First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:09 am

QuickSilverD wrote:Here is the new build, tell me how it looks.

Looks pretty good, if you're certain you don't need/want Blu-Ray playback support. If you do, there are options that will do full CD/DVD burn support plus BRD playback starting around $50-60. Also, another option for your storage hard drive: Samsung SpinPoint F3. Right now the price difference is not that special versus the WD you already picked out, although the F3 1TB did briefly drop to $89 as recently as three weeks ago. The 256GB Crucial M4 and Samsung 830 have also been below $200 on brief sales the past couple months. Whenever you place your order, you might also do a quick price comparison on both of those.

Personally, I think you'll be happier with the air cooling solution. Liquid cooling doesn't change the amount of heat to be removed, it just tries to take it a different location where you can use a larger radiator and a slower fan. But the current crop of tower-style, heatpipe based coolers are basically doing that anyway, and the heatpipe is a completely sealed unit that doesn't fail unless deliberately abused.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:05 pm

Again I'll like to thanks everyone that has taken the time to read and reply, you all have been very useful. So far

Couple of thing I will do differntly: Will not invest in 3D right now, and will look into the mechanical keyboard idea. I also need recommendation for the monitors, right now I'm looking for 1080p monitors only, but I could be convince to go for a 3mp monitor if the prize is right, so make your sugesstions

Quoting for new page:
QuickSilverD wrote:Main Tower:

CPU --- Intel Core i5 3570K @ 3.4 ---- $215
CPU Cooler --- EVE 212 RR-212E-20PK-R2 --- $38
GPU --- EVGA GeForce GTX670 w/ 2GB GDDR5 --- $420
Sound Card ---XONAR DG --- $24
RAM --- Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4) --- $97
Motherboard --- Asus P8Z77-V LK --- $154
HDD --- Wester Digital Black 1TB--- $120
SSD --- Crusial 256GB --- $203
DVD drive --- Asus 24x DVD-RW Seal ATA --- $23
Wifi Card --- 300Mbps Lan 802.11 n/g/b PCI card --- $20
Ethernet Card --- TP-Link NT TG-3468 32-bit Gigabit--- $13
Power Supply --- Corsair 650w 80 plus bronze CMPSU-650TXV2--- $90
Case --- Cooler Master HAF 912 Mid Tower ATX case--- $60

Total for Main Tower: U$D 1,480.00

Software

Windows 7 Home Premiun --- $170

Total for Software: U$D 170.00

External Hardware:

Keyboard & Mouse --- Microsoft Natual Ergonomic Desktop 7000 --- $95

Monitors budget: $600
Hopefully I could buy a couple decent monitors with that.

Speakers/Headset budget: $100
I take recommendations

Total for External Hardware: U$D 800.00

Total price for Everything: USD 2,450.00

dd
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:30 pm

travbrad wrote: You don't necessarily have to spend more to get a good pair of headphones. You can get headphones that will sound better than the logitech "surround" headphones for less money actually. You'll get a huge variety of opinions if you ask which headphones are the best, but this and this are good starting points. For a closed-ear headphone I really like the Sennheiser HD280PRO. They sound great and are very durable. The Sony MDR7506 sounded good when I tried them too. For an open ear headphone the Grado SR60i and SR80i are regarded as really good headphones, although they aren't the most comfortable or durable headphones around (probably not ideal for long gaming sessions)
I owned the Sony set and they were extremely comfortable to wear but they sounded a bit bright.


QuickSilverD wrote: Sound Card ---XONAR DG --- $24

PCI is dead. If you're going to buy a new expansion card in this decade, it should probably plug into a PCI-Express slot instead of an obsolete PCI slot. The last couple of motherboards that I've purchased don't even have any PCI slots.
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QuickSilverD wrote: Wifi Card --- 300Mbps Lan 802.11 n/g/b PCI card --- $20

The same thing applies for network cards. PCI is dead. PCIe or USB are the way to go.
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-4965AGN-PCI ... 005KF16WQ/
http://www.amazon.com/Protronix%C2%AE-3 ... 005J6FVGI/
http://www.amazon.com/Encore-Network-EN ... 0065SP8TY/
http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Network- ... 006GTX5RE/
http://www.amazon.com/Atheros-AR9280-AR ... 0062VCL80/
http://www.amazon.com/PCE-N15-performan ... 0054L9PWO/
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:39 pm

Someone mentioned Razer a few posts ago; I'd like to put in a strong negative for Razer. I have a Razer Lachesis and it is failing after a few years. I realise that this sort of device can't last forever and I make a lot of use of it, but I am still disappointed. It was expensive and definitely will not be replaced with another Razer device.

