Ideal Monitor

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Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:48 am

I'm still a CRT holdout, I'm running an FW900 - the greatest CRT ever made by man - but it is slowly dieing and there is nothing I can do to revive it... :cry: As eager as I am to get a new screen it seems there is nothing out there that will be exactly what I want - and remain exactly what I want for as long as my trusty Trinitron friends have...

Here's the specs of what I would consider my ideal LCD monitor(ranked in order of importance):

1. 1920x1200 - I run at 2048x1280 right now, so anything much less is out of the question
2. 22" - because I like my pixels on the small size (negative for anything less than 1920x1200)
3. <$800 - I'm willing to pay above average for just the right specs
4. S-IPS or S-PVA - because I've seen enough TNs to know that I'd prefer not to own one
5. Glossy screen - as a cave dweller there won't be glare problems and I prefer the look
6. LED backlight - because I've heard they look so much better - haven't seen one in person though

Nothing out there hits all of those marks, but a few of them manage 3-4 which is pretty good...

Potential candidates:
1. Lenovo L220x - this has been my first choice for a long time, provides my top 4 choices
2. ViewSonic VLED221wm - brand new on my radar, hits 3, 5, & 6 however 1680x1050 is a huge negative and cost is pushing the limit
3. DoubleSight DS-245W - has had my attention for awhile, hits 1, 3, & 4
4. SAMSUNG 245BW - nice semi-generic 24" display, hits 1 & 3 - I like Samsung screens historically
5. DoubleSight DS-263N - per recommendations in this thread and on Anandtech - sounds like a sweet panel but it's pretty large, hits 1, 3, & 4
6. Gateway FHD2400 - I almost included this on my list the first time - it seems well liked by most, hits 1, 3, & 5


I don't care about HDMI, HDCP, USB ports, any input other than DVI, speakers, misc garbage... I just want a screen for gaming and basic desktop activities than has awesome picture quality. I'm not too concerned about response time, everything seems to be just fine these days but I've never gamed on an LCD and I've never even seem someone game on a S-PVA panel which is one thing that makes me nervous about them, the input lag - I'm not super hardcore or anything though, so I think it will be fine but I'd like some feedback...

I know I'm not likely to get LED backlighting for anything less than the Viewsonic for quite awhile (certainly not with 1920x1200 and a non-TN panel), and I know I ranked it and the glossy screen low on importance, but I just can't let go of them to make the otherwise obvious choice of getting a L220x... I feel like I should keep waiting, but I'm not sure what I want exactly will ever exist... Thoughts???
Last edited by drfish on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:20 pm

I feel sorry for your loss, hope it can hang on a bit longer.

Don't forget the NEC's, they are probably the best S-IPS panels that you can get now. Remember S-IPS won't be fast for shooter games though.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:32 pm

That 24" Samsung is a TN, so avoid it. The Viewsonic is also a TN, so I wouldn't bother if you want good viewing angles.

My 24" LG uses a VA panel and gaming is fine with minimal ghosting a low input lag. I think the DoubleSight and Lenovo are probably good choices for the price. Better VA and S-IPS panels are going to cost a lot more. You might want to check out this 24" Samsung, which uses a S-PVA panel:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001246

Or this 24" NEC:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002359

Edit: The NEC is a TN panel. Scratch that one.
Last edited by NeXus 6 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:43 pm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... %2bDS-263N

this one is bigger than your expected size, but its approved by the gurus @ anand.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... id=2049206

DoubleSight DS-263N, 25.5". H-IPS, HDCP, all the scaling options, <1 frame input lag, good response, attractive price, honest advertising. Seriously, what else could you want? $699.99 at Newegg.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:29 pm

Well, you know I had my own search for a display, and which also had me leaving the 24" Sony CRT world.
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55228

I went to a larger 1080P LCD and never looked back.

However, as you want a higher rez then that, I think you may need to up your budget a bit.
(I am guessing you dont want to go to a larger screen because the pixels get larger unless the rez goes up)
Lets check the math, although I suck at math.

