New APS-C Leica - $1900

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New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:33 am

Looks pretty awesome.

Review at Steve Huff.

It looks like an amazingly little camera. Never thought a Leica with AF and Interchangeable lenses would come in this cheap.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:14 pm

It's incredible to see a Leica made in Germany at that price point. The build quality looks phenomenal, and I love the rendering of Leica lenses.

Though the IQ is (fantastic and far) better than the APS-C cameras from Fuji, Oly and Sony, I wonder how it compares to the a7 and a7R. Seems like it might be a bit sharper, and have slightly better colors, at the expense of high ISO performance and the FF field of view. I think I'd prefer the ergonomics of the Sony FF, as I like physical controls and the Leica body looks a bit slippery, but it's amazing to see how the market has grown in the past year.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:27 pm

I'd take Steve with a small shaker of salt. He drives people to his site for profit.

He trashed the Fuji X when it came out, he has changed his tune somewhat since then but I have little time for his opinion.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:35 pm

To summarize my perspective on Leica, in Steve Huff's words: "A camera is so much more than IQ and results."

$1900 buys you an A7R, onto which you can adapt M lenses as well, and use the full available image circle, with more resolution and dynamic range than Leica can offer :D.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:52 pm

Apparently, it uses the Sony NEX 3 sensor.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:58 pm

lonleyppl wrote:It's incredible to see a Leica made in Germany at that price point. The build quality looks phenomenal, and I love the rendering of Leica lenses.

Though the IQ is (fantastic and far) better than the APS-C cameras from Fuji, Oly and Sony, I wonder how it compares to the a7 and a7R. Seems like it might be a bit sharper, and have slightly better colors, at the expense of high ISO performance and the FF field of view. I think I'd prefer the ergonomics of the Sony FF, as I like physical controls and the Leica body looks a bit slippery, but it's amazing to see how the market has grown in the past year.

Wow. Really? You understand it's a Sony sensor I hope. So it's an an expensive take on a NEX 3n which sells for $400 and comes with a lens.

It's another Blad Lunar, eh'.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:17 pm

Based on Steve's review linked above, I'd say that the handling of the camera and the lenses available make the system. Still, I'd rather see a more impartial review not filled with superlatives that digs into what the lenses are capable of on the given sensor.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:06 pm

PenGun wrote: Wow. Really? You understand it's a Sony sensor I hope. So it's an an expensive take on a NEX 3n which sells for $400 and comes with a lens.

It's another Blad Lunar, eh'.


I didn't actually.

My comments were based entirely on Steve's review and comments below it. Even if it's using the 3n sensor, Leica is getting great results with it. Going solely from his review photos, I think it bests many of the other mirrorless APS-C cameras on the market. That may be mostly due to the lenses, and since he didn't do any laboratory tests photos, is entirely subjective. Personally, I would still rather have an a7 or an a7R, but that's just me. I'm cheap and I like the ergonomics of my Sony.

Airmantharp wrote:To summarize my perspective on Leica, in Steve Huff's words: "A camera is so much more than IQ and results."

$1900 buys you an A7R, onto which you can adapt M lenses as well, and use the full available image circle, with more resolution and dynamic range than Leica can offer :D.

But maybe with the Leica you don't get shutter shake issues? You also definitely get the name, which is important to some.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:32 pm

It looks like a pretty nice platform. Unibody is a plus. And that is an awfully nice slow lens. Would love to see it on an a6000 to compare.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:38 pm

lonleyppl wrote:But maybe with the Leica you don't get shutter shake issues? You also definitely get the name, which is important to some.


I expect Sony to rid itself of shutter-shake issues very quickly- it's clear that the A7R wasn't 'fully baked' at release, though it is fully usable. As for the Leica name- well, that just reinforces the point; Leica seems to be more about making recreational cameras than professional cameras, but likes to charge greater than professional camera prices. What a name!
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:13 pm

'Steve Huff's words: "A camera is so much more than IQ and results."'

No. That's exactly what a camera is. Results are all that matter. Steve Huff is a maroon.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:27 am

I don't know if I would go that far. I have connected with my a7 far more than I ever did with my a99 or a65. There is something about the build and feel that just connects with me that transitioned me from taking a picture to making a picture. I firmly believe that different cameras will appeal to different people. I guess something about this Leica speaks to Steve. Good for him. And, yeah, he was a bit critical of the first Fuji's, but he has been on-board for the X-T1, which is really a pretty awesome camera.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:41 am

Make that unibody in 304 SS please :)
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:39 pm

PenGun wrote:'Steve Huff's words: "A camera is so much more than IQ and results."'

No. That's exactly what a camera is. Results are all that matter. Steve Huff is a maroon.


Well, when you spend that much on a piece of kit that you use everyday, ergonomics and build quality (reliability) are important too. And Mr. Huff is known to be a Leica enthusiast. But aside from that, I've found his takes on things to be generally not that far off the mark.

But I don't expect this thing to outperform the Sony Nex APSC line. (And for a nice APSC camera, check out the new alpha 6000 - at $800 with kit lens, I'd say that thing is much better value - not to mention Sony's state of the art 24 MP APSC sensor, supposedly a more polished and better in low light version of what was in the Nex 7)

And as far as Sony sensors go, they seem to be taking over the industry. About the only major manufacturers that don't use them is who? Canon and Fuji?
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:47 pm

It's believed that Canon puts Sony sensors in some of their compacts, and that some X-Trans sensors are actually manufactured by Sony as well. Panasonic makes the current m4/3 sensors for both companies, and they compete well with Sony's offerings.

