Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

What you see is what you get, including photography, displays, and video equipment.

Moderators: Dposcorp, SpotTheCat

Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:03 am

Pretty much all LCDs I've ever looked at in the dark have uneven backlighting. This is not just distracting, it's an absolute DEAL BREAKER for watching movies in the dark, especially dark movies. Why can't CEMs make a LCD TV with a uniform backlight? Keep the useless 120/240hz crap, interactive yahoo widget nonsense, etc...and deliver a uniform backlight, that's all I ask.

Anyone here have a 52" or greater LCD that doesn't have backlight uniformity problems?
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:07 am

That just on the fluorescent backlit ones, or have you looked at LED-backlit models?
Think for yourself, schmuck!
i5-2500K@4.3|Asus P8P67-LE|8GB DDR3-1600|Powercolor R7850 2G|1.5TB 7200.11|1988 Model M|Saitek X-45 & P880|Logitech MX 518|Dell 2209WA|Sennheiser PC151|Asus Xonar DX
bthylafh
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3131
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:55 pm
Location: Southwest Missouri, USA

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:11 am

Piss on a backlit screen. Go get yourself a 3-chip or 3-LCD panel projector if you like watching movies in the dark. THEN lighting gets uneven when someone walks between the screen and the projector while getting beer and popcorn. Then you can also get a 120" image from devices which can tuck away into the ceiling when not in use.

Seriously, I don't understand why projectors are not more popular. When mine actually operated, it was the coolest thing to watch movies on. Truly immersive. Drawback is watching in daytime, you need a dark room. I am waiting to save some $$$ and my son gets older to replace the old standard resolution projector with a high-def version.
liquidsquid
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2447
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 10:49 am
Location: New York

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:27 am

bthylafh wrote:That just on the fluorescent backlit ones, or have you looked at LED-backlit models?
There's problems there, too, from what I've read. At least with the edge lit models that don't feature local dimming.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:29 am

liquidsquid wrote:Seriously, I don't understand why projectors are not more popular.
Because they require a heavy up front investment in a screen, mounting device, cable routing, light control, etc. I had a projector once, and it was okay, but I find that TVs suit my needs better.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:34 am

Every projector I've ever used has a pretty loud fan, compared to a TV. I've skipped them for fan noise alone.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do.
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 21259
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: WHAT?

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:37 am

Get a plasma instead of an LCD then?
Having twins has dramatically reduced the time I have to nerd out.
Corrado
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Gilbertsville, PA

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:51 am

Corrado wrote:Get a plasma instead of an LCD then?
Can't. I see yellow/blue streaks in high contrast scenes with plasma. It's particularly noticeable when watching in the dark, and it gives me a headache.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:54 am

derFunkenstein wrote:Every projector I've ever used has a pretty loud fan, compared to a TV. I've skipped them for fan noise alone.
This too. Though, if they're ceiling mounted or in a hush box, it's not as bad. My SXRD TV has some fan noise, but it's not too bad. I don't hear it while watching movies/playing games.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:57 am

You're not going to get it, but you can get close. You'll have to steer away from LED screens, as they lose brightness off angle (go check them out at a store). Samsungs 6 and 7 series get my recommendation there, really. The current 'B' series is a 240Hz setup, which isn't that big of a deal, except that it works better/looks less like a soap opera than the 120Hz models did.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
|
Airmantharp
Maximum Gerbil
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:03 am

Vrock wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:Every projector I've ever used has a pretty loud fan, compared to a TV. I've skipped them for fan noise alone.
This too. Though, if they're ceiling mounted or in a hush box, it's not as bad. My SXRD TV has some fan noise, but it's not too bad. I don't hear it while watching movies/playing games.


Note that I'm not being a dick here, but you seem to find something wrong with every option presented... You may need to lower your standards a bit.
Having twins has dramatically reduced the time I have to nerd out.
Corrado
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Gilbertsville, PA

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:13 am

Corrado wrote:Note that I'm not being a dick here, but you seem to find something wrong with every option presented... You may need to lower your standards a bit.
That's because there is something wrong with every option presented. The difference is that some things are tolerable, and some aren't. I have a SXRD RPTV now and live with the negatives (overscan, lighter blacks, and SSE) because they are tolerable. I can live with poorer viewing angles and motion blur on a LCD, but poor screen uniformity is a deal-breaker. Likewise, I can live with the heat, threat of burn-in, and occasional false contouring in plasmas, but the blue/yellow flashes are a deal-breaker.

