Need advice on camera switch

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Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:38 am

Well, I don't really know what to do here. Call it a strong temptation for GAS. A fellow member at Dyxum is willing to trade me an a7r for my a99. Here is what I am struggling with... he will also sell me both the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 for $1,500. Both of these lenses are tremendous performers, with the 55mm being as sharp and almost as contrast-y as a 55mm Zeiss MF OTUS. I lust for this lens, and 50mm is my most used focal length. I love my 50mm. Here is the issue: I would have to sell my Minolta 80-200 HS G to swing it. I love this lens. It is not just a high speed focusing lens, but it is capable of incredibly sharp and contrast-y pictures itself. This is the lens I will use for any sort of sports indoor performances for my kids. It lacks the silence of a more modern lens, but in terms of speed and IQ, its top-notch. And substituting it for the forthcoming 70-200/4, will really not be a substitute as it is losing that critical stop.

So, here is what I am factoring into my decision:
a7r: Incredible IQ (sharpness, contrast, DR), slow AF (does matter for me with kid pictures), smaller in a good way, poorer battery life, no charger or spare batteries in my possession.
a99: IBIS, very high quality IQ (pretty sharp, amazing DR, equal contrast), fast AF, big (but in a good way), I have a complete kit of lenses for just about everything I need, 2 spare batteries and two chargers (kind of a big deal).

Here is the approximate values for my current lenses I would sell:
Sony 50/1.4 - $300
Tamron 28-75/2.8 - $275
Tamron 90/2.8 Di Macro - $275
Minolta 80-200 HS G - $1,200
Minolta 24-105 - $150
Minolta 17-35/2.8-4 - $300
Minolta 35-105 - $100
Minolta 100-300 APO - $150

In total, I could actually just get $1550 for everything aside from my 80-200. If I could do that, I would make this trade in a heartbeat. To be honest, I would really prefer the a7 over a7r. The AF speed would be a nice upgrade. I could live with a 35mm, 55mm, and 80-200 kit. But then I would need to find an LEA4 adapter for my 80-200, another ~$350.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:35 am

Looking at that, I don't think you should. I'd probably still do it, stricken by GAS, but your a99 fits all your needs, you have a lot of awesome lenses for it, and you have all the accessories. The a7r has slightly higher IQ, but it's AF is nowhere near as good, the battery life is rather abysmal, and IBIS is a nice feature. Plus, from my reading before buying the a7, AF with the adapter is quite slow. Yes, the FE 55/1.8 is fantastic, but I'm honestly not super-impressed with the 35mm. After going through almost the entire a7(r) pictures thread on the FredMiranda forums, it was impressive, but I think it was blown away by some Contax 35mm lenses that aren't much more expensive, even if they are MF only.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:32 pm

Do it! If you don't, you'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:32 pm

If you really want an a7 I'd avoid the a7R. The a99 is a pretty nice camera already.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:15 pm

Well, I went and did something. I am selling it all and going a7, with the 35, 55, and 24-70. I'll also have the adapter for my trusty beercan 70-210/4 and my 100-300 APO. Now I need to get a good CY adapter for some Contax lenses my friend has.....
Sony a7
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:34 pm

Yeats wrote:Do it! If you don't, you'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.


I'd have said don't do it- at least, don't do it until Sony has performed another miracle with on-sensor autofocus, and more and better lenses are available. The A7 is not going to be the 'action' camera that the a99 is, both due to slower AF and due to the lack of IBIS for anything other than FE-mount zooms. And other than the FE 1.8/55, the lenses are rather average- the FE 35/2.8 being bested by Canon's 35/2 IS, both faster and stabilized, and the FE 24-70/4 being about on par with Canon's budget 24-70/4L half-macro, itself fairly underwhelming.

I apologize if I'm coming off overly 'not impressed' with the A7; the A7R with the FE55 or a brilliant adapted lens makes for a stout combination that's more versatile than a D800E with respect to lens choice- you can use Canon TS-E L lenses, fast L primes, and world-beating L zooms with dead-accurate AF!- but the A7 doesn't come off as incredibly useful just yet. Either get the camera that's going to make the best use of your lenses, or keep the camera that's going to capture the image most of the time :).
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:22 pm

I'd have to give up too much sharpness going with a Canon, and then have to find a body..... I really hope they come out with their new bodies soon. They are seriously getting left behind. And yeah, I would prefer the 35/2.8 to be stabilized and/or faster, but its just a sharp lens with that Zeiss 3d pop. I am highly impressed with it. Plus, the 24-70/4 looks awfully good as a zoom. It hangs with the Canon f/2.8 and trounces the f/4. And I am finding that I just have too many lenses. Sure, they are good, but they overlap everywhere. I want to keep it simple, and high quality.

