Contemplating a new build....

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Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:45 am

Ran across this the other day.... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163176&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

I've never owned a Silverstone case but always drooled over them. Couldn't bring myself to pay the price. Same way with some Lian Li units. The FT03 appeals to me because it would fit next to my TV stand nicely (on something solid instead of the carpet mind you)

Looking about on Newegg though I notice the MicroATX boards don't have PCI-x 3.0 yet. While not a deal breaker I obsess a bit much over "future proofing" components when in reality we all know how that ends up a year or two down the road anyway.... :)

I'm 50/50 on building.... my Envy 14 laptop cringes at the thoughts of Skyrim and other recent games. I rarely game anymore but you know how those occasional itches beat down your practicality?
ModernPrimitive
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:17 am

If I am correct, PCIE 3.0 brings more bandwidth to the slot. However, when you consider that there is no performance benefit from halving PCIE 2.0 bandwidth today (lots of boards run at 8x instead of 16x for one reason or another and there is no performance penalty in pretty much any real way), you can see why I don't consider it a big deal to have to future proof for pcie 3.0.

In other words, even today the pcie 2.0 slots have more than enough bandwidth for GPUs to use and it doesn't appear like 2.0 will be a limiting factor in gpu performance for a long long time.
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:32 am

Yeah ...I know what you mean! Wish I had the time to be gaming like it was 1999 :P You can get a very decent gaming build for around $900.

Im not sure how Important PCIe 3.0 will be anytime soon. Considering current graphics cards can work fine on 8x instead of 16x (as is the case in SLI), maybe future cards will work on 16x minimum which is what most boards have. Anyway, there will probably be new processors out that require new chip set designs and those will probably have 3.0.

I wouldn't worry to much about future proofing, really, build your system for exactly what you need. That way you wont overspend and you'll never regret it! Something I learnt from NCIX tech tips ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4ip08auGg
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:48 am

Yeah, not worried about the PCI-x 3.0. I'm more worried about building a box and it going to waste. Ahhh 1999... the year I got addicted to Mechwarrior 3... lol. *eyes go all dreamy*
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:48 pm

That case is very sexy. Unique is always a good draw-in

PCI 3.0 at this moment really only has the benfit of alleviating bottlenecks of auxiliary connections. PCI 3.0 compatable CPU's will reduce the problem of PCI switching whereas current mobos are tying a bunch of expansion slots to a limited number of PCI lanes/bandwidth. As far as GPU bandwith, yes, current GPU's cannot saturate PCI 2.0 x16, and I wouldn't expect this to change for a fair amount of time yet. Also, based on your chosen case, a micro-ATX or smaller MOBO is less likely to run into these problems with to many expansion slots sharing PCI lanes.

If you're not hole-heartedly in the hardcore gaming crowd any longer (first step in the rehab process), you might need to settle with the prospect of a "good enough" gaming rig. Desktops still offer a level of cost/performance that laptops cannot touch, afterall you're paying for the "mobile" benefit of laptops.

You might consider starting at TR's "Utility Player" and fine-tuning based on your available funds and a micro-ATX mobo to fit into your Silverstone case (FYI, Intel CPU's are providing higher gaming performance per dollar right now compared to AMD, some AMD fans will likely ague this point):
http://techreport.com/articles.x/21164/4
I'm basing the Utility Player recommendation solely on your interest in a ~$170 case and assuming system prices to match similarly. IMO, the "Utility Player" system provides more than adequate gaming performance for 90%+ of gamers out there, representing the "sweet spot" in gaming systems. The Econobox on page 2 of the same article may even be enough for your needs, which is still a respectable system. If you give a rough estimate of how much you're looking to spend in total, we can provide better advice. You might be able to get away with a less expensive setup based on your needs and available funds.. (However, as a warning based on whatever monetary limit you provide, this might require you to abandon your "dream case" by putting function over form) Please let us know if you are really locked into this Silverstone case, that way people wont hastle you with alternatives for less expensive cases.
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:40 pm

