$500 for a new monitor - thoughts?

What you see is what you get, including photography, displays, and video equipment.

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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:56 am

reynolm wrote:
UberGerbil wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:If you really want to go nuts I suggest going for the NEC S-IPS 24" model.
Not for anywhere close to $500, he's not.


I do servers and networks, so I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to high-end displays, so with that in mind...

The spec that jumps out at me right away with that monitor is the mere 800:1 contrast ratio. What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?
Contrast-ratios aren't really the end-all, be-all. They're twisted, exaggerated, quoted differently by everyone, and all but useless because of that. Color fidelity, gamut, and uniformity are generally what high-end monitors offer over cheaper alternatives.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:08 am

If you don't mind going a little smaller you can get the Dell 2007WFP. Last I know of they were using S-IPS panels. I was considering between this and the Dell 24" but in the end I decided to go with the 20" since I didn't like the look of S-PVA panels. My next upgrade will propably be to the 3007WFP-HC which is also using S-IPS panels but that will have to wait till prices drop below $1000.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:04 am

DrCR wrote:I thought the BenQ FP241W was the best pick for 24"ers but perhaps that has changed in recent times?
That uses the AU-Optronics M240UW01 panel (P-MVA). Other monitors using the same panel:
LG L246WP
Acer AL2423W (which appears to be discontinued, at least at NewEgg).

Of course the panel is just part of the equation: the backlight, scaler and other electronics can seriously affect the visual quality from otherwise-identical panels, and other features like connections and OSD can be important to the buyer as well.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:06 am

kitsura wrote:If you don't mind going a little smaller you can get the Dell 2007WFP. Last I know of they were using S-IPS panels. I was considering between this and the Dell 24" but in the end I decided to go with the 20" since I didn't like the look of S-PVA panels. My next upgrade will propably be to the 3007WFP-HC which is also using S-IPS panels but that will have to wait till prices drop below $1000.


Yup, I never hear people talk about the 'black crush' that pva/mva monitors have when viewed straight on. At 24in, you get some of those angle dependend changes that people love to bitch about on TN. pva/mva also have the most problems with ghosting with darkish colors like brown even with overdrive. But even the top rated (for speed) TN+overdrive LCDs have some ghosting because of persistence of vision (I also have a vx922.)

That said, I stuck with my 2407-HC, I think mainly because of the good blacks and color, the scaler, and the inputs. The total lack of working scalers in most panels narrowed my shopping list quick. But, if you're only using it for PC, your vidcard/driver can do it all. Also, scalers can introduce lag - if you're into rhythm, fighting, competitive FPS, etc.

There isn't a perfect one - it's all tradeoffs. Buy it from a place with a good return/restock policy like Dell, Walmart, Best Buy, etc.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:18 am

This link should be stickied somewhere:
Anandtech LCD Buyer's Guide Thread
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y

I'm considering the HP LP2465. Its $615 before a $75 MIR. Subtract Paypal's 20% and it comes to $417 after all is said & done. +$22 shipping.

EDIT: I hate when I get excited. The 20% expired. Might be able to get it from HP.com but it'd be $35 more.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:32 pm

hans wrote:This link should be stickied somewhere:
Anandtech LCD Buyer's Guide Thread
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y

I'm considering the HP LP2465. Its $615 before a $75 MIR. Subtract Paypal's 20% and it comes to $417 after all is said & done. +$22 shipping.

EDIT: I hate when I get excited. The 20% expired. Might be able to get it from HP.com but it'd be $35 more.
The only issue I have with that AT thread is the dropping of the 2007WFP. Our office ordered a bunch and I believe we all won the S-IPS lottery. If you are unlucky enough to get the S-PVA well I am sorry. :P
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:30 pm

mattsteg wrote:
reynolm wrote:
UberGerbil wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:If you really want to go nuts I suggest going for the NEC S-IPS 24" model.
Not for anywhere close to $500, he's not.