I have a hard time buying mice, because I am left handed and I want something that isn't designed to be difficult for me to use. Razer provides a lot of ambidextrous devices, but I can't recommend it. From what I understand they used to have better quality control and that has lapsed now. Go with something else.

If it is a small price increase to work up to getting two sticks of RAM for 16GB rather than four, then I agree that it is worth it. You never know what you might want to add in the future; if it adds a lot then don't worry about it too much.

I shouldn't bother with the Ethernet card.

How well will that case deal with the sorts of components that you are putting in it?

I also second no plain PCI; it has to be PCIe now.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:15 pm

theadder wrote:I'd like to put in a strong negative for Razer.
I got a great deal on a Razer Imperator seven months ago that I gave to a family member. It feels even better than my Logitech MX518. I don't know yet if it will have the longevity that my Logitech mice have had.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:01 pm

Why not just buy this config?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/23204/6

I promise you you'll be happy with it.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:08 am

Thanks everyone that has been replying, because of you, now I feel much better about this build:

QuickSilverD wrote:Main Tower:

CPU --- Intel Core i5 3570K @ 3.4 ---- $215
CPU Cooler --- EVE 212 RR-212E-20PK-R2 --- $38
GPU --- EVGA GeForce GTX670 w/ 2GB GDDR5 --- $420
Sound Card ---XONAR DG --- $24
RAM --- Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4) --- $97
Motherboard --- Asus P8Z77-V LK --- $154
HDD --- Wester Digital Black 1TB--- $120
SSD --- Crusial 256GB --- $203
DVD drive --- Asus 24x DVD-RW Seal ATA --- $23
Wifi Card --- 300Mbps Lan 802.11 n/g/b PCI card --- $20
Power Supply --- Corsair 650w 80 plus bronze CMPSU-650TXV2--- $90
Case --- Cooler Master HAF 912 Mid Tower ATX case--- $60
Windows 7 Home Premiun --- $170

Total for Main Tower: U$D 1,640.00


That leaves me with about USD 860.00 for everything else (I'm not ignoring shipping & handling, I just have a different $200 buffer for that). So now Monitors, Keyboard and mouse. Keep in mind that when it comes to these components that I am not as savy, so I ask that you guide me and critic my selection.

Corsair Vengeance K60 --- $100
Was reading some reviews, among those the one for this piece which indicates to me that this one will be a good gaming keyboard. Care to argue against if you have had some bad experiences with this product.

Razer Imperator 2012 Expert Ergonomic Gaming Mouse --- $70
I will admit that part of the reason I'm thinking about selecting this gaming mouse is because it looks pretty in pictures, but it was also talked about here before.

Monitors
Remember I want two of these and by this point I have just $600 dollars left, so I hope we can find something to suit me. I wouldn't like to settle for a good and a cheap but bad monitor just to keep on budget, so Worse case scenario I only buy a good and expensive one, then later down the line I buy another, probably equally good.

So, here is an Amazon search with all the parameters I want

Full HD, Energy Star, 24" to 30", IPS.

I'm not sure about "Energy Star" certification, but I like the idea of devises that do not consume too much power.

So are any of those any good?
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:19 am

@Keyboard
I'd recommend Tenkeyless design from Filco or Happy Hacking. Choose according to taste but be ware of what switches you get
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php? ... tenkeyless
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_ ... less&ajr=0

If you don't know the difference between the different types of mechanical switches i'd recommend reading the following article:
http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mecha ... oard-guide

@Mouse
Steelseries Sensei or Xai
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... nics%2C296
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... ies+sensei
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:15 am

Talk about luck...I was not expecting a new system guide just yet, but it looks like they nailed your needs.

For your kayboard, there are tons of choices. What features do you want? Macro keys? USB ports? I would start with those questions to judge your keyboards. If you're good with a board that basically just types, you can check up on IBM clones (linked in the system guide) or Das Keyboard. Those tend to get glowing reviews, especially around here. On the other hand, Corsasir's K90 has macro keys, as do Razer's Blackwidow models. The really nice thing about keyboards is that you can get pretty much anything you want (for a price, of course).

