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Elohim
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Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:40 pm

Hey Guys,

I am looking to purchase a raid controller card to use instead of onboard motherboard raid. My goal is to be able to move the controller card with my raided drives from system to system without worrying about the raid controller changing each time I update my motherboard bios or upgrade the entire system to a new motherboard. It would be quite nice to carry my controller and drives altogether and not have to rebuild just because I swap motherboards and cpus.

So, I'm looking for something with some shelf life, 5+ years would be nice, so something with an interface that won't vanish from my motherboard selection in that time frame. I also don't want to break the bank, something mainstream, but certainly not the cream of the crop. I think something that would support at lease Raid 6, so 5 drives. SATA, not SCSI.

Any thoughts from those of you that use a non-integrated Raid controller card?

Thanks!
 
just brew it!
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:50 pm

What OS? Does the RAID array need to be bootable, or is it just for data drives?

My personal preference is to go with the OS's software RAID. That way not only is the array portable to other machines, you don't need to worry about getting an exact replacement if the controller dies.
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Elohim
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:59 pm

just brew it! wrote:
What OS? Does the RAID array need to be bootable, or is it just for data drives?

My personal preference is to go with the OS's software RAID. That way not only is the array portable to other machines, you don't need to worry about getting an exact replacement if the controller dies.


Windows 8 (soon to be windows 10), just data drives, no need for bootability (is that a word... hmm...).
 
Deanjo
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:07 pm

I would just go software raid instead of putzing around with a hardware raid controller.
 
Elohim
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:11 pm

just brew it! wrote:
What OS? Does the RAID array need to be bootable, or is it just for data drives?

My personal preference is to go with the OS's software RAID. That way not only is the array portable to other machines, you don't need to worry about getting an exact replacement if the controller dies.


What is the rebuild strategy if the windows installation drive dies? Say I reinstall Windows 10 on a new drive (same hardware base), will the new Windows 10 installation see the prior Raid 6 on the associated hard drives and pick up where the old OS left off?
 
Duct Tape Dude
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:19 pm

If performance isn't a concern I'd also go with software RAID and even look into file-based RAID implementations (as opposed to block-based ones) like StableBit's DrivePool, any of FlexRAID's offerings, or Division-M's Drive Bender (in that order).

File-based RAID takes the hassle out of moving computers and also lets you partially recover from a failure of more than the array fault tolerance (ie: lose 3 of 5 drives, recover all data from the last 2). I've been using StableBit's offerings and they're pretty decent.
 
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:37 pm

I'm also joining Duct Tape Dude and very strongly recommending you don't use a RAID controller and just go with software RAID, which doesn't care what hardware is underneath.

Even RAID-5 is fine via software these days, performance-wise.
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just brew it!
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:47 pm

What software RAID levels does Windows 10 support out-of-box though? He specifically expressed interest in RAID-6, and has now indicated that he's running Windows 10. That could be a problem for the software RAID approach.
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morphine
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:56 pm

Ah, RAID-6 means double parity. Yeah, that might be tricky with software RAID. I think Linux's mdraid can pull that off, but I'm not sure about WIndows software that does this. At this point, I'd rather have a small NAS box running Linux for hosting the pool. It's still a much safer (and probably cheaper) bet than getting a dedicated controller.

FlexRAID's new product "Standards" can apparently do any sort of RAID configuration, but it's still in the beta stage: http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,5217.0.html
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:02 pm

morphine wrote:
Ah, RAID-6 means double parity. Yeah, that might be tricky with software RAID. I think Linux's mdraid can pull that off, but I'm not sure about WIndows software that does this. At this point, I'd rather have a small NAS box running Linux for hosting the pool. It's still a much safer (and probably cheaper) bet than getting a dedicated controller.

FlexRAID's new product "Standards" can apparently do any sort of RAID configuration, but it's still in the beta stage: http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,5217.0.html

Linux can definitely do RAID-6 in software (I've done it). I have no idea what the situation is on the Windows side, either natively or with third-party software.
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:35 pm

Natively Windows Server allows for RAID-0, RAID-1, RAID-5 and Spanning (JBOD/BIG) via Dynamic Disks.

