The Hot Rod/Sweeter Spot Build

[Conza88]

Hey guys n' gals ,
This is my first real time jumping in and educating myself about hardware in an attempt to do my first build, or at least organise most of it.

I have checked out TechReport's latest Summer 2011 System Guide. And Ars Techia's March 2011System Build Guide for ideas. Then tried to see if there are any new 'groundbreaking' stuff coming out soon that would be worth waiting for. Got a month or two, anything more might be pushing it a bit. Any news? Anyway to the build..

Intended use: I am big on multi-tasking and pretty multimedia heavy. Mostly internet browsing, email, word processing, music & audio [large growing collection], then video, audio & photo editing, HD.

I do some mixing on audio, watch movies & have a collection stored on my ex. 2TB WD HDD. Sometimes burn dvd's to watch on tv, but it's about 6 meters from the comp to the tv/home audio system in the lounge room, so I currently run a big cord for audio to play. Wondering if I could do the same with video and watch movies from my collection, through the comp on the tv? Or would there be a better work around? Anyway, not that important and probs a side issue here. Gaming wise, I use to play alot of fps etc. But since the computer slowly couldn't handle the new games that phased out and I moved on. But would like the new one to be able to play the current crop easily and have longevity. But still more media focused than gaming.

Budget: Around $1,500 Aus. Goal: comp that lasts, with upgrades possible. "Future-proof" as much as possible. Leaning more towards something that is stable long term.

Atm the path is to determine the best stuff, then get computer alliance who has most of the parts to make it (if you click their systems you can see the build/costs). Alternatively, I have been recommended MSY visit their local store and buy the products cheap - Parts Prices, then they can make it for roughly $40-60. Or make it myself I spouse.

Location: Australia.

Ok, so here is what I have so far.

Components:

Processor: Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz - ($289)
Motherboard: Asus P8Z68-V PRO (do I need pro ($249), or should I go LE ($169) Cons?)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 ($89) (what's the difference between the ram kits etc? *I'm not sure if computer alliance this on offer, but there is a G.Skill?)
Storage: 120GB OCZ Vertex 3 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD) ($295)
Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB ($59 reliable?)
Backup: 2TB WD external usb 2.0 (already have)
Graphics: XFX Radeon HD 6950 1GB ($225) or Radeon HD 6950 2GB? ($289)
Power supply: Corsair TX650W $119(too low?)
Sound card: Asus Xonar DX, or Asus Xonar DG? Or the integrated one? (Computer alliance has neither :s but has Creative Audigy Value Sound Card ($39)
Case: Corsair Graphite Series 600T Midcase Tower (No PS) ($229) (was looking at Corsair Obsidian 650D? but Computer Alliance doesn't seem to have it. Any better alternatives? Will these fit, be acceptable?)

Monitor: 23" Asus VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers ($169), or Dell UltraSharp U2211H - 21.5".($177) (Looking for something with inbuilt webcam? mic? Needs to be 1920x1080HD)
DVD burner: LiteOn 24x DVD Writer SATA Black ($39)(Do blueray burners also do cd, dvd etc?)
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ($109)

Total Price: roughly $1,800

Noob here essentially, so feel free to point out stuff you might not otherwise do. I don't know much about overclocking etc. I think I'd tend to stick to all the factory default stuff as opposed to screw things up, or is it worthwhile learning and tweaking? Do you think I need a tv tuner? Or an integrated gigabit network connection? More cooling needed? Anything I am forgetting. Best place to save money on things that might not be necessary for me? More bang for my buck - get more ram?

Many thanks,
Any responses appreciated.
Conz.

[riviera74]

Hey guys n' gals ,

Budget: Around $1,500 Aus. Goal: comp that lasts, with upgrades possible. "Future-proof" as much as possible. Leaning more towards something that is stable long term.

Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Atm the path is to determine the best stuff, then get computer alliance who has most of the parts to make it (if you click their systems you can see the build/costs). Alternatively, I have been recommended [urlhttp://msy.com.au/]MSY[/url] visit their local store and buy the products cheap - Parts Prices, then they can make it for roughly $40-60. Or make it myself I spouse.

Ok, so here is what I have so far.

Components:
Processor: Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz - ($289)
Motherboard: Asus P8Z68-V PRO (do I need pro ($249), or should I go LE ($169) Cons?)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 ($89) (what's the difference between the ram kits etc? *I'm not sure if computer alliance this on offer, but there is a G.Skill?)
Storage: 120GB OCZ Vertex 3 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Drive (SSD) ($295)
Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB ($59 reliable?)
Backup: 2TB WD external usb 2.0 (already have)
Graphics: XFX Radeon HD 6950 1GB ($225) or Radeon HD 6950 2GB? ($289)
Power supply: Corsair TX650W $119(too low?)
Sound card: Asus Xonar DX, or Asus Xonar DG? Or the integrated one? (Computer alliance has neither :s but has Creative Audigy Value Sound Card ($39)
Case: Corsair Graphite Series 600T Midcase Tower (No PS) ($229) (was looking at Corsair Obsidian 650D? but Computer Alliance doesn't seem to have it. Any better alternatives? Will these fit, be acceptable?)

Monitor: 23" Asus VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers ($169), or Dell UltraSharp U2211H - 21.5".($177) (Looking for something with inbuilt webcam? mic? Needs to be 1920x1080HD)
DVD burner: LiteOn 24x DVD Writer SATA Black ($39)(Do blueray burners also do cd, dvd etc?)
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit ($109)

Total Price: roughly $1,800

Noob here essentially, so feel free to point out stuff you might not otherwise do. I don't know much about overclocking etc. I think I'd tend to stick to all the factory default stuff as opposed to screw things up, or is it worthwhile learning and tweaking? Do you think I need a tv tuner? Or an integrated gigabit network connection? More cooling needed? Anything I am forgetting. Best place to save money on things that might not be necessary for me? More bang for my buck - get more ram?