I do servers and networks, so I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to high-end displays, so with that in mind...

The spec that jumps out at me right away with that monitor is the mere 800:1 contrast ratio. What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?
Contrast-ratios aren't really the end-all, be-all. They're twisted, exaggerated, quoted differently by everyone, and all but useless because of that. Color fidelity, gamut, and uniformity are generally what high-end monitors offer over cheaper alternatives.
reynolm wrote:What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:31 pm

reynolm wrote:
mattsteg wrote:
reynolm wrote:
UberGerbil wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:If you really want to go nuts I suggest going for the NEC S-IPS 24" model.
Not for anywhere close to $500, he's not.


I do servers and networks, so I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to high-end displays, so with that in mind...

The spec that jumps out at me right away with that monitor is the mere 800:1 contrast ratio. What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?
Contrast-ratios aren't really the end-all, be-all. They're twisted, exaggerated, quoted differently by everyone, and all but useless because of that. Color fidelity, gamut, and uniformity are generally what high-end monitors offer over cheaper alternatives.
reynolm wrote:What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?
Why not read the material you quote instead of quoting yourself?
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:33 pm

You said that the contrast ratio isn't that important, but you didn't say what about that high-end monitor makes it $1200 worth of awesome. ;)
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:48 pm

reynolm wrote:You said that the contrast ratio isn't that important, but you didn't say what about that high-end monitor makes it $1200 worth of awesome. ;)
I listed what you tend to pay extra for in high-end displays. The gains that high-end displays give you are generally related to displaying the image as accurately and uniformly as possible with good contrast (and once again, just throw out the specifications on that - it's far too easy to lie). It's not about having eye-popping specs (because eye-popping generally just means "more exaggerated than others"). It's about producing an accurate, pleasing, and consistent image.

From NEC's page:
NEC wrote:# Achieves 76% Adobe RGB coverage
# X-Light Pro™ technology maintains a consistent light output for the useful life of the display as well as correcting for short-term fluctuations.
# ColorComp™ reduces uniformity imperfections by compensating for differences in color and luminance across the screen area.
# Internal 12-bit Look Up Tables (LUTs) allows the display of 16.7 million colors out of a palette of 69 billion, thus providing for more points of shading between white and black and virtual elimi­nation of color banding and posterization effects
# In-plane switching (IPS) type LCD module boasts the best possible color and grayscale accuracy and minimal gamma (brightness tone) shift at off angles, making these LCDs more suitable for demanding, color-critical applications
The monitor can display a lot of colors and do so consistently over short and long time periods. This is huge for people who work with images.
NEC wrote:# Ambix3™ technology provides the widest range of computer video compatibility between analog and digital systems, and enables you to switch between three inputs
# AmbiBright™ automatically adjusts the screen brightness depend­ing on the ambient lighting conditions
# Real-time clock allows for 24/7 power management scheduling and monitor sleep/wake management, improving energy savings and extending display life
# OSD lockout gives users the ability to lock out all functions, including power, thereby limiting non-users from adjusting preset adjustments
These are sorta mumbojumbo. Not huge deals

NEC wrote:# XtraView+™ technology provides for the widest viewing angles available (up to 178°) with minimal off-angle color shift
This is huge for showing others what's on your screen or working with an array of screens.
NEC wrote:# Advanced No Touch Auto Adjust™ provides optimal image set­tings upon initial power-on and closed signal changes (includes a user-selectable mode in the Advanced OSD™)
Again, not of interest to me.
NEC wrote:# TileMatrix™ and TileComp™ allow you to build virtually seam­less video walls of various configurations (horizontal or vertical) through the Advanced OSD
Probably useful for some people.
NEC wrote:# Rapid Response™ technology with Rapid Motion™ and overdrive provides smooth, undistorted rendering of fast-moving video
Good stuff, if well implemented.
NEC wrote:# Redesigned bezel controls increase simplicity and ease of use, displaying on-screen functions alongside the appropriate buttons
# Four-way ergonomic stand boasts pivot, swivel, tilt and height-ad­justment up to 150mm to maximize your viewing comfort
Nice, but meh stuff.
NEC wrote:# Ultra-thin black bezel provides a neutral color surround to mini­mize unwanted peripheral influence when used for color-critical viewing.
Pretty important for color critical stuff. Free to implement.