As for the Leica T vs. the A6000, well, it's only a fair comparison if you search out the very best glass for the Sony camera. Their kit lenses are trash, might as well be marked 'toy' lenses compared to similar designs from Fuji, Canon, or Nikon, and yet those all pale in comparison to what Leica built for the T. Think of Leica's 18-56 lens as a modern range-finder-sized Canikon 24-70/2.8 optically. Being slow keeps it small, and that's okay; it's an amazing optic.

I compare the Leica T more to the EOS-M than anything else; they created a small, simple, well-built camera with a great touch interface that can be adapted to use the best glass on the market, in Leica's case the M-mount lenses, and likely R-series and S-series as well. And like the EOS-M, the T-series is a great introductory camera with great initial lenses that needs to be refreshed with a better sensor and a slightly more refined body with better manual controls in order to come into it's own, but the potential of course is there!
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:45 pm

Airmantharp wrote:It's believed that Canon puts Sony sensors in some of their compacts, and that some X-Trans sensors are actually manufactured by Sony as well. Panasonic makes the current m4/3 sensors for both companies, and they compete well with Sony's offerings.

As for the Leica T vs. the A6000, well, it's only a fair comparison if you search out the very best glass for the Sony camera. Their kit lenses are trash, might as well be marked 'toy' lenses compared to similar designs from Fuji, Canon, or Nikon, and yet those all pale in comparison to what Leica built for the T. Think of Leica's 18-56 lens as a modern range-finder-sized Canikon 24-70/2.8 optically. Being slow keeps it small, and that's okay; it's an amazing optic.

I compare the Leica T more to the EOS-M than anything else; they created a small, simple, well-built camera with a great touch interface that can be adapted to use the best glass on the market, in Leica's case the M-mount lenses, and likely R-series and S-series as well. And like the EOS-M, the T-series is a great introductory camera with great initial lenses that needs to be refreshed with a better sensor and a slightly more refined body with better manual controls in order to come into it's own, but the potential of course is there!


To call all of the Sony E-mount lenses trash is a bit of a harsh generalization. Yes, most of the cheaper ones are (but there are a couple decent ones). And most of the more expensive Zeiss lenses are pretty good. Yes, perhaps not as good value in optical quality for the buck as Canon, etc, but then we're comparing to Leica here (which is rarely a value proposition). And of course, you can use those Leica lenses (as well as the canon, 1/3 the cost, etc) on the Sony with adapters...

Edit: woops. You said kit lenses are trash. Fair enough. I thought you said all E-mount lenses. Reading fail. The fact of the matter is that the a6000 is such a better value proposition (better sensor, better functionality, EVF, etc) for the body insofar as what you can get out of the camera, that I think the lens situation would be more than worth the trade-off for most.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:29 pm

cynan wrote:The fact of the matter is that the a6000 is such a better value proposition (better sensor, better functionality, EVF, etc) for the body insofar as what you can get out of the camera, that I think the lens situation would be more than worth the trade-off for most.


We can agree here; the Zeiss lenses and the lenses that Sony designs in partnership with Zeiss are always decent, and many of the Zeiss lenses are spectacular, and overall you'd likely get more utility out of an a6000-based setup than a Leica T setup, and definitely more value for sure.

I'm primarily highlighting the sheer quality of Leica's lenses- they quite literally make the best, and they charge for it.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:42 pm

Slightly off topic, but does anyone have, or have seen, Leica lenses made in Canada? I just discovered that Leica had a plant in Midland, Ontario (opened by Walter Mandler) that designed and built both cameras (such as the M4-2) and lenses (such as the Summicron 50, f1.0 Noctilux) between the mid 1950s and sometime in the 1980s (I think).

So yeah. Leica. built and designed in both Germany and Canada... Who knew?
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:58 pm

cynan wrote:Slightly off topic, but does anyone have, or have seen, Leica lenses made in Canada? I just discovered that Leica had a plant in Midland, Ontario (opened by Walter Mandler) that designed and built both cameras (such as the M4-2) and lenses (such as the Summicron 50, f1.0 Noctilux) between the mid 1950s and sometime in the 1980s (I think).

So yeah. Leica. built and designed in both Germany and Canada... Who knew?

Indeed Walter Mandler was a big part of Leica lens design through the 60s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mandler

The Canadian stuff was an important step in Leica development.

A useful Leica site:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wik ... /Main_Page

Edit:

This is a jewel, I thought it was gone from the web, I have a copy:

http://www.furnfeather.net/books/pdf/llcforweb.pdf
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:01 pm

Airmantharp wrote:I'm primarily highlighting the sheer quality of Leica's lenses- they quite literally make the best, and they charge for it.


Moreover, this is the first zoom in quite some time. Small, and excellent. Yeah, its slow, but so what? Who wouldn't use a leica prime for a faster lens? I am impressed by that zoom. Small, but sharp.

I've begun to suspect that Leica has been cooking in-camera corrections for their lenses for both RAW and JPG.
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Re: New APS-C Leica - $1900

Postposted on Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:31 pm

PenGun wrote: This is a jewel, I thought it was gone from the web, I have a copy:

http://www.furnfeather.net/books/pdf/llcforweb.pdf


This is really cool. Downloaded it. Care if it is shared with a Leica friend of mine?
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