I am curious about the TS lenses, but I just don't do enough landscape/cityscape to justify it. May end up renting one or two.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:35 pm

I wouldn't recommend Canon unless you need their lenses or AF- I'm much more likely to recommend Nikon for DSLRs or Fuji or Olympus for mirrorless. Of course, Canon can change that in a heartbeat if they're so inclined.

But Sony's nascent full-frame mirroless? It's a hard sell if you're not a landscaper/studio/still life shooter. If you want mobile, there are options with far better autofocus and better lens selection elsewhere, and all of that resolution and DR advantage will be for naught if you can't get the subject in focus and stop motion :-p.

That's why giving up the a99 and A-mount lenses doesn't make much sense to me. You have the equivalent of a D600, essentially, likely with a better build and better ergonomics (the D600 is slightly crippled for product segmentation). An A7 will still be no speed demon, and an A7R will be downright infuriating, and nothing less than new bodies and new sensors from Sony is going to change that, which means an additional large expense on your side assuming that you want to get back to where you are now!

Also, if you're dead-set on a high-quality normal prime, what's wrong with this guy?
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:46 pm

Mostly, its huge. I had a Sigma 50 hsm, and it was tremenous... and huge. I am tired of all the gear and it having to be huge to be good. The 50mm is my most used lens, and to get the best atthat price is amazing. Throw in a 35 as a walkaround and landscape, and I will be in heaven. I don't need the fastest AF, but I got a chance to use one and it is fast enough. And then the a7 is the best for adapting lenses to (cy may be in my future) makes it a better.option. Throw in its electronic front curtain and dual af, and I am happy. The new firmware coming out allays all of my concerns. And I find the jpegs to be stunning. I don't need 36mp and I want an AA filter.to keep the moire out, so its easier. And, at this size, my wife can shoot it comortably.
Sony a7
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:01 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Yeats wrote:Do it! If you don't, you'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life.


I'd have said don't do it-


Eh, I actually had no real cogent opinion on the matter, but I'll always have Casablanca.

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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:01 pm

Size and image quality is where it's at- that's Sony's coup in the photography market. They wouldn't want to piss off Nikon and Pentax by continuing to compete in the DSLR space, after all :).

And if the AF is good enough for you, then that's awesome. AF is one of the reasons I'm sticking with DSLRs for now, I'm not ready to make that compromise!
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:33 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Size and image quality is where it's at- that's Sony's coup in the photography market. They wouldn't want to piss off Nikon and Pentax by continuing to compete in the DSLR space, after all :).


Pentax is in their own weird, unprofitable space, anyway. And Sony was spectacularly unsuccessful in the DSLR market.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:09 pm

Yeats wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:Size and image quality is where it's at- that's Sony's coup in the photography market. They wouldn't want to piss off Nikon and Pentax by continuing to compete in the DSLR space, after all :).


Pentax is in their own weird, unprofitable space, anyway. And Sony was spectacularly unsuccessful in the DSLR market.


Yet Sony made, and Pentax makes, truly solid DSLRs/DSLTs. But only Canon knows how to be truly profitable in that market, even when needing a sensor upgrade!
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:25 pm

On light leaks, for the A7/A7R-bound.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:53 pm

On JPEG quality - oranges, browns and yellows really aren't great straight off the camera. Blues and other cool colors are pretty good. Evidence (RAW | JPEG):
Image
Ignore the bottom portion - I don't really want to go back and fix it...

But I love my a7. The 55mm is fantastic (the only better 50-55mm I've seen is the Otus, and that's $4000...). I'd honestly vote for trying out some adapted 35mms before settling on the FE 35mm. If you're using it for architecture and landscapes, AF doesn't really matter, and for the price I think there are better options. Maybe browse some a7 threads to narrow it down.