Many thanks,
Any responses appreciated.
Conz.

First of all, welcome to the forums!

For the Motherboard, go with the Asus P8Z68 LE and save a few dollars there. Also, I would recommend that you go with the Xonar DG since there is little or no sound difference between that card and higher-end cards generally. Also, you do probably do not need a Radeon 6950 card; instead go for a 6850 from XFX.

[Conza88]

First of all, welcome to the forums!

For the Motherboard, go with the Asus P8Z68 LE and save a few dollars there. Also, I would recommend that you go with the Xonar DG since there is little or no sound difference between that card and higher-end cards generally. Also, you do probably do not need a Radeon 6950 card; instead go for a 6850 from XFX.

Thanks . Will definitely go with the Xonas DG if I do, but apparently Computer Alliance doesn't have it - so I'll have to try find it or a substitute.

It has also been suggested by a friend I go with the AMD AM3 Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2Ghz 6 CORE CPU - ($189) and ASUS AM3 CROSSHAIR-V-FORMULA Motherboard ($299) instead...? To help 'future proof'. Thoughts?

Also graphics card wise - wondering what exactly the difference between these are:

ATI 6850 1GB MSI PCIe Video Card
AMD ATI Radeon HD6850 Chipset, Gddr5 Memory, 860MHz Core, 4400MHz Memory Clock, 2 (Single-Link DVI-D x1, Dual-Link DVI-I x1), 2 x VGA by Adaptor, 1 x HDMI, 1 x Display Port, MSI Part Number R6850CYCLONE.

ATI 6850 1GB ASUS PCIe Video Card
ATI 6850 GPU, 1GB GDDR5, PCIe x16, D-Sub, DVI-I, DVI-D, HDMI, DisplayPort, PN EAH6850-DC-1GD5-V2

Also, I think the current case might be a bit much. Any suggestions for other cases? Does it need to be Full? Or is Mid acceptable?

[saeed.ua]

hi,
if you go with amd route.then i suggest you wait till late September and see some amd new processor{amd 8 core buldozer}.and you don't have to buy so expensive asus motherboar.rather buy a asus 990x mobo at 200$ or less.
if you go intel route then you grab i5 2500k and save some bucks which you can use for 16 gb ram.
there some good cases with harddrive docking station-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133182
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133191
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133188

[riviera74]

Thanks . Will definitely go with the Xonas DG if I do, but apparently Computer Alliance doesn't have it - so I'll have to try find it or a substitute.

It has also been suggested by a friend I go with the AMD AM3 Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2Ghz 6 CORE CPU - ($189) and ASUS AM3 CROSSHAIR-V-FORMULA Motherboard ($299) instead...? To help 'future proof'. Thoughts?

Also, I think the current case might be a bit much. Any suggestions for other cases? Does it need to be Full? Or is Mid acceptable?

You can go the Midsize ATX route with no problem. Just avoid the really cheap cases to save yourself problems as time goes on. Normally I would recommend AMD, but Sandy Bridge has made them look worse than they really are, especially when it comes to price vs. performance at the moment (the new AMD FX CPUs need to arrive now, not September!). If you cannot get a Xonar DG, a simple and inexpensive Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live card should suffice, unless you plan to record audio from analog. If recording from analog, go for the Xonar DX.

One more thing: get a second WD internal 2TB Caviar Green. You might need it and internal drives have a longer warranty than external ones.

[mboza]

I am big on multi-tasking and pretty multimedia heavy. Mostly internet browsing, email, word processing, music & audio [large growing collection], then video, audio & photo editing, HD.

The first half of this list shouldn't tax a modern desktop. So the question is how much money you want to spend for the video and photo editing speed.

it's about 6 meters from the comp to the tv/home audio system in the lounge room, so I currently run a big cord for audio to play. Wondering if I could do the same with video and watch movies from my collection, through the comp on the tv?

Does the TV have HDMI in? If so, you just need a suitably long HDMI cable, which you should find somewhere online dirt cheap. All new cards should have at least variants supporting HDMI, possibly though a display port adaptor. Otherwise a long VGA cable and whatever you are currently using to handle the audio signal? Or do you need component/composite output for an old TV.

Audio-wise, are you currently plugging the PC into a receiver, or just the AUX phono inputs on a hifi? If the target has digital inputs (like HDMI or S/PDIF ) then a sound card does nothing, unless you need it for recording inputs. If you are doing serious recording work, you might want a USB soundcard anyway. Easy enough to get the PC now, and buy and install the Xonar yourself if the onboard isn't good enough.


Processor - unless you do a lot of video editing/encoding and being 10% faster is useful, drop down to the i5-2500K - the rest of the time you wont see a difference between this and the 2600K.

MB - unless the Pro has a feature you want, just go with the LE. Have you considered mATX boards and cases?

Memory - you will barely see any difference between ram speeds, the linked G Skill set looks fine.

GPU - I would take the 1GB card, and be prepared to use the price difference to upgrade it a little earlier.
Between the MSI and the ASUS, the MSI looks to be clocked nearly 10% higher, (so will run slightly faster) but only has a 1 year warranty. I would take the MSI card, and if it does happen to die in that second year, I would just buy the latest hotness. Others will prefer the safer option of the longer warranty.

PSU - That 650W will be fine. You could easily drop down to 500W, or even lower - those are measured at the wall (input), power supplies are rated by output wattage, if you can find a Corsair or Seasonic unit cheaper than the 650W one, especially if you are not overclocking and don't plan to run SLI/crossfire.

It has also been suggested by a friend I go with the AMD AM3 Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2Ghz 6 CORE CPU - ($189) and ASUS AM3 CROSSHAIR-V-FORMULA Motherboard ($299) instead...? To help 'future proof'.

