Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

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Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:42 pm

-I have this question posted on multiple forums so bare with me here as my replies will be much slower.
-AS FOR THE PEOPLE recommending me WC I honestly feel intimidated by it. I chose an air cooling case but I still am not sure to choose a water cooling enabled one since I am not positive if I go WC in the future.
-I will order from mostly canadian sites but will order from other places if necessary. The preferred retailer list I posted isn't that vital.

UNAVAILABLE ON NEWEGG CANADA:

Monitor: Dell UltraSharp U2312HM
CPU HSF: Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E
Headphones: Sennheiser PC 350 or 360
Tablet: Wacom Bamboo Splash

This is my first build from scratch my gaming orientation leans on rpgs, mmos, action-adventure and rts for the most part and less so for fps and racing games.

Approximate Purchase Date:
By the end of July
Budget Range:
Under $3k subtotal including everything base system, monitor, peripherals etc…
System Usage from Most to Least Important:
Extensive gaming and production/rendering in autodesk and other 3D/CG art software
Parts Not Required:
Not planning on getting a custom water cooling system just yet
Preferred Website(s) for Parts:
Newegg Canada
TigerDirect Canada
Canada Computers
NCIX
Country:
Canada
Parts Preferences:
Nvidia, visuals for the most part
Storage Space:
2TB minimum
Overclocking:
Likely
SLI or Crossfire:
Possibly SLI
Monitor Resolution:
1920x1080 or 2560x1440. I would like to have games on maxed settings, AA would be nice and what ever gaming technology optimization available
Additional Comments:
my newegg wishlist

anything sold out on the list i will look for else where, as long as they have good enough return policy

Really looking for some of the top and latest support with longevity, durability and silence

the rig would be placed in the basement which is usually around 20C, during the humid summer it should be closer to 30C room temp but we almost always AC then. the only thing about the basement i am worried about is if airflow wouldn't be good enough for the rig

would a heatsink fan suffice for now? if i ever choose to SLI would water cooling be needed then?
Last edited by TBGAPowa on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:17 am, edited 7 times in total.
Intel Core i7 3770k / Asus P8Z77-V / Asus Direct CUII GTX 670 / G. Skill Ares 1600 16GB (2x8) / Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB / Samsung 830 256GB / ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24x DVD-Writer / Noctua NH-D14 / Corsair AX850 / NZXT Switch 810 Gunmetal
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoted from a member named lehpron from the EVGA forums "But, in order to maintain your CPU stabilty; your RAM, HDD, motherboard, PSU, etc all have to be in sync and stable too. So while the CPU could theoretically take the punishment, total system stability depends on the other junk in the system."
How Long Before Failure ?

i hope the hhds would suffice, they do get great ratings i believe the others are good enough.

is 16 gb RAM 1600 enough or should I go higher 1866/2133/2400?



what do you think think about this monitor?

Yamakasi Catleap 27" LED 2560x1440 WQHD S-IPS
Intel Core i7 3770k / Asus P8Z77-V / Asus Direct CUII GTX 670 / G. Skill Ares 1600 16GB (2x8) / Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB / Samsung 830 256GB / ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24x DVD-Writer / Noctua NH-D14 / Corsair AX850 / NZXT Switch 810 Gunmetal
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:41 pm

Wow, that's a pretty big budget for a gaming system. You could build a pretty nice one for around $1500... Around 3k you could do eyefinity over three monitors on a crossfire setup. I'm sure there are people around here that are willing to price it out. If you have money to burn, that's cool, just be aware after you get past a certain threshold the amount of money you throw at a gaming setup makes it incrementally better and may be not even percievably better.

You could build three normal gaming computers for that price and have friends over to play games on the weekend or whatever. Mini-lans are hellah fun.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:43 pm

Welcome to the Tech Report!

