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Meadows
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Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:39 pm

How would you guys 'confront' a board manufacturer? Because I'm starting to have enough of MSI. I'd like some help or advice on what to do now, as I've bought a product that doesn't work as advertised.

The board in question is the KA790GX, a garden variety AMD 790GX-based board. The first one had problems, I've since dealt with warranty, but the new replacement has the exact same symptoms, which now enables me to rule out "bad luck" or "accidents". The problem has to be in the BIOS.

There was another thread about it, which is not important, so I'll cover the basics:
* The board doesn't support ACC, which is making me angry beyond comprehension, AMD's latest OverDrive version reports the SB as 700 instead of 750 and also grays out far too many options (a sign of garbage firmware).
* The board doesn't allow you to change the processor's memory controller speed (also known as "NB frequency" in OverDrive), keeping the multiplier at 9 which is severely limiting my overclocking headroom.
* The board has definite problems with the south bridge (that's what deals with PS/2 and PCI slots, or am I wrong?) - if I'm using my good old PS/2 keyboard while my Audigy is playing audio, it will crackle periodically, but nothing ever happens if I'm not using the keyboard. Imagine this while gaming, where you practically hold down some buttons for long. Creative is not at fault this time - everything worked flawlessly on my previous board, which was even cheaper.


MSI supplied me with a beta BIOS when I had these issues the first time around, but it didn't help. Since then (1 month ago) they've posted a new official BIOS, which also doesn't help. It was MSI who recommended me to RMA the board the first time, and I was hoping they'd be right about it, but no, it looks as if all of these are having the same issues. All I need is the ability to set the memory controller's frequency and to have this buggy south bridge fixed (PS/2, PCI, advanced clock calibration et al.), how hard can it be to make the right BIOS?
Should I consult AMD to help me kick some nuts in Taiwan? They could help, right? After all, someone is cracking jokes on their own product(s).

Discuss.
I'm mainly looking for advice I would actually be able to carry out.
 
Synchromesh
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:39 pm

If memory controller multiplier is the same as regular CPU multiplier, on most AMD-based CPUs it is locked from the factory. Some exceptions are FX-series and mobile chips. Not sure if it's still the case but I'm pretty sure it is.

Regarding Audigy, I know exactly what you mean. My old Audigy 2 started having the same problem in my current Asus board to the point of rendering the games practically unplayable. I tried several things including new drivers, different PCI slots, etc. Nothing helped. Solution: replace the pos Audigy with X-fi. Maybe not the cheapest solution (about $80 iirc) but not a single problem with that board since (knocking on wood 3 times). Audigy is still collecting dust bunnies in the spare cards bin. If you know the problem is the keyboard, perhaps replacing the keyboard with a USB one will do?
 
Meadows
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:50 pm

Synchromesh wrote:
If memory controller multiplier is the same as regular CPU multiplier, on most AMD-based CPUs it is locked from the factory.

You're right, that must be why I could change it from 5x to 16x on my old and budget motherboard while my CPU would top out at 11x. Nothing's locked about it, it's just that the BIOS isn't exposing the setting, and it's causing me grief in the process. Technically, this new board is a much worse overclocker than my old budgie exactly because of that little detail - 140 W support or not, I can't do anything with it when the MC ceiling is reached (between 2150 and 2200 MHz, close to the latter in my case) because I can't reduce the multiplier to extend my overclocking chances.

Synchromesh wrote:
If you know the problem is the keyboard, perhaps replacing the keyboard with a USB one will do?

I tried one, and the problem did go away (something's up with PS/2, as I said) but the model I tried couldn't register enough concurrent keys for my liking. I'd rather not get an 'expensive' new USB keyboard if I know the situation can be improved. I haven't tried onboard audio, but that's not an option anyway as I need good quality 5.1 for my entertainment and real ASIO for my hobby.
 
Pachyuromys
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:54 pm

Meadows wrote:
I've bought a product that doesn't work as advertised.

Waaa.

Meadows wrote:
The first one had problems, I've since dealt with warranty, but the new replacement has the exact same symptoms, which now enables me to rule out "bad luck" or "accidents"...

...but strongly suggests user ineptitude.

Meadows wrote:
The problem has to be in the BIOS.

Because your conceit couldn't possibly be to blame.

Meadows wrote:
* The board doesn't support ACC, which is making me angry beyond comprehension...

...which is no doubt causing you to scream and cry and pull out your hair. Oh, and and to flap your gums interminably to anyone willing to listen to your overbearing, condescending diatribes, a number that dwindles every day.

Meadows wrote:
I'm mainly looking for advice I would actually be able to carry out.