2048x1280 = 2,621,440 on a 22" screen. (thats 119,156 pixels per inch)

Newegg has some 24" to 28" LCDs with 1920x1200 = 2,304,000, if that works for you. (thats 96,000 pixels per inch on the 24" screen)

Newegg has LCDs, all 30" @ 2560 x 1600 = 4,096,000 for $1200 and up. (thats 136,533 pixels per inch on the 30" screen)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... rchInDesc=

I like the Gateway the best.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824113013

It is worth it though in my book though if u can afford it, as a display is something you only buy every 3-6 years or so, while the rest of your PCs get upgraded much more often.

I cant help with price or size, but at least we can see what screens will get you pixels that compare to your current rez.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:43 pm

lethal,
That Anandtech thread is AWESOME, thanks, that will keep me busy tonight... I really don't want anything larger than 24" though - and I know I only have one option at 22" for 1920x1200...

Dposcorp,
I would kill for a 24" 2560x1600 display, but it's such a pipe dream that I didn't even mention it. :( 30" is too big and too expensive... I'd be willing to go for $800 on a screen that hit all 6 of my marks, but I'd rather spend $400-$500...
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:39 pm

lethal wrote:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185007&Tpk=DoubleSight%2bDS-263N

this one is bigger than your expected size, but its approved by the gurus @ anand.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... id=2049206

DoubleSight DS-263N, 25.5". H-IPS, HDCP, all the scaling options, <1 frame input lag, good response, attractive price, honest advertising. Seriously, what else could you want? $699.99 at Newegg.

Was going to post the same suggestion. Heard a lot of good reviews about it. However, it frequently goes out-of-stock, and not a lot is known about the company.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:07 am

Yeah, that thread sure is making that one sound interesting... I guess I could always push the screen further backon my desk to make the pixels look smaller... Hmmm...

I'm also tempted by the Gateway FHD2400. I know it's a TN panel, but the price is lower and it has the glossly screen... Viewing angle isn't that important to me as long as the colors don't change just because the screen is slightly tilted back or something... Also the stand is nicer...
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:35 am

Do not get a TN panel. You can't replace/upgrade your eyes yet. With a 24" screen, you will get viewing angle issues. Unless this is strictly a fps monitor.

Like you get an expensive 4870 X2 to drive the thing for the image quality and eye candies, but then to your horror the colours are off. That makes no sense. :o
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:05 am

Flying Fox wrote:Unless this is strictly a fps monitor.


Honestly it is nearly just that, well, and other games, TBS and RTS, some Spore in the near future, etc - except for some web surfing and misc. geeking around... When I say I want "awesome" image quality it's more about the visuals "popping" than it is about color accuracy and that kind of thing (ie. none of that super overly saturated stuff - something that is close to accurate, but I'm not doing anything professional) . I won't stand for even subtle viewing angle issues though, I'll never be looking at the screen from any place other than right in front of it, but if the corners start to look funny when it's just that then it's not good. I'm spoiled by the FW900, but I still probably don't fully appreciate it, I'd hate to get something lesser - so that's why the higher end panels are appealing, I know they are the modern equivalent of my 90lbs beast...

At this point my 1st choice seems to have swayed to the DS-263N - however the L220x is still looking very good because of the smaller size (and lower cost)... I think it's either one of them or continue to wait and just suffer with my slowing dieing CRT until something with more of the features I'm looking for is out... ...it's just that I like the glossy so much it's hard to pick one without it... :-?

Edit: Looks like the DS-265W is coming out soon with a better stand and some cosmetic changes but the otherwise the same panel...
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:30 am

I just ordered an L220x. Not a big fan of glossiness on monitors. :wink:
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:29 am

Saw your post on the front page... Can you give a little more detail on how you like the L220x? Do you do any gaming on it?
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:59 am

The newer DS-265W has just arrived to newegg:

http://www.doublesight.com/product/?idx=26
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824185010

No reviews of it online yet though.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:10 pm

Thoughts on the L220X:

First off, this is my first non-TFTTN LCD, so I may be naively awed by how good it looks. The color-ness is awesome, for lack of an objective word. Combined with the extremely high dot pitch, I often feel like I'm looking at a photo, not a monitor. It's definitely great for "content creation" work, not that I really do any, but even web browsing and word processing feels nice and crisp. PDFs are extremely crisp. I also watched a 1080p rip, which was absolutely glorious.