The Phenom X6 is slower than the 2500K, and that motherboard is hugely expensive. The gamble is that AMD will produce something faster than the 2500K, but still compatible with the current motherboards, while Intel will change their socket and force you to buy a new motherboard when you upgrade. But I don't see AMD making something fast enough to be worth upgrading from the 2500K, even if you ignore the motherboard cost, before they also upgrade their socket.

It would make more sense with a far cheaper motherboard, and a low/midrange X4 CPU - saving a lot more now, but accepting it as a stopgap with the intent to upgrade to Bulldozer when Bulldozer prices are low enough that you have spent less in total and finish with something that is still faster than the 2500K alternative.

One more thing: get a second WD internal 2TB Caviar Green. You might need it and internal drives have a longer warranty than external ones.

Wait until you need it.

[Conza88]

hi,
if you go with amd route.then i suggest you wait till late September and see some amd new processor{amd 8 core buldozer}.and you don't have to buy so expensive asus motherboar.rather buy a asus 990x mobo at 200$ or less.
if you go intel route then you grab i5 2500k and save some bucks which you can use for 16 gb ram.
there some good cases with harddrive docking station-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133182
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133191
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811133188

You can go the Midsize ATX route with no problem. Just avoid the really cheap cases to save yourself problems as time goes on. Normally I would recommend AMD, but Sandy Bridge has made them look worse than they really are, especially when it comes to price vs. performance at the moment (the new AMD FX CPUs need to arrive now, not September!). If you cannot get a Xonar DG, a simple and inexpensive Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live card should suffice, unless you plan to record audio from analog. If recording from analog, go for the Xonar DX.

Thanks Riviera and Saeed .

The case I am currently getting is the: Thermaltake Armor A60 Mid-ATX ($109). I like the USB 3.0, all black, audio and USB at front. LED fan might be an annoyance as I tend to put the comp on auto shutdown timer and listen to music whilst going to sleep, bright light makes that way harder. Though this is the best value I've found so far, that Computer Alliance has an option. Would there be a way to disable the LED light part?

How much of a difference would the AMD 8 core bulldozer be? Also waiting till end of September I could do, but think I will take the advice of going Intel now. I do plan to record audio from analog. Here is the mixer. Cheers, will check out the Xonar DX. More comments to follow..

[Conza88]

I am big on multi-tasking and pretty multimedia heavy. Mostly internet browsing, email, word processing, music & audio [large growing collection], then video, audio & photo editing, HD.

The first half of this list shouldn't tax a modern desktop. So the question is how much money you want to spend for the video and photo editing speed.

Hi Mboza , yeah this machine is 7 years old.

Dell Dimension 2400 PC.
Processor: Intel Celeron 2.4 GHz processor, 400Mhz FSB (100MHzx4)
Chipset: Intel 845GV chipset
Videocard: Integrated Intel Extreme graphics
Sound: Integrated Soundmax Sound
Memory: 256MB PC-2700 DDR memory (one module)*
Networking: Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 40GB* ATA/100 7200RPM hard drive
*Upgraded RAM to 1278MB and HD 140GB, .

it's about 6 meters from the comp to the tv/home audio system in the lounge room, so I currently run a big cord for audio to play. Wondering if I could do the same with video and watch movies from my collection, through the comp on the tv?

Does the TV have HDMI in? If so, you just need a suitably long HDMI cable, which you should find somewhere online dirt cheap. All new cards should have at least variants supporting HDMI, possibly though a display port adaptor. Otherwise a long VGA cable and whatever you are currently using to handle the audio signal? Or do you need component/composite output for an old TV.

Audio-wise, are you currently plugging the PC into a receiver, or just the AUX phono inputs on a hifi? If the target has digital inputs (like HDMI or S/PDIF ) then a sound card does nothing, unless you need it for recording inputs. If you are doing serious recording work, you might want a USB soundcard anyway. Easy enough to get the PC now, and buy and install the Xonar yourself if the onboard isn't good enough.

Yes, the TV has HDMI in. Awesome. I remember now the problem was that this comp didn't have HDMI, but should - given the mobo you and others have convinced me to go with is -> P8768LE & i5 2005k.

Audio-wise long 3.5mm jack to Aux photo inputs on hifi. No digital inputs, real old system but works well when adjusting bass/itunes equalizer. No recording work being done there.

Processor - unless you do a lot of video editing/encoding and being 10% faster is useful, drop down to the i5-2500K - the rest of the time you wont see a difference between this and the 2600K.

MB - unless the Pro has a feature you want, just go with the LE. Have you considered mATX boards and cases?

Not enough video editing to see 10% as being very important. The PRO mentions Intel Smart Response SSD Cache, but it's also on the LE. I'm actually at a loss to see what the major differences are, in terms of technology and features. Is there are good comparison/review of them both anywhere? I googled, couldn't find one. Given this, going with the LE for the moment.. $100 cheaper.

Memory - you will barely see any difference between ram speeds, the linked G Skill set looks fine.

GPU - I would take the 1GB card, and be prepared to use the price difference to upgrade it a little earlier.
Between the MSI and the ASUS, the MSI looks to be clocked nearly 10% higher, (so will run slightly faster) but only has a 1 year warranty. I would take the MSI card, and if it does happen to die in that second year, I would just buy the latest hotness. Others will prefer the safer option of the longer warranty.

PSU - That 650W will be fine. You could easily drop down to 500W, or even lower - those are measured at the wall (input), power supplies are rated by output wattage, if you can find a Corsair or Seasonic unit cheaper than the 650W one, especially if you are not overclocking and don't plan to run SLI/crossfire.