In short, they invested a ton of time, effort, and expense making it display lots of colors accurately and consistently. For the sort of people who spend large sums on a display, those are the sorts of things that matter. If you don't care about those things, just get a cheaper display and be happy your needs may be cheaply met.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:50 pm

mattsteg wrote:Contrast-ratios aren't really the end-all, be-all. They're twisted, exaggerated, quoted differently by everyone, and all but useless because of that. Color fidelity, gamut, and uniformity are generally what high-end monitors offer over cheaper alternatives.


reynolm wrote:What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?

There, highlighted for you.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:51 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
mattsteg wrote:Contrast-ratios aren't really the end-all, be-all. They're twisted, exaggerated, quoted differently by everyone, and all but useless because of that. Color fidelity, gamut, and uniformity are generally what high-end monitors offer over cheaper alternatives.


reynolm wrote:What about the monitor justifies the $1,199.99 price tag?

There, highlighted for you.
The more I read on that display the more I want one :(

Actually, why not the 26in one that covers 94% :o of adobeRGB?
Last edited by mattsteg on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:57 pm

Having 12-bit LUTs to do precise gamma and profile matching without banding (or blowing out the whites or losing the blacks) is a huge deal for people who make their living working with images, and make any discussion of contrast ratio rather moot. That first set of bullet points easily justifies the price for professional applications.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:29 pm

A bit off topic, but I'm looking at getting a 17" LCD and setting it up in portrait mode next to the 24"er. Any recommendations?

The only 17"ers I know nowadays would have insufficient viewing angles in portrait mode.


UberGerbil wrote:
DrCR wrote:I thought the BenQ FP241W was the best pick for 24"ers but perhaps that has changed in recent times?
That uses the AU-Optronics M240UW01 panel (P-MVA). Other monitors using the same panel:
LG L246WP
Acer AL2423W (which appears to be discontinued, at least at NewEgg).

Of course the panel is just part of the equation: the backlight, scaler and other electronics can seriously affect the visual quality from otherwise-identical panels, and other features like connections and OSD can be important to the buyer as well.


Thanks for the info. Do you have a take on the LCD/panel or just posting for FYI? Thanks at any rate. :)

DrCR

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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:16 pm

I will definitely keep an eye out for a deal on the Dell 2407WFP-HC. Looks like finding one of those around $600 would be a good deal and probably my best choice.

The Dell 2007WFP is too small for what I'm after. $200 for 4" of extra screen is fine by me.

I'm personally not too worried about the "delay". I don't think I'll notice it, and what I don't notice won't hurt me while gaming. The hardest thing for me is going to be adjusting to the different aspect ratio. I am really used to 4:3.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:20 pm

I recently bought two 24' LCD monitors which are Gateway FPD2485W(S475) and Soyo MT-GW-DYLM24D6($250). I picked the Gateway model because it meets my viewing angle requirements and is HDCP compliant. I picked the Soyo model even though it is not HDCP compliant because of the price. It still meets my veiwing angle requirements. The colour of both monitor looks great. I was prepared to pay up to $1000 and considered many makes of LCD monitor and ended up with the above.

Now my question:
Could anyone tell what type of TFT the above LCD monitors are and who the manufacturer(s) of the LCD panel(s) is(are) that are used for the above monitors?
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:28 pm

churin wrote:I recently bought two 24' LCD monitors which are Gateway FPD2485W(S475) and Soyo MT-GW-DYLM24D6($250). I picked the Gateway model because it meets my viewing angle requirements and is HDCP compliant. I picked the Soyo model even though it is not HDCP compliant because of the price. It still meets my veiwing angle requirements. The colour of both monitor looks great. I was prepared to pay up to $1000 and considered many makes of LCD monitor and ended up with the above.

