Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, JustAnEngineer
ALiLPinkMonster wrote:Here's an accessory that you might like:I need a small, console-like system that I can easily transport.
JustAnEngineer wrote:I might be tempted by a more expensive motherboard with more integrated goodies (mini-PCIe, WiFi, etc.), but spending $24 more wouldn't provide a difference that was apparent while gaming.
JustAnEngineer wrote:ALiLPinkMonster wrote:Here's an accessory that you might like:I need a small, console-like system that I can easily transport.
http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-C ... 001NPEBLA/
JustAnEngineer wrote:Your components look workable to me. I might be tempted by a more expensive motherboard with more integrated goodies (mini-PCIe, WiFi, etc.), but spending $24 more wouldn't provide a difference that was apparent while gaming.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Spending $25 more on a better graphics card would provide an improvement that you could see when gaming.
JustAnEngineer wrote:
Voldenuit wrote:Provantage has the Core i5 4440S for $184.78. 65 W TDP vs 84W for the regular i5 4xxx series. Stock clocks are slower, but turbo clocks are the same as the non-S variants (and as the S CPUs are binned for lower power, their ability to hit their turbo clock targets tend to even out any performance discrepancies).
ALiLPinkMonster wrote:JustAnEngineer wrote:Spending $25 more on a better graphics card would provide an improvement that you could see when gaming.
That's some advice that I just might have to take. The really appealing thing to me about the 750 Ti was its power draw (I couldn't care less about a free game I probably won't play), but looking at the numbers swapping it for a 270 wouldn't warrant a beefier power supply. I can go a bit over budget for more gaming power and better assurance that I'll be able to play future games comfortably.
Voldenuit wrote:Not being able to connect = not being able to game, so I'd say having wi-fi as a backup can make some very big contributions to gaming .
NovusBogus wrote:Voldenuit wrote:Not being able to connect = not being able to game, so I'd say having wi-fi as a backup can make some very big contributions to gaming .
$5 USB adapter. And it can be used on other systems as needed.
NovusBogus wrote:Vaguely R&P aside: I must be doing it right/wrong, my refund wouldn't even cover that CPU. How do people wind up with these fat stacks?
MadManOriginal wrote:Re: low power 'S' CPUs...don't bother. The real power draw difference isn't that much, and they have lower clock speeds when all cores are loaded too. You're paying more for binning with less performance, these CPUs are really for OEMs and system builders who are speccing a system with a specific cooling capacity (that's what TDP really means anyway - it is not directly proportional to power draw.)
MadManOriginal wrote:NovusBogus wrote:Vaguely R&P aside: I must be doing it right/wrong, my refund wouldn't even cover that CPU. How do people wind up with these fat stacks?
This is OT but not R&P sooo....people end up with big refunds because they paid too much in taxes throughout the year. You got your own 'fat stack', you just got it slowly over time not all at once. If for whatever reason you want a higher tax return (and that's a bad idea because you're essentially giving the government an interest-free loan throughout the year) you can always increase your withholdings on your W-4.
NovusBogus wrote:You can only hit max turbo if one core is heavily loaded and the others aren't, so if your CPU load is balanced a higher base clock rate will win out. I'd go with the non S variant as I don't feel the power savings is worth it. The only reason I can think of to use an S in a desktop is if you want to use fanless cooling.
Voldenuit wrote:NovusBogus wrote:You can only hit max turbo if one core is heavily loaded and the others aren't, so if your CPU load is balanced a higher base clock rate will win out. I'd go with the non S variant as I don't feel the power savings is worth it. The only reason I can think of to use an S in a desktop is if you want to use fanless cooling.
The performance deficit of a S vs a regular i5 are pretty small. In passmark, the 4570S get's 96.8% of mulithreaded performance and 98.3% of single threaded performance of the 4570, all with a 23% lower TDP.
From a holistic standpoint, having less CPU heat dumped into a small gaming box also means less heat in the case for the GPU to deal with. Both AMD and nvidia GPUs today can throttle in response to GPU temperature, so this might give more headroom.
Basically, the performance hit going to a S processor looks very minimal, even in multithreaded loads, and negligible for single threaded loads. It's a shame that there aren't more reviews of these processors, because I'll admit that Passmark as a single data point is not something I like to rely on when making big tech decisions. But I still think the S is a worthwhile trade for the OP.