Memory - ok, thanks. Any commentary on brands for RAM? Most reliable? So going with 8gb (2 x 4gb G.Skill 1600), and the Max on LE is 32gb... so 24gb ram left, that means in the future the speed solution would be too simply buy more ram... 3 times (2x4gb G.Skills). Is that how it works? Are there enough support/slots for that? I have a feeling my noobness is showing here .

It has also been suggested by a friend I go with the AMD AM3 Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2Ghz 6 CORE CPU - ($189) and ASUS AM3 CROSSHAIR-V-FORMULA Motherboard ($299) instead...? To help 'future proof'.

The Phenom X6 is slower than the 2500K, and that motherboard is hugely expensive. The gamble is that AMD will produce something faster than the 2500K, but still compatible with the current motherboards, while Intel will change their socket and force you to buy a new motherboard when you upgrade. But I don't see AMD making something fast enough to be worth upgrading from the 2500K, even if you ignore the motherboard cost, before they also upgrade their socket.

It would make more sense with a far cheaper motherboard, and a low/midrange X4 CPU - saving a lot more now, but accepting it as a stopgap with the intent to upgrade to Bulldozer when Bulldozer prices are low enough that you have spent less in total and finish with something that is still faster than the 2500K alternative.

Cheers for this. More of a 'buy it all in one big bundle' then forget about things till an upgrade is totally necessary. Intel hasn't done me wrong yet (and lasted ages) with no problems, so I think I'll stick with it. Also heard about more reliable which is what I need.

One more thing: get a second WD internal 2TB Caviar Green. You might need it and internal drives have a longer warranty than external ones.

Wait until you need it.

Good point. In terms of OSZ was thinking of going to 80GB Vertex IIE 2.5" Sata 2 (SSD) ($159), from 120GB Vertex 3 2.5" ($295) to save coin. Or will I regret that? I guess the 60GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($149) would be a good compromise? Computer Alliance doesn't seem to sell anything in between 120gb and 60gb at Sata3 though.. if it exists. Are these more reliable than Intel?

[vargis14]

Looks like a good build.case wise i am using a cooler master haf 922.I am very impressed with its silence,having 2 800rpm 200mm fans and a 120mm push pull,silent orange fans h50 type water cooler,even with 2 evga 560ti sc cards that have NV stock cooling they are quiet up to 45% fan speed.Just no usb3 front port"sure you could get a 3.5" usb3 for a front connection for the floppy bay"i have a sentry 2 fan controller that can make it even quieter but really no need. Only change i made with the case was to move the 200mm top exhaust fan to a side intake fan,But if u have pets or/and smoke it will need a monthly dusting.
Well good luck with your build,this was my 1st build since a long time ago a water cooled 4800x2 with crossfire x1800xts and this build took me a whole 4 hrs don't know if it was because of my ssd or windows 7,but easy peasy japaneasy.
Hope i dont get too beatup because of my horrid english typing skills,been doing this since 1998 and still have no proper writing skills,gosh i remember my p2 300 with 2 vodoo2 8mb cards in sli with a nice side fan mod i made to keep them cool and from locking up,got lotsa compliments at a airwarrior convention.then i trained for warbirds ww2 flight sim under =varg= callsign for years.
Cheers!

[Conza88]

Ok, here's an update of where I'm at...

Components:

Processor: Intel S1155 Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz Quad Core CPU UNLOCKED ($209)
Motherboard: Asus S1155 P8Z68-V-LE Motherboard ($169)
Memory: DDR3 8GB (2x4G) G.Skill 1600MHz PC12800 Ripjaws X RAM Kit ($89)... not sure what specifically to get. Compatible with Z68?
Storage: 60GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($149)
Hard Drive: 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32M SATA HDD ($59)
Backup: 2TB WD external USB 2.0 (already have)
Graphics: ATI 6850 1GB ASUS PCIe Video Card ($209)
Power supply: Enermax EG565P-VE FMA 535 Watts Power Supply ($79) That enough?
Sound card: ... Asus Xonar DX, or Asus Xonar DG.
Case: Thermaltake Armor A60 Mid Tower Case EASY DOCK ($109)
Monitor: 23" Asus VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers ($169).
DVD burner: LG CH10LS20 BLK BluRay Combo,10XBD-R,16xDVD, BD-R/RE ($79)

Total Price: roughly $1,320

Then+ OS, maybe mouse and keyboard (recommendations welcome - don't need to be 'gamer' orientated').

- Don't know anything about Raid etc. Do I need an IO controller?
- Pretty locked in with motherboard, cpu.
- RAM - unsure if compatible with Z86 & upgrade possibilities in future. Storage seems ok, 60gb SSD - put OS on here and other big programs, put rest on 1TB Spinpoint.
- Graphics card too good? Power supply ok? Should get a bigger 600W now if I add stuff in future? Don't want to suddenly need to get a new PS.
- Do I have enough fans / cooling? Don't need extra do I?
- Monitor 23" - still looking for something with webcam and speaker included. Don't need speakers, already got them.

Thanks to those who have helped so far! Still some things I need help with. As always, the reading/research continues.

[JustAnEngineer]

Storage: 60GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($149)

60 GB may be a bit cramped. Can your budget stretch to a 96-128 GB SSD?

Graphics: ATI 6850 1GB ASUS PCIe Video Card ($209)

This is adequate for gaming. You'd get better performance from a GeForce GTX560Ti or Radeon HD6950.

Sound card: ... Asus Xonar DX, or Asus Xonar DG.

Take a look at the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium.

Monitor: 23" Asus VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers ($169).

Have you priced the Dell UltraSharp U2311H? IPS LCD panels have much better color and brightness accuracy than TN LCD panels do. TN LCD panels look horrible when viewed from angles other than perfectly perpendicular to the screen.

