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ludi
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Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:37 pm

I note that Avast was automatically removed when I upgraded in-place from both Win7 on one laptop and Win8.1 on another. Given how spammy it has become, I won't miss it. What's the best antivirus software to use instead? Is Windows Defender sufficient, or should I install something else?
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:45 pm

I would go with Windows Defender + periodic MBAM scans.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:50 pm

I've never had a problem with Avast being spammy and it's been my real-time scanner since 2002, even now post Windows 10 installation. In addition to Avast I use Malwarebytes, Spybot, Spyware Blaster and Kapersky's TDSSKiller.

And Windows Defender has never been considered good enough to replace a real anti-malware/virus scanner.
Last edited by ultima_trev on Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:51 pm

Win8 here. Only using Defender. Before that it's been many years since I've regularly used AV software, because they started sucking in the 00s. Defender has two advantages: minimal impact, and it's default/stock, so it plays nice with everything and everything plays nice with it. If it weren't for it I'd probably not use any AV software.

The main disadvantage: No easy way to scan on demand a directory or bunch of files, since there's no Explorer context menu integration, and the commandline interface is not linked to any GUI. It also hardly works in commandline.
Last edited by meerkt on Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Deanjo
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:53 pm

IMHO Kaspersky, Defender has missed just too much in the past.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:12 pm

Defender only here. Been running Just Defender since day 1 on win 7, 8, 8.1. Never had any problems. But that may be mostly how I browse. I have a VM that I use to browse the internet and to try other things. Its an exact copy of my PC. If anything goes awry I just blow it away and start from a new image.
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ludi
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:21 pm

ultima_trev wrote:
I've never had a problem with Avast being spammy

The free version pops up little notification windows, sometimes multiple instances per day, advertising additional products and services. I don't mind it once in a while since the product is free, but there's no option in between "free with lots of notification pop-ups" and "expensive full version with features I don't want or need." I would gladly pay something like $10/year for the basic version without the spam, since IME it works pretty well, but they don't offer that.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:50 pm

ultima_trev wrote:
And Windows Defender has never been considered good enough to replace a real anti-malware/virus scanner.


WIndows Defender on Windows 8/8.1/10 is not the Windows Defender of old. It's the same as Microsoft Security Essentials now. It's also exactly the same product as their enterprise offering, System Center Endpoint Protection. When you open SCEP the only difference between WIndows Defender and SCEP is the application name in the title bar...they even use the same definition files. We've used this product exclusively at work for several years now. When we first switched to it, it was known as Forefront Endpoint Protection. It replaced Symantec Endpoint Protection and on the first scan it found things that SEP had been missing. It also uses less resources than any other AV product I've ever used.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:06 pm

Well, instead of anecdotal evidence, actually AVReports does objective testing of AV suites with detection rate, performance impact, # of false positives, UI's ease of use, malware removal efficacy, etc.

Image

If you want free (like me), Avira is the best (from the 2014 Summary Report). BitDefender is technically the top-rated, but it's free version is buggy (quarantined files used to be automatically deleted; unable to properly exclude folders from scans, etc.). Avira, on the other hand, is relatively bug-free.

Microsoft Defender only catches 89% of threats, while most of the top-tier ones (some which of are free, too) are 99%+.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:33 pm

Image
 
arunphilip
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:18 pm

+1 to Windows Defender.

If you're switching from products like Avast, AVG, etc. just be prepared for Windows Defender to be 'invisible'. When I moved from AVG, I was so conditioned to AVG regularly popping things up, showing a green status, etc. that I felt weird that Windows Defender went into the background, and just worked. Once I got over that initial transition blues, I appreciated Windows Defender since it went about its business quietly, updating automatically, etc. and let me get on with using my computer.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:05 pm

just brew it! wrote:
I would go with Windows Defender + periodic MBAM scans.

This is what I use, along with AdBlock Plus and some common sense use of the internet.

*Don't go to sites that host anything illegal.
*Don't go to pr0n sites.
*Don't use filesharing\torrent programs to obtain illegal software or media.
*Avoid the use of sites that try to "trick" you into downloading adware or clicking on ads. If a site pulls this garbage and it isn't something that AdBlock takes care of, I stop using the site.
*Keep an eye out for fake downloads and sites that say they have exactly what you want, even if they don't seem to know what it is. "3Dfx Voodoo 2 driver for Windows 10.exe"... that's exactly what I'm looking for! Thank you driverdownloadhelper.ru!!!
*When given download "mirror" options, choose the most reputable one. If you aren't 100% certain that the file and website are reputable, download it and do a context menu scan of the item with MBAM.