Gaming: the only games I've played recently are the HL2 series. I was playing Episode 2 a few weeks ago, and it looked fabulous. (This monitor was a great excuse to get a 4850.) If you've got something you're concerned about, I can look into it.

The main caveat of this monitor is probably its input scaling behavior. It stretches everything to the full area; no padding with black bars. I haven't tried older games of mine, but I expect that they will fullscreen all stretched out. There exists a program called d3dwindower that forces window mode on Direct3D apps, but it's not an ideal solution. (I might use this as an excuse to learn the DVI interface and create a device to pad things properly.)

Two minor nitpicks: brightness and color. The monitor is way too bright at 100%, and even 0% is pretty bright. Due to the L220x's wide color gamut, reds in icons and the internet can be very bright looking; but it's not a problem in photos or movies.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with this monitor, and at $400 from Provantage it's a great value.
Last edited by mako on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:29 pm

I'm using the Dell 2407 HC, a 24" 1920x1200 panel that was about $700 when I purchased it. I can't imagine finding a better monitor anywhere for this price. I thoroughly enjoy using it.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:20 pm

mako wrote:Thoughts on the L220X:

First off, this is my first non-TFT LCD,
I thought by definition modern day LCD monitors are TFT?
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:25 pm

I think he meant TN.

Thanks for that feedback mako I can't wait for mine to show up! :D
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:29 pm

drfish wrote:Thanks for that feedback mako I can't wait for mine to show up! :D
I expect you to do better with pictures. ;)
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:52 am

Yeah, I meant TN, doh.

Ask and ye shall receive... a lousy picture.

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Congrats on your choice, drfish. :D
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:17 am

HP has 2 new panels, the 24-inch LP2475W (~ US$ 650) and the 22-inch LP2275W (~ US$ 400), which are IPS and PVA, respectively. The 24-inch model and the new DS-265W from DoubleSight (asli IPS, ~ US$ 780) would be the two on my short list.

HP LP2475W, 24" IPS
HP LP2275W, 22" PVA
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:20 am

Well my L220x will arrive today so it's too late for me. :D Of course the place I bought it from lowered the price on Tuesday from $399 to $372 - but it was free shipping so I won't lose too much sleep over ~$25... :-?

It took about 6 hours total, but I got ready for the monitor by booting up my Vista install for the first time in ages and installing SP1 (8007000D FTL! :( - turned out I couldn't install SP1 until I allowed Windows Update to do everything leading up to SP1 - what the heck is the point of a service pack then? :x Of course WU was broke beyond repair on my old install for no reason so it took 3 reinstalls before I figured it out, oh, and don't forget that I have to install it with only 2GB in my system and the X-Fi pulled out or it crashes - sheesh! :roll: ). But at least now I'll have a pretty OS to go with my pretty screen.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:17 am

mako wrote:Yeah, I meant TN, doh.

Ask and ye shall receive... a lousy picture.

Image

Congrats on your choice, drfish. :D

set your white balance to the highest florescent setting it has when you take a picture of a monitor. It will show more how the monitor actually looks.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:11 am

edh wrote:HP has 2 new panels, the 24-inch LP2475W (~ US$ 650) and the 22-inch LP2275W (~ US$ 400), which are IPS and PVA, respectively. The 24-inch model and the new DS-265W from DoubleSight (asli IPS, ~ US$ 780) would be the two on my short list.

