TR Forums

I'll let everyone argue their hearts out on superzooms, but the 18-200 will be the lens that lives on the camera when I'm not doing sports work.

I look at this as a 7-10 year purchase. In that vein, I have been leaning towards the 7100. More flexibility and control. Unfortunately the sensor in the 5200 seems to be a bit less noisy than the one in the 7100.

Like many folks I don't necessarily like change for the sake of change. Losing the ability to glance at the top display on know what the camera is set at bugs me. I also like my buttons. Button+dial=fast settings change. That said, it does look like they did a decent job of having the command dial change the most common setting for each mode. It also looks like I'd rely more on "Programmed Auto" mode than full manual since it would be a pain to change aperture and shutter speed independently.

Still haven't made it to the store to hold the stupid things though. Life keeps getting in the way of me spending money.

--SS

I dunno, I don't much like any zooms. I used to have a small collection of lenses for my Nikon FM2 and the Nikon primes were great.

I am amassing lenses for my Fuli X-E1 and I started with the 60mm Macro. I could have bought the 18-55mm kit zoom which is supposed to be very good but no. Next I imagine will be the 14mm although the 18mm is pretty cheap compared to it. I must admit the 10-24 is attractive although OIS will not be too important as the tripod handles that part. The 23mm 1.4 is definitely on the list but it will be a while longer till it comes out. I do tend to move around a lot more than a zoom user though, but I don't mind.

Oh yeah ... I have to save up too, none of this is cheap. The XF lenses are amazing, so they say, and I can vouch for the 60mm.

SecretSquirrel wrote:

That said, it does look like they did a decent job of having the command dial change the most common setting for each mode. It also looks like I'd rely more on "Programmed Auto" mode than full manual since it would be a pain to change aperture and shutter speed independently.

Why not rely on Shutter Priority and Aperture Priority modes if you wont be shooting manual. That way for motion you just set shutter to 500 or what ever and the camera figures the aperture. Vice versa in AP.

So I went in and played with the 7100 and 5200 today. My opinion? 7100, hands down. Don't get me wrong, the 5200 is very nice. It just felt like there was nothing there. It felt plastic and insubstantial. Then we get to the controls. For someone new to SLRs, I suppose they would be fine. Coming from the D70s, or D90, or D300, etc, everything just seems kind of wrong and..... different.

The 7100 felt familiar and solid. Yes, it is heavier but it just felt better. Now, the kit lens on the 7100 is obviously a bigger, heavier lense than the one on the 5200 too. I can't imagine putting one of the big 2.8 lenses on the 5200. It would dwarf the body. I definitely like the viewfinder on the 7100 better too.

Now, is the 7100 worth something like $500 more? That is going to be a personal decision. It is a hard pill to swallow, but after playing with the 5200, I can say I wouldn't be happy with it. I'd rather get the old 7000 than the 5200 if I need to save the $$$.

--SS

That's going to be a tough choice. However, here is one thought that may have bearing on what you are looking at: a good body can make your existing lenses better.

Good luck with your choice! I don't think you will come out poorly.The D7100 looks to be comparable to the Sony a77. However, the other side of it is that you may be able to save some money on used D7000 and then be able to get a 70-200/2.8. Tough choices. Keep us posted.

Go and seriously look at the Fuji X-E1 or X-Pro. The 16+ megapixel sensor with NO bayer filter is a sweet thing. I come from my FM2 and Fuji 50 of various kinds all hand developed, for many years and a 4x5 camera recently, 325M/B images scanned, and the X-E1 I bought is blowing my mind.

I am about to drop nearly a grand on a 14mm lens just because it is so damn fine.

Quite a few pros are selling their DSLR stuff and moving to this fine platform ... well 'cause it is better.

I'd never ever advise anyone to leave their camera system. Once you have lenses and a flash or two, the investment is just too much. Upgrading within a system that meets your needs is completely logical. Leaving it without being able to try it in you most used scenarios (i.e., not in a store) is silly.