Speakers built into monitors are pretty much universally junk. You would get much better sound quality from a cheap 2.1-channel speaker system. If you're just going to use the tinny little speakers built into a monitor, you really shouldn't need to bother with any discrete sound card.

[mboza]

60GB is doable, but cramped for a boot disk. At home I have had no problems, but just have win 7 and office/utility apps on the SSD, no games. At work I had to disable hibernation (64GB disk, 24GiB hiberfil.sys), and move projects about to keep the free space tolerable.

With Z68, I would be tempted to go for a small fast SSD and use the Smart Response stuff to have the SSD work as a cache, with a HDD serving as the boot disk. No idea if that would be any faster than a larger slower SSD as boot disk, but it does remove any hassle of managing what is on each disk.

RAM - you only have 4 slots, filled in pairs for best results. 32GB would be 4x8GB sticks, and you would pay through the nose if you can even find them. Buy 8GB now (possibly still excessive, but not that expensive) and you have 2 slots free to upgrade later to 16 or 24GB.

Motherboard comparison - try http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/Intel_Z68, click on a motherboard, and "add to compare". I can't link straight to the compare page, unfortunately.

The Pro has an extra PCIe x16 slot, which would be shared in a x8/x8 split with slot 1, useful for anyone thinking SLI/crossfire.

It also has the onboard Intel LAN enabled, rather than realtek. And it has 2 extra SATA3 ports internally and a bunch of other IO stuff - esata, bluetooth, IEEE1394. But these can all be replicated more cheaply with expansion cards, at the cost of filling expansion slots, if you need them.

And the other difference is the utility programs, but I suspect these are all pretty worthless.

[riviera74]

Conza88, I would (for now) ditch the 1TB Spinpoint drive and roll that money into a 128GB SSD and give yourself some space where needed. That existing 2TB external drive can be used until you run out of space; at that point go for a 2TB internal drive for added space in a few months or less.

[Conza88]

Will respond shortly. Here's a friends comments. Thoughts?

"I agree with mboza's points. Once just about every computer was shipped with 2gb+ of RAM, it is no longer the universally best-value upgrade path it used to be a few years back. 4gb is generally the most you'll need, though if you work with extreme (1920x1080+) photo/video resolutions, 8gb+ RAM may actually be necessary. Keep in mind RAM speed ratings are meaningless in most cases. RAM's almost always sold as x Ghz, but this doesn't tell the whole story. As RAM manufacturers increase the Ghz speed, they usually have to increase the time between data being sent out and received (or, in computer lingo, "loosen the timings"). There's usually a negligible performance increase going up in Ghz and higher in timings, but ultimately, a 800Mhz DDR2 stick's going to perform near-identical with a 1066Mhz DDR2 stick using higher timings. In some cases, RAM sticks are manufactured to exceed typical speed ratings AND use lower timings... but there's usually a way-too-high premium attached. You should probably go with the cheapest RAM you can find rated well on Newegg. Between large CPU caches, and massive increases in GPU on-board memory, however, RAM's role in the overall computing experience is pretty diminished (EXCEPT when editing large 4gb+ files as you may be).

I disagree with the points made about taking out the HDDs and upgrading the SSD. I'm using a SSD now (Agility 2), and have thus far been pretty unimpressed. For the most part, it performs pretty much the same as two "average" HDDs in RAID 0 - but the HDDs cost just $50 each and give over 15x the hard drive space. SSDs have come up a bit in performance since the Agility 2, but not by nearly enough to justify the cost, IMO. If I were you, I'd purchase two or three HDDs (three modern 7200RPM in RAID 0 will kick the Agility's ass in most scenarios, but three disks put you at greater risk for a total RAID failure) and put them in RAID 0, with all data being regularly backed up on the external drive. Samsung's a solid HDD manu., though I've had extremely good experience with Western Digital (I've had a WD drive for 4 years in extremely hot, humid conditions without a single problem, and have had a couple other WD drives in similar conditions for about a year now without fault). Whatever you do, stay the **** away from Seagate.

Related to RAID, in response to your Q -- RAID is usually handled by the MoBo or Windows, now. Win7 has excellent RAID virtualization capability, and it's pretty damned easy to set up. You get the added benefit of being able to move your RAID array to a diff. WinVista or Win7 box without much hassle. It's speed is comparable to most on-board RAID hardware in MoBos, and slightly inferior to dedicated (and insanely expensive) RAID cards. IIRC, you can actually set up the RAID array right in the Windows installer before you put the OS on. If you decide to keep the SSD, 60gb is likely too small. Win7 & WinVista are horrible disk-fillers. It's not just hibernation, but Windows (since XP) keeps massive copies of .dll files necessary for the PC to run on the boot drive. It does it in a bizarre klugey way where it's near-impossible to do anything with it, and it has to stay on the boot drive. It's in a folder called Winsxs and increases dramatically as you install programs on the computer (either the HDDs or the SSD - and the folder generally never shrinks after deleting programs). Windows files alone on my moderately-used PC currently take up over 15gb of space on my PC, nearly 7gb just in that Winsxs folder.

You'll also probably want to consider virtual RAM. SSD would be great for use as virtual RAM because SSDs greatest ability is how it excels in random read/writes, just as RAM (random-access memory) itself does. In Windows (I think this started with XP), when you run out of RAM space, it's no longer the end of the world. Windows instead allocates a space on a hard drive to essentially act as RAM, so if you run out of RAM space on your actual sticks, it just tosses it on the hard drive. Depending on how much RAM you end up putting in, you'll probably want 2-4gb dedicated for use as virtual RAM on your SSD.

One nice thing about having more RAM than you need is that you can enable pre-fetching. I believe this was introduced in Vista -- when booting Windows, it now stuffs commonly-used program files into your RAM, so when you load up a program, it takes dramatically less time to load. This could be great if you're often using programs like Adobe Creative Suite. I know how long those can take to load up. This takes a lot of the kick out of the idea of purchasing a SSD for the sake of decreasing program load times, IMO.

If you intend to overclock your gfx card and/or CPU, give yourself a higher-rated PSU than 535w. 625w+ should be fine, but 535w is a little close to the edge if you OC, and may cause issues on hot days (PSU power output degrades with temperature increase) if you're doing video encoding.

On mouse & keyboard, note if your wired setup ever bothers you and consider going wireless. Logitech offers great wireless software for its durable wireless hardware. Wireless tech has come a long way from the old IR days, and devices can easily last many months without needing a new battery while reliably broadcasting a very reliable signal to the receiver.

Sorry to be a bit wordy. Hope it helps."

[Conza88]

Storage: 60GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($149)

60 GB may be a bit cramped. Can your budget stretch to a 96-128 GB SSD?

The next step up is the 80GB, but it's Vertex II. So basically half as fast as Agility etc. They are only 60gb, 120gb which is a tad annoying. So jump is from 60->120gb and a big price diff.

Graphics: ATI 6850 1GB ASUS PCIe Video Card ($209)

This is adequate for gaming. You'd get better performance from a GeForce GTX560Ti or Radeon HD6950.

Yep, but wanted to save money as it was apparently overkill for what I intend to do. Realise now it is just $10 more for 6950.. and that should enable some longevity. Just wondering which one?

ATI 6950 1GB Powercolor PCIe Video Card
Radeon HD 6950 GPU, 1GB DDR5, 800MHz Core Clock, 1250MHz Memory Clock, PCIe 2.1, DVI, HDMI, Mini DisplayPort, PN AX6950-1GBD5-2DH ($219)

ATI 6950 1GB Gigabyte PCIe Video Card
ATI Radeon HD 6950 GPU, 1GB DDR5, PCIe 2.1, HDMI, DVI-I, DVI-D, DisplayPort, CrossFireX Support, PN R695OC-1GD ($239)

So just $10 or $30 to go from 6850 to 6950. The 6850 has a 2 year warranty though, the others just one.

Sound card: ... Asus Xonar DX, or Asus Xonar DG.

Take a look at the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium.

They all look excey.

Monitor: 23" Asus VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers ($169).

Have you priced the Dell UltraSharp U2311H? IPS LCD panels have much better color and brightness accuracy than TN LCD panels do. TN LCD panels look horrible when viewed from angles other than perfectly perpendicular to the screen.

Speakers built into monitors are pretty much universally junk. You would get much better sound quality from a cheap 2.1-channel speaker system. If you're just going to use the tinny little speakers built into a monitor, you really shouldn't need to bother with any discrete sound card.

Yeah, wasn't going to use them on their own. Though not sure if they could play alongside my two logitech speakers that are pretty quality.

I'll take a look at the Dell Ultrasharp. Angles shouldn't be an issue with me. Unsure about LCD, LED etc. Any good sources?

Monitors I am currently deciding on;
23" LG E2350V LED Backlit Monitor
23" Widescreen Display, Full HD 1080p Resolution (1920x1080), 5ms Response Time, 5M:1 Contrast, D-Sub, DVI-D, HDMI, Two-way Stand($179)

And:

23" ASUS VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers
23" Display, 1920x1080 Resolution, 5ms Response, Stereo Speakers, DVI-D, D-Sub, HDMI ($169)

[Conza88]

It was mentioned that the PS I was going to use is 5 years old, ancient. Next suggestions for $89 were Antac 500W, and OCZ 600W for the same price. Makes sense to go with that correct?

Also fan wise.. The Armor A60 case I plan to get already has;

Intake:
1 x 120mm in the front.

Exhaust:
1 x 200mm at back top.
1 x 120mm at back.
1 x 135mm fan with PSU.
Stock fan with CPU?

Optional to add 120mm fans:
Front(intake), Bottom [if PSU isn't too big] (intake), Side (intake), Top front (exhaust).

Suggestions? I think I may already have enough fans, or would more be better? Anyway to get a duster filter for side from somewhere? I'm guessing another front fan would be optimal, or on the side?

Looking at this fan atm: Antec TriCool 120mm Fan, Blue LED Light. Doesn't need to have LED. Seems like a lot of fans, do I need a controller?

[mboza]

Will respond shortly. Here's a friends comments. Thoughts?

I disagree with the points made about taking out the HDDs and upgrading the SSD. I'm using a SSD now (Agility 2), and have thus far been pretty unimpressed. For the most part, it performs pretty much the same as two "average" HDDs in RAID 0 - but the HDDs cost just $50 each and give over 15x the hard drive space. SSDs have come up a bit in performance since the Agility 2, but not by nearly enough to justify the cost, IMO.

True if you are considering sustained transfer rate (STR), which is useful if you are handling large sequential files and need lots of throughput (like uncompressed video capture). If you were in this category, you would already have a RAID. The real advantage of SSDs are the microsecond seek times. Any time you need a file on a HDD, it will take ~14ms for the HDD to rotate to the start of the file. If you need to load lots of files (e.g. dlls on program start), or a heavily fragmented file, you need to wait for each chunk, and the HDD is much slower, causing a perceptible delay, which a SSD will eliminate. Try clicking on the start menu, and sometimes you wait for windows to load the dlls that tells it how to draw the menu, and read in the files that tell it what is in the start menu. With an ssd, this is instantaneous. Lots of memory will also reduce this advantage, as windows will use the spare memory to cache frequently used files.

Depending on how much RAM you end up putting in, you'll probably want 2-4gb dedicated for use as virtual RAM on your SSD.

You can fiddle with this depending on how much space you have free, and split the page file across multiple disks - Windows should use the faster disk preferentially.