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 Advanced RC-932-KKN5-GP Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case with USB 3.0, Black Interior and Four Fans-1x ...
That's a big and expensive case. Something like the Antec Three Hundred would get the job done for much less money.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K
Sandy Bridge E + X79 is much more expensive than Ivy Bridge + Z77 and you don't get any more gaming performance for the extra cost. Consider the Core i5-3570K and an Asus P8Z77-V LK as a quick way to save several hundred dollars.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: EVGA 04G-P4-2673-KR GeForce GTX 670 Superclocked+ w/Backplate 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ...
CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX750 (CMPSU-750AX) 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active ...
That's a nice but expensive power supply. An Antec EarthWatts EA-650D would work just fine.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B
Consider 2x8 GiB instead of 4x4 GiB.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Where's your SSD? Use a 128 or 256 GB Samsung 830 SSD as your system drive.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: WACOM Intuos Touch 5 PTH850 12.80" x 8" Active Area USB Large Pen Tablet
Microsoft SIDEWINDER X4 Keyboard
ASUS VS229H-P Black 21.5" 5ms (GTG) HDMI IPS-Panel LED-Backlit Widescreen LCD Monitor
Logitech G35 USB 2.0 Connector Surround Sound Headset
So-called "5.1 surround" headsets are a completely useless gimmick. You would get much better sound quality with a good set of stereo headphones. For gaming, I like the Sennheiser PC151 headset's swing-away microphone.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: Logitech G500 10 Buttons Dual-mode Scroll Wheel USB Wired Laser Gaming Mouse
BELKIN F8E081-BLU Standard Mouse Pad
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
Have you considered Blu-ray?

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM
If you want to use more than 16 GiB of RAM, you'll need to upgrade to the Professional or Ultimate versions.

TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler
EPSON Perfection V33 B11B200201 USB Interface Flatbed Scanner
i7-4770K, H70, Gryphon Z87, 16 GiB, R9-290, SSD, 2 HD, Blu-ray, SB ZX, TJ08-E, SS-660XP², 3007WFP+2001FP, RK-9000BR, MX518
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:41 pm

TBGAPowa wrote:Budget Range:
Under $3k subtotal including everything base system, peripherals etc…
System Usage from Most to Least Important:
Extensive gaming and production/rendering in autodesk and other 3D/CG art software. i will probably be running quite a few applications at the same time including the art applications and/or games with the browser and some extra editing tools and would like for it to run silky smooth in the process

This looks like a combined gaming and art production rig, so you are dipping into semi-professional category. If you are making money off this, then here are my suggestions:
- stability so forget OC (may be after extensive testing) and can forget liquid cooling, get a good air HSF and you should be good to go
- i7 K for 8-threads
- 16 gigs minimum (2x8GiB sticks), if your usage will be more than definitely entertain more, this means at least Windows 7 Professional as well
- First tier storage 128GB SSD minimum for OS+apps, 160-256 will give you more breathing room
- Mechanical/mass storage: multiple 1-3TB drives, 5400/7200/10k rpm's, depending on access speed required (like if you have super large media files to be accessed by your production apps)
- monitor: while a single 27" is nice, but productivity wise it does not beat multiple monitors, I'm not handy right now to punch some numbers, but ROI wise 2x24" will give you quite a bit more screen to work with. 2x27" is of course nicer, or 1x30"+1x24"? (all depends on budget and whether you want symmetry)
- SB-E may look more "professional", but IMO not worth it. Your money is better spent in getting more RAM, SSDs, monitors, and may be even real 5.1 speakers.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:00 pm

direct quote from member lehpron from the EVGA forums, sorry its huge but this sums up why i chose the type of mobo, GPU and CPU. but of course still subject to change

"Most modern games are threaded for between 2-4 cores, and it has been a slow progress adoption since quads have been around for six years, duals for eight years. meaning, a 6-core won't make a difference today. New games take 2-3 years to make from the ground up, so in that time, it will make a quad that much more important. Only get the 6-core for your professional work, not for gaming.

3770K is a 22nm quad and half the die area (thus half the actual power and thermals if set at the same frequency) as 32nm i7-3900's 6-cores; mathematically, they should overclock better, but Intel differed from tradition of soddering the CPU die to the IHS (integrated heat spreader) by using a thermal grease with Ivy Bridge which tends to artificially raise temperaturess. This prevents anyone from really being able to push it except for those using cryogenics; so in the end, all Sandy and Ivy processors reach a max of approx 5GHz regardless of number of cores.

So it all comes down to the board really; X79 can support up to 4-way SLI (in quad x8, or a pair of full x16) configs while Z77 is limited to just dual x8's. If you're serious about longitivity in terms of having the room for future graphics cards and not change the board (which definitely need more bandwidth than current), then X79 is the only option. For CPU, either get quad 3820 or 6-core 3930K depending on how often your professional uses need 12-threads or not.

