New 5D Teaser

What you see is what you get, including photography, displays, and video equipment.

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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:24 pm

crazybus wrote:The high-ISO performance actually looks pretty good. I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison against the D700 and A900 testing noise, AF performance and dynamic range.


Yeah, noise doesn't get bad until about 12k ISO. That's crazy.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:59 pm

It's amazing that there are always fools who will believe that inferior technology is "more buttery" or some other BS. That insanity doesn't much relate to discussion of this wonderful new camera.

I'm similarly amused by people that think "bigger number equals t3h b3tt3rzzz". But I guess it's impossible that subjective aesthetic opinion could be more significant to some people than the proclamations of a user manual or press release.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:12 am

SPOOFE wrote:
It's amazing that there are always fools who will believe that inferior technology is "more buttery" or some other BS. That insanity doesn't much relate to discussion of this wonderful new camera.

I'm similarly amused by people that think "bigger number equals t3h b3tt3rzzz". But I guess it's impossible that subjective aesthetic opinion could be more significant to some people than the proclamations of a user manual or press release.


+1
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:40 am

crazybus wrote:I don't know about that. Unless you intentionally shoot at exposure times that minimize the perceived difference (ie. faster shutter with 30p and slower with 24p), I find it extremely easy to tell the difference. Whether or not the average person would consciously know the difference is debatable, but sub-consciously I think most people would notice something strange about the image.


I know I picked up on the fact that movies looked somehow "different" from something like the news, and didn't understand why until I found out the framerate difference... but I could tell the difference.

I don't think it'd be a "ZOMG THIS IS SHOT IN 30 FPS THEREFORE IT'S NOT SUITABLE FOR A MOVIE" thing, even with me knowing the difference, though.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:47 am

30p is superior to 24p. If you want motion-blur, you can do that at either frame rate. You may need a slightly different multiplier to get the same temporal effects, but there's nothing that can be done in 24p that cannot be done better in 30p, or eventually, in 60p.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:59 am

bhtooefr wrote:
I know I picked up on the fact that movies looked somehow "different" from something like the news, and didn't understand why until I found out the framerate difference... but I could tell the difference.

I don't think it'd be a "ZOMG THIS IS SHOT IN 30 FPS THEREFORE IT'S NOT SUITABLE FOR A MOVIE" thing, even with me knowing the difference, though.

different, yes. kinda how Rosie O Donnell looks different than Jessica Alba.
any movie (@24p) with lots of action looks like pure crap.

As, JAE said.. if you want to make things look like crap, you can do so after recording them at high speed.. just toss out frames & add all the jerkiness and Rosie-style effects later if you want that look. :D
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:28 pm

30p is superior to 24p. If you want motion-blur, you can do that at either frame rate. You may need a slightly different multiplier to get the same temporal effects, but there's nothing that can be done in 24p that cannot be done better in 30p, or eventually, in 60p.

There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p. I don't know what you think you're trying to prove other than your supernatural ability to mindlessly repeat yourself.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:34 pm

SPOOFE wrote:There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p.
You could try that again in English, but don't bother. Logic obviously doesn't matter to you.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:47 pm

SPOOFE wrote:
30p is superior to 24p. If you want motion-blur, you can do that at either frame rate. You may need a slightly different multiplier to get the same temporal effects, but there's nothing that can be done in 24p that cannot be done better in 30p, or eventually, in 60p.

There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p. I don't know what you think you're trying to prove other than your supernatural ability to mindlessly repeat yourself.


i think you were trying to say that you can do anything with 24p that you can do with 30p, which is logically flawed. with 30p you have 6 extra frames every second.. you cant magically make those appear if you dont have them to start with. however, if you recorded with 30p or greater, you can remove unwanted frames.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:46 pm

danny e. wrote:however, if you recorded with 30p or greater, you can remove unwanted frames.
You can't just recreate 24p by decimating the framerate of 30p material. You would need some type of software resampling to cook up new intermediary frames or it will definitely look jerky.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:37 am

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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:20 pm

i think you were trying to say that you can do anything with 24p that you can do with 30p, which is logically flawed. with 30p you have 6 extra frames every second..

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. I said exactly what I said:

"There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p."

By all means, suggest some story element or plot point or scene or mannerism or action or behavior that cannot be presented in 24p. I'll wait. Very patiently.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:30 pm

SPOOFE wrote:
i think you were trying to say that you can do anything with 24p that you can do with 30p, which is logically flawed. with 30p you have 6 extra frames every second..

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. I said exactly what I said:

"There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p."

By all means, suggest some story element or plot point or scene or mannerism or action or behavior that cannot be presented in 24p. I'll wait. Very patiently.

Well, I detest sweeping pans in 24p. No, this isn't just a dislike of judder as I hate them at the theatre as well (more actually, as the size of the screen amplifies the effect).

Hell, you could present things in 1p as well. In many cases they just wouldn't be very appealing, but you could still present them. I'd love for the movie industry to lose its fixation with 24 fps, to be honest.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:40 pm

Hey, I'm not saying you have to like it. But certainly you recognize that a lot of people do, for whatever reason. Surely you understand that there's a lot of money spent to recreate the "film look". And don't even start with "That's just how people are accustomed to blah blah blah" because everyone knows that already; all that matters is that there are people that like how it looks. That's the only assertion I've made, and for some reason, that assertion really seems to bother a couple folks, which is just terribly amusing to me, frankly.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:43 pm

SPOOFE wrote:Hey, I'm not saying you have to like it. But certainly you recognize that a lot of people do, for whatever reason. Surely you understand that there's a lot of money spent to recreate the "film look". And don't even start with "That's just how people are accustomed to blah blah blah" because everyone knows that already; all that matters is that there are people that like how it looks. That's the only assertion I've made, and for some reason, that assertion really seems to bother a couple folks, which is just terribly amusing to me, frankly.

