$500 for a new monitor - thoughts?

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$500 for a new monitor - thoughts?

Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:42 pm

I'm thinking of finally converting from my CRTs. I have ample desk space (so that's not the reason for switching), but it looks like the prices and technology have finally reached a point where the merits of the high end CRTs are coming to an end. I have owned almost every super-high-end CRT (21"+Trinitrons included) so I've been using 1600x1200 @ 85Hz + for years.

It seems like Dell is making the current fan favorites (who does the panels normally?)?

Firstly, I'd rather spend $400 on this than $650, but if the merit was there (and/or I found a good deal) I might be willing to splurge.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Edit: I ordered the Ben Q FP241W 24" S-PVA for $580 + shipping. Details here.
Last edited by computron9000 on Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:05 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:45 pm

Take a look at the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, on the high end of your budget range.
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:49 pm

I'm having trouble figuring out precisely what advantages I'd get over this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824001096]

SAMSUNG 226BW Black 22" 2 ms (GTG) DVI

It's going for $309 w/ free shipping and a $40 MIR to bring it down to $269.

I guess I'm trying to understand what exactly is making that Dell model such a significant improvement. Is it pretty much connectors or are the panels much different?
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:56 pm

computron9000 wrote:I'm having trouble figuring out precisely what advantages I'd get over this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824001096]
SAMSUNG 226BW Black 22" 2 ms (GTG) DVI
I guess I'm trying to understand what exactly is making that Dell model such a significant improvement.
Well, there's the higher resolution, for one:
16:10 (1.60) aspect ratios: <table><tr><td> Width </td> <td> Height </td> <td> MPixels </td></tr> <tr><td>1680</td> <td>1050</td> <td>1.76</td></tr> <tr><td>1920</td> <td>1200</td> <td>2.30</td></tr> </table> That's 30.6% more pixels.

The Samsung 226BW is a TN panel. The UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC is an S-PVA panel with a wide color gamut. You'll get faster response with the TN panel, but you'll get much better viewing angles and better color reproduction with the PVA panel (or with an S-IPS panel).
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:56 pm

For the Dell 2407...

Viewing Angle
178 degrees (vertical), 178 degrees (horizontal)

S-Video, Composite, Component, Integrated 9-in-2 media card reader/slots, 4 Universal Serial Bus (USB) 2.0 Ports, Kensington security port

Dynamic Contrast Ratio (Typical)
(1000:1)

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/product ... u=320-5647

To name a few. Big thing for me when I purchased mine was the number of inputs it offered.
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:00 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_cry ... chnologies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

These may be helpful as a starting point to understand the 3 popular panel types. TN panels are the cheapest and the fastest, but have the worst image quality.
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:08 pm

Yes, I see now. Is ~$600 the baseline for the higher end S-PVA panel? It appears that the 2407WFP and Samsung SM 244T are apples to apples (while the other Samsung I listed was an apples to oranges).

It also appears the $400 E248WFP monitor is not a mini-2407WFP (in that it uses the higher quality panel but skimps on the connectors.. just the opposite, it uses the TN as well).

I could live without the added connectors but it's look like it might be sensible to try to go after the higher end 24" panel. I'd just like a compromise in between. Say, dual-DVI only but the nice panel for $500? hehe
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:35 pm

If you really want to go nuts I suggest going for the NEC S-IPS 24" model.

However, if your CRTs are not dying yet I would suggest to wait for LED backlit LCD monitors to come out en masse first then to make a decision. Too bad SED are almost dead or we may see some fireworks, but guess it is not meant to be. :evil: :cry: :-?
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Postposted on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:16 pm

computron9000 wrote:Yes, I see now. Is ~$600 the baseline for the higher end S-PVA panel? It appears that the 2407WFP and Samsung SM 244T are apples to apples (while the other Samsung I listed was an apples to oranges).
Yeah. The Dell uses the same panel (made by Samsung) that the Samsung uses.
I could live without the added connectors but it's look like it might be sensible to try to go after the higher end 24" panel. I'd just like a compromise in between. Say, dual-DVI only but the nice panel for $500? hehe
Connectors don't add much to the cost of the monitor compared to the cost of the different kinds of panels. If your competitor is offering the same PVA panel with more connectors for just (say) $20 more, which do think is going to win in the marketplace?
Flying Fox wrote:If you really want to go nuts I suggest going for the NEC S-IPS 24" model.
Not for anywhere close to $500, he's not.
Too bad SED are almost dead or we may see some fireworks, but guess it is not meant to be. :evil: :cry: :-?
Yeah, and OLED in larger sizes is in no hurry to get here either (though probably it will arrive just in time to make all those LED-backlit screens obsolete). SED seems to belong with IMOD in the "perpetually 5 years away" category.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:57 am

Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if I'm up for another $1200 monitor quite yet, FF. I guess for now I'll either drop to the $300 range and pick up a TN to see what I think, or go ahead and splurge and grab the Dell.