BTW, as for the GTX670's, get the 4GB card. We'll soon see a new standard for mainstream monitors that used to be the reign of medicial professionals, their total single display res equals to a modern multi-display setup. So if you intend on at least one in the next two years and not upgrading graphics for it, then you should plan ahead with a 4GB model and get 3-way SLI by then to compensate.

TBGAPowa

Really looking for longevity and durability I chose a gtx 670 in hopes of being able to run graphic intensive art programs and gaming on high settings for at least two years before upgrade/new build.
This part will require an edit for realism.

In two years, a pair of GTX670 will have the performance equivalency of a future mainstream card (i.e. "GTS850" )and unable to run those games appearing then at high details without having the frame rates dip whatever is high-end at time. So either plan to get into 3-way or 4-way SLI (meaning you need to get a 4-way capable board in the first place, i.e. X79), think about upgrading your graphics card much earlier than two years, or settle for less visuals as times passes especially if you plan a higher resolution monitor someday. Most games are GPU-intensive, so if your resolution doubles the pixels, you cut your frame rates in half.

The only way you can truly have longivity is if your expectation is much lower than what is available for purchase. If you want max detail at smooth rates, then that is only possible today, it isn't possible next year with this year's configuration running next year's games. Just so you know, many folks on enthusiast websites like these upgrade often as a hobby, they choose to keep up with technology in order to maintain their preference level in every new game; I personally see it as a hassle. So you have to decide your upgrade tendencies beforehand and plan ahead, beyond this upcoming build. "

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?high ... =1#1650704
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:10 pm

Going through your wishlist...

COOLER MASTER HAF 932 Advanced
If you want go for silence, the P280 may be a good option. It's on sale right now too. (Though, to be honest, I don't really know cases that well, but a quick glance at Anand's review seems okay)
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... omoid=1048

JustAnEngineer wrote:
TBGAPowa's wish list wrote: ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K
Sandy Bridge E + X79 is much more expensive than Ivy Bridge + Z77 and you don't get any more gaming performance for the extra cost. Consider the Core i5-3570K and an Asus P8Z77-V LK as a quick way to save several hundred dollars.
Agreed. Better off pocketing the money and buying a few games.

EVGA 04G-P4-2673-KR GeForce GTX 670 Superclocked+
The GTX670 seems like a good card, but the Superclock+ you've listed might have a similar noise level to the Superclock in Anand's review (i.e. pretty noisy). Think it's because of the smaller blower fan they installed in the EVGA version.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5818/nvid ... at-evga/17

CORSAIR Professional Series Gold AX850
The AX850 is a nice PSU. Have you considered the Seasonic Platinum 860? It's $230 at NCIX without a sale, so who knows. It just might go down a little.
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=65746 ... lectronics

Western Digital Caviar Black WD2002FAEX 2TB
From my experience with the Caviar Black 1TB, it's noisy. I'm not sure how noisy the 2TB will be but I can't imagine it being much better. I would spend that money on a 256GB SSD and buy a cheap 2TB storage drive with your budget.

TBGAPowa wrote:is 16 gb RAM 1600 enough or should I go higher 1866/2133/2400?
Whether or not you need it will probably depend on your applications. Geoff wrote an article exploring that with Sandy here:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/20377

ASUS VS229H-P Black 21.5" 5ms
Ooh didn't know this was IPS, should be a nice budget IPS monitor, but if you're going for semi-pro applications where colour accuracy is important, I would definitely go for a larger, non-E-IPS display. Dell and HP may be more expensive, but they generally have better warranties than other manufacturers (Your link to the 27" monitor is gone, btw). If you're looking at it from the perspective of gaming, I've heard that TN panels are generally better.

Edit: Last comment on monitor seems weird. Changed "larger display" to "larger, non-E-IPS".
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:16 pm

Longevity in a gaming PC is a myth.

A $300 graphics card available three years from now will stomp on a $1000 card that you can buy today.

Buy what works well for a reasonable price now. The GeForce GTX670 that you selected is fine. Radeon HD7950 would also perform well. If you're going with a large multi-monitor gaming setup, then get a card with plenty of video memory.


The $570 Sandy Bridge-E CPU + $430 X79 motherboard that you selected will perform slightly WORSE in games than the $230 Ivy Bridge CPU + $145-20MIR Z77 motherboard that I suggested. If you want more threads for your professional applications, then an upgrade to the $350 hyper-threaded Core i7-3770K will still save you over $500 and provide better gaming performance than Sandy Bridge-E.

