Strong computer for games - please review my config

[Tharbad]

Hi,

This is the first time I build a computer with such a big budget. Please tell me what you think about this configuration. I Also have a few questions.

Target Use:
Games - Strategy, First Shooter and RPG
VMware
Some graphic editing (not pro)
Time span: 4-5 years

Quietness:
Should be as quiet as possible. I won't be sleeping with the PC one but I wouldn't like to hear it too.

Prices and local sellers:
I'll convert the prices from the local currency to dollar.
Please note that there're some item that aren't sold here. Newegg doesn't ship here. Other stores add a ~20$ fee for shipping here + I have to pay 20% local taxes for packages above 75$. So basicly, unless item are sold in half price, It cheaper to buy from local stores.

Budget: 2050$

CPU:
Intel Core i7-3770K Tray - 433$
Can I use the bundled Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to overclock the CPU to 4GHz (and turbo to 4.4Ghz)?

CPU Cooler:
Antech KUHLER H2O 920 - 107$
Is this too much for the 3770K?

Motherboard:
Gygabyte GA-Z77X-D3H - 202$
Can I use a non mSATA drive for SRT (Intel SSd Caching)?

Memory:
G. Skill Ares 4x4GB 2133MHz - 210$

Case:
Fractal Design Define R3 - 133$

Additional Cooling:
2 or 3 Noctua NF-P14-FLX - 23$ each

Total Sum to this point: 1154$

Power Supply:
Seasonic X-660 (171$) or Seasonic X-760 (194$). Depending on the GPU.
Other Possibilities are: Corsair 750W V2 (160$), Antec HCG 750W (169$) and Seasonic M12II 750W (169$).

GPU:
The GPU is a problem.
I need 2 GPU (3 Monitors + 1 TV to connect).
The Radeon HD 7850 price range is 328$ to 372$.
The Radeon HD 7870 price range is 467$ to 512$
The Radeon HD 7950 price range is 487$ to 538$.

My current GPU is the HD 5770. I don't want to be in that performance level again. The 7850 is only a small step above (the 7770) so I would like to buy the 7870, but then I've noticed that in the same price I could get the 7950. So now I'm thinking that maybe I'll wait to the next prices drop (probably in September or October) and buy 2 HD 7950. If I use the 7950, I must buy a 700W+ PSU, right?

Other Items:
1 SSD 128GB is required. I think I'll take Vertex 4.
I already have 1 SSD (OCZ Agility 3) that will be used for caching my 1TB Black Cavier.

DVD Drive - I'll take some random drive for 30$. That the lowest price here.

Edit: 26.6.2012 Based on 25-26.6 Replies.


There are two options with the RAM and the CPU:
1) For VMs and games:
CPU:
Intel 3770K - 435$
Will be overclocked to 4GHz

RAM:
(1,2, and 3 are two item of 2x8GB kits, 4 is 1 kit of 4x8GB)
4x8GB 1333GHz 9-9-9-24
1) G.Skill Ripjaws-X - 302$
2) G.Skill Ares - 302$
or 4x8GB 1600MHz 10-10-10-30
3) G.Skill Ares - 352$
4) G.Skill Ripjaws-Z - 344$

2) For games only:
CPU:
Intel 3570K - 279$
Will be overclocked to 4GHz

RAM:
4x4GB 1600MHz - G. Skill Sniper or Corsair Vengeance or G.Skill RipjawsZ - 140$-150$
or 2x8GB 1333GHz 9-9-9-24
1) G.Skill Ripjaws-X - 151$
2) G.Skill Ares - 151$
or 2x8GB 1600MHz 10-10-10-30
3) G.Skill Ares - 176$
Does the 1600MHz worth the extra 25$? Or should I try to overclock the 1333MHz (Please note that I have no experience with OC)?

CPU cooler :
Cooler Master 212 Evo (52$)or Antec KUHLER 920 (107$) - Which one will be more quiet?

Case:
Fractal Design Define R3 - 133$

Additional Cooling:
2 or 3 Noctua NF-P14-FLX - 23$ each

Power Supply:
Seasonic X-760 (194$).

Motherboard:
Gygabyte GA-Z77X-D3H - 202$

GPU:
One 7950 at September and another one when the prices decline (in the end of the year).
If those cards cost ~360$ in the USA and ~500$ in local stores, it means that the prices will fall in next few months.

SSD:
I have a OCZ Agility 3 128GB. Should I get a new one (for ~230$) and install the OS on it and then use the Agility for some games?

