Monitors!!

What you see is what you get, including photography, displays, and video equipment.

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Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 8:55 am

OK since I am shopping for a good monitor, why doesnt TR have reviews about them! ya ya ya the Dell Ultrasharp ones are the best without a doubt. But dang it I cant afford 500 bucks on one. And in reality if I could I would probably splurge and buy an Apple Display.

Anyways, Just a good 24"-27", LED, 2ms response, high contrast ratio......I'm not asking a lot here :P
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 9:04 am

2ms is undoubtedly going to rain down the wrath of the IPS snobs on your head - you can only get that kind of response in TN panels. I have a Samsung 23" 1920x1080 TN panel that I'm quite happy with, it runs around $200 online. Probably smaller and lower res than you want, and definitely not high color gamut.

Honestly, "photophiles" (for lack of a better term) are the new audiophile.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 9:17 am

Pish on them. I just want something that looks good without the price of a IPS monitor. I am not editing video or photo's here, just surfing the web, playing games, watching youtube and VLC videos.

I have seen that monitor at my local BestBuy DerFunk, and it does look good! However, I forgot to state I am also looking for vesa mounting capabilities. I have one of those Ergotron monitor arms on my home desk.

But really TR should reveiw some of the "other" non-IPS monitors for their systems guide. Not a lot maybe some of the well reviewed ones off Newegg....I would rather trust a TR review than some schmo's on Newegg. That says a lot :wink:

So if anyone has bought a monitor recently (NON-IPS I have to add) Let me know your review.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 9:29 am

Nonetheless! You might find a good deal on a 23" Ultrasharp U2311H, which has an eIPS panel, and is compatible with 100mm VESA mounts:

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/product ... u=320-9270

edit: These guys seem to do a good thorough job of reviewing monitors: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 9:37 am

Here, let me Newegg that for you :-p

From $200 shipped for 23.6" 1080P to $310 shipped for 27" 1080P of makes Acer, Asus, Samsung, Sceptre, Viewsonic. I'd go with an Acer or Asus personally, and that 27" Acer looks nice.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:01 am

derFunkenstein wrote:Honestly, "photophiles" (for lack of a better term) are the new audiophile.


No, not really. The problem with audiophiles is that the differences that they seem to percieve in audio quality are not noticable to most people, and often, they perceive differences that science says cannot really exist.

On the other hand, you'd pretty much have to be blind not to tell the difference between a TN panel and an IPS panel. You may not think the difference is worth spending money on, but there is no real debate that it exists.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:06 am

Airmantharp, I can do that too. I am looking for a review of sorts one that I can trust.

bthylafh, hmm that 23" may be doable.......But for the same price I can get a 27" non-ips....trade offs make my head hurt.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:13 am

I do think you're wrong- I have a ZR30w, and while it is worlds better than the cheap-ass Hanns-G 28" next to it, my ancient Samsung 204B actually looks pretty decent.

A good TN will show up an IPS screen easily outside of calibrated environments (which limit luminosity) while being mindful of viewing angles. They're also incredibly sharp when it comes to text rendering, which is why I use the giant pixels on my 28" for web viewing and other monitoring while 'working' on the 30".

Colors are where you really tell the difference, but for desktop usage, outside of being able to say 'ooh! wow!', there is no functional difference. I use my ZR30w for gaming, specifically making use of the natural view distance that the resolution affords along with the insane color gamut/contrast performance. I see what other people don't see or before they see, and I exploit that advantage to their detriment :).
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:17 am

bwoodring wrote:No, not really. The problem with audiophiles is that the differences that they seem to percieve in audio quality are not noticable to most people, and often, they perceive differences that science says cannot really exist.

On the other hand, you'd pretty much have to be blind not to tell the difference between a TN panel and an IPS panel. You may not think the difference is worth spending money on, but there is no real debate that it exists.

To me it's the same argument either way. There is a difference in quality between high end and your off-the-shelf Wal-Mart stuff in both areas, and in neither case does it make sense to pay for it unless you absolutely need it. I'd argue that editing home video clips of my kid doesn't warrant an IPS or PVA panel and my home recording hobby doesn't require a pair of bi-amped studio monitors, either. It's more important to know your equipment and how media produced on that equipment translates to another system - audio or video - than it is to have the top of the line.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:23 am

tanker27 wrote:Airmantharp, I can do that too. I am looking for a review of sorts one that I can trust.

bthylafh, hmm that 23" may be doable.......But for the same price I can get a 27" non-ips....trade offs make my head hurt.


Well, my experience (with other people's Acer and Asus monitors) is that Acer and Asus make good stuff. If the Newegg reviews are positive, I'd go with it, so that's what I recommend :). But I'm with you, I'd like to hear from another competent forum member what they think about it firsthand if possible.

