My next Canon long zoom?

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My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 12:32 am

A friend of mine may pick up my faithful-but-heavy Tokina ATX 80-200mm f/2.8 and Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM, and I'm ready to lighten my camera bag a bit, so I'm thinking that my ideal lens is probably the Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM. I could also afford a second-hand, Mk-I version of the 70-200 f/2.8L (non-IS), but the general consensus seems to be a noticeable loss of sharpness when stopped wide open (probably still better than the Tokina, of course).

I'm shooting with a 7D, so I have usable ISO-3200 and I rarely shoot at high shutter speeds in low light, so I'm thinking f/4 would be enough and the IS with slower shutter speeds would be a suitable stop-gap for the exceptional cases. But, maybe there's another option I should consider?
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 3:16 am

Go for it, your logic is sound, and the 70-200 f4 IS USM is IMO the best of the 70-200 L lenses, the 2.8 ones are a tad too bulky for whole day usage.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 4:30 am

I think what you've said makes sense. They're really isn't a non-canon lens that can compete with any variety of the 70-200mm.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 8:17 am

Have you looked at the new Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC USD? It has image stabilization and the USD is pretty nice (I've got it on my 70-300). It is not yet available for the Sony, but it is out for Canon and Nikon. Its worth a look if nothing else. Plus, Tamron's 6 year warranty always entices me. Its twice what anyone else's is.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 8:42 am

I use it regularly, and have for a couple of years, probably my favourite of the Canon zooms and lighter than the 2.8 but it is plastic. Its pretty sharp at 4 (plenty sharp) and holds its stop through the whole zoom. If you can afford it, worth every penny.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 9:29 am

TheEmrys wrote:Have you looked at the new Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC USD? It has image stabilization and the USD is pretty nice (I've got it on my 70-300). It is not yet available for the Sony, but it is out for Canon and Nikon. Its worth a look if nothing else. Plus, Tamron's 6 year warranty always entices me. Its twice what anyone else's is.


I don't reach for a tele nearly often enough, but either a Sigma/Tamron 70-200/2.8 'IS' or Canon's 70-200/4L IS has me interested. Unfortunately, that means that I don't have a recommendation for the OP, other than to go try them out. I think that the lower weight and guaranteed sharpness of the Canon might put it ahead, but with the higher low-light noise of Canon's crop sensors, the wider aperture might be more useful on a telezoom; the Canon lens is a few hundred cheaper too, I believe.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 11:17 am

Airmantharp wrote:
TheEmrys wrote:Have you looked at the new Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC USD? It has image stabilization and the USD is pretty nice (I've got it on my 70-300). It is not yet available for the Sony, but it is out for Canon and Nikon. Its worth a look if nothing else. Plus, Tamron's 6 year warranty always entices me. Its twice what anyone else's is.


I don't reach for a tele nearly often enough, but either a Sigma/Tamron 70-200/2.8 'IS' or Canon's 70-200/4L IS has me interested. Unfortunately, that means that I don't have a recommendation for the OP, other than to go try them out. I think that the lower weight and guaranteed sharpness of the Canon might put it ahead, but with the higher low-light noise of Canon's crop sensors, the wider aperture might be more useful on a telezoom; the Canon lens is a few hundred cheaper too, I believe.


The Tamron USD (not the prior versions) is an amazingly sharp lens. At Lensrentals.com, Roger will have his "take" on lenses. Here is his on this lens:

I call this one The Napoleon – it’s a bit short (of 200mm) but still kicks butt. The Tamron is very sharp throughout the zoom range, autofocuses much, much quicker than the older Tamron superzooms did, and the Vibration Control is excellent.
Is it as good as the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II? No, not quite. The Canon is one of the best zoom lenses ever made. But it’s close to that and less expensive. I don’t find it quite the great value for Canon shooters that I do for Nikon shooters, though. The price difference isn’t as great and the IS II is a bit better lens than the VR II. Still, the Tamron can save you some money and you won’t be disappointed in it, it’s excellent.


If it as close to the II version as is claimed, I'd give it a very long look, even to the point of renting it.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 11:23 am

In an aside, I have a hard time wrapping my head around an f/4 70-2x0 with the prevalence of Minolta beercan lenses out there for $100. But, brands have differences so there ya go.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sat May 18, 2013 12:28 pm

I still cry myself to sleep at night missing my Canon 70-200 f2.8.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sun May 19, 2013 10:43 pm

TheEmrys wrote:In an aside, I have a hard time wrapping my head around an f/4 70-2x0 with the prevalence of Minolta beercan lenses out there for $100. But, brands have differences so there ya go.


