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Want to build a system that can play high at 2560 x 1600.
Want it to be quiet.
Want it to be good for at least two to four years.
Budget = $3K

My old system from 2004:
CPU -AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 2.2GHz Socket 939 Single-Core Processor ADA3700BNBOX
CPU Cooler - Stock
Motherboard - ABIT UL8 939 ULi M1689 ATX
Memory - OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit
HD -
DVD Burner - NEC 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE/ATAPI Model ND-3550A
Sound Card - Turtle Beach CATALINA 7.1 Channels PCI
GPU - PowerColor XR98-C3L Radeon 9800 128MB 256-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X
Case w/ PSU - RAIDMAX X1 ATX-909WBP Black/ Silver 0.7mm Japanese SECC Body / Aluminum Faceplate ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450watts
Keyboard - Rosewill RK-500 Black Black USB Wired Slim Multi-media Keyboard
Mouse - RAZER Copperhead RZ01-00050300-R1M1 Chaos Green,

Here is what I'm looking at currently:

CPU - i7-4770K Paid = $349.99 $289.99
CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Nepton 280L Paid = $139.99
Motherboard - ASRock Z87 Extreme9/ac Paid = $359.99 $329.99
Memory - G.Skill Trident X Series 16 GB x2 Paid = $174.99 $119.99 each
SSD and/or Hard Drive - For the OS 840 Evo 120 GB, For the games 840 Evo 1TB Paid = $109.99 $85.99 and $649.99 $539.99
DVD and/or Blu-ray Drive - ASUS 16X 4MB cache Paid = $100.99 $99.99; After MR of $20.00, $79.99
Backup Device - None
Video Card - EVGA GTX 780 Ti x2 Paid = $729.99 $699.99 each
Sound Card - Creative Sound Blaster Z Paid = $89.99 $54.99
Network Card - on board
Power Supply - ZALMAN 1250 Platinum Paid = $274.99 $264.99; Refund on RMA, new cost $239.99 after MR of $20.00, $219.99
Media Card Reader - Comes with motherboard
Cable Management - Velcro Straps
Thermal Paste - Arctic MX4 Paid = $14.99 $9.99
Fans - Noctua NF-A14 PWM 140mm x2 Paid = $28.99 $23.19 each




Outside the Case

Case - Nanoxia NSDS2B Paid = $89.99
Keyboard - Logitech G11
Mouse - SteelSeries Sensei Paid = $99.99 $77.16
Speakers - Logitech X-530 70 Watts 5.1 Speaker
Headset - Logitech G430 Paid = $79.99 $54.99
Monitor - Apple 30" Cinema Display
Operating System - Win 7 Ultimate

Total Spent = $3699.39 Currently over $699.39 Does not include any rebates.

mvp324 wrote:

Hello all, I've been lurking for a while...

Welcome to the Tech Report!

mvp324 wrote:

Want to build a system that can play high at 2560 x 1600. Want it to be quiet. Want it to be small.

CPU Cooler - CORSAIR Hydro H110

That CPU cooler is likely to be incompatible with your "small" goal. The Hydro H80i is going to be easier to fit into a lot of small cases if you want to use an all-in-one water cooler. I have the similarly-sized Hydro H70 mounted at the back of my case. There are also some very effective and very compact air coolers like the Silverstone NT06-Pro that will fit into some tight mini-ITX, mini-DTX or micro-ATX cases.

Does your small case need to have a handle or does it need its own carrying case to be luggable?

mvp324 wrote:

Case - In Win BK644.BN300TBL or NZXT Crafted Series Vulcan

I'm not wild about either of those. For micro-ATX, I'm very satisified with the excellent cooling in the Silverstone Temjin TJ08-E. The Rosewill Line-M is a bit smaller. The Sugo SG10 is a marvel of compactness. If you're looking for a horizontal case to fit into your media center, consider the Grandia GD05.

mvp324 wrote:

Memory - G.Skill Trident X Series 16 GB 32GB why must you be $500!

It's only $170 for 16 GiB from the link that you posted. You can run into some really challenging clearance issues with DIMMs like those that have the large decorative heatsinks. This Crucial BLS2K8G3D1609ES2LX0 is just the opposite, being very low profile. It'll default to PC3-12800 at CAS 9 and 1.35 V when you first install it, but it also has an XMP profile for PC3-14900 speed at CAS 10.

mvp324 wrote:

DVD and/or Blu-ray Drive ASUS 12x 8 MB cache or ASUS 16X 4MB cache 8MB cache is better yes?