It's been 5 years since I've had a virus, and I KNEW I was doing something stupid when I got that. I was having trouble finding a file related to a very old game (can't even remember what it was, but it wasn't even a crack or anything illegal) so I searched for it on the last remaining p2p file sharing program on my computer and lo and behold, a bunch of results showed up. Only one had any hope of being downloadable, but... it seemed a bit small. It was like I knew it was a virus, but did it anyway. I double clicked the file, a little black command window popped up and then vanished, I said "you moron..." and I spent a few hours removing garbage from my PC.

Since then I've removed thousands of viruses from PCs for people, and a lot of times I attach their drives to my system's SATA dock to make the initial scans go faster. Still haven't had one on my own system since the one I directly put on here myself.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:26 pm

I dunno, with a case of Windows 10 perhaps formatting the drive would be most effective /S

I always liked Eset Nod32 for paid AV and malwarebytes is singularly awesome.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:23 am

ozzuneoj wrote:
"3Dfx Voodoo 2 driver for Windows 10.exe"... that's exactly what I'm looking for! Thank you driverdownloadhelper.ru!!!


LOL, that made my day.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:36 am

Avast was kept during all my Win 10 installs--6 to date. FWIW, I bought Avast Internet Security 2015 through a site I'd never used--bonanza--for a cost of about $3.33/year for a bit under three years--so far so good.Also use MBAM on some machines. Also use sandboxie for browser protection but each browser I use (Chrome, Firefox, Opera) does have some useful plugins that do add security--Bluhell Firewall for Firefox has been impressive.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:00 am

Antivirus software is pretty useless. I havent installed Windows 10 yet and im only going to test it on an unused laptop.

However, Windows 10s has hardware hypervisor based protections called Device Guard, so id definitely use that. Hardware based security is about the best you can get.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn986865(v=vs.85).aspx

Im not sure how much it covers other than kernel protections and im pretty sure it requires a relatively new Intel CPU. I plan to research it a lot more but it sounds really good from what ive read. It sounds like Bromium or Knox, which are some of the best and offer more than a false sense of security like MOST software based approaches.

I dont know if it has exploit mitigations like integrated EMET like features or not either. You might need additional exploit mitigations too since theyre more important than an antivirus.

You might want to read the other recent threads discussing malware but ill repeat myself again: the use adblock or noscript and common sense approach offers zero protection against browser vulnerabilities, which is how a lot of malware gets silently installed without clicking anything.

Just viewing the page is enough for an exploit and ad services and even sites themselves get compromised constantly so ANY website is a potential source of infection.

If you cant use Device Guard to secure your browser then use a multi layered approach. MBAE(which is multi layered itself) or EMET(MBAE is easier and probably better for most users) and a realtime malware protection like Malwarebytes Anti Malware with Windows Defender.

Properly configure Windows and firewall settings as well. Windows 10 is an advertizing platform more than an operating system so turning all those features off is probably a good idea as well.

All the stuff in that stupid picture people keep posting should go without saying and its not really helping anyone.

Obviously use updated software, use two factor authentication, and strong unique passwords. I wouldnt use a password manager though. Some of them have been demonstrated to be vulnerable.

Antivirus comparisons are also meaningless.
Last edited by Flying Fox on Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:05 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:06 am

ozzuneoj wrote:
*Don't go to pr0n sites.

...but even more importantly, don't go to religious sites!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403960,00.asp
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:01 am

Windows Defender seems to get lots of recommendations despite its relatively awful test results (which is nothing new to 2015), I'd call it serviceable if you combine it with safe practices (no porn, no bittorrent/usenet/etc). But otherwise, I've used BitDefender without issue for a couple years now, mostly just out of paranoia, and Kaspersky before that, both of which are top-notch in terms of detection.

Another reason to go with anything other than Windows default: by definition it's going to have a smaller target on its back, because it's not the default. Frankly I'm surprised everyone just seems to be ignoring real-world tests! We don't do that for CPUs or GPUs.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:38 am

w76 wrote:
Windows Defender seems to get lots of recommendations despite its relatively awful test results (which is nothing new to 2015), I'd call it serviceable if you combine it with safe practices (no porn, no bittorrent/usenet/etc). But otherwise, I've used BitDefender without issue for a couple years now, mostly just out of paranoia, and Kaspersky before that, both of which are top-notch in terms of detection.