DVD:
Random drive for 30$

Total sum (RAM is 1333MHz. Without GPU and new SSD):
Games only: 1109$
VMs and Games: 1417$

Thanks for your help

[JustAnEngineer]

Intel Core i7-3770K Tray - 433$

Would your VM applications benefit from the VT-d support in the non-K Intel processors?
Do your applications benefit greatly from hyper-threading, or would the cheaper Core i5-3570K provide almost equal performance with its four true cores?

Antech KUHLER H2O 920 - 107$ Is this too much for the 3770K?

This should work fine. You might get similar performance for $37 with the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo.

Memory: G. Skill Ares 4x4GB 2133MHz - 210$

If you're going to get 16 GiB, why not get 2x8 GiB instead of 4x4 GiB?

GPU: I need 2 GPU (3 Monitors + 1 TV to connect).

Why should that take 2 graphics cards?
Radeon HD7850 for $235-15MIR can drive 1 DVI + 2 DisplayPort + 1 HDMI output easily

[superjawes]

Sort of a side question because I'm curious...there's no need to match GPUs if you're just doing multi monitor setups, correct? (I ask because it came up.)

Also, not to pry too much, so feel free to ignore this question, but where are you? Although we can estimate prices in USD, a few good gerbils might be able to find some deals in your neck of the woods (or hey, the might be in the area).

[Tharbad]

Intel Core i7-3770K Tray - 433$

Would your VM applications benefit from the VT-d support in the non-K Intel processors?
Do your applications benefit greatly from hyper-threading, or would the cheaper Core i5-3570K provide almost equal performance with its four true cores?

I think that my apps will perform better with the VT-d but I want to overclock the CPU. Is it possible to get to 4GHz with the 3770?
HT will give me some advantage over the 3570.

Antech KUHLER H2O 920 - 107$ Is this too much for the 3770K?

This should work fine. You might get similar performance for $37 with the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo.

I would like to get my CPU to 30c-40c max temp (Even in the hot summer - when the temp in the room is 30c). Is it possible with the 212 Evo (local price is 52$)?

Memory: G. Skill Ares 4x4GB 2133MHz - 210$

If you're going to get 16 GiB, why not get 2x8 GiB instead of 4x4 GiB?

There are no 2x8GB 2133MHz with a reasonable price tag here.

GPU: I need 2 GPU (3 Monitors + 1 TV to connect).

Why should that take 2 graphics cards?
Radeon HD7850 for $235-15MIR can drive 1 DVI + 2 DisplayPort + 1 HDMI output easily

If I connect 4 screens, I need to use the DisplayPort to DVI active cable, right?
If I want to use Eyefinity on 3 of the screens, the 7850 will make it (let say in Mass Effect 3 with AAx2 AFx4 and High texture)?
Edit:
Wait, I remember that Radeon cards support only 2 monitors or 3 with DP. Is it possible to get to 4? Please note that XFX is not sold here anymore.

Sort of a side question because I'm curious...there's no need to match GPUs if you're just doing multi monitor setups, correct? (I ask because it came up.)

I want to be able to play games in the next 4 years too...

[DPete27]

1) Not sure why you're even considering SSD caching. With a 128GB SSD you should be installing the OS on it which will be much faster than using caching.

2) The 7770 and 7850 are hardly similar in terms of performance. It looks like you'll be doing eyefinity gaming? If so a 7950 with 3GB of memory should offer a decent amount of mulit-monitor gaming longevity for around $360.

3) If you're interested in quietness, you should be looking at ASUS boards as they offer by far the best fan controls of any manufacturer.

4) Yes the 3770K will overclock to around 4.5GHz without any voltage increase. The performance gains by having HT vary depending on what task you are performing. Make sure the difference is significant before you spend $200 more for it as opposed to a 3570K. (Ed. Have a glance through this article. You won't see any difference in gaming)

5) You wont keep a 3750K or 3770K at 40c under full load even with water if the ambient temp is 30c.

6) Are you REALLY into overclocking? If not, the performance difference between 2133MHz and 1600MHz RAM is only about 4% or less in many cases.

[glacius555]

I'd go with Seasonic X-760, or X-series in general, probably best you can get for a price that is still reasonable.

Also, I agree that beyond 1600 MHz RAM won't matter, unless you find ones with lower timings in the CL9 or lower in first three values. Even then, not worth it..

[JustAnEngineer]

Your first monitor can use DVI. Your second one can use either DVI or HDMI. Monitors three and four must use DisplayPort.

If your monitors lack a DisplayPort input, you can use an active mini-DisplayPort to DVI adapter.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812200944

Note that the single-link DVI adapters are only good up to 1920x1200. If your monitor has a higher resolution, you'll need a more expensive dual-link DVI adapter.

[Tharbad]

1) Not sure why you're even considering SSD caching. With a 128GB SSD you should be installing the OS on it which will be much faster than using caching.