Even though my case has room for a couple of regular 5¼" half-height optical drives, I'm using an adapter to use a slim optical drive and a 3½" card reader. Some of the really compact cases like the SG10 require that you use a slot-load slim optical drive since they lack half-height 5¼" drive bays.
Subject: Building a mini-ITX gaming PC

some lunatic wrote:

Slim-line optical drives aren't too hard to find and they won't break the bank. These laptop-oriented drives do tend to be a bit slower than regular half-height drives.
$59 or $98 Slim SATA tray-load Blu-ray burner
or $148 Slim SATA slot-load Blu-ray burner
or $29 Slim SATA tray-load DVD burner
or $69½ Slim SATA slot-load DVD burner
$9 or $8½ Slim SATA to desktop SATA data+power adapter

mvp324 wrote:

Motherboard - $140 Asus Z87M-Plus

What motherboard features do you want that would help us differentiate between that motherboard and one of these other Z87 micro-ATX options?
$213 Gigabyte GA-G1.Sniper M5
$210 Asus Maximus VI Gene
$183 ASRock Z87M OC Formula
$175 Asus Gryphon Z87
$131 ASRock Z87M Extreme4
$125 Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H
$118 MSI Z87M-G43
$115 ASRock Z87M Pro4

mvp324 wrote:

Video Card - EVGA GTX 780

This EVGA 03G-P4-2783-KR has a better cooler design. It will exhaust most of its massive heat load outside the case.

mvp324 wrote:

Sound Card - ASUS Xonar DSX Never again turtle beach never again.

I'm not convinced that this is as good a product as the Sound Blaster Z.

mvp324 wrote:

Network Card - Do they still make Killer Gaming NICs?

If you're looking for a premium NIC, get a motherboard with the Intel i217V built in. Truthfully, today's Realtek RTL8111G works just fine.

mvp324 wrote:

Power Supply - Kingwin LZP 750W or Corsair AX760 760W watt do you guys think?

I went with a SeaSonic SS-660XP². The 760-watt version is $140 this week.

mvp324 wrote:

Monitor - a TV or whatever monitor I have lying around

If this is a gaming PC, spend the $400 to $550 for a 27" WQHD 2560x1440 IPS LCD monitor or this one or even buy direct from Korea.

1) Take some time to really think about whether or not you NEED an ATX mobo or if mATX will hold everything. For the majority of users (including the components you have listed) a mATX mobo will do just fine.

2) 240mm radiators aren't impossible to fit into mATX cases, but as JAE mentioned, 120mm radiators will fit a wider variety of cases. You've got a pretty decently priced system there, but this CM Seidon 120m is on sale for $25 after MIR. That's hard to argue when the H80i costs 3x that much and DEFINITELY doesn't provide 3x the performance.

3) I've got the Silverstone Tremjin's little brother and am equally happy with it. The Sugo SG10 also looks like a very attractive option. Pay attention to PSU length restrictions if you get into the really small mATX cases.

Thanks for the plethora of information. Give me sometime to read through the posts and links. I'll update this post with my thoughts.

Edit: Seems the link referral that TR uses is not liked by my work's network. When I click on some links, I get taken to this which is on a block for me, I'm on a work network. This happens for your links and mine. I want to say any link that goes to newegg.

The auto-referral link goes through kqzyfj.com to add TR's referral code to the end. If you buy something from Newegg or Amazon after clicking through one of those links, Tech Report gets a small payment.

Since you're blocked at work, you can copy the descriptions next to the links then paste them into the search fields on Newegg, Amazon, Directron, etc. It's a bit more cumbersome than clicking directly, but it'll work. You could also right-click, copy the link, paste it into your browser's address bar and then delete the first part.

JAE, I went with some of your changes. The one I have a question about is

JustAnEngineer wrote:

This EVGA 03G-P4-2783-KR has a better cooler design. It will exhaust most of its massive heat load outside the case.

When I was looking at the 780, you posted the reference card, while I had posted the ACX cooler card. I read the info on the ACX cooler, and it seems to be better than the reference cooler. For my updated build, I went with the reference card, and not the ACX yet. If you or anyone else has experience with a reference vs an ACX cooler card, please let me know.

I have decided to forgo a HTPC and just make a mid tower, so I can do 2x GTX 780 Ti. With that in mind I tried looking for a mobo that can do dual PCI 3.0 at x16. I am currently leaning toward the ASRock, as it has the NIC chipset that you mentioned.
I looked up the specs on the 30" cinema display and it has a horrible GTG rate of 16ms, I'll probably use it for a while till I buy a 1440 monitor, or a 4K monitor when the prices drop.

I haven't had a chance to review any power supplies, since I will have to go for a more powerful one.

Oh before I forget, rise necropost rise from your grave!

