, and will pick up a lot of dust.

If I choose that case as opposed to one with a filter, it just means i have to clean the inside out a little more frequently right?
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Sputnik7
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Re: sandy bridge/battlefield 3 build

Postposted on Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:25 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Think you missed most of it. In the end (and benchmarks have shown, giyf), games are largely SSE2+ based- this is why hyperthreading doesn't help, at least not near as much as it costs, and at 4.5GHz+, why the recommendation consistently goes to the 2500k over the 2600k.

Yes, I know that AI is branching boolean. Woohoo. Have you seen the AI on games lately? And do you realize just how very little of a game's processor time is dedicated to AI? It's all world setup and physics, dude. Everything else is single digits or fractions thereof.


actually i have coded my own first person shooter games using dark basic as well as the rest of my background in comp sci, you might be surprised how much i know about coding games.

non-AVX SIMD are 128 bit instructions that use a single instruction to work on multiple pieces of data; in regard to float operations we are talking about 32 bit or 64 bit floats, though for scientific purposes you can extend that to 80bit.

for physics collisions in games, you don't need that much realism and collisions (the main portion of physics in a game) can be reasonably simulated using 8 bit ints, much faster than 32 bit floats and you can pack a bunch of them per cycle with proper threading or if you know what you're doing you can use MMX which would be faster than SSE2 floats (lower precision calculations are always performed faster).

with regard to game AI, the artificial intelligence i have seen is actually pretty impressive; i remember playing assassin's creed on the PS3 and marveling that NPC's (non player characters) would react to you if you performed an act of violence, for instance if you walked around stumbling into people the crowd would react to you, if you killed someone and bystanders saw you they would get a look of horror and fear in their face and recoil in fear, some would run and beg not to be killed, if no one saw you kill but they stumbled upon the body they would crowd around and talk about the murder, it's actually quite a think to see.

Mafia 2 is similar, if a gun fight breaks out NPC's run and duck for cover, if you're nearby they will beg you not to kill them, if you're shooting at them and they are running for cover sometimes they stumble and fall, the cops react fairly intelligently, it's actually pretty impressive, especially if you've actually tried to code your own game and know how hard it can be getting the game engine to react like that.

as for whether more threads are better for a game, i'm looking for the benchmarks where bit-tech normalized an i870 and a 2500 to 4 ghz and found that the 870 was faster overall, but look at these crysis 2 benchmarks:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2 ... n-review/6

notice that an i7 950 (4 core 8 thread) clocked to 4.3 ghz is statistically even with an i5 2500k clocked at 4.9 ghz; sandy bridge's performance advantage is in it's ability to turbo up really fast and really high, but if normalized to similar clock speeds, the hyper threaded cpu's are a better buy and in fact i would expect most people to have a smoother computing experience with a higher thread processor rather than a high clocked cpu.

having said that, cpu's are so fast that with enough ram and a decent video car most people probably wouldn't know the difference.
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