Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

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Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:25 am

Hey all, last time I built a PC (5 years ago) TR helped out a lot. I did tons of research last time, checked everything was compatible, shopped around, etc...This time I kind of just impulse bought core components with some spare cash reusing a few from the old build. The problem is the system is a bit unstable right now and I figured I'd check y'alls opinion on what's going wrong.

Components (* when from old build and known working component)

i7 4770K
Asus Z87-A
2x8GB 1600 MHz DDR3, Crucial Sport Ballistix, BLS8G3D1609DS1S00
* 500 W Silver Stone SST-ST50F
* GTX 660TI MSI Power Edition
256 GB Samsung 840 Evo
* 640 GB WD HDD
Some cheap $30 case I got for free from a dorm buddy.

So major issues up front I was downright sloppy compared to last time. Memory is not certified with mobo (it was an impulse by from the deal of the week a few weeks ago) and the PSU is from the Core 2 Duo days and definitely not certified for Haswell, so expecting problems but hopeful it would work.

I do the new install, it tries to boot right when I plug it in without even pressing power button, figure that's a little weird, but it goes into a bunch of mini boot cycles all failing, (CPU fan spins up always) sometimes it makes it to GPU fan spinning up or HDD spinning up. I unplug it, plug it back in after doing a cable check, the same boot cycling happens, but on the third or fourth try it gets to bios. Bios is stable, I peak around and everything looks fine, no crazy temps, no weird settings I can see, no flashing warning messages, components registering, etc...

Reboot, not working again. The weirdest thing is all these automatic boot cycling but I figure it's just trying different failsafe modes. Every time I cycle power, it autopowers on without pressing the power button. Do a strip down to just CPU, one RAM stick, and HDD, doesn't work. Rebuild it back out. So I'm poking around with it and decide for some reason to turn it upright, when I start tilting it upwards, it boots up, and works, okay that's not suppose to happen, boot on tilt is definitely not a feature I've heard of before. Sure enough, if it's standing upright it works. Stable for about 10-15 minutes and then I powered it down and came here.

My guess is some sort of shorting of the mobo with the case, it's super cheap and has these built in mounds instead of standoffs that are way too wide/round for comfort compared to standoffs. Pretty sure they're meant as a replacement since with standoffs on top of the mounds it's way too high to fit ports into the io/slot or screw in a graphics card, and they worked fine for the old build.

So, I'm tempted to try a cardboard box/open air build to see if that's stable to get rid of the possibility of shorting but I was wondering what ya'll thought about this and whether you have other ideas.

Thanks!
HurgyMcGurgyGurg
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:52 am

I'd agree with the idea that it might be a short of some sort. Perhaps a screw or something got between the mobo and the case? It's been known to happen from time to time. Like you're thinking, I'd take the board out and run it outside the case. In fact, for most builds that I do, I put together everything together outside the case and try booting it before attempting anything else.
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mortifiedPenguin
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:27 am

I don't see anything in your build that should be causing these problems. I agree with trying to boot outside the case.

My second guess is power supply, but if it was working with your previous system it should work fine in this one.
kumori
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:49 am

Sounds like either a cabling problem (power, power switch, or reset switch) or a grounding problem to me.
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alloyD
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:00 am

My best guess is that your board is shorting on the case. Try the open air thing and consider getting a new case if that fixes the problem.

And considering the fact that you reused components this time around, investing in a nice case would probably be good for you in the long run.
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superjawes
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:33 am

As yourself and others have said, take it out of the case and try it. While you're doing that, try tilting the PSU around. Maybe that's whats shorting (I'd put my money on the case-mobo short first though).

There are decent $30 cases out there.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, Asus GTX660 TOP, 120 GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 8GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, Silverstone PS07B
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:12 pm

Thanks for all the feedback, I'll be trying the open air build in the next few hours and get back to y'all with the results.
HurgyMcGurgyGurg
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:44 pm

If it does turn out to be a shorting issue due to the case stand-offs touch the motherboard, you could try adding a thin layer of non conductive material between the stand offs and the mobo (eg, electrical tape). To avoid having to get a new case.

If it's not the stand offs, I would try getting a hold of another PSU next to see if that resolves the issue.

After the PSU, it comes down to cabling. When you checked the cabling, did you notice any connections that were loose? The most important connection would be the 24-pin motherboard main power supply. Perhaps check this connection and make sure non of the pins are bent (ie, shorted) and that it's not loose. Also, check the integrity of the contact between those tiny 1-pin connectors connecting the motherboard to the Power Switch.

Do you have access to the power switch mechanism? Perhap's its as simple as the switch mechanism itself is broken and that it is permanently making a complete circuit (fails to disengage most of the time)? If this is the problem, I guess it's time to get a new case.
cynan
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:51 pm

cynan wrote:If it does turn out to be a shorting issue due to the case stand-offs touch the motherboard, you could try adding a thin layer of non conductive material between the stand offs and the mobo (eg, electrical tape). To avoid having to get a new case.


If it's shorting through the standoffs, then it's probably the motherboard and not the case. Those screw holes are meant to be grounded to the case, I believe.
Neil Stephenson wrote:The danger lies not in the machine itself but in the user's failure to envision the full consequences of the instructions he gives to it.
alloyD
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:31 pm

alloyD wrote:
cynan wrote:If it does turn out to be a shorting issue due to the case stand-offs touch the motherboard, you could try adding a thin layer of non conductive material between the stand offs and the mobo (eg, electrical tape). To avoid having to get a new case.


If it's shorting through the standoffs, then it's probably the motherboard and not the case. Those screw holes are meant to be grounded to the case, I believe.

The case doesn't actually have standoffs, according to OP.

HurgyMcGurgyGurg wrote:My guess is some sort of shorting of the mobo with the case, it's super cheap and has these built in mounds instead of standoffs that are way too wide/round for comfort compared to standoffs.
Damage wrote:Don't try to game the requirements by posting everywhere, guys, or I'll nuke you from space.

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superjawes
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:10 pm

Another possibility - the PSU may have a feature where it doesn't maintain power if the fan isn't spinning? Perhaps the fan has worn out and won't spin in one position, but when you tilted it, it was able to spin and then the power works again?
Rectal Prolapse
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Re: Boot On Tilt - probably not a feature

Postposted on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:53 pm

Good news, open-air build is stable. I'm posting from it after I installed ubuntu on the ssd and it's been up at least a few hours now.

Thanks for the case recomendation, DPete! I also did some tilt testing on the PSU and no issues there.
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