branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

What you see is what you get, including photography, displays, and video equipment.

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branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:01 pm

UberGerbil wrote:
SpotTheCat wrote:Very important to notice, yet if you look at the difference between TN and a new S-IPS it really shows how awesome S-IPS is.
Yes, just scroll through this page on a TN monitor and then on an IPS (or PVA or CRT) to see the difference. I was starting to think modern TN screens were getting good enough that this wouldn't matter (much) for non-graphic work, but last week I was using someone's 24" TN and I found that the color shift for off-axis (vertical) pixels was still bugging me. Even with the monitor centered on my eyes, the top of the screen was far enough off-axis that (for example) the text in the address bar of a maximized browser window was showing weird color fringing (which I mistook for misconfigured ClearType until I grasped what was going on).

Here is the difference between TN and S-IPS. Note that neither monitor is calibrated, and I tried to match brightness as best I can. The pictures are taken from normal viewing distance to for the 20.1" monitor (S-IPS), not the smaller 13.3"(TN).

Starting head on, not much difference. S-IPS is a bit better.
Image
And here are some other view angles. Notice how consistent the S-IPS monitor is, and how wildly the TN monitor varies with viewing angle. On a larger display, you can actually see all of this at once on the sides (and especially corners) of the screen.
Image
Image
Image
So. If you can afford it, don't buy a TN panel.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:08 pm

I about went batty playing with a few photos on my parents' monitor this weekend.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:11 pm

I just realized that the color is more off in the pictures than what seems in real life. I suspect this is because the little laptop is LED lit and the monitor is CFL.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:44 pm

I don't get it. Which one is the TN panel? What is the exact hardware being compared here?

Maybe what's really throwing me off is the big screen in the back looks worse on the first pic. Does that laptop have the default Vista / Window monitor drivers installed? Does the desktop?
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:47 pm

JdL wrote:I don't get it. Which one is the TN panel? What is the exact hardware being compared here?

Maybe what's really throwing me off is the big screen in the back looks worse on the first pic. Does that laptop have the default Vista / Window monitor drivers installed? Does the desktop?

Worse?

It's pretty obvious which is the TN, and exact hardware doesn't really matter.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:57 pm

mattsteg wrote:Worse?

Ok, not knowing off the top of my head what the test was checking for is what threw me off. So my own ignorance threw me off.

*mumbles something unintelligible about always having to read the fine print... *
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:59 pm

mattsteg wrote:
JdL wrote:I don't get it. Which one is the TN panel? What is the exact hardware being compared here?

Maybe what's really throwing me off is the big screen in the back looks worse on the first pic. Does that laptop have the default Vista / Window monitor drivers installed? Does the desktop?

Worse?

It's pretty obvious which is the TN, and exact hardware doesn't really matter.

You know, this post might have been helpful had you bothered to answer his questions, as opposed to pontificate. If you thought it wasn't worth answering, they why reply?
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:01 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
mattsteg wrote:
JdL wrote:I don't get it. Which one is the TN panel? What is the exact hardware being compared here?

Maybe what's really throwing me off is the big screen in the back looks worse on the first pic. Does that laptop have the default Vista / Window monitor drivers installed? Does the desktop?

Worse?

It's pretty obvious which is the TN, and exact hardware doesn't really matter.

You know, this post might have been helpful had you bothered to answer his questions, as opposed to pontificate. If you thought it wasn't worth answering, they why reply?

It's not difficult to say the same about your reply.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:33 pm

It's a valid question. The first picture looks worse because the focus is off (didn't know until I uploaded it, too lazy to retake it. That's all. Ideally you would barely be able to read the 'lagom' text on either screen. Notice how depending on where you are looking, the TN panel (the little one) changes dramatically. A lot of people don't care about this. It makes judging what color something is very difficult.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:43 pm

Yes, keep in mind the image displayed on the screens is exactly the same in all the photos; just the position of the camera has changed. Now imagine that laptop screen is much larger, and your eyes are positioned in about the center, and you have to look up to see the top pixels and down to see the bottom pixels (and side to side as well, especially if it's a wide screen). How much do you trust what you're seeing?
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:49 pm

Well, I'd say it's a synthetic, meaningless test, because I have a ViewSonic VP171b TN panel and despite the fact that it's like 5 years old now it's still better or on par with most of the screens on shelves. I haven't noticed any distortions while gaming or working as well. Maybe a bit of the back light flooding in DOOM 3. Other than that, no complains. Scored 4 on that strange HUE test too. Went through that LCD test page with awesome results as well, except sub pixel alignment 4a or 4b.