23" IPS vs. 27" TN and you're not doing color-accurate work- 27" TN all the way. I made the choice once, and even without the 30" IPS on my desk, I'd make it again.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:51 am

Airmantharp wrote:I made the choice once, and even without the 30" IPS on my desk, I'd make it again.

Me too. And yes, I would again.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 10:53 am

I assume all these people who like/suggest IPS monitors don't ever game? IPS is junk as far as I'm concerned. No IPS monitors can meet my demands.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:07 am

Since we are on the topic, I am looking to buy a monitor that my wife can use for first pass color correction with NTSC calibrated colors. When she made her thesis film she used a color CRT television, but now she is thinking of something more professional. Unfortunately the budget is less professional as of now.

I am wondering if there are any thin layer monitors that have that capability in the <23" range?
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:13 am

xtalentx wrote:I assume all these people who like/suggest IPS monitors don't ever game? IPS is junk as far as I'm concerned. No IPS monitors can meet my demands.


Wrong and wrong.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:26 am

bthylafh wrote:
xtalentx wrote:I assume all these people who like/suggest IPS monitors don't ever game? IPS is junk as far as I'm concerned. No IPS monitors can meet my demands.


Wrong and wrong.



Unless things have changed A LOT in the last 6 months (that's when I was last monitor shopping) no IPS monitors were suited to gaming at all.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:27 am

Nonetheless, my 2209WA is perfectly fine for gaming - 6ms response time. Perhaps you're just imagining things.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:29 am

bthylafh wrote:Nonetheless! You might find a good deal on a 23" Ultrasharp U2311H, which has an eIPS panel, and is compatible with 100mm VESA mounts:

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/product ... u=320-9270

edit: These guys seem to do a good thorough job of reviewing monitors: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk


This monitor is astounding in games and movies, with excellent build quality and out-of-the-box calibration. It's about the only cheap monitor worth considering at 23'' (and I have gone through *a lot* of monitors the past few months at work and at home).

It's easy to dismiss IPS panels if you haven't actually used one, but put a TN panel next to an IPS, add a game or a movie and you'll pick the IPS one 10 times out of 10, *guaranteed*. The "audiophile" comparison is silly at best, willfully ignorant at worst.

And for the love of god, don't pick a TN monitor for more than $200, it's simply not worth the money.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:33 am

bthylafh wrote:Nonetheless, my 2209WA is perfectly fine for gaming - 6ms response time. Perhaps you're just imagining things.


So is my 8ms U2311h. I've played every type of game on this and it hasn't let me down - and this is coming from someone who kept his CRT for gaming until this December (these "gaming" TN panels are pitiful compared to my <0.7ms Trinitron panel). The U2311h is the first LCD monitor I could use that wasn't a visible downgrade to my CRT.

So yeah, CounterStrike, Half-Life 2, UT2004, Starcraft 2, Portal, Call of Duty, movies, you name it - this monitor delivers.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 11:39 am

bthylafh wrote:Nonetheless, my 2209WA is perfectly fine for gaming - 6ms response time. Perhaps you're just imagining things.


response time is essentially meaningless, I'm more concerned with input lag. However your monitor seems to have respectably low input lag. I guess I should have clarified my post a little. I was looking at larger screens.

I have gamed on IPS monitors many times and after about an hour or so I can usually compensate for the input lag but why when a cheap tn panel will usually get me right where I need to be out of the gate.

I won't deny IPS panels look a million times better though.. I wish I could get the best of both worlds.

My gaming purity is at the point where I almost bought a 40" crt.. It's a problem :)
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 12:17 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Well, my experience (with other people's Acer and Asus monitors) is that Acer and Asus make good stuff. If the Newegg reviews are positive, I'd go with it, so that's what I recommend :). But I'm with you, I'd like to hear from another competent forum member what they think about it firsthand if possible.

23" IPS vs. 27" TN and you're not doing color-accurate work- 27" TN all the way. I made the choice once, and even without the 30" IPS on my desk, I'd make it again.



Thank you for your opinion. Its a tough decision without ever seeing both of them side by side in the same environment. I am leaning toward the this or this. One is LED lit and the other not. I am replacing and Older 24" Gateway flatpanel (I dont have the model on hand nor can I find it)

So whats the verdict.....LED or not?
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 12:31 pm

The LED screens I have seen seem to be so over-saturated it's distracting. I'd go with the larger size over LED.

Larger screen has DP as well, if you choose to use that in the future. I like using DP on my U2410 so I can run other things through DVI/HDMI and just switch between the inputs.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 12:47 pm

tanker27 wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:Well, my experience (with other people's Acer and Asus monitors) is that Acer and Asus make good stuff. If the Newegg reviews are positive, I'd go with it, so that's what I recommend :). But I'm with you, I'd like to hear from another competent forum member what they think about it firsthand if possible.

23" IPS vs. 27" TN and you're not doing color-accurate work- 27" TN all the way. I made the choice once, and even without the 30" IPS on my desk, I'd make it again.



Thank you for your opinion. Its a tough decision without ever seeing both of them side by side in the same environment. I am leaning toward the this or this. One is LED lit and the other not. I am replacing and Older 24" Gateway flatpanel (I dont have the model on hand nor can I find it)

So whats the verdict.....LED or not?


For an inexpensive monitor? Doesn't matter. Note that the IPS screens are not LED backlit across the board; CCFLs provide more luminosity than LCD panel could ever handle anyway, with a greater range of color than current digital processing systems allow for. Essentially, CCFLs are better than you'll ever need. LEDs are almost a fad, but they're smaller and more efficient when it comes to inexpensive implementations.

Expensive implementations of LED backlights use RGB LEDs, with discrete colors being generated by separate substrates, and this is what your highest-end TVs use. But again, they're not necessary.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 3:20 pm

I just bought several 24" HP LA2405wg's from newegg for $280. They're 1920x1200 (16:10). Great deal in my opinion.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 4:19 pm

BlackStar wrote:
bthylafh wrote:Nonetheless, my 2209WA is perfectly fine for gaming - 6ms response time. Perhaps you're just imagining things.


So is my 8ms U2311h. I've played every type of game on this and it hasn't let me down - and this is coming from someone who kept his CRT for gaming until this December (these "gaming" TN panels are pitiful compared to my <0.7ms Trinitron panel). The U2311h is the first LCD monitor I could use that wasn't a visible downgrade to my CRT.

So yeah, CounterStrike, Half-Life 2, UT2004, Starcraft 2, Portal, Call of Duty, movies, you name it - this monitor delivers.

So how do you like the downgrade to 60Hz?
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 4:44 pm

Firestarter wrote:
BlackStar wrote:
bthylafh wrote:Nonetheless, my 2209WA is perfectly fine for gaming - 6ms response time. Perhaps you're just imagining things.


So is my 8ms U2311h. I've played every type of game on this and it hasn't let me down - and this is coming from someone who kept his CRT for gaming until this December (these "gaming" TN panels are pitiful compared to my <0.7ms Trinitron panel). The U2311h is the first LCD monitor I could use that wasn't a visible downgrade to my CRT.

So yeah, CounterStrike, Half-Life 2, UT2004, Starcraft 2, Portal, Call of Duty, movies, you name it - this monitor delivers.

So how do you like the downgrade to 60Hz?


60Hz LCD is more comfortable than 85Hz CRT, so this is a significant upgrade. Stare at a CRT for 8 hours a day and your eyes will scream bloody murder - literally (as in strained, blood-shot eyes).
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 4:56 pm

for anyone thats curious this is the monitor that died on me that I am upgrading from.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 5:00 pm

BlackStar wrote:60Hz LCD is more comfortable than 85Hz CRT, so this is a significant upgrade. Stare at a CRT for 8 hours a day and your eyes will scream bloody murder - literally (as in strained, blood-shot eyes).

I don't understand though why you held out on LCDs for so long only to buy a regular 60Hz LCD. The only reason I would've kept a CRT around for that long would be for the superior refresh rates, for everything else (including comfort as you mentioneD) the LCDs have long since become the better option.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 5:14 pm

tanker27 wrote:for anyone thats curious this is the monitor that died on me that I am upgrading from.



You do realize that's an spva panel right? I have the hpf 2105 which used the same panel. I couldn't move to a tn panel from that lcd. I had to either move to another pva panel or go to an ips panel. That being said, I know lots of people who would be just fine with a tn panel, I'm just not one of them. My current monitor is a hp zr24w.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 5:24 pm

Yes I do. But it was laggy as hell, color wasn't consistent and besides its dead. If I find time I may give it a whirl to try and fix it but really its 6 years old. The TN stuff I have seen at Best Buy look better in their non-configured-correctly state than that one. /shrug

Besides it didnt do 1080p/i about the only thing I liked was the 16:10 ratio.
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Re: Monitors!!

Postposted on Wed May 11, 2011 5:31 pm

Firestarter wrote:
BlackStar wrote:60Hz LCD is more comfortable than 85Hz CRT, so this is a significant upgrade. Stare at a CRT for 8 hours a day and your eyes will scream bloody murder - literally (as in strained, blood-shot eyes).

I don't understand though why you held out on LCDs for so long only to buy a regular 60Hz LCD. The only reason I would've kept a CRT around for that long would be for the superior refresh rates, for everything else (including comfort as you mentioneD) the LCDs have long since become the better option.


LCDs of comparable quality to good CRTs used to be extremely expensive before now and my monitor worked well enough that I didn't wish to downgrade to something with inferior picture quality. There's simply no comparison: TN panels use 6bit color with banding/dithering, their viewing angle suck and their response times are significantly worse, even at 120Hz.

I consider 120Hz TN panels a waste of money. I'd rather spend the money on something that can display proper colors rather than something that only affects a tiny amount of applications (competitive twitch games).
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