How long before some of the new technologies arrive and start clashing, do you think? I'm up for waiting another 6-12 months, but not much more than that. Usually when I buy something like a monitor, I buy in the $500-$1000 range, since I like nice displays... chances are I probably won't be satisfied with a low-end LCD, but I wouldn't really know until I got to use it in different lighting conditions over a variety of applications.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:44 am

computron9000 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if I'm up for another $1200 monitor quite yet, FF. I guess for now I'll either drop to the $300 range and pick up a TN to see what I think, or go ahead and splurge and grab the Dell.
TN panels don't seem to bother some people, or at least the higher g2g response makes up for it (and they don't move their heads much). The reduced viewing angle is more of a problem as the screens get larger, because even if your eyes are well centered the edges of the display are at a greater and greater angle.
How long before some of the new technologies arrive and start clashing, do you think? I'm up for waiting another 6-12 months, but not much more than that.
It's going to be more than 6 months, that's for sure. Panel prices typically dip in the first quarter due to lower demand, so you may see some deals in the new year. After that, they are predicted to tighten up again (but like all predictions in tech...). We should start seeing a wave of LED-backlit displays fairly soon, since that can be applied to existing panels, but the prices will be higher -- and again, only an actual viewing will enable you to decide if they're worth it.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:49 am

computron9000 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if I'm up for another $1200 monitor quite yet, FF.
I remember spending CAD$1200 for my 17" Nanao CRT w/ Trinitron tube back in 1995. :o

computron9000 wrote:I guess for now I'll either drop to the $300 range and pick up a TN to see what I think, or go ahead and splurge and grab the Dell.

...

chances are I probably won't be satisfied with a low-end LCD, but I wouldn't really know until I got to use it in different lighting conditions over a variety of applications.
Then I suggest you wait for the next Dell deal (should be one coming before Christmas) and grab one. Take advantage of the 21 (or 30?) day satisfaction guarantee in which they pay shipping to take the monitor back for refund or replacement. At least the people I got on the phone did not give me a hard time. However, I am not sure if the 2407WFP-HC will dip below the $500 mark though. The last cheapest deal from Dell 3 months ago was at $600, so be warned.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:50 am

Flying Fox wrote:The last cheapest deal from Dell 3 months ago was at $600, so be warned.

I paid $725 for mine, and it's been worth every penny.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:20 am

<a href="http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16824185004">This </a> also seems worth checking out. I haven't been able to find any real reviews of this particular model, but the brand gets good marks. Plus, it's a true 8-bit panel.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:21 am

If you don't mind getting a refurb, Dell Outlet has some 2407FPW and 2407FPW-HC monitors in stock right now for $540 and $570, respectively. LINK
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:16 am

Flying Fox wrote:
computron9000 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if I'm up for another $1200 monitor quite yet, FF.
I remember spending CAD$1200 for my 17" Nanao CRT w/ Trinitron tube back in 1995. :o
I still have my 21" Viewsonic from 1994. 1600x1200 was mindblowing back then (I had to buy a pro Matrox video card to drive it). And no, you don't want to know what I paid for it.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:06 am

I have the Acer AL2223W. $230 on Newegg for a 22" LCD. Nothing fancy but Call of Duty 4 with an 8800GTS looks incredible.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:26 am

I bought this monitor (28") from newegg and is extremely happy with it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824254026

It's a 28" monitor, it bright and it's huge. Compare to the 28" viewsonic monitor (which I also tried,) it much shorter - the viewsonic has a very high base which doesnt work too well for monitors this size.

It's a plain ole monitor with no USB hubs, etc but it works for me. The reason i went with this is that i am OLD! my eye sight is degrading year over year and a fast monitor with large pixel pitch (.309) is what my optometrist recommends. For the past 4-5 year, every time there is a new larger monitor under $1000 that comes out, I will go out, buy it, and try it out - have been using a 22" Gateway before this which I was also quite happy with. I believe, however, this will serve me well for the next few years because my desk will not accommodate anything bigger...

I dont have any dead/stuck pixel and I find that I can stay on the computer longer without my eyes getting tired.


Good luck!
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:04 am

I thought the BenQ FP241W was the best pick for 24"ers but perhaps that has changed in recent times? I'm not in the know on Dell. Every 24" Samsung (branded) I've heard of reportedly has backlighting issues, but this might change as they has a press release on an LED model months ago.

