4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

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4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Wed May 14, 2014 12:54 pm

I am trying to upgrade the monitor on our lab's confocal microscope computer. Currently it has a 1080p monitor and the resolution is very restrictive for productivity.

The refresh rate and color reproduction absolutely do not matter for this microscope! This is why I was thinking the cheap $700 Samsung U28D590D would be excellent to enhance productivity using the microscope. I am very concerned with 4K resolution being buggy and not supported well, so I would like to consult the best experts I know before being responsible for the purchase decision! Will this monitor and computer be compatible?

I have posted CPU-Z image of the computer specs below. According to Nvidia, the 550 Ti on this machine (it has two DVI outputs) does not support 4k resolution. Which graphics card should I get to work well with this computer? It doesn't need to power games or do anything 3D, but if it can drive the monitor at 60hz that would be great. It sounds like Display port 1.2 can drive this at 4k 60hz? I was previously under the impression that you have to have 2 graphics cards to run at 60hz?

Image

Thanks for the help!
Gilligan

EDIT: One last thing, the computer runs on Windows 7. Does that matter?
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 10:24 am

The thing that jumps out to me isn't the resolution but rather 'color reproduction and refresh rate' in your statements. The Samsung U28D590D isn't going to be adequate on the color reproduction side as it is a TN panel. The refresh rate is capped at 60 hz max and that's only through DisplayPort 1.2 (HDMI 1.4 is limited to 30 hz).

Considering your use-case, I'd actually take a look at some 2560 x 1600 or 2560 x 1440 resolution monitors with an IPS screen. There are some cheap Korean one's that have decent color and then some like Dell's UltraSharp line which is really good and similar price range as the Samsung. The only downside to most 2560 x 1400 monitors is that they typically top out officially at a 60 hz refresh rate. Some can be made to run at 120 Hz with some custom profiling. There is also the added benefit being able to use your current video card if you go with 2560 x 1440 resolution.


EDIT: Herp, derp. Reading comprehension fail.
Last edited by the on Sat May 17, 2014 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 10:46 am

the wrote:The thing that jumps out to me isn't the resolution but rather 'color reproduction and refresh rate' in your statements.


Gilligan wrote:The refresh rate and color reproduction absolutely do not matter for this microscope!


They may very well be imaging stuff in black and white anyway. And it's not like you need high refresh for a static image.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 11:35 am

We image things with a grand total of 4 colors at the most. Therefore accurate color reproduction is absolutely unnecessary. As long as I can tell blue, red and green apart, it will be totally fine.

I'd much rather not deal with 30hz headaches, so I really want the Displayport 1.2 to work without any bugs at 60hz. It sounds like Displayport 1.2 can do multi stream trasnport (MST) or single stream transport (SST). Since this monitor supports SST, which hopefully is less buggy than MST, I really want to know which graphics card supports Display port 1.2 SST. Since I won't be doing any 3D rendering, I just need it to work in a desktop enviroment, so a 780ti should be totally excessive correct? Which graphics should I go for then?


Thanks for the help!

Gilligan
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 11:56 am

Do you need 8 or 10 bit depth?
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 12:09 pm

Our images are taken at a max of 8bit, so 8bit is fine.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 12:27 pm

Do you really need 60Hz? I have a 39 inch Seiki 4k display I purchased for $370. It is large, has tremendous screen real estate. I don't notice the 30Hz at all at this point.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 12:56 pm

I don't have any hands-on experience with a 4K monitor so I can't help you there, but I found myself wondering if you've verified that your software can work with that kind of screen resolution? Windows will be fine with some tweaking, more or less (assuming that's your OS) but what about your imaging application? If it's old it may never have been tested at that resolution, so who knows what it does (do toolbar buttons get too small to click? does it just hit some internal limit working with onscreen bitmaps that large?) But perhaps it has been updated recently and/or you have other assurances that it'll work? (This sounds paranoid, but I've seen problems like this with essentially every technical transition or big jump in capabilities, and proprietary industry-specific software tends to be among the worst offenders).
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 1:29 pm