One nice thing about having more RAM than you need is that you can enable pre-fetching. I believe this was introduced in Vista -- when booting Windows, it now stuffs commonly-used program files into your RAM, so when you load up a program, it takes dramatically less time to load. This could be great if you're often using programs like Adobe Creative Suite. I know how long those can take to load up. This takes a lot of the kick out of the idea of purchasing a SSD for the sake of decreasing program load times, IMO.

True - you end up with tiers of fast expensive storage down to slow cheap storage - RAM, (huge gap), SSDs, HDDs from 15k rpm down to "green" 5400rpm. How much you want at each layer is a judgement call. Over-buying at any level is a waste of money

If you intend to overclock your gfx card and/or CPU, give yourself a higher-rated PSU than 535w. 625w+ should be fine, but 535w is a little close to the edge if you OC, and may cause issues on hot days (PSU power output degrades with temperature increase) if you're doing video encoding.

I wouldnt worry about ambient temp too much, but then, I live in Scotland. Most modern PSUs will have a temp controlled fan, and the motherboard will usually have some form of temp control for the system fans.

You probably have enough fans already, can always add more down the road if you are unhappy with the system temps. Thetricool looks decent considering the small selection, but I would get the non-LED version.

[JustAnEngineer]

I'm not overly fond of the Antec Tri-cool fans. How much does a Scythe Kaze Jyuni fan go for in your part of the world?

[frumper15]

The SSD decision is a tricky one. I would say if you can stretch the budget go for a 128GB of either the "3" series OCZ sandforce drives, Micron/Crucial M4, or Intel 510 series. Those will all let you get the performance with the least compromise. I think another viable alternative would be the Intel 320 series (maybe an 80GB?). If you simply can't I would say trying a current gen drive in smaller capacity (60gb, etc.) would be interesting to try with SRT built into the Z68. However, I would think about long term usefulness of a 60GB drive. I'm reminded of my 36GB Raptor that was small when I purchased it, but nothing could touch it for performance. For years I dealt with moving games and programs and files off my desktop to keep reasonable performance on my boot drive. I finally realized that the 640GB WD drive that replaced it a few years ago was quieter, faster and didn't come with space limitations for half of what i paid originally. I was tempted to get a smaller ca. $100 SSD to try out but I am glad I spent the $200 on a Crucial C300 128GB that has enough room for all my common programs, a few Steam games, etc. while maintaining excellent performance and without the headache of data management.
This article http://www.anandtech.com/show/4337/z68- ... dforce-ssd gives an interesting perspective on SSD caching using the Z68 chipset that might be worth a read for you.

[Conza88]

Ok, another update of where I am at. Crossed out is what I feel is locked in. Gone back up with Corsair 650W, was feeling suss about other brands.

Components:

Processor: Intel S1155 Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz Quad Core CPU UNLOCKED ($215)
Motherboard: Asus S1155 P8Z68-V-LE Motherboard ($169)
Memory: DDR3 8GB (2x4G) G.Skill 1600MHz PC12800 Ripjaws X RAM Kit ($89)
Graphics: ATI 6950 1GB ASUS PCIe Video Card ($219)
DVD burner: LG CH10LS20 BLK BluRay Combo,10XBD-R,16xDVD, BD-R/RE ($59)
Power supply: Corsair TX650W V2 ($119)
Case: Thermaltake Armor A60 Mid Tower Case EASY DOCK ($108)
Sound card: Asus Xonar DG. Will either have to get from somewhere else, or CA to order in.
Monitor: 23" Asus VH232H LCD Monitor in built speakers ($169). Or BenQ 24"? Or 23" LG E2350V LED Backlit Monitor ($179). Something around $180ish, preferably below, 16:9, 1920x1080.

Current Backup: 2TB WD external USB 2.0 (already have)
1TB Buffalo external USB 2.0 (failed drive once)
100gb external USB 2.0 (no brand, old, but runs ok still)

Total so far: $1,157.00

Last issue I need to conquer is storage, OS set up etc. Which I find a tad confusing, even given the supportive answers. Maybe too much info to take in. On the Z68, there is SRT caching? Atm, this computer has 148gb with next to no space left. Big chunk is music. Videos I have in backup and watch them from there, where they run fine. Computer games I tend to have uninstalled. But backups sit on ex HD. Music is on the comp, but have it backed up on ex hd. Would it be possible to have it all on ex hd and simply run from there? Don't like the idea of having to swap things all the time to clear the drive. So a combination of both could be best? Only really looked at ver.3 SSD's, which are double speed of ver.2 but cheaper. Would there be a point in using say 60gb ver3, with another 60gb ver 2?

Unsure of combo, 60gb SSD Agility 3 + 1tb Spinpoint f3?
Or 120gb SSD Agility 3 on it's own.

Current options:

Storage: - 60GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($139)
- 120GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($209)

Hard Drive: - 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32M SATA HDD ($59)
- 1TB Western Digital EALX 7200rpm SATA3 6Gb/s Caviar Blue HDD ($60)

Thanks again. Nearly there . Some price falls happened aswell. So kind of negate the bump up to Corsair 650W.

[riviera74]

Ok, another update of where I am at. Crossed out is what I feel is locked in. Gone back up with Corsair 650W, was feeling suss about other brands.

Last issue I need to conquer is storage, OS set up etc. Which I find a tad confusing, even given the supportive answers. Maybe too much info to take in. On the Z68, there is SRT caching? Atm, this computer has 148gb with next to no space left. Big chunk is music. Videos I have in backup and watch them from there, where they run fine. Computer games I tend to have uninstalled. But backups sit on ex HD. Music is on the comp, but have it backed up on ex hd. Would it be possible to have it all on ex hd and simply run from there? Don't like the idea of having to swap things all the time to clear the drive. So a combination of both could be best? Only really looked at ver.3 SSD's, which are double speed of ver.2 but cheaper. Would there be a point in using say 60gb ver3, with another 60gb ver 2?