If I spend $2000-$3000 for a TV, I should get satisfaction for that money, don't you think?
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:19 am

Then you're only option, it seems, is to wait. Better technology is always coming, and I'm personally excited about upcoming Panasonic plasma's, with tremendous contrast and speed that LCD will never touch. Maybe they won't have the issues you've seen (I have no idea what you're talking about, with some pretty sharp eyes).
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
|
Airmantharp
Maximum Gerbil
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:23 am

Airmantharp wrote:You're not going to get it, but you can get close. You'll have to steer away from LED screens, as they lose brightness off angle (go check them out at a store). Samsungs 6 and 7 series get my recommendation there, really. The current 'B' series is a 240Hz setup, which isn't that big of a deal, except that it works better/looks less like a soap opera than the 120Hz models did.
Cnet liked the uniformity on the Sammy B750, hmm. Worthy of consideration. I am steering clear of Sonys though, as their backlight uniformity is pretty horrendous. Even in their expensive XBR line, they have problems.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:41 am

A B750 would be my choice, if I had to get a set today.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
|
Airmantharp
Maximum Gerbil
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:26 pm

Vrock wrote:
Corrado wrote:Get a plasma instead of an LCD then?
Can't. I see yellow/blue streaks in high contrast scenes with plasma. It's particularly noticeable when watching in the dark, and it gives me a headache.

This usually happens when you sit too close. Try a 50" at 8 feet and see if it happens.
bdwilcox
Graphmaster Gerbil
 
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:21 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:30 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Maybe they won't have the issues you've seen (I have no idea what you're talking about, with some pretty sharp eyes).
Be glad you don't see them. Many folks do. If you're curious, do a google search for "plainbows". AVSforum has a huge thread on it. Apparently it has something to do with uneven color refresh on plasmas. I don't get the science behind it, but I know it exists.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:36 pm

bdwilcox wrote:This usually happens when you sit too close. Try a 50" at 8 feet and see if it happens.
Happens at all distances for me. I had a Pioneer 5070HD a few years ago which I had to sell because of this phenomenon. My viewing distance was 10 feet. The only thing that reduces this effect for me turning the lights on, but I watch movies and play games with the lights out in a light controlled room, so no dice.

*edit: after some reading, it seems Panasonic has increased the speed of their 'phosphors' on the NeoPDP line...might be worth a look.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:55 pm

Well, you're a special case. For most folks uniformity isn't an issue because there are more important features for a TV, like black level, viewing angle, and response time. In addition, according to NEC, there are more factors than just the backlight that affect the uniformity, like electrode thickness and glass adherence.
Calm seas never made a skilled mariner.
drsauced
Graphmaster Gerbil
 
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:38 pm
Location: Here!

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:13 pm

drsauced wrote:Well, you're a special case. For most folks uniformity isn't an issue because there are more important features for a TV, like black level, viewing angle, and response time. In addition, according to NEC, there are more factors than just the backlight that affect the uniformity, like electrode thickness and glass adherence.


For all of the things that LCD's suck at, I love plasmas. And I don't think that they have the burn in issues anymore, though I know I could do more research on that- they're just the closest things to CRT's, actually largely better in most cases. I'll be hanging around for the coming generations, as they're supposed to get thinner, lighter, use less power and get darker, all at the same time.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
|
Airmantharp
Maximum Gerbil
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:21 pm

drsauced wrote:Well, you're a special case. For most folks uniformity isn't an issue because there are more important features for a TV, like black level, viewing angle, and response time. In addition, according to NEC, there are more factors than just the backlight that affect the uniformity, like electrode thickness and glass adherence.
I get that I'm not the norm. Doesn't make my complaint any less legitimate though. And an uneven backlight can interfer with those black levels that everyone likes.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:23 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
drsauced wrote:Well, you're a special case. For most folks uniformity isn't an issue because there are more important features for a TV, like black level, viewing angle, and response time. In addition, according to NEC, there are more factors than just the backlight that affect the uniformity, like electrode thickness and glass adherence.


For all of the things that LCD's suck at, I love plasmas. And I don't think that they have the burn in issues anymore, though I know I could do more research on that- they're just the closest things to CRT's, actually largely better in most cases. I'll be hanging around for the coming generations, as they're supposed to get thinner, lighter, use less power and get darker, all at the same time.
Plasma has long been the heir apparent to CRT, if they can only get that streaking under control I'd buy one for every room in my house.
Molon labe.
Vrock
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 20551
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Land of the Looney Lolcats

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:26 pm

Look up the Samsung LNXXA950's. Those are the only Local Dimming LED's that samsung made to my knowledge. I've read great things about this tv in reguards to IQ and the backlight. I'm not sure why they didn't keep at least one Local Dimming LED TV in their lineup. The rest of them are all the Edge light ones.
Bastage:
Ci7 3930K @ 4.56Ghz//16GB//MSI X79A-GD65//Noctua NH-D14 se2011//180GB Intel SSD 520
XFX 5850 1GB @775/1200 //X-Fi Titanium HD//Dell U2410(A01)+2001FP//OCZ ZX 850W
ucisilentbob
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:58 pm
Location: Garden Grove, California

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:33 pm

ucisilentbob wrote:Look up the Samsung LNXXA950's. Those are the only Local Dimming LED's that samsung made to my knowledge. I've read great things about this tv in reguards to IQ and the backlight. I'm not sure why they didn't keep at least one Local Dimming LED TV in their lineup. The rest of them are all the Edge light ones.