Same is true for mice. If you're mainly doing FPS stuff, looks like the Imperator is pretty solid. Again, just make sure you have the features you want on it.

Now for monitors, Energy Star is a nice thing, but if you're like me, you'll shut off your monitors when going away, even if you leave your computer fully on. And if you really have a $600 budget for a monitor, focus on getting one really nice one and seeing what you have left. Monitors aren't going to gimp your system, and you can add many more later.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:00 am

OEM Windows is fine, especially if you're considering upgrading to 8 when it's available. I wonder how many of the posters here have experience with upgrading a machine with OEM Windows on it? I do, and the one time I changed hardware so much that it complained, it was a 2 minute phone call to get a new activation code. $170 is almost twice what you'd pay for OEM Home Premium, which means you could buy another copy of Windows down the road if you wanted, and still have a legal copy for your current build.

And, SSD. If you don't have access to one, see the difference on a friend's. I have a 4-drive Caviar Black RAID 5 array, and it absolutely pales in comparison to the Vertex 3, especially as a boot drive. Had trouble originally, so installed OS on RAID 5, and when I finally reformatted and reinstalled Windows, I asked myself why I was such an idiot to wait as long as I did to switch. Literally 3 times as fast to be completely settled at Windows desktop.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:18 am

$600 is a lot for a screen budget. The Dell U2711 is one of the best IPS screens you can get, and it's usually available for about that price if you hunt around.
$300 per screen narrows your choices, at this price it's probably best to visit an actual store and compare some screens. There are definitely a few good IPS and E-IPS screens in this price range.

Personally, I would stump up the cash for the U2711.
I have cheated and imported a 27" Korean model using the same IPS panel as the glorious 27" apple iMac and Thunderbolt displays.
The compromises with that are: 1) No local warranty/support. 2) Up to four dead pixels is acceptable (I had one) 3) rubbish stand (I bought an aftermarket one instead).
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:49 pm

I am almost there. :)

I will make sure to choose PCIe cards instead of PCI, so thanks for the recommendations JustAnEngeneer.

Looks like my config looks a lot like the Editor's choice in the latest system guide, not surprising considering I had read their previous guides before. Anyway at this point I think all of the main Tower Hardware is set.

@Jason181, while the price of OEM version of Win7 sure sounds entising, I would rather just have the Full license, even if it cost twice as much, make sure it has support as well as making sure in the case that say my motherboard gets fried and I need to replace it that I have no problem.

@Arclight, Thank you for the suggestions I will consider them.

I have a question, I'm considering replacing the 1TB Black drive for the 2TB Green one, since they are close to the same price. My guess would be that for multimedia, even HD content, a Green drive should be fast enough, no? and since I'm including a 256GB SSD, where I can install the OS, programs and the games that I be actively playing, wouldn't that option be better to maximase the HDD space?

Still undesided if to buy a couple of decent monitor or a really good one, right now and then another good one some time later.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Yes. The Green drives will be fast enough for media.

On the other hand, you could get the 2TB Seagate, which is about the same price as the WD Green, but faster (should be close to the WD caviar black).

Personally, I would go for a single 27" monitor over 2x 24" IF you are using the computer primarily for gaming and media (movies, etc). However, if most of your time is going to be spent doing work, the 2x 24" might suit your needs better. If you want the Dell u2711, you'll want to wait for a sale though as it can be had frequently for around $700 or less. If you do go with a high MP monitor, you might also consider switching your video card to an HD7970 (here's one for $440, $409 after mail-in-rebate) and overclocking it to 1050 Mhz (same speed as the new GHz edition). The HD 7970 should be at least as fast, if not faster than an GTX 670 at higher resolutions, for most games. But I'm not sure about the 3D support with the Radeons.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:38 pm

The UltraSharp U2711 (27" 2560x1440 H-IPS LCD) was recently $779 without tax through Amazon:
http://slickdeals.net/f/4773298-Amazon- ... r-779-w-FS
It's now available again for that price through another supplier:
http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-U ... 0039648BO/