For Sony, that should be a pretty effective lens, given the in-body image stabilization. For Canon, all of the 70-200 lenses have amazing quality, and they're all 'L' glass that have weather sealing and ruggedized exteriors as well, which you pay for. The stabilized versions add Canon's top-quality IS, which is more effective at telephoto ranges than Sony's (and many M43 bodies') IBIS technology due to being engineered in the glass, and you pay for that as well :).
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Sun May 19, 2013 11:13 pm

I'd run across some comparison of the two somewhere. They came out pretty even. Interesting read, but not sure if I agree with the conclusions. I believe the Canon looks better at f/4 in the first set of pics. But, for a price:performance, I'm thrilled with my $80 beercan. And I don't quite agree with the conclusion, but if it hangs anywhere close to the L, I'm happy.

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/03/24/minolta-70-210mm-f4-versus-canon-70-200mm-f4-l-is/

Have you ever held one? The all metal construction is pretty stout, but I believe its about the same weight as the L, despite being smaller. But, its a fun shooter. If you get a chance to play around with it, you should. The AF really doesn't compare to the new, quiet setups, but its pretty torquey. Best part is that if you break it, you can either try to fix it yourself, send it to a shop, or just buy a new one. For only being made for three years, these stupid lenses were made to last. They are everywhere.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon May 20, 2013 1:16 am

TheEmrys wrote:Have you looked at the new Tamron 70-200/2.8 VC USD? It has image stabilization and the USD is pretty nice (I've got it on my 70-300). It is not yet available for the Sony, but it is out for Canon and Nikon. Its worth a look if nothing else. Plus, Tamron's 6 year warranty always entices me. Its twice what anyone else's is.

I haven't, but on quick inspection, that's too much money for a third party lens IMO...especially since the Canons have both the weather-sealing and a lightweight-yet-durable housing (magnesium alloy, I think). I owned a 70-200mm f/4L (non-IS) for a while and it had the construction quality and operational feel of Mt. Palomar. I mainly switched to the Tokina f/2.8 because, at the time, I was shooting with a 40D and it became extremely noisy at ISO-1600, so I needed the extra light.

In fact the Tokina is still a very nice lens, it's just too heavy. I can hand-stabilize it easily with all that mass, but it is a wearying thing to carry around.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:16 pm

I have the 70-200 f4 too.

I bet 90% of the time I don't miss the 2.8. Especially since it is that much lighter. I have used the 2.8 IS mark 1, but not any of the other third part lenses.

Maybe it has changed, but i'm pretty sure the f4 non-IS is NOT weather sealed? I don't have a 1D so my body isn't weather sealed so I still baby everything in the rain.


It was my first L lens and i've been happy with it. I can't go back to variable aperture lenses!
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:05 pm

Oddly enough I'm now leaning more toward a Markk-1 70-200 f/2.8 (non-IS). These seem to show up like clockwork for about $950 (+/-$75) on eBay. I can probably do the same things with that which I can do with an f/4L IS, and since it uses a 77mm filter ring which I could share with my Canon 17-55 and Tokina 12-24, I wouldn't have to go buy a second, expensive set of 67mm filters. That's an extra $150 which I didn't really account for when price comparing the f/4L models.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:18 pm

ludi wrote: I wouldn't have to go buy a second, expensive set of 67mm filters.

http://www.adorama.com/FLU6777.html
:wink:

My EF-S 10-22, EF-S 17-55 IS USM and EF 100-400L all share the same 77mm filter size.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:21 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
ludi wrote: I wouldn't have to go buy a second, expensive set of 67mm filters.

http://www.adorama.com/FLU6777.html
:wink:

Well, yeah, there's that option but it gets in the way of flipping the lens hood. Plus my only other (eventual) acquisition goal is to lose the Tokina 12-24 f/4 (77mm) and replace it with the Canon ultrawide (77mm) you've got, so standardizing my zooms at 77mm seems the logical way to go.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:35 pm

I'm still looking very closely at Tamron's 70-200/2.8 VC.

Sharpness appears excellent (where Sigma fails) and comparable to the Canon mk.1 IS, while weight and size are a dead ringer among all 70-200/2.8 stabilized lenses. Tamron even got the autofocus up to near-Canon speed.

One thing I'm also liking about the third party lenses here- they aren't white. That's one thing that's been getting to me about lugging around a DSLR- people notice, even when you have a minimum kit, and it gets worse when you add a lens of any length or an external flash, even a small one. I can't imagine the extra attention garnered by a Canon big white, which is why I'm balancing it against the mk.1 IS, as well as longer tele-zooms (assuming that an eventual 70-200/2.8 would be taking teleconverters).

Only my 40/2.8 seems relatively discrete, but at least it's sharp :).
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:43 pm

Why the fascination with zoom lenses? I notice you guys shoot little else. I'm kinda poor and still recovering from $850 I dropped on the XF 14mm for my Fuji X-E1. I just buy prime lenses because I can get better quality than a zoom in the area I'm interested in. I know zooms have come a long way since I got into photography and deliver pretty fine images across their range but still a prime at that focal length, given similar pricing will be better. As well you can equal the quality of a zoom at a certain focal length for quite a bit less money.