Now my question:
Could anyone tell what type of TFT the above LCD monitors are and who the manufacturer(s) of the LCD panel(s) is(are) that are used for the above monitors?
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y says it uses an AU Optronics P-MVA (M240UW01 V0) Panel.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:16 pm

churin wrote:Could anyone tell what type of TFT the above LCD monitors are and who the manufacturer(s) of the LCD panel(s) is(are) that are used for the above monitors?


http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showd ... i=2935&p=3

That says the gateway is S-PVA... I like mine
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:12 pm

Thanks for the info and the link.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:37 pm

There are several sites that will give you the panel for a given display model, such as flatpanels.dk
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:51 pm

Thanks for the info. I checked the website but unfortunately it did not have info on the two models.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:40 pm

Edit: Never mind.
Last edited by Prospero424 on Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:54 pm

I just went through the same trip, looking for a good 24"+ allround/photography/gaming display. And photography and gaming doesnt usually go together as accurucy is often had on account of speed.

At first i was onto the NEC Multisync 2690WUXI. That display is gorgous and is the same as the more expensive Spectraview really, except it isnt handpicked. And as i already have a hardware colorimeter i dont need the package. And whats more interresting is that you can enable the Spectraview functionality inside the menu of the Multisync to get the full benefit of the built in 12-bit LUT table that those monitors have. A friend of mine(pro photographer) has it and its a really good monitor. What disqualified it for me was the price really. I dont do that much photography anymore and if i start doing that, i can always get a display as that one later on. But had i dont more color imaging, i wouldnt have hesitated.

That made me go towards the 2407WFP-HC and read up on it. And I've been very happy with my 2005FPW for a few years so i ordered a 2407. All said and done, fine, got a 30 day delivery date, but i hadnt gotten the new comp yet so... but after about 3 weeks i got a delivery change notice and put the date forward to 2008-02-01, which is really a bit steep to wait, no matter how good it would be. When i spoke to Dell about it they said they had a hard time getting hold of enough panels for it. And the E248WFP doesnt use the same panel or has the same options for that matter. So i started going back to reviews. Found something and cancelled the 2407.

Looked at both samsungs and Viewsonics but there was always something that wasnt good. Ended up with the BenQ FP241W. Saw several reviews that gave it higher grades for color accurcy and actually most things than the 2407 and comparable Samsung. And that fact was pretty significant. Found it in stock at my closest good store(10 minutes away) ordered and picked it up the day after. Its great. Unpacked it. It has a good stand, and the surface is really gorgous. It has a kindof half gloss effect. From straight ahead it looks about as most matte screens. But when viewed at about 60º angle you can see it has a gloss effect, but without the annoying reflections from the front that the really glossy screens has.

The only culprits with it was the following.
* Input-assignments. If you have several computers connected to the monitor, i use both two, one on DVI and one on D-SUB. If one connection losses sync, it automatically switches over instead of staying on the input.

* Preprogrammed viewing modes. Because the monitor has a few processing things going for it, they use a sharpening algoritm in some of them. So the color balance was good in photography mode, but there, the sharpning was on, which made text hard to read. So i ended up with hte normal mode, and then put the color-setting to custom, which took care of all the needs.

But now, it is great. Havent run the calibration yet because I´m redoing the wall color in my work-room and also because I'm thinking of switching my Spyder 2 Pro to a Spyder 3 Elite. Although i ran the Nokia testing program that gives a good impression of most things.

Without measuring i would say that the gamma is too high. Contrast is good, greyscale is really good. I get a full graduation from black to white. Even 1% values can be seen clearly, which is why i suspect the gamma is set too high. And the black levels is good, viewing angles is good and it has very little lightbleed and good uniformity. For the week I've head it and havent calibrated it, im really happy with the choice. More expensive than the Dell yes, but also probably abit better.