Word of warning on adapted lenses though, even some old FF lenses vignette like crazy (but the colors are fantastic, as this is straight off of the camera, with no edits, except to brighten it by 1 stop as I accidentally underexposed)
Image
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:00 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Yeats wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:Size and image quality is where it's at- that's Sony's coup in the photography market. They wouldn't want to piss off Nikon and Pentax by continuing to compete in the DSLR space, after all :).


Pentax is in their own weird, unprofitable space, anyway. And Sony was spectacularly unsuccessful in the DSLR market.


Yet Sony made, and Pentax makes, truly solid DSLRs/DSLTs. But only Canon knows how to be truly profitable in that market, even when needing a sensor upgrade!


Sony was unfairly (IMO) snubbed for not being a "real camera company." Pentax was late to the digital game, and has had too many (el cheapo) owners with different visions - or lack thereof. Also, sticking with the ungainly K-mount is no longer helping.

If Sony A7 or Fuji had IBIS, I might be shooting them.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 pm

Airmantharp wrote:On light leaks, for the A7/A7R-bound.


Yeah, Imaging-Resource has been tracking this for a while. Much ado about nothing, except for the cameras-are-gadgets crowd.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:17 pm

lonleyppl wrote:But I love my a7. The 55mm is fantastic (the only better 50-55mm I've seen is the Otus, and that's $4000...). I'd honestly vote for trying out some adapted 35mms before settling on the FE 35mm. If you're using it for architecture and landscapes, AF doesn't really matter, and for the price I think there are better options. Maybe browse some a7 threads to narrow it down.

Word of warning on adapted lenses though, even some old FF lenses vignette like crazy (but the colors are fantastic, as this is straight off of the camera, with no edits, except to brighten it by 1 stop as I accidentally underexposed)
Image


Interesting. On Pentax Forums some users have been testing Pentax lenses on the Sony A7, and all the pre-digital lenses seem to work very well.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:21 pm

Yeats wrote:Also, sticking with the ungainly K-mount is no longer helping.


How is the K-mount more ungainly than the E-mount or Canon's EF-S mount? Serious question, as I've been using K-mount lens caps on E-mount lenses, and they're visually pretty similar.

Yeats wrote:Interesting. On Pentax Forums some users have been testing Pentax lenses on the Sony A7, and all the pre-digital lenses seem to work very well.


Yeah, I've noticed my Vivitar 70-210mm also vignettes a bit, but only in Macro mode or wide open at 210mm. My 55/1.8 is fantastic on this body though. Following the a7(r) pictures thread on Fred Miranda, it seems like a lot of the ultra and super wide lenses have vignetting issues. On my Sigma, it's entirely cleared up by 35mm.

Since I use the same adapter for the Vivitar and the Sigma, I'm wondering if that may be the issue.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:37 pm

lonleyppl wrote:
Yeats wrote:Also, sticking with the ungainly K-mount is no longer helping.


How is the K-mount more ungainly than the E-mount or Canon's EF-S mount? Serious question, as I've been using K-mount lens caps on E-mount lenses, and they're visually pretty similar.


The problem is that the lenses which make Pentax unique - the Limiteds - are generally designed to be physically small lenses. But the K-mount's registration distance is now huge compared with Fuji, Sony, etc. and as a total package a Pentax DSLR + Limited lens is comparatively bulky. K-mount and EF-S have more than twice the flange distance as E-mount and Fuji XF, I think.

Edit: I'm speaking in a purely modern context. I think it's great that every Pentax lens made since 1975 works easily and excellently on any Pentax body, and all those lovely m42 lenses as well, with a cheap adapter.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:04 pm

Yeats wrote:
The problem is that the lenses which make Pentax unique - the Limiteds - are generally designed to be physically small lenses. But the K-mount's registration distance is now huge compared with Fuji, Sony, etc. and as a total package a Pentax DSLR + Limited lens is comparatively bulky. K-mount and EF-S have more than twice the flange distance as E-mount and Fuji XF, I think.

Edit: I'm speaking in a purely modern context. I think it's great that every Pentax lens made since 1975 works easily and excellently on any Pentax body, and all those lovely m42 lenses as well, with a cheap adapter.


Ah, gotcha. Yes, this is an issue. Neither of my K-mount lenses are particularly small, but they're monstrous with the adapter. There's also no point to my Industar 50mm pancake, as the adapter makes it quite large.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:16 pm

TheEmrys wrote:Well, I went and did something. I am selling it all and going a7, with the 35, 55, and 24-70. I'll also have the adapter for my trusty beercan 70-210/4 and my 100-300 APO. Now I need to get a good CY adapter for some Contax lenses my friend has.....