A lot of the fun I get from photography is getting to the place I can get the picture from. I have a trip planned to photograph a mountain nearby. It will take me 20K of brutal logging road to get to where I can climb, well hike up really, another 4K onto the shoulder of the mountain. I plan to spend 2 days up there to fully explore the possibilities. There are much easier places to get to that will yield some pretty fine shots but this particular place is the prime 'mountain portrait' position as far as I can tell. As well there are no shots from this particular position that I can find.

Now I just do nature photography and it would be easy for me to just stand there and work the zoom for lots of stuff. I much prefer getting to the prime spot and shooting from there. This probably why I don't like zooms. If I shot sports or weddings, never again, I would be all over a zoom or two.

Heh, answered my own question.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Why not?

Actually, look at my signature :). I have two standard zooms (and the EF-S one only fits the 60D, both of which are on the auction block) and one cheap tele-zoom. I'm pining to upgrade the tele-zoom to something faster, and when it comes to moving and shooting telephoto, zooms tend to have the edge as you'll still get better resolution than a sharper prime if the prime can't get the composition right.

Next to those, I have five primes, and I definitely shoot them more if I have a choice. Especially for nature/landscape shots as you describe, most zooms expose all of their faults, whereas the prime's faults become easier to work around.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:39 pm

For me, it all comes down to the use. For me, I kept a 24mm prime for landscapes... which I never took. With the whole wife and child thing going on, I just didn't have the time. So, since I don't do landscapes, it was easy to part with the lens. Now, if you have read through another thread of mine, I nearly pulled the trigger on a 300/4. The goal would have been to use it with a 1.4x teleconverter to get me to a 420/5.6 for wildlife. However, I came to the conclusion that I could go to a nearly-new Sony 70-400G lens. At 300mm, they are equally sharp. The difference being that the prime could do it at f/4 while the G was at f/5.6. But while I lost a full stop of light at that range, 300mm for elk is rarely where they will be. I need the zoom to get my shots framed, particularly with an animal that can spook easy. My shots will use the whole range. And it is sharp enough that I could sell my AF500/8 without a qualm. The G is simply sharper cropped at 400mm to 500mm ranges than the prime was.

That being said, one of my happiest purchases has been a Minolta 135/2.8 "pocket rocket." An amazing lens, and its tiny! Far smaller than anything barring my 50/1.7. If I did more (any) portrait shooting/work, I would have to decide between the CZ135mm and the Sony 135mm STF. If you haven't seen what an STF can do, you should really research it. It was designed to create the most perfect bokeh. If it didn't succeed, it is awfully close. Actually, here is a link for some examples. But, I just don't do the shooting to warrant those amazing primes.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:54 pm

Cool. Ummm bokeh, I had a 4x5 a while ago. These are a from an 150 Schneider Apo Symmar 5.6.

Image

Image

Now the really crazy people buy stupid expensive ancient lenses, largely from this guy these days. I give you Jim Galli:

Image

Taken on a Pinkham & Smith Semi Achromatic


I am actually thinking of diving right into photography again. My little Fuji has been a real turn on.

I will need a naked Nikon D 800. They rip out all the filters:
http://www.spencerscamera.com/store/sto ... gory_ID=15

That will break me, then I guess the 85mm 1.8 will do for a start, oh and a few filters. ;)
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:38 am

PenGun wrote: I am actually thinking of diving right into photography again. My little Fuji has been a real turn on.

I will need a naked Nikon D 800. They rip out all the filters:
http://www.spencerscamera.com/store/sto ... gory_ID=15

That will break me, then I guess the 85mm 1.8 will do for a start, oh and a few filters. ;)


That's a world of hurt right there- what's wrong with the Fuji for astro? It seems to have one of the more dynamic sensors on the market, as evidenced by your excellent submissions in this thread!
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:57 am

I print. It's not enough pixels for a 16x20 although I am thinking of trying some stitching. As well the D 800 has more dynamic range than pretty near anything else, which for what I like to do is pretty useful. With the filters gone they are even sharper than the 800E.

It may be crazy but stripping the filters seems like a good idea. I will be able to, for instance, decide on my IR cutoff, which for some landscape could add depth of tone. Stuff like that could be fascinating and I have discovered my Fuji takes great astro photos with little effort so a wide open D 800 would be amazing. Seeing from low UV to fairly deep IR gives that stuff a real boost. Of course IR photography will become easier and better too.