The UltraSharp U2412M (24" 1920x1200 e-IPS LCD) was recently $298 (currently $319) without tax through Amazon:
http://slickdeals.net/f/4801826-Dell-Ul ... -on-Amazon


QuickSilverD wrote: Razer Imperator 2012 Expert Ergonomic Gaming Mouse --- $70
I will admit that part of the reason I'm thinking about selecting this gaming mouse is because it looks pretty in pictures, but it was also talked about here before.
When I got the Imperator for $47 with free shipping in December, it was a great deal. At $70, it's looking a bit pricey. There are less expensive mice that could probably get the job done.
$20 or $24 Microsoft Comfort Mouse 4500
$36 Logitech G300
$45 Logitech G400

QuickSilverD wrote: Corsair Vengeance K60 --- $100
Was reading some reviews, among those the one for this piece which indicates to me that this one will be a good gaming keyboard. Care to argue against if you have had some bad experiences with this product.
Some of us like clicky keyboards like the $110 Rosewill RK-9000BR. Here's a $98 model that also uses the Cherry MX brown switches.

There are less expensive keyboards that could probably get the job done.
$18 Microsoft Keyboard 400
$17 Microsoft Keyboard 600
$18 Logitech K120
$26 Logitech K200
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:04 pm

I really appreciate that you take time to make these suggestions, I do, so Thank you.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:39 pm

Since 3d requires 120 hz, does anyone know if you can run different monitors at different refresh rates? If not, they both need to be 120 hz. This is actually a question that I've had personally since I have a 120 hz primary monitor and wouldn't mind a second (non-gaming) monitor.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:50 pm

There shouldn't be any problem mixing refresh rates. I don't have a suitable monitor here to test 120 Hz myself, but I can easily use 75 Hz and 60 Hz simultaneously.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:16 am

Jason181 wrote:Since 3d requires 120 hz, does anyone know if you can run different monitors at different refresh rates? If not, they both need to be 120 hz. This is actually a question that I've had personally since I have a 120 hz primary monitor and wouldn't mind a second (non-gaming) monitor.

That is not true. Many 3D displays work this way, but not all. Differing refresh rates is not a problem.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:16 am

Thanks for the reply. The nvidia 3dvision does require 120hz afaik. Also came here to post that the Crucial M4 128 GB ssd is on sale for $120 free shipping with code EMCYTZT1851 at newegg if the OP is interested.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:58 pm

QuickSilverD wrote:That leaves me with about USD 860.00 for everything else (I'm not ignoring shipping & handling, I just have a different $200 buffer for that). So now Monitors, Keyboard and mouse. Keep in mind that when it comes to these components that I am not as savy, so I ask that you guide me and critic my selection.


I noticed that you mention a $200 delivery budget for this. Do you have the option of using Prime where you are? I notice that a lot of the items that you have linked are from Amazon; it's worth making use of this if you can. You could cut that down number down a lot. Perhaps you are outside the USA/UK.

I didn't buy it for this machine, but from what I've read I second the IPS monitor recommendation. That seems best for now; it is what I will be buying at my next monitor replacement.

I'd also put in a word for a main screen and a smaller adjunct monitor, if you don't want two very large monitors. It depends on your usage pattern, but that fits the way that I use my PC rather well. I can put IRC on it or some other useful source of information while I do other things with the main 24" screen. I've never cared much for the way that Windows makes you divide the screen if you want to use multiple programs at once; I've always kept windows maximised while I'm using them. I currently have a 17" monitor on the side, and if the GPU could drive them all at once, I would probably have two.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:51 pm

theadder wrote:I noticed that you mention a $200 delivery budget for this. Do you have the option of using Prime where you are? I notice that a lot of the items that you have linked are from Amazon; it's worth making use of this if you can. You could cut that down number down a lot. Perhaps you are outside the USA/UK.
I am indeed outside the USA, I will be using a carrier service to deliver the items to me, they charge like 5 US dollars per pound, so I will need a big buffer.

The real problem is that where I am, most of these components are unavailable or ridiculously expensive, thankfully some of the heavier ones like the case and Power Supply can be found around here, so there is that.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:00 pm

Regarding keyboards- Razer just started selling their Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth from their store, which combines MX Browns (tactile non-clicky) with back-lighting, NKRO, a matte finish, and a USB, mic, and headphone pass-through. The pass-through ports work extremely well, except for being placed on the right edge.