I'll be picking up a solid-spec 24"er sometime this spring so this topic is certainly of interest to me. I'm hoping a good LED panel will be out by then at <$700.


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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:19 am

DrCR wrote:I thought the BenQ FP241W was the best pick for 24"ers but perhaps that has changed in recent times?
A guy at work bought it for his home, I still have to check it out, if ever. I'll report back if I get to see it.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:44 am

How do you guys find out which panel these monitors use? It's usually not listed in the specs no? Is there some database? Or can you tell by other specs?
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:04 am

I'll have to say those 24" LCDs are pretty damn nice.
Personally, I've got a HP LP2465 - another one with a samsung s-pva panel (it was one of the cheapest with that panel when I bought it, though I guess it's getting a bit old now).
It is, however, a business unit, as such it lacks speakers, video inputs, and, probably it's biggest drawback, HDCP support (personally I couldn't care less). No fancy memory card reader neither, but you do get a USB hub, and 2 DVI-I connections which is nice (quite a few monitors of this class only seemed to have one digital input - here you actually get all 4 possible cables included...)
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:11 am

Anyone know which panel type this cheaper NEC 24" has: LCD24WMCX?

The 178deg viewing angles would suggest S-PVA or S-IPS, and this is typically available for about £50 less than the Dell in the UK.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:27 am

JJCDAD wrote:How do you guys find out which panel these monitors use? It's usually not listed in the specs no? Is there some database? Or can you tell by other specs?
The forums at [H] and Anandtech usually have pretty good discussions on those. Another source is flatpanels.dk.

MrJP wrote:Anyone know which panel type this cheaper NEC 24" has: LCD24WMCX?

The 178deg viewing angles would suggest S-PVA or S-IPS, and this is typically available for about £50 less than the Dell in the UK.
This shows it is a TN, but the viewing angles do throw me for a loop. Well, you get what you pay for I suppose.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:43 am

Try this site...
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php? ... =1041&ph=9

Step 1: Pick brand
Step 2: Pick model
Step 3: Pick comparison to display.

They don't have all brand and models but they have a really good selection.

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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:43 am

One of the best LCD review sites imo is BeHardware:
http://www.behardware.com/html/cat/22/

I have also been looking for a 24" monitor. My gamers LCD wishlist:
FullHD (or 1900x1200)
No shiny surface
Fast sub 6ms response time
Wide gamut
100Hz (just dream?)
Minimum display delay ( http://www.behardware.com/articles/632- ... s-yes.html )


One of the latest 24" reviews they list Iiyama Prolite B2403WS to add a new candidate to discussion ;)
http://www.behardware.com/articles/680- ... -245t.html
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:18 am

Flying Fox wrote:
MrJP wrote:Anyone know which panel type this cheaper NEC 24" has: LCD24WMCX?

The 178deg viewing angles would suggest S-PVA or S-IPS, and this is typically available for about £50 less than the Dell in the UK.
This shows it is a TN, but the viewing angles do throw me for a loop. Well, you get what you pay for I suppose.


That's a shame. Thought it was probably too good to be true.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:29 am

JJCDAD wrote:How do you guys find out which panel these monitors use? It's usually not listed in the specs no? Is there some database? Or can you tell by other specs?



Ex Nihilo wrote:Try this site...
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php? ... =1041&ph=9

Step 1: Pick brand
Step 2: Pick model
Step 3: Pick comparison to display.

They don't have all brand and models but they have a really good selection.

-Ex



This site has helped me now and then in the past.

http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen1523.html
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:39 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
computron9000 wrote:I'm having trouble figuring out precisely what advantages I'd get over this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824001096]
SAMSUNG 226BW Black 22" 2 ms (GTG) DVI
I guess I'm trying to understand what exactly is making that Dell model such a significant improvement.
Well, there's the higher resolution, for one:
16:10 (1.60) aspect ratios: <table><tr><td> Width </td> <td> Height </td> <td> MPixels </td></tr> <tr><td>1680</td> <td>1050</td> <td>1.76</td></tr> <tr><td>1920</td> <td>1200</td> <td>2.30</td></tr> </table> That's 30.6% more pixels.

The Samsung 226BW is a TN panel. The UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC is an S-PVA panel with a wide color gamut. You'll get faster response with the TN panel, but you'll get much better viewing angles and better color reproduction with the PVA panel (or with an S-IPS panel).

He is right about the 226 bw , i have one and don't recommend it to anyone
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:53 am

UberGerbil wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:If you really want to go nuts I suggest going for the NEC S-IPS 24" model.
Not for anywhere close to $500, he's not.


I do servers and networks, so I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to high-end displays, so with that in mind...

The spec that jumps out at me right away with that monitor is the mere 800:1 contrast ratio. What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?
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