UberGerbil wrote:I don't have any hands-on experience with a 4K monitor so I can't help you there, but I found myself wondering if you've verified that your software can work with that kind of screen resolution? Windows will be fine with some tweaking, more or less (assuming that's your OS) but what about your imaging application? If it's old it may never have been tested at that resolution, so who knows what it does (do toolbar buttons get too small to click? does it just hit some internal limit working with onscreen bitmaps that large?) But perhaps it has been updated recently and/or you have other assurances that it'll work? (This sounds paranoid, but I've seen problems like this with essentially every technical transition or big jump in capabilities, and proprietary industry-specific software tends to be among the worst offenders).


That is definitely a concern! I will look into that. The program operates in windows on the forefront of the desktop so I can't imagine it having a problem, but perhaps it doesn't scale its size up to take advantage of the huge resolution without bugs.

Does anyone have an idea of a graphics card that definitely puts out Displayport 1.2 SST?

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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 3:16 pm

I know that my NVIDIA Geforce 670 has DP1.2 support. However, I have a Dell 4K UP2414Q monitor which only takes DP1.2 MST. But I am pretty sure the 670 supports SST for 4K too.

I am thinking any of the 6xx and up series of NVIDIA stuff that have displayport connectors can do it.

One caveat with 30 hz is the mouse lag will be very noticeable.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 4:06 pm

These are like $150:

http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/data- ... 600-us.pdf

I got some for my workplace for 10 bit color that no one ever uses, but it is DP 1.2. And hey, it's got the goods:

Max DP 1.2 Resolution 3840 × 2160 at 60Hz

I think that SST is a subset of MST? Page 2 of this: http://www.shoppds.com/digitalcontent/P ... a91d3c.pdf

DisplayPort:
- up to 3840 x 2160 x 30 bpp @ 60Hz
- supports High Bit Rate 2 (HBR2) and Multi-Stream Transport (MST)

Page 14 of this: http://www.vesa.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... rev-2b.pdf

• MST (Multi-Stream Transport) added in DisplayPort Ver.1.2
• Only SST (Single-Stream Transport) was available in Ver.1.1a

And hell, maybe it doesn't matter: http://note-to-self.baker.com/tags/displayport-1-2-mst/

Seems like 60 Hz is a MST thing only and with SST you're stuck at 30 Hz: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topi ... ew-myths-/
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2014 4:32 pm

My understand is that the new monitors like the Samsung 28" and the Dell 28" (4K) can accept 4K@60hz through DisplayPort 1.2 SST.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Sat May 17, 2014 1:35 pm

Refresh rate should not matter much looking at still pictures...sure you might see some jitters moving windows around but I dont think the amoebas and paramecium's move fast enough to ghost at 30htz :) Also as someone stated the 39 inch Seiki 4k display for $370 will do 30hrtz on HDMI and give you a nice big 4k pic.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Sat May 17, 2014 1:39 pm

Agreed. Unlike with CRTs, where a low refresh rate causes headache-inducing flicker, a low refresh rate on an LCD just means that the images don't change as quickly.
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Re: 4K Monitor for Microscope Computer - Samsung U28D590D?

Postposted on Sat May 17, 2014 4:15 pm

If you're unsure whether the microscope's imaging application is compatible with 4k or not, you might be able to do a test with hardware at hand. There are probably two DVI outputs and one HDMI output on your graphics card. If you can find two more 1920x1080 monitors and connect them to the remaining outputs, you can extend the Windows desktop to 3840x2160. Obviously, you will only see 3/4 of it but application windows can be resized to the full desktop.
Also, older graphics cards on older Windows were capable of creating a virtual desktop larger than the display. My 7600 GS goes as far as 2048x1536. Maybe newer ones can do that too.
Edit: Likewise, there might be a way to switch to 30 Hz (set custom resolutions and refresh rates) with existing hardware. So you can see for yourself if that's acceptable.
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