I want to cache the black cavier. I'm going to install my games on that HDD. the OS will run from SSD.

2) The 7770 and 7850 are hardly similar in terms of performance. It looks like you'll be doing eyefinity gaming? If so a 7950 with 3GB of memory should offer a decent amount of mulit-monitor gaming longevity for around $360.

It's appears the the recent price decline hasn't made it to the local stores yet...

3) If you're interested in quietness, you should be looking at ASUS boards as they offer by far the best fan controls of any manufacturer.

I usually connect fans directly to the power supply so they'll run at max speed. 20dba or lower is fine for me and Noctua NF-P14-FLX is only 18dba.
When the system is working hard, it usually in games. In that case I'm using headphones, so any value bellow 35dba is OK.

4) Yes the 3770K will overclock to around 4.5GHz without any voltage increase. The performance gains by having HT vary depending on what task you are performing. Make sure the difference is significant before you spend $200 more for it as opposed to a 3570K. (Ed. Have a glance through this article. You won't see any difference in gaming)

I want to overclock a little. Also I want to use VMware. For VMs, 8 cores are better than 4 (even with HT) but the VT-d is also important.
If it possible to overclock the normal 3770 it will be better for me. Is it possible?

5) You wont keep a 3750K or 3770K at 40c under full load even with water if the ambient temp is 30c.

45c is possible?

6) Are you REALLY into overclocking? If not, the performance difference between 2133MHz and 1600MHz RAM is only about 4% or less in many cases.

Only 4%?! I thought that the performance gain will be linear...
In that case i have the following options:
1) Corsair Vengeance 2 channels. - 141$
2) Corsair Vengeance 4 channels - 141$
As I remember only SB-E has 4 channel DDR. the IB has only 2, right?
3) G.Skill SNIPER - 151$
4) G.Skill RipjawsZ - 150$
All of them are 4x4GB with 9-9-9-24 timings.
And 2 2x8GB 9-9-9-24:
5) G.Skill Ripjaws-X - 151$
6) G.Skill Ares - 151$

I'd go with Seasonic X-760, or X-series in general, probably best you can get for a price that is still reasonable.

You're saying it because of the 80+ Gold and all the certifications or something else?

Your first monitor can use DVI. Your second one can use either DVI or HDMI. Monitors three and four must use DisplayPort.

If your monitors lack a DisplayPort input, you can use an active mini-DisplayPort to DVI adapter.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6812200944

Note that the single-link DVI adapters are only good up to 1920x1200. If your monitor has a higher resolution, you'll need a more expensive dual-link DVI adapter.

The mini DP version is not sold here. I found one seller at eBay that charges 48$. But the cable length is only 18cm so I'll need an extension cable. Is it possible to use an extension cable with the active cable?

[JustAnEngineer]

You can just plug your regular DVI cable into the mini-DisplayPort to DVI active adapter.

[Bensam123]

Some important notes.

You don't need an amazing cooler if you don't plan to overclock. Pretty much any of the big radiator type coolers are adequate for low noise levels. There isn't a huge concern as far as how hot they get. I've seen mine around 55c and that's normal (i7 -820). Even if it starts overheating, which it wont with the stock heatsink unless you're building a mini-itx system with absolutely zero airflow, it will clock down the CPU. Spending $100 on a cooler is a waste IMHO.

CPUs now days are a lot more effecient then they used to be and heatsinks now days are a lot better then they used to be as well. Cooling is past it's prime unless you're overclocking like I said.

You don't really need to use Intels smart caching thing. Just get a good SSD

Get 2x8GB dimms so you have room to expand in the future. Almost all memory is made the same, unless you're overclocking it. Really expensive memory doesn't make it better.

Radeons only support two monitors at the same time. If you want to use three or more, each additional monitor after needs an active display port adapter. They're about $30-$40 a piece. You can find these on Amazon. This was present in the 5XXX, 6XXX, and 7XXX series. I don't know if it'll be that way for future graphics cards. Displayport can be converted to DVI or HDMI with cheap adapters, also found on Amazon.

7950 is a pretty good price point or the 7870, I suggest looking at the articles on the front page if you need help deciding on this.

You don't need a ultra-uber-mega-overpowered PSU. A 500w PSU from a good reputable company would be good enough for such a setup. If you're doing crossfire or sli you probably want around 700w. Get one that is 80+ gold with active PFC.

[End User]

You don't need VT-d to run a VM. All you really need is VT-x (which is a feature of the 3770K). You do need VT-d if you want to directly assign hardware to a VM:

I/O MMU virtualization (AMD-Vi and VT-d)
"An input/output memory management unit (IOMMU) enables guest virtual machines to directly use peripheral devices, such as Ethernet, accelerated graphics cards, and hard-drive controllers, through DMA and interrupt remapping. This is sometimes called PCI passthrough."
source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT-d#I.2FO ... nd_VT-d.29

[Tharbad]

Some important notes.