PenGun wrote:

Go and seriously look at the Fuji X-E1 or X-Pro. The 16+ megapixel sensor with NO bayer filter is a sweet thing. I come from my FM2 and Fuji 50 of various kinds all hand developed, for many years and a 4x5 camera recently, 325M/B images scanned, and the X-E1 I bought is blowing my mind.

I am about to drop nearly a grand on a 14mm lens just because it is so damn fine.

Quite a few pros are selling their DSLR stuff and moving to this fine platform ... well 'cause it is better.

Two bigger things: tele lenses, and Ken Rockwell's absolute love for this system except that he finds the colors less suitable for landscapes. Also, slower focusing and lack of good focus tracking and per-shot focusing in burst mode.

And that's not disregarding the sensor- it shows tremendous promise, but Fuji doesn't seem to have a strong system behind it to bring it above the realm of really, really nice point-and-shoot.

Airmantharp wrote:

PenGun wrote:

Go and seriously look at the Fuji X-E1 or X-Pro. The 16+ megapixel sensor with NO bayer filter is a sweet thing. I come from my FM2 and Fuji 50 of various kinds all hand developed, for many years and a 4x5 camera recently, 325M/B images scanned, and the X-E1 I bought is blowing my mind.

I am about to drop nearly a grand on a 14mm lens just because it is so damn fine.

Quite a few pros are selling their DSLR stuff and moving to this fine platform ... well 'cause it is better.

Two bigger things: tele lenses, and Ken Rockwell's absolute love for this system except that he finds the colors less suitable for landscapes. Also, slower focusing and lack of good focus tracking and per-shot focusing in burst mode.

And that's not disregarding the sensor- it shows tremendous promise, but Fuji doesn't seem to have a strong system behind it to bring it above the realm of really, really nice point-and-shoot.

It's true Ken loves the Fuji X cameras. That does not mean they are bad, it's just our Ken, enthusing ... it's what he does.

We will get a 55-200 pretty soon, my 60mm Macro is very fine.

Now I have no need for a nice point and shoot camera. I don't do that kinda thing myself. The tool I bought to replace my 4x5 is just a very fine one and I have lots of 350 MB files to compare my Fuji to and it kills.

As I said there are pros dumping all their Canon and Nikon stuff to buy into the Fuji X system.

PenGun wrote:

As I said there are pros dumping all their Canon and Nikon stuff to buy into the Fuji X system.

[citation needed]

In any hobby or technical enterprise there will always be some equipment/format churn around the margins, and small form-factor kits like u4/3 and the Fuji line will win some fans simply because the equipment maintains the interchangable lens advantages while being smaller and lighter and therefore easier to pack around. That's not necessarily indicative of a sea change, though.

It makes a great second camera for pro, just like the Sony Nex, Panasonic Lumix, Nikon 1 v2, Canon EOS M, and then Olympus OMD.

I think its more fair to say that there are pros are picking up mirrorless bodies. Very few are shooting with them exclusively, though.

Airmantharp wrote:

And that's not disregarding the sensor- it shows tremendous promise, but Fuji doesn't seem to have a strong system behind it to bring it above the realm of really, really nice point-and-shoot.

Fuji has more high quality lenses in a year than m43 had at the same point in its lifecycle. It also seems as if Fuji "gets" the mirrorless system more than Panasonic or Olympus ever did. Instead of churning out an endless barrage of bulky slow zooms, they came out of the gate with a focused selection of high quality compact fast primes, which really appeal to the mindset of the mirrorless shooter (cf leica M users). Additionally, the kit zoom, the 18-55/2.8-4 is a stop faster than competing products from the rest of the crowd, and will probably be all the lens that most people will ever want or need, especially given its very high optical quality (the 55-200/ by contrast is only 0-0.5 stops faster than the competition).

If anyone asks me which system to buy into right now, I'd very likely recommend the X-E1, unless they have specific needs (DSLR with fast PDAF for sports work, GH3 or BMPC for videographers).

No, they are changing systems for the only reason a pro would. Anyway it's all good, keep on shooting.

Voldenuit wrote:

If anyone asks me which system to buy into right now, I'd very likely recommend the X-E1, unless they have specific needs (DSLR with fast PDAF for sports work, GH3 or BMPC for videographers).

The more I read, the more I agree- cost not being a consideration, having every lens be that nice is wonderful, especially with such a finely built compact body. The DSLR people tend to make their smallest bodies the cheapest and cheapest feeling, one of the main reasons I skipped the Rebels for my 60D, and there's no denying the quality per pound and volume you're getting with Fuji.

But talking about costs- man, I could get a basic body and three nice primes for the price of that kit- and then two nice zooms for the price of an additional lens! Actually, I did- for the price of an XE-1 kit and another lens, I have a 60D, 15-85, 70-300 USM, 50/1.4, and 85/1.8. Only the 24/2.8 IS cost me more, but without IS it'd be in the same range.

Granted I wouldn't want to compare shot-to-shot quality; only one of those lenses is actually designed for the aging APS-C sensor in my 60D, the other four would perform much better on a modern ~$1700 6D.

Airmantharp wrote:

But talking about costs- man, I could get a basic body and three nice primes for the price of that kit- and then two nice zooms for the price of an additional lens! Actually, I did- for the price of an XE-1 kit and another lens, I have a 60D, 15-85, 70-300 USM, 50/1.4, and 85/1.8. Only the 24/2.8 IS cost me more, but without IS it'd be in the same range.

Yeah, you'd have to be very careful about how you build your lens selection. The X-E1 + kit zoom seems to be the best value at ~$1000 (since the kit zoom sells for $699) by itself, then carefully select one or two prime lenses. One might even be better off getting an adapter and using an adapted manual lens for a while. But being careful with lens choice and building one's collection slowly over the years is something rangefinder users have been used to doing for decades. DSLRs still have the versatility and low cost of entry (something m43 does well at too). But if you know what you want, the Fuji X system is pretty attractive.

The Fuji X system also takes a variety of Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses with the M mount adapter.

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digita ... ity_chart/

The camera has a mode for non Fuji lenses and uses them well apparently. I am going to buy the Fuji 14mm in a few days but this is an interesting longer lens, a Leica Leitz Wetzlar Tele-Elmar 135mm on ebay. A very nice 200mm 35mm eqivalent:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Leica-Leitz-Wetz ... 1059080015

Just to give a follow up... I have a nice new Nikon D7100 body sitting on my desk beside me. Picked it up today at lunch. One of the few pluses of buying new release camera gear is that it is the same price online as it is locally.

--SS

SecretSquirrel wrote:

Just to give a follow up... I have a nice new Nikon D7100 body sitting on my desk beside me. Picked it up today at lunch. One of the few pluses of buying new release camera gear is that it is the same price online as it is locally.

--SS

Congrats! That's an awesome body; Nikon has it in the APS-C sector if you're not shooting action (thus 7D).

With regards to price- I've been finding Best Buy disturbingly competitive with Amazon and B&H; so much so that I'd rather get stuff through them. I've also gotten Fry's to match those prices without complaint, and Fry's definitely has more local selection than any other big box in my area.

Airmantharp wrote:

SecretSquirrel wrote:

Just to give a follow up... I have a nice new Nikon D7100 body sitting on my desk beside me. Picked it up today at lunch. One of the few pluses of buying new release camera gear is that it is the same price online as it is locally.

--SS

Congrats! That's an awesome body; Nikon has it in the APS-C sector if you're not shooting action (thus 7D).

With regards to price- I've been finding Best Buy disturbingly competitive with Amazon and B&H; so much so that I'd rather get stuff through them. I've also gotten Fry's to match those prices without complaint, and Fry's definitely has more local selection than any other big box in my area.

Both the camera shops in the area (if you can call Wolf Camera a camera shop) match B&H prices in the store. Given that I pay sales tax if I order from Amazon, I might as well by local if I can. I'd have a hard time buying a camera body at Frys. To many shenanigans go on with returns there. That said, I buy a lot of stuff from them.

It just sits on my desk staring at me, begging me to open it up... no lens though.

SecretSquirrel wrote:

Both the camera shops in the area (if you can call Wolf Camera a camera shop) match B&H prices in the store.

Hey, you're lucky to still have one. They closed all locations in Colorado, including a store five minutes from my house. They weren't too helpful to me on bodies and lenses since they were mainly a Nikon/Sony shop, but it was still a convenient place for prints when I needed something faster than Adorama, and they stocked some rather nicely constructed Vivitar center-pinch lens caps.

Get a lens on that beast and post up some pictures. OP needs to deliver!

flip-mode wrote:

Get a lens on that beast and post up some pictures. OP needs to deliver!

Working on it. Got some shots from the RC field today that are uploading now. They are resized and recompressed from the originals though. Didn't feel like uploading a bunch of 6-10MB files this evening. There was something on the sensor that showed up in shots of the sky as a vertical band in the left of the frame, almost top to bottom. It looks like I might have a speck of dust on back of the lense as the sensor cleaning didn't clear it at it is fair sized but not particularly dark as it would be if it were on the sensor.

Its a nice, nice camera. I'm in the process of reading the manual to figure out what some of the more esoteric settings do. I'm also going to have to figure out how to handle the huge files it produces. My first overall thoughts are that the ergonomics are good. The display is wonderful (says someone coming from an old D70s). And all in all, I have a lot of playing to do.

--SS

Here are some random shots from the day.

SecretSquirrel wrote:

I'm also going to have to figure out how to handle the huge files.

How about a couple of huge or ginormous SDXC cards for the camera and a couple of good-sized or large hard-drives in RAID1?

JustAnEngineer wrote:

SecretSquirrel wrote:

I'm also going to have to figure out how to handle the huge files.

How about a couple of huge or ginormous SDXC cards for the camera and a couple of good-sized or large hard-drives in RAID1?

I've got a pair of 16GB class 10 card for the camera and a 16TB array for storage. Local handling isn't really a problem, it's putting them up online. I could just upload the 6MP images from the D70s as they came off the camera. I'll have to resize and possibly recompress these before putting them online.

--SS

SecretSquirrel wrote:

JustAnEngineer wrote:

SecretSquirrel wrote:

I'm also going to have to figure out how to handle the huge files.

How about a couple of huge or ginormous SDXC cards for the camera and a couple of good-sized or large hard-drives in RAID1?

I've got a pair of 16GB class 10 card for the camera and a 16TB array for storage. Local handling isn't really a problem, it's putting them up online. I could just upload the 6MP images from the D70s as they came off the camera. I'll have to resize and possibly recompress these before putting them online.

--SS

I'm currently using Lightroom -> Flikr, though there are definitely free alternatives. If you shoot LRAW and then a smaller JPEG, the JPEGs usually make for easy out of camera stock for immediate upload proofs, with the full RAWs available to adjust the original data for any desired presentation.

Just wanted to come back and give an update. This last weekend, I got to put the camera to real use. I had an RC warbird event and my daughter had a dance recital. I was shooting with a pair of D7100s. One had the 18-200, F3.5-5.6VR on it. The other, the 70-200, F2.8 VRII and a 1.4x teleconverter. When I was shooting at the dance recital, I shot with the 70-200, without the teleconverter. I am afraid I am going to have to plop down a big chunk of change for the 70-200.

Taken with the 70-200 in a dark auditorium, hand held from the back of the auditorium, stage lights only.

300mm (effective), F2.8, 1/640, ISO 640


Taken with the 18-200 under gray overcast.

112mm, F5.3, 1/2000, ISO 500

The 18-200 is a quite respectable lense, but the 70-200 is so much faster, not that I would expect any different. I'm going to have to rent the 24-70, 2.8 as I think it may do very well for some of the sports stuff I need.

--SS

I'm glad you see what the 70-200/2.8 can do for you. Its a nice shot you have there of the dance.

Remember to shop around for the right 70-200/2.8. There are lots of options. I believe ludi just sold a Tokina, which is one I've long thought about. There is just no replacement for that fast aperture and what it can do for low light and high speed photography.

Also, you may want to look at the 28-75, also. It tends to be a lot less expensive. I love my Tamron, and it really is a great lens. I love the range. I just don't need 24-28mm like many people do. And I love the 75mm because most of the flashes I've used have 75mm as a pre-set, which is nice when I don't want to futz around with manual mode and just shoot.