Biggest problem reported with these is that image quality/brightness/whatever suffers at angles more so than the normal CC ones. This goes for all of the screens that use the local backlighting, and it seems as if the light that reaches the back of the panel is too directional. Maybe they'll fix this in the coming generations, but for now, these screens have worse viewing angles than the 6 and 7 series. Also note that the A 9 series is pretty old, even if the backlighting technology is superior to the new 6000+ series, the electronics are older and far slower.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
|
Airmantharp
Maximum Gerbil
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:14 pm

I am also disappointed with the required trade-offs.
SpotTheCat
Gerbilus Supremus
 
Posts: 12260
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:47 am
Location: a regular hole

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:55 pm

Kinda off topic, but find a (now discontinued) Samsung LED DLP. The 67" was absolutely stunning. The LED light engine got rid of the the color wheel shimmer and the short bulb lifetime. On top of that, they were only about three times a thick as current LCD screens which only came into play if you were actually going to wall mount the screen. But, like I said, discontinued, and not an LCD. :)

--SS
SecretSquirrel
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Colony, TX (Dallas suburb)

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:06 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:Kinda off topic, but find a (now discontinued) Samsung LED DLP. The 67" was absolutely stunning. The LED light engine got rid of the the color wheel shimmer and the short bulb lifetime. On top of that, they were only about three times a thick as current LCD screens which only came into play if you were actually going to wall mount the screen. But, like I said, discontinued, and not an LCD. :)

--SS

Sony made great LCD projection TVs and JVC/Philips made LCOS DLPs (using Intel's liquid crystal on silicon process) that all lacked the "rainbow" effect. From what I've seen, the LED LCD TVs simply don't have enough of a quality difference to justify their price premium over regular LCDs. Plus, they add other problems to the LCD mix such as bluish whites, light bloom into shadows, poorer off-axis viewing and LED color shifts over time.
bdwilcox
Graphmaster Gerbil
 
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:21 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:28 pm

bdwilcox wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:Kinda off topic, but find a (now discontinued) Samsung LED DLP. The 67" was absolutely stunning. The LED light engine got rid of the the color wheel shimmer and the short bulb lifetime. On top of that, they were only about three times a thick as current LCD screens which only came into play if you were actually going to wall mount the screen. But, like I said, discontinued, and not an LCD. :)

--SS

Sony made great LCD projection TVs and JVC/Philips made LCOS DLPs (using Intel's liquid crystal on silicon process) that all lacked the "rainbow" effect. From what I've seen, the LED LCD TVs simply don't have enough of a quality difference to justify their price premium over regular LCDs. Plus, they add other problems to the LCD mix such as bluish whites, light bloom into shadows, poorer off-axis viewing and LED color shifts over time.


I almost bought one of the original Sony LCOS TVs. But, for the exact reason you mention, I went with a regular rear projection Mitsu. Mind you, this was when an actual DLP ran around $6K. BTW, LCOS is not DLP. It is a competing tech that produced similar images.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled topic: I have a hard time finding a >52" LCD TV at all. What is there seems to be horribly expensive or of marginal quality, perhaps both.

--SS
SecretSquirrel
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Colony, TX (Dallas suburb)

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:04 pm

And in the Colony you have Fry's and a multitude of Best Buys near to check sets out- at 52", I'd point out the LN52B750, but above? You have me there.
Canon 6D||[24-105/4L IS USM|100/2.8L Macro IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
For sale!|24/2.8 IS USM
|
Airmantharp
Maximum Gerbil
 
Posts: 4968
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Do LCD TVs with uniform backlights exist?

Postposted on Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:11 pm

Airmantharp wrote:And in the Colony you have Fry's and a multitude of Best Buys near to check sets out- at 52", I'd point out the LN52B750, but above? You have me there.



Yep. All sorts of stuff in the 40"-52" range. I've got a 61" DLP right now and that was a step down from a 65" rear projection Mitsu. I won't go any smaller. :) I'm actually quite interested to see what Vrock finally settles on.
SecretSquirrel
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1686
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Colony, TX (Dallas suburb)

Next

Return to Visual Haven

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron