Resolution/Aspect Ratio Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

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Resolution/Aspect Ratio Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:54 am

Hi all,

Well i am currently after a new monitor and have my eye on a couple but first i would like some advice on resolution etc. I am currently looking at purchasing one of these two monitors, bith aout the same price:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/174584

http://www.dabs.com/products/samsung-23 ... ml?q=P2350

So as you can see they are similar in spec only on is 24" and the other 23" but they have the same resolution. so first question:

1. As they are the same res on different size panels, would the picture quality be better on the 23" screen?
2. If they were side by side, would you notice the differnece in quality?
3. Will the screens have the same pixel size or will the pixels per Sq inch be different?

Any advice or explanation would be appreciated. BTW, if anyone has experienced these monitors i would like to hear your view.

On a similar note, as my previous monitor went pop, i have borrowed a collegues 24" samsung 2443nw which has a res of 1920 x 1200. Why is it that nowadays most, if not all new monitors, only seem to go upto as res of XXXX x 1080? Manufacturing reason? And would the 24" linked above at 1920 x 1080 be noticable different if i put it next to this 24" at 1920 x 1200.

Once again thanks.
Last edited by Dav27 on Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:20 pm

To answer your last question first.... Resolutions of computer monitors were established in the days of CRTs before LCDs existed. Most were 4:3 ratios of pixels on whatever size the CRT might be (640 x 480 VGA on a small monitor and 1600 x 1200 on a large one, for example). Early wide-screen versions for computer use adopted a 16:10 ratio and based them on the vertical resolutions that were standard at the time.

The television industry also adopted wide-screen; however, it opted for what it called the HD standard, a 16:9 ratio. That meant that the actual surface area of the screen was slightly smaller given the same diagonal dimension. And smaller surface area means less cost for the LCD screen.

The HD 16:9 ratio standard was chosen not because it was an actual standard for movies -- it wasn't -- but because it was a fairly happy medium between standard definition 4:3 ratio television and the various wide aspect ratios used for many movies, minimizing the black bar masks needed to mask the unused area of the screen. Moreover, the vertical pixel dimensions -- or lines -- were chosen to integrate easily into the broadcast media.

In the last several years, in order to cut costs, many of the computer screen manufacturers have begun taking advantage of the economy of scale of LCD production for the television industry and adopting the 16:9 ratio panels for computer use. A few computer users few don't like losing that extra 10% of vertical space; however, it isn't an issue for most, especially as larger screens have gotten less expensive.

To make a long story short, that's how 1920 x 1200 became the "computer standard of the 1600 x 1200 "computer standard" and then devolved into the 1920 x 1080 HD standard.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:32 pm

Dav27 wrote:1. As they are the same res on different size panels, would the picture quality be better on the 23" screen?

Yes and no -- it depends on the quality of the LCD panel, itself, and on your viewing distance. On a larger screen with the same resolution, it is easier to see the individual pixels if you are viewing from the same distance. However, with a difference of only 1 inch in diagonal size -- from a 23-inch LCD panel to a 24-inch LCD panel -- there won't be much difference.

2. If they were side by side, would you notice the differnece in quality?

Maybe, maybe not -- depends on the individual panel type used in the monitors and on your distance from them. Side by side, most probably the only difference you would notice would be their size.

3. Will the screens have the same pixel size or will the pixels per Sq inch be different?

The pixels on the larger panel will be slightly larger, that is, there will be very slightly fewer per square inch of surface area.

One of the very best places on the internet to research computer monitors is the LCD thread over on AnandTech.com. Read the 1st three posts thoroughly and then skip to the last dozen pages of posts (and ask your own questions there).
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:07 pm

Picture quality should be independent of panel size. It should be equivalent for otherwise identical panels at the same angle of your field of view - a larger screen lets you sit further back. In this case it is a wash.

If they were side by side, you might notice the larger looking better further away, and the smaller looking better if you are too close. Again, for 23" vs 24", it is a wash. If you moved the smaller one closer to you until both looked the same size, they should look identical.

Pixels per sq in will be different. Dot pitch is the pixel size, but it is not listed for either model.

Basically it will come down to the size of your desk. I don't know if either screen is a generation newer, or what difference there my be in ports or electronics. Both are inevitably TN panels, given the cost, so you will get slight shifts in colour as you look from one side of the screen to the other, or from top to bottom. But a better type of panel will be much smaller, or twice the price.