You don't need an amazing cooler if you don't plan to overclock. Pretty much any of the big radiator type coolers are adequate for low noise levels. There isn't a huge concern as far as how hot they get. I've seen mine around 55c and that's normal (i7 -820). Even if it starts overheating, which it wont with the stock heatsink unless you're building a mini-itx system with absolutely zero airflow, it will clock down the CPU. Spending $100 on a cooler is a waste IMHO.

CPUs now days are a lot more effecient then they used to be and heatsinks now days are a lot better then they used to be as well. Cooling is past it's prime unless you're overclocking like I said.

I want to overclock, but just a little (to 4GHz). Is it worth it?

You don't really need to use Intels smart caching thing. Just get a good SSD

I'll use a SSD for the OS but my games will be installed on a black cavier. I thought that if I'll add SSD caching for the cavier, I'll get better performance for games. As it appears from recent replies I may be wrong. So for that specific use of SRT, I'll get any benefit?

Get 2x8GB dimms so you have room to expand in the future. Almost all memory is made the same, unless you're overclocking it. Really expensive memory doesn't make it better.

OK. So should I chose the Ripjaws X or the Ares?

Radeons only support two monitors at the same time. If you want to use three or more, each additional monitor after needs an active display port adapter. They're about $30-$40 a piece. You can find these on Amazon. This was present in the 5XXX, 6XXX, and 7XXX series. I don't know if it'll be that way for future graphics cards. Displayport can be converted to DVI or HDMI with cheap adapters, also found on Amazon.

7950 is a pretty good price point or the 7870, I suggest looking at the articles on the front page if you need help deciding on this.

I'll check this. But the price is quiet the same so I'll assume 7950 currently.

You don't need a ultra-uber-mega-overpowered PSU. A 500w PSU from a good reputable company would be good enough for such a setup. If you're doing crossfire or sli you probably want around 700w. Get one that is 80+ gold with active PFC.

This is a question that I cant answer. Based on the recent replies I think I'll take one 7950 or 7870 now and another one next year when the price fall.
For better Crossfire, I need the same model?

You don't need VT-d to run a VM. All you really need is VT-x (which is a feature of the 3770K). You do need VT-d if you want to directly assign hardware to a VM:

I/O MMU virtualization (AMD-Vi and VT-d)
"An input/output memory management unit (IOMMU) enables guest virtual machines to directly use peripheral devices, such as Ethernet, accelerated graphics cards, and hard-drive controllers, through DMA and interrupt remapping. This is sometimes called PCI passthrough."
source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT-d#I.2FO ... nd_VT-d.29

Then I'm going for the K. Thanks.

You can just plug your regular DVI cable into the mini-DisplayPort to DVI active adapter.

Thanks

[DPete27]

Use a power supply calculator to determine the recommended wattage of your system. Make sure you input for things that you may be planning down the road also (ie crossfire). The recommended wattage is roughly twice what your actual system will draw. Thats because PSU's are most efficient at/around 50% load. I'm getting around 550W recommended for dual 7950's and an i7-3770K.

My understanding is that multi-monitor setups benefit from more graphics memory and additional memory bandwidth. Hence going with a 7950 with 3GB of 384-bit GDDR5 would be advantageous over 2GB of 256-bit.

I'll second Bensam that water cooling isn't worth it. Sure you get an extra 5C of cooling and they look neat, but you have to consider the dangers of leaks and such. An air cooler will never destroy your computer. I recommend getting a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO for $35 (look at all the 5 star reviews!!!)

As far as I know, ssd caching only applies to the hard drive which has the OS installed.

You're being counter-intuitive with your cooling mindset. If you want a quiet system, you can certainly buy low fixed rpm fans and run them at 100%. But if you want the cooling performance you're talking about, you need fans that can spin up when the system gets hot under load. Then while you're playing games with your headphones on, your fans can spin up and keep the system nice and cool and return to silent when you're done.

Perhaps someone else can chime in to the necessity of 8 threads as opposed to 4 for VMs. That's not my area of expertise, but I thought storage throughput and have enough memory were more important than how many CPU cores you had. It just sounds to me like you're going with unnecessary overkill for your needs with almost everything in this build.

[glacius555]

I'd go with Seasonic X-760, or X-series in general, probably best you can get for a price that is still reasonable.

You're saying it because of the 80+ Gold and all the certifications or something else?