Unsure of combo, 60gb SSD Agility 3 + 1tb Spinpoint f3?
Or 120gb SSD Agility 3 on it's own.

Current options:

Storage: - 60GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($139)
- 120GB OCZ Agility 3 2.5" SATA3 SSD Drive ($209)

Hard Drive: - 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200rpm 32M SATA HDD ($59)
- 1TB Western Digital EALX 7200rpm SATA3 6Gb/s Caviar Blue HDD ($60)

Thanks again. Nearly there . Some price falls happened aswell. So kind of negate the bump up to Corsair 650W.

Yes, the Z68 uses SRT. It is a Z68 exclusive. You can read up on that here.

My opinion is that you get a 120GB SSD and install your OS and applications there. Use a large HDD for storing music and videos.

[Conza88]

I'm not overly fond of the Antec Tri-cool fans. How much does a Scythe Kaze Jyuni fan go for in your part of the world?

About the same price it seems. They're much better? I've changed to Antec 300 case btw. Btw, not sure how but hope for all the fans to be able to be controlled through mobo/comp.. so I don't need to open it up and do it manually. How could that be achieved?

Yes, the Z68 uses SRT. It is a Z68 exclusive. You can read up on that here.

My opinion is that you get a 120GB SSD and install your OS and applications there. Use a large HDD for storing music and videos.

Thanks. I'm thinking (since max cache is around 64gb according to intel, then you start to lose value for $ wise).. so was trying to find a SSD around 80gb Sata III, then can be used for OS + rest as cache. Would that make sense?

[ordskiweicz]

Do not buy a 64 GB SSD. You'll need more space and you want some overhead. I bought a 64 and now its a doorstop. 120 or so much more useable and worthwhile. No such a big price differential.

[Aussienerd]

Nothing to add just loving fellow Australians on TR.

Love your work

[Conza88]

Do not buy a 64 GB SSD. You'll need more space and you want some overhead. I bought a 64 and now its a doorstop. 120 or so much more useable and worthwhile. No such a big price differential.

True. I want to avoid that. I was thinking maybe 120gb. 20gb for windows as boot. Does that contain min cache though? Or on top of that do I then assign min. cache for srt? So.. 100gb, or 80gb left on SSD for apps... that seems like enough, no?

Was thinking about may as well keeping this Dell monitor I have atm, 15" max 1280 x 1024... as a second monitor [thinking about playing lectures / video on this, or other and multi tasking], and getting a new one (still undecided) as main (1920x1080) it will be.

Will the ATI 6950 1GB be able to deal with that ok?

[riviera74]

Was thinking about may as well keeping this Dell monitor I have atm, 15" max 1280 x 1024... as a second monitor [thinking about playing lectures / video on this, or other and multi tasking], and getting a new one (still undecided) as main (1920x1080) it will be.

Will the ATI 6950 1GB be able to deal with that ok?

Any Radeon card should be able to deal with multiple monitors just fine. The only question is whether the video card can deal with two monitors at different resolutions.

[Conza88]

Any Radeon card should be able to deal with multiple monitors just fine. The only question is whether the video card can deal with two monitors at different resolutions.

Oh true. Thanks. I found this discussion kind of helpful.

AMD Radeon HD 6950 - "Independent resolutions, refresh rates, color controls, and video overlays"

Guess that's a yes? . But seems to be a big rise in temps reported for some folks.

[Conza88]

Hey guys, got this message from a guy at the store.

Hi Mike,
A better solution would be the Gigabyte S1155 GA-Z68X-UD3R-B3 Motherboard http://www.computeralliance.com.au/parts.aspx?qryPart=12790($187) and Antec Nine hundred Two V3 Case http://www.computeralliance.com.au/parts.aspx?qryPart=12328($139).

Kind regards,
___.

Thoughts?

Would be instead of Asus S1155 P8Z68-V-LE Motherboard($159) & Antec Three Hundred Mid ATX Case (No PS) ($79)

Or are they just trying to up-sell me?

[JustAnEngineer]

Compare the features of the motherboards. Does one of them have something that you'll use that the other lacks? Toss the GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 into the comparison, too. Asus has the best UEFI implementation at this time, but I'm certain that the Gigabyte boards will run fine.

The Antec Three Hundred is a well-ventilated mid-tower ATX case that works well. The Three Hundred Illusion is the same case with two more fans included and LED illumination added to three of the fans. The Nine Hundred Two V3 is larger and adds a window. Do you plan on installing a couple of huge graphics cards and lots of drives?

[Conza88]

Compare the features of the motherboards. Does one of them have something that you'll use that the other lacks? Toss the GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 into the comparison, too. Asus has the best UEFI implementation at this time, but I'm certain that the Gigabyte boards will run fine.

The Antec Three Hundred is a well-ventilated mid-tower ATX case that works well. The Three Hundred Illusion is the same case with two more fans included and LED illumination added to three of the fans. The Nine Hundred Two V3 is larger and adds a window. Do you plan on installing a couple of huge graphics cards and lots of drives?

Nope. Thanks. Sent him an email explaining things. About to go through with it... just debating whether I do the built (first one), or get them too. They do testing etc and make sure it is reliable and obviously have tons of experience. Reliability is my main concern. So leaning towards them building it.

Is there anything I need to make clear? I'm going with 120gb SSD, so I don't think I will need SRT with the 1TB F3 Samsung HDD. But any other settings / set up suggestions to make clear?

I have windows xp on my old comp.. and want to go to windows 7 home edition. Do I need to go retail, or can I upgrade some how.