Next to a 24" 1920x1200 monitor, it will be slightly smaller but wider, if the diagonal measurements are correct. The 2443BW is also a TN panel, but lacks a DVI input, so the new monitor may be slightly sharper if you can feed it a digital input.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:33 pm

Once you've used a good IPS LCD, you won't ever go back to inferior TN LCD panel technology.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:11 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:Once you've used a good IPS LCD, you won't ever go back to inferior TN LCD panel technology.


What are these? Any examples, Samsung etc? Why are they better?

Thanks.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:34 pm

There are three different technologies used to make LCD panels: TN, VA and IPS. Of the three, TN is the least expensive to manufacture and IPS is the most expensive. TN is very fast (good for gaming) but has less accurate color (most often 6-bit instead of 8-bit, so many colors need to be "constructed" by a process called dithering) and a poorer viewing angle (colors and contrast degrade as one looks at the monitor at an angle rather than head-on). IPS panels are considered to be the most accurate in terms of color and hold their characteristics when viewed off-center much better. P-VA and M-VA panels hold the middle ground. Note that TN panels manufactured today are generally much better than those manufactured only a few years ago; however, the generalities still hold true.

For a really good explanation, read the 1st post on the LCD thread link I gave you earlier. That post covers pretty much all the factors involved with LCD monitor selection very thoroughly.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:49 pm

Thanks for your responses so far. Interesting and informative. Cheers.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:26 pm

So far no joy in finding an IPS Monitor to look at but i am pressuming they'd probably be out of my price range.

Can anyone tell me any viws on this monitor:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/174180
http://lgled.lge.com/uk/?cmpid=key_uk_W2486L

and how does it compare to the samsung P2450
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/174584

Thanks.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:33 pm

This is the basic reason why some ~21" monitors are $179 and others are $570. For gaming and general use, TN is the type of panel that you see on nearly every computer around. An IPS panel is much more rare because of cost, but if you are doing photo work or something that requires VERY accurate colors, then the difference is worth the money.

Just be aware that IPS panels are much slower (latency) in displaying a rapidly moving picture. It isn't so much of a blur as the display can be several frames behind what is actually happening. Besides being cheaper, that is why the gamers use TN panels.... less lag, and that is really the point of a really fast game machine.


PS - Anandtech.com has a recent review of monitors in the 24" range. http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3302 It is a year old, but there is a LOT of good info there and all of the models are still currently in production.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:00 pm

The Dell UltraSharp U2410 is a good example. The UltraSharp 2209WA is one of the most affordable monitors with an IPS LCD panel. Yes, you're looking at double the price of TN LCD monitors of the same size.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:11 pm

IPS panels aren't that much slower... the newest have almost caught up to TN. VA panels are the really slow ones.
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Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:15 pm

Further adding to information about monitors i have since learnt a lot in the past 24hrs thanks to you guys on here.

Taking this thread a little further: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=69730

Aspect ratios: I was confused about the resolution of screens and was asking about the difference in resolution and therefore quality with regards to 24" monitors and ask the difference between 1920 x 1200 & 1920 x 1080. Well i may have missed the point somewhere along as i naturally assumed the screen sizes were the same only one panel has more lines of transistors squeezed into it.

Correct me if i am wrong but this is not the case at all, the screens although both 24" will be different in shape due to the 1920 x 1200 being at 16:10 ratio and the 1920 x 1080 being at 16:9 ratio, is that correct?? If so my concernes about quality (looking at the numbers) is irrelevant as the numbers purely describe the aspect ratio of the panel.

Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks all.
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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:28 pm

Ok, I will admit I am not 100% sure as to what your asking in your question,

1920 x 1200 at 16:10 ratio is a standard wide screen resolution.
1920 x 1080 at 16:9. I believe this was introduced because 16:9 is the full height anamorphic windscreen format, a screen with this resolution is favored by some for watching films because it eliminates the extra black borders when viewing the film full screen on your monitor.

I would personally choose a 1920 x 1200 resolution screen as you gain extra screen real estate and I am not bothered by the extra black border when watching a dvd on my pc.