I'm saying it because of the Seasonic's impeccable reputation - best components, highest build quality and long warranty. Basically, I am recommending something that is unlikely to fail in the long run, along with having enough and extra juice for whatever you may throw at it. Actually, I'd go with Corsair AX750 instead, it is based on the same platform and has 7-year warranty.

If it was me, I'd buy SeaSonic Platinum-860 for $189 on newegg TODAY, last day when it is down from $219. This series is what sets the highest level of quality at the moment, 7-year warranty.

Make no mistake, these are the units reviewers of power supplies would probably use themselves.

[JustAnEngineer]

Radeons only support two monitors at the same time.

Not so.

With the Radeon 7xxx series, you get:
one dual-link DVI port
one single-link DVI port or one HDMI 1.4a port (only one of these can be in use at a time)
two or more mini-DisplayPort 1.2 ports (these can support active hubs to split to even more monitors)

The simplest solution by far is to purchase a good monitor with DisplayPort inputs (like the Dell UltraSharp U2410, U2711 or U3011), but active adapters will work with DVI or HDMI.

[glacius555]

Use a power supply calculator to determine the recommended wattage of your system. Make sure you input for things that you may be planning down the road also (ie crossfire). The recommended wattage is roughly twice what your actual system will draw. Thats because PSU's are most efficient at/around 50% load. I'm getting around 550W recommended for dual 7950's and an i7-3770K.

Not really. Reviews I am seeing show that units he wanna buy show efficiency above 80% at any load.

[Tharbad]

Use a power supply calculator to determine the recommended wattage of your system. Make sure you input for things that you may be planning down the road also (ie crossfire). The recommended wattage is roughly twice what your actual system will draw. Thats because PSU's are most efficient at/around 50% load. I'm getting around 550W recommended for dual 7950's and an i7-3770K.

My understanding is that multi-monitor setups benefit from more graphics memory and additional memory bandwidth. Hence going with a 7950 with 3GB of 384-bit GDDR5 would be advantageous over 2GB of 256-bit.

I'll second Bensam that water cooling isn't worth it. Sure you get an extra 5C of cooling and they look neat, but you have to consider the dangers of leaks and such. An air cooler will never destroy your computer. I recommend getting a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO for $35 (look at all the 5 star reviews!!!)

OK, Then with the Evo I'll be able to overclock to 4Ghz with out burning the system?

As far as I know, ssd caching only applies to the hard drive which has the OS installed.

Good to know.

You're being counter-intuitive with your cooling mindset. If you want a quiet system, you can certainly buy low fixed rpm fans and run them at 100%. But if you want the cooling performance you're talking about, you need fans that can spin up when the system gets hot under load. Then while you're playing games with your headphones on, your fans can spin up and keep the system nice and cool and return to silent when you're done.

Noctua fans aren't good enough?

Perhaps someone else can chime in to the necessity of 8 threads as opposed to 4 for VMs. That's not my area of expertise, but I thought storage throughput and have enough memory were more important than how many CPU cores you had.

VMware secondary purpose of this machine. It will be used as a VMware server only in 4 years or so.
So basically I've 2 options: Buy the 3770k now or buy a 8 Threads in 2-3 years CPU later.
If I'm buying later, I'll go now with the 3570k.
But maybe, In 4 years I'll have enough money to buy new VM server so I won't need to use my old computer (As I'm going to use the current for the same purpose)...

There is too much maybe in the last sentence...

It just sounds to me like you're going with unnecessary overkill for your needs with almost everything in this build.

That usually what happens when you try to build your dream config...

I'd go with Seasonic X-760, or X-series in general, probably best you can get for a price that is still reasonable.

You're saying it because of the 80+ Gold and all the certifications or something else?

I'm saying it because of the Seasonic's impeccable reputation - best components, highest build quality and long warranty. Basically, I am recommending something that is unlikely to fail in the long run, along with having enough and extra juice for whatever you may throw at it. Actually, I'd go with Corsair AX750 instead, it is based on the same platform and has 7-year warranty.

If it was me, I'd buy SeaSonic Platinum-860 for $189 on newegg TODAY, last day when it is down from $219. This series is what sets the highest level of quality at the moment, 7-year warranty.

Make no mistake, these are the units reviewers of power supplies would probably use themselves.

The AX750 is not sold here. One day newegg will ship internationally...
The platinum-860 price tag is 282$ which is too much for me.

Use a power supply calculator to determine the recommended wattage of your system. Make sure you input for things that you may be planning down the road also (ie crossfire). The recommended wattage is roughly twice what your actual system will draw. Thats because PSU's are most efficient at/around 50% load. I'm getting around 550W recommended for dual 7950's and an i7-3770K.

Not really. Reviews I am seeing show that units he wanna buy show efficiency above 80% at any load.