Very good. You can take that way far into the bush, with a few lenses, for the weight of a FF Canon. My 35mm 2.8 is pining away for a camera but it will have to wait. I too covet a 55 1.8 and I think a 90mm Leica of some kind to go between it and my Leica 135mm 4 would be ideal.

Lookin' good so far. ;)
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:36 pm

Yeats wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:On light leaks, for the A7/A7R-bound.


Yeah, Imaging-Resource has been tracking this for a while. Much ado about nothing, except for the cameras-are-gadgets crowd.


I was posting the solution, the problem has been tracked for some time, as you said :)
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:29 am

lonleyppl wrote:On JPEG quality - oranges, browns and yellows really aren't great straight off the camera. Blues and other cool colors are pretty good. Evidence (RAW | JPEG):


These are characteristics of the lens more than the body.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:35 am

Airmantharp wrote:
Yeats wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:On light leaks, for the A7/A7R-bound.


Yeah, Imaging-Resource has been tracking this for a while. Much ado about nothing, except for the cameras-are-gadgets crowd.


I was posting the solution, the problem has been tracked for some time, as you said :)


But, allegedly there are some where it is a real problem, and Sony is working on a solution. And its an issue with just about every camera brand out there.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/03/the-sky-is-falling-the-light-is-leaking-and-the-a7r-anti-massacree

I'll probably go the scrunchy route for my 35mm. But, if Sony issues a fix, I'll get it. I wonder if they will develop an adhesive gasket that can be stuck on at home. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:07 pm

TheEmrys wrote:
lonleyppl wrote:On JPEG quality - oranges, browns and yellows really aren't great straight off the camera. Blues and other cool colors are pretty good. Evidence (RAW | JPEG):


These are characteristics of the lens more than the body.


How do you figure? I've noticed this with all of my lenses. In this case, I'm fairly certain the shot was taken with the Sigma 21-35mm, but I've seen similar results with the kit lens, my Vivitar and my Pentax.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:52 pm

TheEmrys wrote:But, allegedly there are some where it is a real problem, and Sony is working on a solution. And its an issue with just about every camera brand out there.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/03/the-sky-is-falling-the-light-is-leaking-and-the-a7r-anti-massacree

I'll probably go the scrunchy route for my 35mm. But, if Sony issues a fix, I'll get it. I wonder if they will develop an adhesive gasket that can be stuck on at home. We'll see what happens.


"A scrunchy or such will work just fine for those times when you just have to shoot at ISO 25,000 for 30 seconds, take long exposures facing the sun, etc."

There have been "light leaks" for a century. I just can't take it too seriously. /shrug
Last edited by Yeats on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:00 pm

lonleyppl wrote:
TheEmrys wrote:
lonleyppl wrote:On JPEG quality - oranges, browns and yellows really aren't great straight off the camera. Blues and other cool colors are pretty good. Evidence (RAW | JPEG):


These are characteristics of the lens more than the body.


How do you figure? I've noticed this with all of my lenses. In this case, I'm fairly certain the shot was taken with the Sigma 21-35mm, but I've seen similar results with the kit lens, my Vivitar and my Pentax.


I think you're right, it's simply "Sony Color".
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:18 pm

Now you have me all curious. Most of my Sony lenses have always been pretty neutral, where older Minolta can be more saturated. It may even be that you are getting funky WB readings through the lens due to coatings. I'll see if I can take 4 different shots with four different lenses all at 50mm and f8. Actually, I'll go right now. Here are four lenses, with the exact same settings all at 50mm. Settings are ISO50, f11, 1/125, and WB set to 4900k. I forgot to turn off my IBIS, but we aren't looking at sharpness.

1.
Image

2.
Image

3.
Image

4.
Image
Sony a7
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Minolta 17-35/2.8-4 D, 100-300 APO
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Re: Need advice on camera switch

Postposted on Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:19 pm

Oh, the deal I had fell through. I was getting a deal with an a7, LEA4 Adapter (A mount), 2 batteries, and external charger. But, I was very torn about it. I am glad it fell through.
Sony a7
Sony Zeiss 55/1.8 SSM, 24-70/4 SSM
Minolta 17-35/2.8-4 D, 100-300 APO
TheEmrys
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 pm
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