Yeah, having 20% fewer frames per second isn't going to be a night and day difference. I prefer 30 (or honestly even 60), but 24 generally gets the job done.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:16 pm

SPOOFE wrote:Hey, I'm not saying you have to like it. But certainly you recognize that a lot of people do, for whatever reason. Surely you understand that there's a lot of money spent to recreate the "film look". And don't even start with "That's just how people are accustomed to blah blah blah" because everyone knows that already; all that matters is that there are people that like how it looks. That's the only assertion I've made, and for some reason, that assertion really seems to bother a couple folks, which is just terribly amusing to me, frankly.

I think that anyone who 'prefers' it only does so because they think they are supposed to. That's just the general human psychiatry. For example, when watching some of the olympics, I don't understand alot of the subject scoring in things like diving or gymnastics, but when they show someone who 'does it like they are supposed to' then I mentally decide that certain aspects of their performance must have been how things are supposed to be done, and so in the future when looking at a performance, I'll see said aspects and think "oh wow, they're good" when in reality they might not be any better than the next person. I'm sure there's a term for that, and I apologize for not providing the best explanation.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:23 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
SPOOFE wrote:Hey, I'm not saying you have to like it. But certainly you recognize that a lot of people do, for whatever reason. Surely you understand that there's a lot of money spent to recreate the "film look". And don't even start with "That's just how people are accustomed to blah blah blah" because everyone knows that already; all that matters is that there are people that like how it looks. That's the only assertion I've made, and for some reason, that assertion really seems to bother a couple folks, which is just terribly amusing to me, frankly.

I think that anyone who 'prefers' it only does so because they think they are supposed to. That's just the general human psychiatry. For example, when watching some of the olympics, I don't understand alot of the subject scoring in things like diving or gymnastics, but when they show someone who 'does it like they are supposed to' then I mentally decide that certain aspects of their performance must have been how things are supposed to be done, and so in the future when looking at a performance, I'll see said aspects and think "oh wow, they're good" when in reality they might not be any better than the next person. I'm sure there's a term for that, and I apologize for not providing the best explanation.

That's a bit of a narrow view. In diving, for example, the goal is to replicate xxx move to perfection. Deviation from that, by definition, is worse. It's a technical pursuit (and a bad example).

In terms of people preferring various aesthetics, there's quite a bit more that goes with it. Movies are not and have never been strictly about reproducing a canned reality as much as possible. They're about setting a mood, telling a story, stimulating the mind of the viewer, etc. Everything from film stock to image processing to framing to lens to aperture is selected to convey SOMETHING. Someone may like black and white films. Do they like them because they've been conditioned to? Maybe, maybe not. I loved the use of B&W to open up the latest bond film, for example. I thought that, "imperfect" as it may be in many ways, it did a phenomenal way of setting the tone for the film that followed.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:20 pm

SPOOFE wrote:
i think you were trying to say that you can do anything with 24p that you can do with 30p, which is logically flawed. with 30p you have 6 extra frames every second..

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. I said exactly what I said:
"There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p."

ugh. like lots of negatives eh?

maybe my original comment was correct. :roll:

"nothing cannot" == "everything can"
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:10 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:Don't know if anyone else saw this:
http://gizmodo.com/5052767/a-taste-of-t ... l-hd-video

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... o-reverie/

The video is now out.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:50 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:Don't know if anyone else saw this:
http://gizmodo.com/5052767/a-taste-of-t ... l-hd-video

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... o-reverie/

The video is now out.


Wow, that looked great.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:55 pm

Damn.

That's all I've got to say.

:eek:
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:24 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:Don't know if anyone else saw this:
http://gizmodo.com/5052767/a-taste-of-t ... l-hd-video

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/ ... o-reverie/

The video is now out.

that video is rather cool. i'm almost swayed.
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:32 pm

He only had the camera for three days too...now I want to try it out for a day as well
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Re: New 5D Teaser

Postposted on Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:58 pm

danny e. wrote:
SPOOFE wrote:
i think you were trying to say that you can do anything with 24p that you can do with 30p, which is logically flawed. with 30p you have 6 extra frames every second..

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. I said exactly what I said:
"There is nothing that cannot be presented in 30p that cannot be presented in 24p."

ugh. like lots of negatives eh?

maybe my original comment was correct. :roll:

"nothing cannot" == "everything can"

The part you misunderstood was the word "presented". There is nothing inherent to 30p that allows it to show a scene, mood, interaction, etc. etc. that cannot also be shown on 24p. Some people may prefer how certain things are shown in 30p vs. 24p; action and panning shots were mentioned, and I agree. On the other hand, the slight, slight stutteriness of 24p has a heavy impact on, say, an intense drama like The Godfather or something. 30p accentuates slight, insignificant movements more than 24p, which makes a still person look really stock-still. Pros and cons, man, that's all I'm getting at.
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