Different resolutions are obviously going to produce different aspect ratios. The difference between 1080 and 1200 pixels is that you will lose screen height with the 1080 pixels. The image is not stretched out of proportion, the physical screen area changes.

Hope this helps and that i haven't repeated over what you already know.

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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:10 pm

Cheers Dan. so then the difference in screen size form a 1080 when compared to a 1200 (given the same diagonal screen size and assumming a pizel to be 0.25mm for ease of calculation) would be 30mm less in height. I was looking at an LG monitor and a couple of samsungs but they are all 16:9 (1920 x 1080). Anyone know of any good 16:10 aspect ration monitors? Either 23" or 24"?
Cheers.
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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:34 pm

Ignoring screen size for the moment, when comparing a monitor that is 1920 x 1080 (16:9 ratio) to a monitor that is 1920 x 1200 (16:10 ratio), the monitor that is "1080" will have 10% less vertical lines of pixels (120 of them) than the monitor that is "1200". Additionally, assuming the two monitors to have exactly the same diagonal dimension and that the pixels are exactly square (not always quite true), the "1080" monitor would be very slightly wider and somewhat less tall than the "1200" monitor.

Specifically, assuming both monitors to have exactly 22-inch screens, measured diagonally, and, again, assuming the pixels to be exactly square, you would have:
  • A 1920 x 1080 monitor whose screen would be 19.175 inches wide by 10.786 inches tall, 206.813 square inches and 10,026.45 pixels per square inch; or,
  • a 1920 x 1200 monitor whose screen would be 18.656 inches wide by 11.660 inches tall, 217.528 square inches and 10,591.74 pixels per square inch.
Essentially, the "1080" monitor would appear very slight larger (because of its extra ~ 1/2-inch width), less tall (because of its lacking ~ 7/8-inch height), and would have slightly less resolution (because of its pixel density per square inch).

Practically, there is very little difference between the two. The biggest loss using the "1080" monitor would be of a few extra lines of text at the bottom of the screen (those 120 vertical pixels' worth) while surfing the internet, doing word processing, or working with spreadsheets. For gaming and watching multimedia material, the differences are negligible. And, typically, "1080" (16:9) monitors are slightly less expensive than "1200" (16:10) monitors.

Edited to add: With a 24-inch diagonal, the "1080" screen would be about 0.6-inch wider and about 1-inch shallower than its "1200" counterpart. Again, the resolution differences between the two are negligible -- the only significant difference is that extra 120 lines of pixels with the "1200" screen monitor. And the price differential.
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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:14 pm

Dav27 wrote:Cheers Dan. so then the difference in screen size form a 1080 when compared to a 1200 (given the same diagonal screen size and assumming a pizel to be 0.25mm for ease of calculation) would be 30mm less in height.
Those numbers aren't possible. You cannot fix pixel size, horizontal resolution, and diagonal screen size while varying screen height.

Pixels are just "square dots" on normal displays. Pathagoras tells us that the 1920x1200 monitor with .25 mm pixels would have about a [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=sqrt%28%28.25mm*1920%29^2%2B%28.25mm*1200%29^2%29+in+in]22.3 in[/url] diagonal and the 1920x1080 monitor with .25mm pixels would have a [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=sqrt%28%28.25mm*1920%29^2%2B%28.25mm*1080%29^2%29+in+in]21.7 in[/url] diagonal. Both would likely be rounded to 22 for marketing, but they're not the same size.

Just a slightly different tack than edh, but same message.
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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:45 pm

Thanks for the responses guys, much appreciated and informative.

mattsteg, the figure of 0.25mm was just to roughly calcualte lost hieght on a 1080 (typically a pixel is 0.27mm)...and i know the triangle would be a slightly different shape etc......

Thanks again.
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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:04 pm

danhibbert wrote:windscreen format

Watching movies in your car, are we?
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Re: Aspect Ratio:Clarification

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:09 pm

Assuming pixels are square, and the diagonal is 24'', and that 1inch = 25.4mm, i arrived at the following numbers

1920x1080 monitor has width=531.3mm, height=298.8mm and pixelsize = 0.276mm.
1920x1200 monitor has width=516.9mm, height=323.1mm and pixelsize= 0.269mm.
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Re: Resolution Explanation/Monitor Advice Please.

Postposted on Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:14 pm

Your two threads were incredibly similar so I merged them together.

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