The 80+ certification Check PSU at 20%, 50% and 100% load. The 80+ score (bronze, gold and so on) is determined by the 50% load.
I have no idea why they use 50% and not 75% like in servers...

[glacius555]

The 80+ certification Check PSU at 20%, 50% and 100% load. The 80+ score (bronze, gold and so on) is determined by the 50% load.
I have no idea why they use 50% and 75% like in servers...

No.. I am talking about real reviews..

Here, Seasonic X-760, scroll down for numbers in tables: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... 3&reid=235

[Bensam123]

Radeons only support two monitors at the same time.

Not so.

With the Radeon 7xxx series, you get:
one dual-link DVI port
one single-link DVI port or one HDMI 1.4a port (only one of these can be in use at a time)
two or more mini-DisplayPort 1.2 ports (these can support active hubs to split to even more monitors)

The simplest solution by far is to purchase a good monitor with DisplayPort inputs (like the Dell UltraSharp U2410, U2711 or U3011), but active adapters will work with DVI or HDMI.

You didn't read like the sentence after it before replying.

How many ports they have isn't equivalent to how many devices they can use at the same time. It's confusing and almost seems like AMD engineered it that way. Read the following:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technolo ... quirements

They call it Eyefinity, but it also applies to any configuration with more then two displays. I ran into this very same problem when trying to connect my HDTV to my 6970 (which had two displays already hooked up to it). I had to buy an active displayport adapter.

I want to overclock, but just a little (to 4GHz). Is it worth it?

I honestly can't answer that for you. Overclocking in my past experience hasn't been worth the headache associated with it unless you really enjoy doing it.

I'll use a SSD for the OS but my games will be installed on a black cavier. I thought that if I'll add SSD caching for the cavier, I'll get better performance for games. As it appears from recent replies I may be wrong. So for that specific use of SRT, I'll get any benefit?

It may give you better performance, I honestly don't know. There haven't been a whole lot of reviews on SRT.

OK. So should I chose the Ripjaws X or the Ares?

G.Skill makes good memory, so do a lot of other companies. Look at the reviews and decide for yourself. When picking between all the good memory makers you pretty much have the same chance to get bad memory.

This is a question that I cant answer. Based on the recent replies I think I'll take one 7950 or 7870 now and another one next year when the price fall.
For better Crossfire, I need the same model?

Yes you want an identical card for a Crossfire setup. If you're planning on it, which it sounds like, I would suggest going with a 700w PSU.

[JustAnEngineer]

Radeons only support two monitors at the same time.

Not so.

With the Radeon 7xxx series, you get:
one dual-link DVI port
one single-link DVI port or one HDMI 1.4a port (only one of these can be in use at a time)
two or more mini-DisplayPort 1.2 ports (these can support active hubs to split to even more monitors)

The simplest solution by far is to purchase a good monitor with DisplayPort inputs (like the Dell UltraSharp U2410, U2711 or U3011), but active adapters will work with DVI or HDMI.

You didn't read like the sentence after it before replying.

You followed up a blatantly false statement with some contradictory statements (which merely repeated what had been posted three messages prior to yours). I was trying to get the truth out there.

Requiring that you use DisplayPort for monitors 3, 4, (and 5 and 6 for those cards with more ports) is not the same thing as not supporting more than two monitors.

I suggested three high-quality IPS LCD monitors that include DisplayPort inputs and therefore require no active DisplayPort to DVI adapter. You can also find monitors for under $150 that include DisplayPort inputs.

[Tharbad]

I want to overclock, but just a little (to 4GHz). Is it worth it?

I honestly can't answer that for you. Overclocking in my past experience hasn't been worth the headache associated with it unless you really enjoy doing it.

[quote="Tharbad"]
This question was referring to the Liquid cooler...

[Chrispy_]

Just an FYI:

You will not run games realeased in four years time across 3 1080p monitors with a card bought today; People are moaning about stagnation of graphics in games because of consoles, but BF3 pushes the envelope and there will always be games that need more power.

Four years ago, the most powerful card you could get was a GTX280. Today, running BF3 on high details, that GTX280 would struggle to average 25fps on just one, average-looking 1080p screen. The words you are looking for are "choppy", "unplayable" and "depressing"

Buy the cheapest card that will handle todays games at today's resolutions and upgrade it when you NEED to. Doing anything else is a waste of your money, unless you consider "having a big e-peen" valuable;
That $650 GTX280 in the summer of 2008 was already slower than a $150 GTX460(768) a paltry two years later. That's a mere two years for $500 of depreciation, and two whole years of having a hot, noisy, power-guzzling, top-end GPU sitting in your PC when a G92 (9800GTX) would have done the same job for a third of the price.

[Tharbad]

Just an FYI:

You will not run games realeased in four years time across 3 1080p monitors with a card bought today; People are moaning about stagnation of graphics in games because of consoles, but BF3 pushes the envelope and there will always be games that need more power.

Four years ago, the most powerful card you could get was a GTX280. Today, running BF3 on high details, that GTX280 would struggle to average 25fps on just one, average-looking 1080p screen. The words you are looking for are "choppy", "unplayable" and "depressing"

Buy the cheapest card that will handle todays games at today's resolutions and upgrade it when you NEED to. Doing anything else is a waste of your money, unless you consider "having a big e-peen" valuable;
That $650 GTX280 in the summer of 2008 was already slower than a $150 GTX460(768) a paltry two years later. That's a mere two years for $500 of depreciation, and two whole years of having a hot, noisy, power-guzzling, top-end GPU sitting in your PC when a G92 (9800GTX) would have done the same job for a third of the price.

I know. In 4 years I won't use the high settings anymore... And when that time come, I'll know I need a new computer.

Currently I'm using the HD 5770. The card was Ok for the last 2.5 years. So I'm guessing that 2 7950 will be OK for ~4 years.

[integer]

OK. So should I chose the Ripjaws X or the Ares?

The main difference is that the Ares is Low Profile, while the Ripjaws X has heat spreaders that might be a problem for cooling setups with low clearance (same as Corsair Vengeance vs Vengeance LP).

Also, agree with DPete27 and Bensam123 who've suggested that there is not a lot of improvement beyond 1600 MHz on the Ivy Bridge platform. Here are a few benchmarks from Tom's on memory scaling.

[DPete27]

DPete27 wrote:Use a power supply calculator to determine the recommended wattage of your system. Make sure you input for things that you may be planning down the road also (ie crossfire). The recommended wattage is roughly twice what your actual system will draw. Thats because PSU's are most efficient at/around 50% load. I'm getting around 550W recommended for dual 7950's and an i7-3770K.Not really. Reviews I am seeing show that units he wanna buy show efficiency above 80% at any load.

What I said was that peak efficiency occurs around 50% load, which you can see in almost any anandtech PSU review. Shooting for 50% PSU load now also gives you a little reserve wattage in case of heavy usage or future unpredicted hardware additions.

You will not run games realeased in four years time across 3 1080p monitors with a card bought today

I think you're overexaggerating a bit. I would like to use the Radeon 4870 as an example. These cards launched in mid 2008 at $300 and are still plenty potent even by todays standards (they're now roughly equivalent to a 6770, but hey, point is you can still do some halfway decent gaming with a 4 year old card). With that being said, Tharbad, you have the right idea, and Chrispy is making a good point that you cannot expect to play games in 4 years at the same quality levels as you will today with the same card no matter what you buy. But I see that you recognize this as you're talking about a future crossfire setup.
New consoles will be released next year (to replace the 7+ year old hardware they're currently sporting) which will allow game developers to bump up detail and physics quality which will make it easier (more cost effective) for them to translate that into similar boosts in PC titles so we might see a significant jump in required gaming graphics power in the next 1-2 years. You also have to remember that there's always something better on the horizon and having the "best of the best" typically doesn't last long and oftentimes just makes a big hole in your pocket. (which is what I think Chrispy was trying to get across)

[glacius555]

DPete27 wrote:Use a power supply calculator to determine the recommended wattage of your system. Make sure you input for things that you may be planning down the road also (ie crossfire). The recommended wattage is roughly twice what your actual system will draw. Thats because PSU's are most efficient at/around 50% load. I'm getting around 550W recommended for dual 7950's and an i7-3770K.Not really. Reviews I am seeing show that units he wanna buy show efficiency above 80% at any load.

What I said was that peak efficiency occurs around 50% load, which you can see in almost any anandtech PSU review. Shooting for 50% PSU load now also gives you a little reserve wattage in case of heavy usage or future unpredicted hardware additions.

My misunderstanding then, I apologize. BTW, I only read Jonny Guru's reviews..

I would also suggest a low-profile RAM, I was really happy I bought that after seeing how there were less than 4 mm left, when I installed an aftermarket cooler. Of course, it may not matter if despite all the discussions, you go with water cooling..

[Tharbad]

OK. I have changed the configuration based on your replies.

About the RAM: It's appears that I was wrong and there are only 1333MHz 2x8GB DIMM so I'll use 4x4GB. Depending on the next question.

About the water cooling: The cooler is quieter than the Evo?

[KinCT]

Sorry, jumping in very late to the conversation.