You might want to go with Cooler masters new 140xl AIO cooling loop since it features a pretty thick 140mm radiator that will fit perfectly in the rear of your case. It also cools a 4.4ghz 4770k 2 degrees cooler at 1200rpms/quiet mode vs the H-80i at max rpms. Once you spin the 140xl to max RPMs the temp difference goes up to 6c matching the performance of the corsair hH-100i on max speed.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/coo ... l=&start=2

vargis14 wrote:

You might want to go with Cooler masters new 140xl AIO cooling loop since it features a pretty thick 140mm radiator that will fit perfectly in the rear of your case. It also cools a 4.4ghz 4770k 2 degrees cooler at 1200rpms/quiet mode vs the H-80i at max rpms. Once you spin the 140xl to max RPMs the temp difference goes up to 6c matching the performance of the corsair hH-100i on max speed.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/coo ... l=&start=2

Thanks for the info Vargis14, I'll have to find some more reviews to get a solid grasp on this new AiO cooler, by cooler master.

If you're not overclocking too far (and Haswell doesn't overclock that well) you are probably better off going for a good quality air cooler. At stock speeds they will likely be quieter than the pump and fan of an AIO water loop.

Noctua stuff is my favourite but it seems to be quite expensive in the US. Coolermaster make good stuff and it's reasonably cheap in the US - look for either the older Hyper 212 EVO or the newer 412S - both are significantly quieter than closed-loop watercoolers when you're not overclocking and the watercoolers really only shine when you boost voltages beyond 1.25V - which is the point at which Haswell starts to get silly and inefficient anyway;

You can have a cool, quiet, efficient air-cooled system that overclocks to 4.0GHz at stock voltage
You can have a hot, noisy, inefficient watercooled system that's running at 4.5GHz at 1.35V

Power use is based on the square of the voltage so the 1.35V overclock above generates more than double the heat for only 12% more performance. For gaming, the CPU is almost irrelevant anyway, so do yourself a favour and don't overclock very far. Your case temps will be lower and it'll help your graphics card cooler, which is by far the most important part of your system for gaming.

Chrispy_ wrote:

If you're not overclocking too far (and Haswell doesn't overclock that well) you are probably better off going for a good quality air cooler. At stock speeds they will likely be quieter than the pump and fan of an AIO water loop.

So AC's may be the way to go? The last AiO I used was in my buddy's system and it seemed to do ok cooling (about 4 years ago when AiO were newish), but the noise never seemed to be a problem.

Chrispy_ wrote:

Noctua stuff is my favourite but it seems to be quite expensive in the US. Coolermaster make good stuff and it's reasonably cheap in the US - look for either the older Hyper 212 EVO or the newer 412S - both are significantly quieter than closed-loop water coolers when you're not over clocking and the water coolers really only shine when you boost voltages beyond 1.25V - which is the point at which Haswell starts to get silly and inefficient anyway;

I heard and read great things about Noctua. A majority of reviews ranked them really well. I look into the Coolermaster's you mentioned.

Chrispy_ wrote:

You can have a cool, quiet, efficient air-cooled system that overclocks to 4.0GHz at stock voltage
You can have a hot, noisy, inefficient water-cooled system that's running at 4.5GHz at 1.35V

I think I should have stated where I was planning to OC to, and you hit the nail on the head. My goal was to OC to 4.0 GHz. I'd probably go a tad bit higher, but I don't see the worth of doing that if I plan to have this running for a min. of 4 years. I figured getting an AiO, would help increase the CPU longevity with it being OCed.

Chrispy_ wrote:

Power use is based on the square of the voltage so the 1.35V overclock above generates more than double the heat for only 12% more performance. For gaming, the CPU is almost irrelevant anyway, so do yourself a favour and don't overclock very far. Your case temps will be lower and it'll help your graphics card cooler, which is by far the most important part of your system for gaming.

I don't plan to OC much higher than 4.0 GHz.

With that in mind is there any ACs that anyone can recommend, also with GPU cooling in mind has anyone used the EVGA ACX cards before? I read the material on it, but I haven't had a chance to look up reviews on that type of card vs the NVDIA reference card.

Get the reference (exhausting) 780Ti if you are getting two of them.
If you are only getting one 780Ti then it really doesn't matter much - The ACX might be a little quieter under load since it reviews well and looks sturdy to me.

Oh, and CPU longevity isn't an issue as long as you're not overvolting and running at high (80+) temperatures for sustained periods;
A 4GHz overclock at stock voltage is barely going to register on the temperature graph nor affect the lifespan. People who burn out their processors usually do it by running their chip 24/7/365 near the raggedy edge of what it can handle in terms of voltage, and even then they still last for years.