By the time that you need more processing performance, a new generation of better faster cheaper processors will be available.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:44 pm

If you are really looking at CG production + gaming rig, I would not go to evga.com for advice. Tricked out "gaming rig" is only part of your answer.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:48 pm

Asus P8Z77-V LK is this good enough for i7 3770k and sli?
Intel Core i7 3770k / Asus P8Z77-V / Asus Direct CUII GTX 670 / G. Skill Ares 1600 16GB (2x8) / Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB / Samsung 830 256GB / ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24x DVD-Writer / Noctua NH-D14 / Corsair AX850 / NZXT Switch 810 Gunmetal
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:19 pm

Yup, it is. You'll only be able to run two cards, and not three or four like you would with a SB-E mobo, though. But then who would spend $1500-2000 just on videocards?

Also, you 670 will likely be good enough to run almost anything this side of the more tech-demoish features in games like Battlefield or Metro 2033; when it'll be time to upgrade, you'll want to buy a totally new card anyway, not go dual-card, with all the problems it entails (heat, noise, game support, etc.)

If you plan of going for custom WC later, the Haf 932 might not be such a bad idea. Also consider the NZXT Switch. But if you nix the WC idea, consider cases like the Antec 302 (filters!) or the aforementioned P280 (not beloved of WC enthusiast, that one).
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:44 am

from the pureoverclock forum member Doctor_Death:

Skip the MS keyboard, and go eith the Corsair K90, also the Phanteks CPU coolers do out perform the D14. I'll tell you what, I have a brand new system that I built for Enermax with duel EVGA Classified GTX590s. I have the Gigabyte X79 UD7 installed, but if you perfer ASUS, I can swap it out for a new X79 Rampage 4 Formula. There's also a brand new Intel 3820, and a Lepa G1600 PSU. Blu-ray burner and a DVD burner, 16GBs of Geil 1600MHz, 240GB SSD and a WD 1TB drive. You can own this build for $1500 shipped

Here's a couple of photos, click to enlarge:

http://forums.pureoverclock.com/attachm ... ld-001.jpg
http://forums.pureoverclock.com/attachm ... ld-003.jpg


I can add a 3960X but not for $1500 lol if I switch out the UD7 and replace it with the Rampage 4 Formula, and add the 3960X I have to get at least $2200 which is still a hell of a deal. Just the Vision Tek Racer 240GB and the WD 1TB would set you back a little over $400, never mind the EVGA Classified GTX590s, beside the new GTX690s the 590's are still one of the fastest cards around.

http://forums.pureoverclock.com/general ... udget.html

what do you think?
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:47 am

Right now it seems like Western Digital is more expensive than everyone else. they are probably still hurting from the floods. You might want to look at getting two seagate or hitachi 2-3tb 7200 rpm drives for data and set them in a mirror. odds are if they are going to fail it will be early on and only one of them.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:36 pm

Are the headphones I listed nicely compatible with the soundcard? I wan't 7.1 surround and listen to music that is at mid range.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:12 pm

The headphones that you had on your wishlist have fake "5.1 surround." Any "surround" headphones are a gimmick that can only hurt your listening and gaming experience. What you want are a good pair of stereo headphones. Set your game to output for stereo headphones, and the correct time delays for positional audio will be sent to the drivers. The fake "surround" headphones create bizarre messed-up time delays since your game is trying to output sound with timings for speakers scattered around the room instead of ones that are mounted to your head.

Have you listened to something like the $96 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro headphones?
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/profession ... PRO_004974
For gaming, you'd need to add a lapel mic.
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:18 am

updated the list. switched to sabertooth z77 motherboard, can’t choose between the two headsets so if any audiophiles could voice their opinions that would be great and i am still planning on downgrading to a 120gb ssd instead but don’t know if i should go with the lower iOPS. I chose the creative card over asus ones as most gamers have mentioned better clarity for gaming and movies, for music asus ones are better certainly but i’m not that big on music. which GPU 670/80 do you guys recommend since i won’t be hardcore OCing
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Re: Advice & Suggestions on first build under $3k budget

Postposted on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:42 am

TBGAPowa wrote:can’t choose between the two headsets so if any audiophiles could voice their opinions that would be great

As it happens, I just picked up the HD280s that JAE recommended to you (discussion here) and would suggest something like that, along with a dedicated headphone amp (or at least a soundcard that specifies a dedicated headphone amp feature).
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