Toshiba CEO on life after HD-DVD

[Vrock]

From The Wall Street Journal:

Mr. Nishida: What people don't realize is that Hollywood studios are going to release new titles not just for Blu-ray but for standard DVDs as well, and there are a far greater number of current-generation DVD players out there. If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images.

I'm sorry, what? You lost the format war, so now you're telling us that HD isn't all that anyway? You're telling us that you can make upconverting players that will be just as good as true HD players? If that's the case, why'd you invest millions in HD-DVD, you dumbass? OMG, can you say "sour grapes"? Does anyone honestly believe this crap?

[FroBozz_Inc]

DigitalBits has the entire quote and their response:

"What people don't realize is that Hollywood studios are going to release new titles not just for Blu-ray but for standard DVDs as well, and there are a far greater number of current-generation DVD players out there. If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images. The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced."

For the record, this idea that upconverted standard DVD video quality will EVER look as good as true high-definition video is complete hogwash. Upconverting basically takes 480p video and mathematically adds scan lines to increase the effective output resolution to 1080p. The problem is that this process effectively magnifies the original video image. So if the 480p video has warts or defects (whether on the original film print or compression artifacting in the DVD master), those are going to be even more noticeable when upconverted. It's the old "garbage in, garbage out" principle. On the other hand, many of the new transfers being done for true high-definition releases on Blu-ray (and for a time HD-DVD) are actually being done at 2K or even 4K or higher resolution, and then they're downconverted to 1080p. That allows the maximum possible image detail to be included in the signal. An upconverted 480p DVD is NEVER going to be able to compete with that. That's not to say that upconverted DVDs may not be good enough for some consumers, but this idea that you won't be able to tell the difference is utter nonsense. Anyone who becomes interested in high-def, and there are more and more such consumers all the time, will see right through this.

[lethal]

I think its bull too, you can't really make something that will look as good a as high definition video* out of a DVD since much of the details present on the original source are lost when they are compressed to a DVD format. After that, then manipulating the image to try to approximate the original source will more likely introduce artifacts in the picture and leave "fuzziness" where the image is supposed to look sharp, which would be noticeable when comparing both pictures side by side. It's not the first time such claims are made, I recall something similar going on with some software that magically "restores" mp3s and such.

* Of course, you need a good HD display to really appreciate the detail in the picture, if you have a crappy enough display both will look awful and you can claim them to be indistinguishable from each other, but I doubt thats what they are referring to.

[NeXus 6]

It's nonsense for sure. But, a really good upconverting DVD player does look make SD DVDs look really good on 720p/768p displays. It's nowhere near HD but it looks damn near close if the transfer was done properly.

Toshiba wants to keep selling their HD DVD players and that's fine. But for upconverting SD DVDs, there's still a lot of competition in that market.

[Vrock]

The nonsense is that "upconverting" is plugged as a feature when it's really a necessary evil.

[PRIME1]

He sounds like he got all drunk on Sake and was ranting at the bar.

"hic! Who needs HD, nah me hic!"

"hic! upconvertination will be jus as good hic!"

"SCREW WARNER!"

Breaks down sobbing.

[Nitrodist]

Pff, all the trolls coming out to bash the poor business man now? Sheesh, you think his job as a spokeman is to concede negative points about his business?

If you guys notice, the original question was "Aren't you at a disadvantage with just standard DVD players?" and I suppose his answer would be even though they are out of the HD market, they still produce upscaling DVD players that to the untrained consumer's eye is nearly as good as a Blu-ray/HD DVD image. Then he points out that the jump from DVD to Blu-ray isn't nearly as large as the jump from VHS to DVD, thus illustrating his inference that DVD production won't necessarily be left out in the cold as VHS was.

[Vrock]

The nonsense is that "upconverting" is plugged as a feature when it's really a necessary evil.

Needs to be said again. It cannot be said enough.

[SpotTheCat]

Honestly though, I would rather a modern DVD player do the upconverting well than a TV that does it poorly.

Above all I would like all video to be fed into a single, 1080p standard.

[Vrock]

Honestly though, I would rather a modern DVD player do the upconverting well than a TV that does it poorly.

How about a TV that does it well? Most of them do a decent enough job on their own these days, at least any TV that's worth buying.

[SpotTheCat]

Honestly though, I would rather a modern DVD player do the upconverting well than a TV that does it poorly.

How about a TV that does it well? Most of them do a decent enough job on their own these days, at least any TV that's worth buying.

I've seen some TVs that display digital content brilliantly, but do a poor job at old content.

I want everything to be one format again (even regionaly the same!), that was so easy.

[Vrock]

Honestly though, I would rather a modern DVD player do the upconverting well than a TV that does it poorly.

How about a TV that does it well? Most of them do a decent enough job on their own these days, at least any TV that's worth buying.

I've seen some TVs that display digital content brilliantly, but do a poor job at old content.

That's probably because the old content (I can only assume you mean VHS and cable) is low resolution and riddled with artifacts. A new TV is only going to amplify those flaws. It's not the TVs fault, it's the source's.

I want everything to be one format again (even regionaly the same!), that was so easy.

What do you mean "again"? When has everything been one format in the video world?

[bryanl]

How much is good enough?

I have seen this question tossed around quite a bit on the HD issue.

Upconverting is somewhat of a distraction but it should not be confused with simple scaling. There are some names being made by upconverters whose picture processing significantly improves picture quality. In other words, there is a lot of signal enhancement going on, too. (this technology also shows in digital cameras and how they are getting to where they have face recognition and such)

It is true that if you put a direct comparison and contrast on appropriate equipment of HD DVD to DVD that the HD is better. But most folks don't yet have the appropriate equipment. A standard 720x480p DVD with good film transfer and appropriate equipment can provide a very close approximation to HD quality. It is good enough that many agree with Mr. Nishida as far as image quality.

There is another issue that fits in here as well. It is the trend towards other video sources and media. On demand via cable or I'net as well as local mass media storage might also influence HD permanent media like BluRay.

Standard DVD was significantly higher in quality than what it replaced and had other advantages as well. HD's higher quality is not so clear and it offers few other advantages. That muddies the water a bit as far as where the market will go.

[FroBozz_Inc]

http://www.reuters.com/article/technolo ... 6020080313

Toshiba stands to loose nearly a billion dollars (250 billion yen) as a result of lossing the format battle. Zowie!

[Vrock]

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST28076020080313

Toshiba stands to lose nearly a billion dollars (250 billion yen) as a result of losing the format battle. Zowie!

[PRIME1]

Maybe they can "upconvert" the loss so it won't look so bad.

[FroBozz_Inc]

What the heck is going on with this?

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/1128 ... k-why.aspx

One Japanese report appeared to suggest that the new technology would be able produce much higher-resolution images from existing DVDs, but did not address the apparent impossibility of this claim.

Sounds like upconverting reloaded.