Tharbad, sounds like you do VM's now, but perhaps on another (older?) PC? What I do in this regard is have 1 primary rig that I use for BOTH gaming and VM work. I just have my SSD split into 2 partitions - one for Win7, one for Win2k8R2. Obviously, I use the Win7 partition for the fun side of life (gaming, whatever) and the Win2k8R2 partition to run VMWare Server on. That way, my most powerful PC in the house does both jobs - really well. My current "PC/Server" is 25 months old - AMD 1090T (6 core), 16 GB RAM, 120 GB SSD (OSes), 2x 2 TB drives (RAID 0). I have a lot of VM images (different OSes, different software releases, different DBMSes). This is the route I take vs a dedicated "server". Usually, after 2 years, I "food chain" the PC to the other members of the family. Currently running elsewhere in the house are an Intel Q6600 box (8 GB RAM) and an Opteron "172.5" (an overclocked Opteron 165) with 4 GB RAM.

If your VMware usage is intensive and varied (like mine), RAM is absolutely key (having lots of VMs running at once), CPU threads is extremely important (more=better!), and disk capacity is also really important (e.g. keeping backups of VMs, just having a number of VMs out there).

Current primary rig is also used for Eyefinity - I have a 5870 in there with three IPS monitors (NEC Multisync EA231 WMi). I like Eyefinity a lot.... Even on the Win2k8 side, I use the three monitors to have many things running & showing at once.

[Tharbad]

Sorry, jumping in very late to the conversation.

Tharbad, sounds like you do VM's now, but perhaps on another (older?) PC? What I do in this regard is have 1 primary rig that I use for BOTH gaming and VM work. I just have my SSD split into 2 partitions - one for Win7, one for Win2k8R2. Obviously, I use the Win7 partition for the fun side of life (gaming, whatever) and the Win2k8R2 partition to run VMWare Server on. That way, my most powerful PC in the house does both jobs - really well. My current "PC/Server" is 25 months old - AMD 1090T (6 core), 16 GB RAM, 120 GB SSD (OSes), 2x 2 TB drives (RAID 0). I have a lot of VM images (different OSes, different software releases, different DBMSes). This is the route I take vs a dedicated "server". Usually, after 2 years, I "food chain" the PC to the other members of the family. Currently running elsewhere in the house are an Intel Q6600 box (8 GB RAM) and an Opteron "172.5" (an overclocked Opteron 165) with 4 GB RAM.

If your VMware usage is intensive and varied (like mine), RAM is absolutely key (having lots of VMs running at once), CPU threads is extremely important (more=better!), and disk capacity is also really important (e.g. keeping backups of VMs, just having a number of VMs out there).

Current primary rig is also used for Eyefinity - I have a 5870 in there with three IPS monitors (NEC Multisync EA231 WMi). I like Eyefinity a lot.... Even on the Win2k8 side, I use the three monitors to have many things running & showing at once.

I'm not VMware intensive like you. I run most of my tests on servers in my workplace (My best server is x3850X5 - 4x Xeon X7560 with 128GB RAM!).
Most of my home VMs are used for checking new programs on Win7 and 8, running old stuff on XP and exploring Linux (OpenSUSE, Mint, Ubuntu an so on).
I don't think that these uses will change in the next few years. I want to have a computer that can run few (up to 4 simultaneously) VMs with up to 3GB RAM each. No heavy DB jobs required.
My current PC is going for that purpose and I intend to the the same with the next one.
My current config is Phenom 2 x4 955, 8GB RAM. Target hypervisor is ESXi 5.
I hope that in 3-4 years I will be able to buy a new computer just for those VMs. But in case I won't, I'll use the one I'm going to buy now.

When I think on it again it's appears that if I'll continue to run my heavy test in my workplace the the 3570K is OK and if I don't than I'll need to buy a 2x Opteron 6200 (or its next gen) server. Therefore the 3570 will be OK for now (unless games will need 8 cores in the next 4 years).

[Chrispy_]

About the RAM: It's appears that I was wrong and there are only 1333MHz 2x8GB DIMM so I'll use 4x4GB.

You have a huge budget, so get 32GB of RAM (32GB at 4x 8GB 1333MHz CL9 is fine) The VM's will definitely benefit from more RAM instead of less, slightly-faster RAM.
For gaming the bottleneck is never RAM speed, it is almost always down to the graphics card.

About the water cooling: The cooler is quieter than the Evo?

Don't worry about the Evo being noisy. Any graphics card you're looking at is GUARANTEED to be noisier than the Evo, so you won't ever hear it.

Watercooling can be quieter if you get large radiators and slow fans;
The one you picked is not one of these though - it is a single 120mm radiatior so it will be about the same noise as a 120mm air cooler.
Also, in addition to the fan noise is pump noise, which can make your PC sound a little bit like a small fishtank or fridge.