So my opinion is that those TN panels are not as bad as most of people draw them. Most likely you'll never notice a difference.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:42 pm

And the CRT beats them both, still. *sigh*
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:06 pm

I got my first TN panel in this Dell laptop I just salvaged.

15.4" of YOU-BETTER-BE-LOOKING-STRAIGHT-IN.

It looks fine when I'm dead on, but if I slouch a little, my blacks wrap to a glowy purple, and if I sit up extra straight, everything starts to wash out to greys. When I'm in bed at night, the wife can not watch movies/shows with me anymore. If she's more than 20-30° off of centerline, she complains that she can't see anything, and the colors are inverted. She's about as non-picky as they come.

Needless to say, I'll be working very very hard to avoid TN panels in the future, especially in laptops.

Edit: FWIW I got a 4 in the hue test on this TN panel in the hue test too, and my color vision is rather poor. I then easily smacked out a zero on my Dell 2000FP (SIPS?) and a CRT as well.

Edit edit: Click on the link in Vrock's sig. He's only at 1 million of 5 million views. It's a good cause, dammit.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:41 pm

Nice sig, Forge. :P
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:58 pm

Forge wrote:Edit edit: Click on the link in Vrock's sig. He's only at 1 million of 5 million views. It's a good cause, dammit.

Reset your modem so you can get a new IP Address assigned then click the link again!
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:10 pm

titan wrote:
Forge wrote:Edit edit: Click on the link in Vrock's sig. He's only at 1 million of 5 million views. It's a good cause, dammit.

Reset your modem so you can get a new IP Address assigned then click the link again!


Comcast around here actually started semi-persistent IP/MAC mappings to prevent that type of abuse.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:49 am

Madman wrote:So my opinion is that those TN panels are not as bad as most of people draw them. Most likely you'll never notice a difference.
Seriously, if you don't see any issues on that Viewing Angle test, you either have the most amazing TN panel ever created (and a unique one unseen by anyone else) or you're blind unbelievably tolerant of something that drives a lot of us completely up the wall.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:54 pm

Well, ViewSonic screens are pretty good. I can notice the color problems, but that doesn't bother me in everyday use. When you do tests, then yea...
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:13 pm

Madman wrote:Well, ViewSonic screens are pretty good. I can notice the color problems, but that doesn't bother me in everyday use. When you do tests, then yea...

I agree and disagree. For everything that I normally use my laptop for (web, email, MS office) it's fine. For light gaming (dota) it's fine. Watching TV shows it's fine, if I'm the only one watching. Looking at photos it's not fine at all.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:14 pm

Madman wrote:Well, ViewSonic screens are pretty good. I can notice the color problems, but that doesn't bother me in everyday use. When you do tests, then yea...
Well, like I said in the other thread, I could see TN-induced fringing around characters towards the top and bottom of a 24" screen, no synthetic tests required. Trying to do any kind of color-sensitive work in Photoshop (etc) anywhere but dead center of the screen has the same problem, but I wouldn't expect to do that on a TN screen anyway. But just seeing it in the browser address bar is a deal killer for me.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:14 pm

SpotTheCat wrote:
Madman wrote:Well, ViewSonic screens are pretty good. I can notice the color problems, but that doesn't bother me in everyday use. When you do tests, then yea...

I agree and disagree. For everything that I normally use my laptop for (web, email, MS office) it's fine. For light gaming (dota) it's fine. Watching TV shows it's fine, if I'm the only one watching. Looking at photos it's not fine at all.

And for working with those photos...it's godawful. Hooray for S-IPS.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:38 am

Not that bad :roll: I do a lot of photo stuff and since it's a 17" I wouldn't say it's any worse than non-pro CRTs.
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:44 am

Madman wrote:Not that bad :roll: I do a lot of photo stuff and since it's a 17" I wouldn't say it's any worse than non-pro CRTs.

:roll: :lol:
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Re: branch from 100 Hue test - TN vs the world

Postposted on Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:30 pm

mattsteg wrote:
Madman wrote:Not that bad :roll: I do a lot of photo stuff and since it's a 17" I wouldn't say it's any worse than non-pro CRTs.

:roll: :lol:

And I was wondering why they called him Madman. :lol:
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