Thanks for the help DPete27. Sorry it took me awhile as I was out of town for an extended weekend. The unique case is mostly what drew me in. I'm rethinking it a bit now as being tied to the microATX also has some obvious disadvantages that scare me a bit, expansion slots. A normal ATX would also let me use one of the newer 3.0 equipped Z68 boards. On the AMD note, I've always leaned more towards the green but performance per dollar and all out performance fight some hard battles and practicality goes out the window usually. My last 2 full gaming rigs have been Intel equipped. The Bulldozer debacle has further "pushed" me into Intel's corner. I'll probably end up spending around 1800 on the box and the Corsair 600T is my next fav case so far. It's looking like I may wait for the next round of graphics cards though which will be a few months. I would hate to get a 6970 or 580 and get ill if the next gen cards 28nm cards are a good leap forward. Of course I could get a 550ti or something to tide me over and use it for a second phys-x dedicated card. Not sure how the phys-x scene is even progressing though..... seems the last time I heard much was Mafia 2.
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:19 am

I wouldn't be too afraid of microATX unless you're into SLI or Crossfire (then you'll probably want ATX). I run a single graphics card, and looking inside my case, I have 3 other expansion cards. (Wireless N, USB 3.0, and Xonar DG soundcard) This is a LGA 775 build so its well aged. (yes, I'm dying for an upgrade, but I want to try and wait until Ivy Bridge) So if you consider that I'm only using as many expansion cards as microATX mobos have slots in my dated computer, my logic would say that I would not run into problems getting a microATX mobo with a new build. Obviously your needs may well be different than mine, but that is what I suggest. Look inside your current computer and see if you could have gotten away with a microATX mobo. If you could have, chances are your next computer will be the same. (I'll touch on PCI 3.0 in a second)

It seems as though new 28nm graphics cards may be really sweet based on recent articles posted here on Tech Report. (40nm to 28nm is quite the jump) On the downside, cardmakers seem to be expecting less than optimal supply at first. This means you're probably looking at late Q1 2012 before supplly is satisfactory and prices have dropped off the "band new" peak.

PCI 3.0 mobos are starting to come out more and more. While I haven't seen any microATX offerings yet, all major mobo manufacturers now have PCI 3.0 ATX mobos out. Its only a matter of time until microATX offerings surface. If you're looking to wait until 28nm GPU's come out, chances are you'll have microATX PCI 3.0 mobos to choose from so don't psych yourself out over that just yet.
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:23 pm

Good points as usual DPete. I had tossed the idea of a dedicated physx nVidia card around. I knew i could get away with a wireless N card and soundcard on MicroATX but could be pushing it with space/heat constraints. I'm mostly waiting on the new 28nm GPUS now. Ivy Bridge will be widely available barring major and unexpected issues also. I really love the look of the Fortress case and it would look lots nicer sitting next to the TV vs a behemoth with led fan... of course i would clip the wire for the led fans in the 600T if i go that route. :-?

I'm just using an Envy 14 laptop for duties at the moment. Had thought of passing it on to someone else at Christmas but that kind of rushes the build and I don't think ATI and nVidia is going to be able to rush up their end for me. :) Hoping the next GPU's from Red n Green are both winners and neither a letdown like a recent cpu release.... Ivy Bridge and a new 28nm GPU would be sweet huh. I've read the reports on the card partners being cautious and I would say they are smart in doing so. If yields are better than expected there will be a couple of lucky partners though.
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:39 pm

Yes, heat can be a problem as you move up the ladder of graphics cards. However, I don't think you will run into problems if you're using a single graphics card. There is one reviewer on newegg is running a Nvidia 570, I've also found a single 580 and someone with what looks like 6870's or 6950's cross-fired with a quick google search . Also remember the 28nm jump will lower TDP. That being said, the Fortress case is obviously much smaller inside than a traditional case so heat pockets can have a more direct effect on component temps. I would only recommend the case if you're using a single graphics card. If you're still in the market for miniATX still but want a bit more room and better ventilation, this is my personal favorite.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352008

One thing I forgot to point out in my previous post. Keep in mind that mini-ATX cases typically have 4 rear slots, decent graphics cards take up 2, leaving you with only enough room for 2 expansion cards. That may be a deal breaker for the mini-ATX consideration.
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:29 pm

You can run two graphics cards on a micro-ATX motherboard, as long as you pick the right motherboard to start with.

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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:23 pm

The Fortress would prob be great with the 28nm cards. I think I've decided against 2 cards anyway.

Thanks for the links JAE. The Asus GENE board is the one i was looking at when i first started digging around.

Whew.... wish i had ate less of the chocolate I was supposed to be giving out to the kids this eve.... :roll: :o :D
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Re: Contemplating a new build....

Postposted on Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:28 pm

A better idea, especially since this one does not restrict you to mATX.
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