I dunno, I'll have some money in the fall so it's not like I will impulse buy the Nikon. I'll see what happens with my photography till that time and that should tell me if I need to go big. I like Nikons as well, I loved my FM2.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:07 am

I mainly use zooms because I shoot a very wide range of subjects (many of them moving) and at a wide range of distances. For closeup work I have an EF-S 60mm f/2.8 macro and for portraiture I have an EF 85mm f/1.8. For most other shooting I don't need the wide aperture that primes can offer.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:19 pm

I've got the EF 100mm f/2.8 macro USM for up-close photos and the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM for portraits. The macro lens is very sharp and also provides pleasing portraits for subjects that match its focal length.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:36 pm

The 85/1.8 is something special for portraits- but man, you'll be scrounging out the longitudinal chromatic aberration all day. Thankfully Lightroom is pretty good at it, and I don't think that there's any lens I'd rather have that's good for both portraits and fast telephoto shots outside of the very similar 100/2 and the expensive 135/2L. Certainly don't trust Sigma's AF to compete what Canon has done on those lenses.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:47 pm

I just worked out a swap for my Tamron 90/2.8 Macro for a Sigma 50/1.4 HSM. Pretty excited and a great deal. I use a 50mm/1.7 all the time indoors (kid pics) and wow does it perform.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:06 pm

ludi wrote:I mainly use zooms because I shoot a very wide range of subjects (many of them moving) and at a wide range of distances. For closeup work I have an EF-S 60mm f/2.8 macro and for portraiture I have an EF 85mm f/1.8. For most other shooting I don't need the wide aperture that primes can offer.


If you're okay with the 7D's noise profile at high ISOs then you won't go wrong with any of the Canon f/4 zooms. I've owned a few of the 70-200s (both f/4s and the 2.8 IS) and the 24-105 and always got a much higher percentage of keepers with the 2.8. At the time I was shooting a 40D, which has a high-precision cross-type sensor for f/2.8 and larger aperture lenses (the center point). Maybe that's why I did better with the 2.8. I was shooting a lot of tennis, daytime but also under stadium lights, which can be pretty demanding even for fast glass on 1-series bodies.

But that's the only reason I'd think about the 2.8, to have that high-precision sensor available. The 7D's AF is quite a bit better than the earlier Canon crop bodies though; it has the same high-precision center point but also all 19 points are 5.6 cross-type sensitive, which is pretty cool. On the 40D there are only 9 such points. The arrays on the 2 bodies are the same size but the 7D's is twice as dense.

If you're happy with your keeper rate now then you won't miss the 2.8 sensor. If that's the case I'd grab the f/4 IS. It's a nice lens for everything but action or low-light candids. Of course 2.8 gathers twice as much light as f/4 ... and IS doesn't do a thing for subject motion...

They say the best camera/lens is the one you have with you so consider the weight of the 2.8 before you buy it. If that stops you from grabbing it on the way out the door... Me I accepted it right away, the first day once I saw the bokeh and the action-stopping shots I got with it, shots the f/4 could never give me. But carrying it around all day is def a commitment. A monopod can help (though I rarely used it with the 70-200) but of course a monopod is another thing you'll have to carry.

You sound like you know your shooting style and preferences pretty well. I'd only suggest thinking a bit about whether you'll ever want to expand into low-light or action photography (sports, kids running around, etc) where fast glass really earns its keep.
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:30 pm

Airmantharp wrote:The 85/1.8 is something special for portraits- but man, you'll be scrounging out the longitudinal chromatic aberration all day. Thankfully Lightroom is pretty good at it, and I don't think that there's any lens I'd rather have that's good for both portraits and fast telephoto shots outside of the very similar 100/2 and the expensive 135/2L. Certainly don't trust Sigma's AF to compete what Canon has done on those lenses.


Yeah any fast lens like that that is not an apo will have quite a lot. Even the 1.4G has quite a bit. For my use, outside of portraits, it will always be stopped down to it's best, or close to, aperture. I had considered the expensive tilt shift 85mm but I think focus stacking will do the trick. I'm not sure about that yet.

The Fuji lenses are very clean and free of most chromatic aberration. Still they are DX size and that is a bit easier to get right.
Fuji X-E1 Leica Elmar 135 4 XF60mm 2.4 Macro | Zeiss FE 35mm 2.8
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PenGun
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Re: My next Canon long zoom?

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:30 pm

I really think it's just that Canon's designs are ancient. Makes you wish Sigma was better with AF and production quality, as their designs and performance (for the good copies) appear outstanding. Unfortunately, Canon seems to be more interested in making stabilized versions of their wide lenses than upgrading the optics of their tele's; only the 100L IS Macro appears to be a new-ish design, but it's also a 2.8, limiting it's portrait use.

But along those veins: Sigma has their 180/2.8 OS Macro, and I can't seem to find much about it. Seems like it might make a very good 'universal' telephoto lens, if it weren't as expensive as Tamron's 70-200/2.8 VC and nearly as big and heavy. I'd definitely trade in my 100L for it if it performs, though.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
Airmantharp
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