FYI, I don't overclock much and I don't buy K-series i7's for the office but I do know a friend who *didn't* get 4GHz on his recent i5-4750K purchase without a 5% voltage bump. With Ivy and Sandy, 4GHz was guaranteed but Haswell really seems to be a mixed bag. There are plenty of geeky articles stating why Haswell is a poor/hot/inefficient overclocker but if you're like me, you probably don't care that much because you're too busy hugging your 5GHz Sandy with a big smug grin.

As I said though, beyond a certain threshold, a powerful or overclocked processor is almost irrelevant - you're talking 2-3% differences;
Really, gaming is all about having a monster graphics card - the processor's job is simply to point the graphics cards at the huge piles of heavy lifting. "The lazy foreman" analogy works for me, at least

Thanks for the extra info Chrispy_ I'll look into some ACs. So I did some BF checks of my the parts I want, and so far 7 of the things I want is on sale to some degree most with free shipping and a couple with shipping ><. The one part I have a question about is my ram:

G.Skill Trident X 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200)

Not on sale, but these are:

G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200)

The main difference is the CAS one is 10 the other 11. They both have same speeds.

I also did a search and found this pair:

G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000)

Lower speed, but also lower CAS. I don't know if CAS is still a viable value to use for RAM now a days, or should I be paying attention to the overall speed of the RAM. Does the speed correlate to Bandwidth throughput?

Try this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148740

I just updated the first post with what I bought. The only thing I am not happy about buying was the Zalman PSU. I forgot to check the reviews on it and it is rated 3/5 eggs. If I took the time I would have did a search for 80+ plat cert and SLI cert, but alas hind sight is 20/20. If I had to do it over again I'd probably would have gone with the Antec HCP-850 Platinum 850W.

JustAnEngineer wrote:

Try this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148740

JAE,

Thanks for the link. I noticed that is the highest speed Crucial has for RAM on Newegg. I'll see if I can find any other review on this RAM.

I had an article once that explained RAM, however I was unable to find it. I did find this article on AnandTech. I was able use the first formula they had listed, but I wasn't too keen on the next two formulas.

Well it's late, I need to get some sleep to open up the liquor store tomorrow. I'll try to keep up with this post tomorrow. Wooo one step closer to my dream gaming machine. I also hope to use it for any folding projects when it is idle during the day.

So, I will be needing to replace my old Razer Copperhead due to it acting up in certain games. Can anyone recommend me a good gaming mouse? I checked out the steel series and this seems to be a good mouse: SteelSeries Sensei MLG version list $99.99 on sale for $77.16. I was thinking of getting the Razer Taipan, but kinda on the fence about it.

I replaced a perfect G500 with the Sensei due to inaccuracies at 2560x1600- it was as if the Logitech mouse, despite it's high-resolution laser sensor could not resolve movement enough for the high resolution monitor.

Didn't really understand it, but I bought the Sensei locally just to see if it would help, and it did.

A few things left that I need to order and I should be on my way to building my machine.
1. What is a good TIM to use now a days? I read that Arctic Silver 5 is pretty good, and the method to apply said paste is best with the pea method.
2. Thanks Airmantharp, I ordered the Sensei MLG a day ago and should get it tomorrow.
3. Has anyone had their PSU or any item they ordered from Newegg look shady? I received the PSU and the 1 TB SSD today, and the PSU had two validation stickers one covering the other. The on that is covered shows signs of being cut open. The SSD box was damaged due to someone gripping too tight between the SSD and the box it comes in, or something else. I took pictures of both if anyone cares to see what I'm talking about, and I also sent a question off to Newegg. I'm worried about the PSU b/c I think I bought the last one and it will be discontinued.

The SSD should be fine; you have to actually try to destroy them.

The PSU, well, I'd return for a Corsair AX860. No need, not at all, for that much wattage, and I wouldn't take a 'revalidated' unit. A bad PSU results in endless problems elsewhere. My 650W Seasonic has handled an overclocked 2500k and a pair of mid-range GPUs (2xGTX670s and 2xHD6950's before that) without issue.

Airmantharp wrote:

The PSU, well, I'd return for a Corsair AX860. No need, not at all, for that much wattage, and I wouldn't take a 'revalidated' unit. A bad PSU results in endless problems elsewhere.

That's the thing, this is supposed to be a NEW PSU, not a refurbished or slightly used PSU. I think the most wattage I wi

Airmantharp wrote:

My 650W Seasonic has handled an overclocked 2500k and a pair of mid-range GPUs (2xGTX670s and 2xHD6950's before that) without issue.