As opposed to the personal insults and vitriolic crap you routinely and gratuitously spit up yourself ? Indeed.
Li-Li PC60B, Gigabyte X58-UD5, Ci7 940, Radeon 4870 X2, Velociraptor 300, Caviar Black 1TB, Xonar DX-7, LG GGW-H20L, AverTV PCIe Combo, ZioTek Media Carousel Plus (best thing I ever bought!)... don't tell me you actually read all this?
 
steelcity_ballin
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:59 pm

Sick burn.
 
Meadows
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:01 pm

Pachyuromys wrote:
Bla bla bla

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warrio ... hivist.htm

In fact, you're a strange archivist, because you lost track of several people I've actually been trying to help.

If you think you're so smart, go ahead and code a BIOS for this faulty product. User ineptitude can be no reason for unexposed BIOS options and erratic circuit coding. Thanks for your time, but you have failed.
 
Corrado
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:27 pm

How long ago did you buy the board? Could you possibly return it for a refund or exchange it for a different board/model? Plus, does the board run everything stable at stock speeds? If it does you're pretty much out of luck with complaining to anyone about it.

The less ethical thing to could be to buy a new board and attempt to return it with the MSI board in the box. This is illegal in the US as it constitutes retail fraud, but people do it all the time.
 
Meadows
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:33 pm

Corrado wrote:
How long ago did you buy the board? Could you possibly return it for a refund or exchange it for a different board/model?

About a month ago... I think, and it has gone back to the supplier and been replaced for a brand new board once, but it turned out it wasn't accidental failure because the factory-smelly new replacement has the same problems.
Basically I have problems with port/IRQ sharing/conflicts (got no idea which, actually, I just know that PS/2 kills my PCI slots), overclocking (I have a clear view on this one, a critical option is not exposed in the BIOS) and chipset functionality (ACC, the very thing SB750 came out for, is completely unavailable on the board and there's just very few things that AMD OverDrive is able to modify).

Edit: I wasn't offered the possibility to replace it with another type, and frankly, I don't have the money for buying a surplus board and letting this rot (I'm not sending it back anywhere as a fraud). It's stable at stock speeds, and stable up to a 21% overclock, but I'm sure MSI would be willing to help anyway, they did so with a beta BIOS previously (too bad it didn't do anything). My old budget board executed a whopping 37% overclock on the ever-so-bad Phenom design, bringing it a hair over 3 GHz, which was a very enjoyable thing to own, but that board is starting to have even more severe issues so I'd think twice before giving it more months of usage.
Last edited by Meadows on Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Corrado
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:42 pm

Meadows wrote:
Corrado wrote:
How long ago did you buy the board? Could you possibly return it for a refund or exchange it for a different board/model?

About a month ago... I think, and it has gone back to the supplier and been replaced for a brand new board once, but it turned out it wasn't accidental failure because the factory-smelly new replacement has the same problems.
Basically I have problems with port/IRQ sharing/conflicts (got no idea which, actually, I just know that PS/2 kills my PCI slots), overclocking (I have a clear view on this one, a critical option is not exposed in the BIOS) and chipset functionality (ACC, the very thing SB750 came out for, is completely unavailable on the board and there's just very few things that AMD OverDrive is able to modify).


Most places have a 30 day return policy, try and bring it back. Worst case is wait till after Christmas and say it was a gift and you didn't try it till after Christmas.
 
Meadows
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:52 pm

Corrado wrote:
Worst case is wait till after Christmas and say it was a gift and you didn't try it till after Christmas.

There's an idea, but I wanted to hand it to MSI first.
Buying yet another thingie for this computer is out of the question, I've wasted enough money on it already for now.
 
Hdfisise
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:30 pm

FYI I also have the same crackling problem on a 780G motherboard with a PS/2 keyboard so that one is probably more the chipsets fault and something MSI can't help.
 
Meadows
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:40 pm

Hdfisise wrote:
FYI I also have the same crackling problem on a 780G motherboard with a PS/2 keyboard so that one is probably more the chipsets fault and something MSI can't help.

I've been using an SB600-based board before, and it curiously didn't do that, so I guess 700/750 is affected (they could fix it with drivers, right? Not that their monthly updates have done anything to help me so far). At any rate, thanks for the info, it may nudge me towards getting a good USB keyboard instead of the cheap-ass spare part I have lying here (screw AMD for this one).
 
Meadows
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Re: Help me get what I paid for

Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:46 am

Update: Jesus Holy F****** Christ in a Basket.
Look at this. No, seriously, look at it (from bottom to top):

Image

Are these guys for real? (My comment was a reply to their recommendation to update the BIOS.)

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