I have the MX Blue-based Ultimate, and I'd love to have a decent MX Brown variant, even if it comes from Razer, and I can live with the blue back-lighting, though I'd prefer white.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Regarding keyboards- Razer just started selling their Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth from their store, which combines MX Browns (tactile non-clicky) with back-lighting, NKRO, a matte finish, and a USB, mic, and headphone pass-through. The pass-through ports work extremely well, except for being placed on the right edge.

I have the MX Blue-based Ultimate, and I'd love to have a decent MX Brown variant, even if it comes from Razer, and I can live with the blue back-lighting, though I'd prefer white.
Oh that is sexy...

I don't have the ultimate edition, but the matte finish and brown switches would be excellent upgrades.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:20 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
QuickSilverD wrote:Software
Windows 7 Home Premiun --- $170
I'm actually considering waiting for Windows 8 to be released, since I don't feel like paying for an upgrade plus this one.
If you want to use more than 16 GiB of memory, you'll need the professional or ultimate versions of the OS. The OEM version can save you a bit over the retail package.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6832116992
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6832116986


I think I overlooked this, uhmm, I was thinking I was fine with only the Home Premium since I will only purchase 16GiB of RAM, but now I realize that I wasn't counting the graphics card memory, doh!.

So I would have 16GB of RAM DDR3 + 2GB GDDR5 = 18GBs of total RAM, correct? so under this build, I need the professional version to be able to truly use all of it? (Such **** artificial limitation).

If that is the case, then I guess OEM versions become attractive again
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:51 pm

For a 32-bit OS, your maximum memory available is 4 GiB minus whatever your graphics card and other add-in cards have. For a 64-bit OS, the graphics card memory doesn't count against your total.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit allows up to 16 GiB of RAM. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit and Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit allow up to 192 GiB of RAM.

The LGA1155 motherboards that you're considering have four 240-pin DIMM slots. You can buy reasonably-priced 8 GiB DIMMs of PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600) memory. These motherboards could easily hold 4x8 = 32 GiB of memory if you really needed that much.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:53 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:For a 32-bit OS, your maximum memory available is 4 GiB minus whatever your graphics card and other add-in cards have. For a 64-bit OS, the graphics card memory doesn't count against your total.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit allows up to 16 GiB of RAM. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit and Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit allow up to 192 GiB of RAM.

The LGA1155 motherboards that you're considering have four 240-pin DIMM slots. You can buy reasonably-priced 8 GiB DIMMs of PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600) memory. These motherboards could easily hold 4x8 = 32 GiB of memory if you really needed that much.

I don't think most users would ever even touch 8GiB, let alone 16. I think if he does 2x4 it will be about as future-proof as is needed and still allow the other 2 slots to be populated at a later time. I even doubt that will be necessary during the lifetime of this build as many are still doing just fine with only 2 gigs of DDR2. They being said there's really no reason not to go with 2x4 at the very least as it is very inexpensive to do so.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:30 am

2 GB on Windows 7? You must be a patient man.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:22 am

Jason181 wrote:2 GB on Windows 7? You must be a patient man.

Not me, I have 4GB and have no issues whatsoever. A friend of mine still runs xp with 2GB and he hasn't had the desire for more either. I wouldn't recommend it of course, but the point remains that 2x4GB is more than adequate.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:17 am

Also probably a dumb question, if I get this Crusial 256 SSD then I need this thing as well 3.5 to 2x2.5 bay, right?

JustAnEngineer wrote:For a 32-bit OS, your maximum memory available is 4 GiB minus whatever your graphics card and other add-in cards have. For a 64-bit OS, the graphics card memory doesn't count against your total.
that is good to hear.

Jason181 wrote:2 GB on Windows 7? You must be a patient man.

You know what is funny? my brother's laptop came with 2GB of RAM and Windows 7 (a Dell Inspirion), I always told him he should upgrade the RAM in his computer because his computer feels slower than mine (Dell Latitude), and really a computer 5 years older should never feel faster than a new one, but he seems comfortable enough with his hardware.
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Re: First time building a Gaming PC 2.5K budget

Postposted on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:58 pm

As long as that HAF has a 2.5" mount point, you're fine. Almost all new cases do.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
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