The reason I went with the Zalman, was that it had 2 +12 rails and it was SLI certified AND it was 80+ plat rating, also one review I saw on it it had good efficiency at about 90%. When I head in to work I'll update the main post with the stuff I was able to buy.

mvp324 wrote:

That's the thing, this is supposed to be a NEW PSU, not a refurbished or slightly used PSU.

Send that puppy back. It sounds like a PSU that has an intermittent problem that Newegg/Zalman RMA department aren't patient enough to wait for. Why else would it have been sent back at least twice before?
I've taken to rejecting goods that are delivered open-box. In the EU at least the distance-seller regulations mean that companies haven't got a leg to stand on your "new" purchase doesn't look new when it turns up on the doorstep.

Oh, TIM? Don't bother - Use whatever you can find. The difference between different TIM's is so irrelevant as to be pointless; Cheap white silcone paste or silver-infused paste has 98% the conductivity of the most expensive stuff on the market. I know it's massively out of date now, but this post by Dan always rings home.

Spread a long rice grain on the CPU (like, half an inch) and push the cooler straight down on it and slide it around under pressure for a while. Don't lift the cooler up again to see how good coverage is - you'll introduce air when you replace the cooler.

The CPU die sits right under the centre of the heatspreader, and as long as your cooler has some kind of TIM between this area and the heatspreader, that is all that matters; The difference between cheap TIM and expensive TIM is dwarfed by the difference between a good an bad application. You don't need much goop, and if you put it on properly it will make way more difference than if you don't - which is why I like the fairly generic silver paste - because it's quite runny and spreads easily without much force.

Chrispy_ I plan on getting an RMA for the PSU, I should have done it the minute I saw the validation sticker covering one another. Also with the application of TIM, why do you like the rice method vice the pea method? From the few videos I saw about TIM application, the pea method is good because it spreads evenly out while the rice method spreads out well, but more so at the top and bottom of the CPU, and could press out at both places.

The few items I have left is the CPU cooler, case, OS and BR/DVD drive. The case is OOS on Amazon, and I probably won't see it till after Christmas, but I did go ahead and place an order for it. I think I might get the Nepton 140XL, if I can find a vendor for it. I read 2 of the 3 reviews (I think I read 2), and the two I did read, marked the cooler very well. The other reason I'm for the AiO, is because decided to OC to 4.4 Ghz, maybe 4.5 Ghz from my plan of 4.0 Ghz. I really want to use the CPU and memory to near maximum potential.

With the OS in mind I read a few articles stating that windows will stop providing support to Win 7 next year. With that in mind would it still be viable to get Win 7 or should I go ahead and get Win 8.1? I may also look into the SteamOS, but I'm unsure of what functionality I will be losing if I use that OS.

Also, do you guys like to see pictures of the build/parts?

I also used Thermaltake PS calc. I set it with a high end mobo, an Intel 4770K socket 1150, a 85% TDP, a OC of 4.5 with a volt of 1.3, 4 sticks of ram, 2 780 Ti cards in SLI, 2 Flash SSD, 1 Blu-ray internal, Sound blaster card, 3 USB devices, Fan controller, Front bay card reader, 2 120 mm fans, 2 140 mm fans, Corsair Hydro 80, and 100% peak load, and a capacitor aging of 30%, the calc came out to 997 Watts.

mvp324 wrote:

Also with the application of TIM, why do you like the rice method vice the pea method?

Pea, rice-grain - it doesn't really matter. Just put a single blob on there and press down once to avoid air bubbles. In theory, a well-done x-shape offers the best coverage but unless you attach the heatsink absolutely parallel to the chip, you'll get air bubbles in one of the quadrants. To be honest, it's a bit pointless on Ivy and Haswell because Intel does such a poor job with the TIM between the die and the heatspreader. If you really are going to overclock to the limit you'll want to de-lid your 4770K and that comes with a free voided-warranty and is not without significant risk.

mvp324 wrote:

MS will stop providing support to Win 7 next year.

No they won't - it's their current product for Enterprise, and Enterprise is by far the largest source of revenue for Microsoft. See today's article on Windows Threshold. Microsoft have (without using the exact words) admitted that 8 and 8.1 were a massive mistake on the desktop and promised more traditional interfaces for keyboard and mouse users in the next version.

In saying that, I'm using 8.1 on my HTPC, and it's not a disaster. I still prefer 7, personally.

mvp324 wrote:

the calc came out to 997 Watts.

For a pair of 250W graphics cards and an 87W processor, I'd normally say 850W for normal use but with overclocking you could draw 250W on the processor and 650W from both cards combined. Add your 30% and you have close to 1200W.