HP LP2475W, 24" IPS
HP LP2275W, 22" PVA

Judging by the 36-page (and counting) thread at the [H], that IPS 24" looks to be a decent choice.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:38 am

Flying Fox wrote:
edh wrote:HP has 2 new panels, the 24-inch LP2475W (~ US$ 650) and the 22-inch LP2275W (~ US$ 400), which are IPS and PVA, respectively. The 24-inch model and the new DS-265W from DoubleSight (asli IPS, ~ US$ 780) would be the two on my short list.

HP LP2475W, 24" IPS
HP LP2275W, 22" PVA

Judging by the 36-page (and counting) thread at the [H], that IPS 24" looks to be a decent choice.
It's getting some good press over at AnandTech, too. Given that its array of connections matches the Dell 2408FPW, it's faster, and it's IPS to the Dell's PVA, it is almost a no-brainer. The only other option newly on the market that makes sense to me is the new DoubleSight DS-265W, which is a 25.5-inch screen to the HP's 24, matches all the ergonomic features, but lacks the extra connectivity (has only 1 DVI connection and lacks both HDMI and DisplayPort).

HP LP2475W Review by Simon Baker on TFT Central.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:09 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
drfish wrote:Thanks for that feedback mako I can't wait for mine to show up! :D
I expect you to do better with pictures. ;)


Probably not much, but here's one anyway...

I just got done playing some TF2 and there was no noticable input lag - at first I thought there was, but it was because I hadn't changed my mouse sensitivity since installing Steam on Vista... It's slightly smaller than my FDW900 diagonally but I'm glad because it keeps the pixels nearly exactly the same size, I do miss running at the non-standard res of 2048x1280 but the lack of pixels is much better on a 22" than it would be if the screen was stretched to 24" - and well, the fps bump has to count for something... I lowered the brightness by about 10% out of the box, but otherwise everything looked great right off. I'm very, very, very pleased right now. :D

It is without a doubt the most beautiful display I've ever seen. It's a steal for ~$375! :o
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:33 pm

edh wrote:HP has 2 new panels, the 24-inch LP2475W (~ US$ 650) and the 22-inch LP2275W (~ US$ 400), which are IPS and PVA, respectively. The 24-inch model and the new DS-265W from DoubleSight (asli IPS, ~ US$ 780) would be the two on my short list.

HP LP2475W, 24" IPS
HP LP2275W, 22" PVA

Nice going HP! Finally someone injects some much needed life in the quality but still reasonably priced monitor market. Hopefully both of these models pan out as being good so we have more choice in 1920x1200 *VA/IPS monitors.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:16 pm

drfish wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
drfish wrote:Thanks for that feedback mako I can't wait for mine to show up! :D
I expect you to do better with pictures. ;)


Probably not much, but here's one anyway...

I just got done playing some TF2 and there was no noticable input lag - at first I thought there was, but it was because I hadn't changed my mouse sensitivity since installing Steam on Vista... It's slightly smaller than my FDW900 diagonally but I'm glad because it keeps the pixels nearly exactly the same size, I do miss running at the non-standard res of 2048x1280 but the lack of pixels is much better on a 22" than it would be if the screen was stretched to 24" - and well, the fps bump has to count for something... I lowered the brightness by about 10% out of the box, but otherwise everything looked great right off. I'm very, very, very pleased right now. :D

It is without a doubt the most beautiful display I've ever seen. It's a steal for ~$375! :o


Awesome, I've been beating my head against the wall trying to find a monitor that doesn't suck!

So, is the Lenovo L220x a TN screen, or?
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:38 pm

Hawke_cr wrote:So, is the Lenovo L220x a TN screen, or?
No, it's an S-PVA. The X-bit labs review was in the Shortbread a couple days ago but I'll post it here for posterity's sake.
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:01 pm

We seem to be entering the age of large & affordable PVA/IPS monitors. :D
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Re: Ideal Monitor

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:14 pm

mako wrote:We seem to be entering the age of large & affordable PVA/IPS monitors. :D

More like they are getting rid of these inventory of "old" monitors so they can push 16:9 crappy TN glossy screens on us full throttle. :evil:

But I guess I should just hold out some hope?
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