MadManOriginal wrote:The performance hit might be very small, but so is the power draw hit. People WAY overestimate the difference in power draw between the S and non-S CPUs because of the TDP rating. TDP is not meant to be a direct rating of power draw, but rather a rating for OEMs to design cooling systems...hence the D for Design. Also, if the small power draw difference is that much of a concern, one can always just undervolt a standard CPU slightly. S CPUs are a waste of money imo unless it's in an extremely cooling-limited application where even the stock cooler won't fit.
ALiLPinkMonster wrote:Finally got my taxes done, and I'm actually getting more than I paid in. I'm putting about half of it into savings and plan to spend most of the rest on a new build. I've been dealing with this dated old Dell for long enough.
So here's the deal: I need a small, console-like system that I can easily transport. I spend a lot of time gaming at friends' houses and at LAN parties. I'd also prefer something with a low power footprint. It needs to be able to handle the latest games (I'll be playing quite a bit of BF4) at 1080 with relatively high settings. I don't need to go all-out Ultra, but I do like my games to look nice. I also do some amateur audio recording (guitar, drum machines, synths, etc) but I don't think that's an issue with any modern gaming-ready system and my USB interface can handle the sound quality. I don't store a lot of stuff on my PC, so a large hard drive can be scrapped for now. I've got an external 1TBer for any overflow.
Here's what I've got so far:
My budget here needs to stay right around $800, and this build shipped will break that by about $8.
ALiLPinkMonster wrote:If that looks good I only have one question: should I be worried about the stock cooler? I can't imagine a Haswell running at 3.3GHz gets too hot, but I've heard those little hunks of metal that Intel boxes their processors with. They can get pretty loud even at normal operating temps.
Voldenuit wrote:ALiLPinkMonster wrote:If that looks good I only have one question: should I be worried about the stock cooler? I can't imagine a Haswell running at 3.3GHz gets too hot, but I've heard those little hunks of metal that Intel boxes their processors with. They can get pretty loud even at normal operating temps.
Haswell is actually hotter than Ivy and Sandy, which is why I suggested the 'S' CPU. I'm running an i5 4670K with the stock cooler, and even though I'm idling at 29C and max load temps at 66C (with Vcore undervolted by -1.20V), the stock cooler still gets pretty loud. I ended up getting a Zalman CNPS5X cooler for $26 (still hasn't arrived yet, so I can't tell you how it goes), but you might want to look into getting a decent performing low profile cooler.
Normally, I'd suggest running the stock cooler first and seeing if you can live with the heat/noise tradeoff, but with teh RVZ01 (nice case by the way), I'm not sure how hard it will be to simply pop in a new cooler. If you have to disassemble the majority of the build to get the HSF in, then you may want to just bite the bullet and get a better cooler from the outset.
NovusBogus wrote:Vaguely R&P aside: I must be doing it right/wrong, my refund wouldn't even cover that CPU. How do people wind up with these fat stacks?
southrncomfortjm wrote:NovusBogus wrote:Vaguely R&P aside: I must be doing it right/wrong, my refund wouldn't even cover that CPU. How do people wind up with these fat stacks?
Naw, he's the one doing it wrong. If you are getting a big tax refund, you are sending too much money in taxes to the government. You want a fat refund like him? Increase your tax witholding by $50-$100 a pay check. At the end of the year, you will have overpaid your taxes by $1000-$2000 and will get all that back when you do your taxes. In the end though, was it really worth it? Its just a weird way to force savings.
JustAnEngineer wrote:I recommend against memory that has a huge decorative heatsink sticking up above the DIMM. How about this better memory for $8 more?
$253 with CPU 1x8 GiB PC3-12800 Crucial BLS8G3D1609ES2LX0 (DDR3-1600, CAS 9, 1.35 V, low-profile)
This memory defaults to PC3-12800, but it also includes an XMP profile for PC3-14900 (DDR3-1866). The very low profile guarantees that you'll have no interference with any CPU cooler that you want to use. I see other memory+CPU combination deals for $254, $262, $257, $254 or $250, but that low-profile DIMM above is the one that I like.
I don't believe that the $5 more expensive Core i5-4570S processor adds value to a gaming PC. When you're gaming, you want the higher multi-threaded performance of the regular desktop chip. In the real world, the actual differences in CPU power consumption aren't as great as the difference in the rated TDP. These numbers pale in comparison to what your graphics card consumes, anyway. When you're not gaming, either processor is lightly loaded and doesn't consume much power.
JustAnEngineer wrote:"Thermal Design Power" is not equal to actual power usage while gaming.
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/75 ... rs/desktop
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/75 ... rs/desktop
Everything from the slowest quad-core i5-4430 up to the fastest i7-4770K has the same 84-watt TDP. They don't actually use exactly the same power.