JustAnEngineer wrote:Take a look at the Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, on the high end of your budget range.
At least in Europe there was a great backorder log on those. About 3 months worth last i checked. And around here, they even took down the listing of in on the site. Although the cheaper, newer and simpler E248WFP is available at short notice.


Flying Fox wrote:
DrCR wrote:I thought the BenQ FP241W was the best pick for 24"ers but perhaps that has changed in recent times?
A guy at work bought it for his home, I still have to check it out, if ever. I'll report back if I get to see it.
I got one of those and im really happy with it so far. Looks better than my Dell 2005FPW. And it was easier getting hold of than the 2407..


UberGerbil wrote:
DrCR wrote:I thought the BenQ FP241W was the best pick for 24"ers but perhaps that has changed in recent times?
That uses the AU-Optronics M240UW01 panel (P-MVA). Other monitors using the same panel:
LG L246WP
Acer AL2423W (which appears to be discontinued, at least at NewEgg).

Of course the panel is just part of the equation: the backlight, scaler and other electronics can seriously affect the visual quality from otherwise-identical panels, and other features like connections and OSD can be important to the buyer as well.
The comparison site abit above showed the BenQ as a S-PVA, but that might not be correct then?
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Postposted on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:30 pm

mattsteg wrote:http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=2091511&enterthread=y says it uses an AU Optronics P-MVA (M240UW01 V0) Panel.


Sorry for my overlooking your response. That is what I was looking for. Thank you very much.
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Postposted on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:15 pm

hi guys, I been following the thread and I had a couple questions:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824255001

any idea which of the IPS, TN, MVA, and PVA manufactured types that falls into? it talks about wuxga, but that is just meaning the aspect ratio and pixels, not manufactured type of lcd

I found this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824185005

but it looks like the one above was a better deal, and same specs
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Postposted on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:03 pm

The Westinghouse is P-MVA. I'm getting one tomorrow!
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Postposted on Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:14 pm

I haven't had a chance to fully inspect the differences, but this HP monitor is on sale (uses a Samsung panel, S-PVA):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824176059

It's currently $540 after MIR. That's closer to the $500 I was wanting to spend. Anyone have any experience with that particular model?

Of course, there was a refurb WFP2407 for $580 on Dells site.

Tough choice.
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Postposted on Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:59 pm

I know I'm just replying to myself here, but I just found out about the 2707WFP. Basically just a larger screen with the same resolution as the 2407. It's $995 right now at Dell. If they drop the price or I find a coupon for the thing in the $800s, I think I'll be forced to do it.

http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2961
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Postposted on Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:33 pm

computron9000 wrote:I know I'm just replying to myself here, but I just found out about the 2707WFP. Basically just a larger screen with the same resolution as the 2407. It's $995 right now at Dell. If they drop the price or I find a coupon for the thing in the $800s, I think I'll be forced to do it.

http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2961
Personally I think the 2707 has too big pixel size.
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Postposted on Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:32 am

(cos(45)*24) * (sin(45)*24) = 257.5 sq inches for the 2407
(cos(45)*27) * (sin(45)*27) = 325.9 sq inches for the 2707

The 2707 is 26% larger by surface area.

2707 dot pitch: .303
2407 dot pitch: .270

The 2707 dot pitch is only 12% larger. Since the resolutions are identical, we're dealing with pixels per inch.

It would seem reasonable, then, that you could move the monitor further away from your eyes and get a bigger display with similar or better fidelity on the 2707. Unless there is something I'm not considering?

I guess it is a diminished return, since you are going to have to move the monitor back a bit to get 2407 fidelity. You don't get the extra 3" and the accompanying bump in resolution (which would correspond to a lower dot pitch). The big gain would be long distance viewing. 27" is a nice size TV.
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