Windows Client only natively allows for RAID-0, RAID-1, and Spanning (JBOD/BIG) via Dynamic Disks.

RAID-6 is not an option via Dynamic Disks.

Amusingly if you create the RAID-5 Dynamic Disk in Windows Server it will work once ported over to a Windows Client box.
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the
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:58 pm

If you need the RAID controller for speed, I'd actually just get a PCIe NVMe drive and go from there. Even with SSDs + RAID contorller, a PCIe NVMe card tends to offer higher IOPs due to the reduction in overhead. Bandwidth is typically better too, though not always. If you're looking at a RAID card for add more bulk storage, I'll put my weight behind software recommendations that others are making and just use the RAID card for additional disk ports. Having a portable array that can migrate from system to system is invaluable in case the host system crashes and burns. Bring back the data is not tied to a specific hardware implementation.

RAID6 via software is possible through ZFS and the RAIDZ2 option. Of course it'd require a different box to host and connect via the network (there are some VM options with some wizardry but I wouldn't recommend it for production). Solutions like FreeNAS and NAS4Free can do iSCSI which does play well with Windows.
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:30 pm

Look at Windows Storage Spaces if you have Windows 10 Pro.

Simple(striped), Mirrored(2 or 3 way extended into RAID-10) and Parity(2 disk failure needs 7 disks).
Supports ReFS(additional automatic data integrity) in addition to NTFS.

Test most of it by using Disk Management to make virtual hard disks. (use diskpart.exe for manual method)
Run "diskmgmt.msc"
Menu Bar->Action->Create VHD. Use thin provisioning or make like 5-10GB fixed so SS can use them.
Control Panel->Storage Spaces

If you like, you can get fine control via PowerShell CmdLets, also some "only supported on Windows Server" features are available via CmdLets...



I have not tried this myself and not sure your needs but: Win Pro gives you Hyper-V AND Hyper-V VM can be passed disks directly, so run FreeNAS to manage your array(s). Self contained, independent of host, configure once and forget, bunch of NAS functionality, can also just move the ZFS array to a new FreeNAS box in future?
 
morphine
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:20 pm

I'll have to un-recommend Storage Spaces for RAID-5/6 purposes. Forge recently tested that, and it's horribly slow when writing.
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Elohim
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:00 am

Duct Tape Dude wrote:
If performance isn't a concern I'd also go with software RAID and even look into file-based RAID implementations (as opposed to block-based ones) like StableBit's DrivePool, any of FlexRAID's offerings, or Division-M's Drive Bender (in that order).

File-based RAID takes the hassle out of moving computers and also lets you partially recover from a failure of more than the array fault tolerance (ie: lose 3 of 5 drives, recover all data from the last 2). I've been using StableBit's offerings and they're pretty decent.


Thanks for the recommendations, I'll take a look at them all.
 
Elohim
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Re: Raid Controller Reccomendations?

Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:05 am

the wrote:
If you need the RAID controller for speed, I'd actually just get a PCIe NVMe drive and go from there. Even with SSDs + RAID contorller, a PCIe NVMe card tends to offer higher IOPs due to the reduction in overhead. Bandwidth is typically better too, though not always. If you're looking at a RAID card for add more bulk storage, I'll put my weight behind software recommendations that others are making and just use the RAID card for additional disk ports. Having a portable array that can migrate from system to system is invaluable in case the host system crashes and burns. Bring back the data is not tied to a specific hardware implementation.

RAID6 via software is possible through ZFS and the RAIDZ2 option. Of course it'd require a different box to host and connect via the network (there are some VM options with some wizardry but I wouldn't recommend it for production). Solutions like FreeNAS and NAS4Free can do iSCSI which does play well with Windows.


Speed really won't be an issue, I'm after data protection from drive loss as well as the convenience of a spanned volume being larger than an individual hard disk. This is my family/business file server. Once I get this raid array setup on the main system serving the files, I'm also going to setup a back-up system in a separate building for backups, though I haven't chosen my backup software just yet. I'm pretty sure I want something offering an iteration of backups. Something that will first back up all the files, and then backup changes to those files in iterations, but only up to about three or four copies of changed files before it dumps the first copy. I'll take suggestions for something like that as well, or just point me to a forum thread where it's been discussed already!

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