Another reason to go with anything other than Windows default: by definition it's going to have a smaller target on its back, because it's not the default. Frankly I'm surprised everyone just seems to be ignoring real-world tests! We don't do that for CPUs or GPUs.


Bitdefender just got hacked and their users passwords which were stored UNENCRYPTED got stolen few days ago.

Those "real world" tests are useless because they arent real world at all and they SHOULD be ignored because theyre meaningless.

They test against KNOWN malware samples, which is pointless. Most antivirus software offers nothing but a false sense of security and some of the ones that do well in those meaningless antivirus comparisons are the worst.

Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender use ASLR for all files by default, making them harder to target as well. A lot of other antiviruses including Bitdefender and Kaspersky dont, meaning they can easily be targeted.

Bitdefender and Kaspersky have plenty of issues. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2459760/ ... -says.html
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:54 am

I am by no means a security expert but from what I understand is that ASLR is vastly superior to everything out there. There is a reason that OS X and other *nix distros use it.

For me I just dont want the added headache of some 3rd party Av software that may or may not cause issues down the road. Hence why I stick with Windows Defender. I bet most of you, if you seriously give it a try, will be happy with it.

I challenge you. Just try it. Image your PC and run just Defender for a few weeks or a month or two. Especially if you are running 64 bit Windows 10. I guarantee you'll be happy with it.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:57 am

BlackDove wrote:
Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender use ASLR for all files by default, making them harder to target as well. A lot of other antiviruses including Bitdefender and Kaspersky dont, meaning they can easily be targeted.

While ASLR is certainly a good idea, if your AV program is specifically being targeted in a way that ASLR would mitigate, then by definition the malware is already installed and executing on your system. In other words, your malware protection measures have already failed. So it is really more of a "Plan B" damage control measure (to prevent the AV from being completely disabled after the system has already been breached), rather than an effective front-line defense.

It is much more important to use ASLR for applications and services that may contain exploitable bugs and are expected to handle untrusted content.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:02 am

Windows Defender has a come a long way honestly. Those charts dont really do it justice. If you have safe browsing habits and an occasional malwarebytes scan, that should be plenty. If you are always doing sketchy things on the internet I would take an AV product on the chart. I've heard great things about Eset and Panda.

And also as a disclaimer you can still catch viruses and such even with good browsing behavior. It's just not all that common though.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:17 am

just brew it! wrote:
BlackDove wrote:
Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender use ASLR for all files by default, making them harder to target as well. A lot of other antiviruses including Bitdefender and Kaspersky dont, meaning they can easily be targeted.

While ASLR is certainly a good idea, if your AV program is specifically being targeted in a way that ASLR would mitigate, then by definition the malware is already installed and executing on your system. In other words, your malware protection measures have already failed. So it is really more of a "Plan B" damage control measure (to prevent the AV from being completely disabled after the system has already been breached), rather than an effective front-line defense.

It is much more important to use ASLR for applications and services that may contain exploitable bugs and are expected to handle untrusted content.


Which is why i said antivirus software is almost entirely useless unless it has HARDWARE root of trust(hypervisors like Bromium, Samsung Knox, Windows 10 Device Guard).

Is also why i say that exploit mitigations like MBAE or EMET are the most important thing to use.

The issue with the antiviruses listed is that theyre potentially the program which allows the malware in itself, since theyre highly privileged and internet facing. The malware couldnt get in if the antivirus wasnt there in the case im talking about.

Thats why you want an antivirus that uses mitigations on its own files, in addition to using exploit mitigations on all internet facing applications.

Antivirus and antimalware software is there to detect things that dont use an exploit to get in, like things you download.

Technoguy

Its extremely common. Websites get compromised all the time.
 
ludi
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:07 am

Neutronbeam wrote:
Avast was kept during all my Win 10 installs--6 to date.

Ah, so it was and has been. It briefly dropped out of visibility for some reason during my upgrade processes but it's back. Now I need to decide whether to keep it, migrate, or rely on Defender.
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:03 pm

The good old virus of old is half dead by this point, which is why I run a standard MS Essentials, but I do run EMET as well. Sadly, my current firewall has too little horsepower for me to able to use the IPS and application control / reputation filtering there, but I plan to remedy that in a few weeks.

Now, as for AV test, there is viruses, and there is malware(ransomware/cryptolocker/remotecontrol/banktrojans/etc, etc), some of the software doesn't claim to do everything, others do. But just the results as that is not that meaningful without actually looking at what are the testing, and if you want something like essentials, what does it cover, and what doesn't it cover.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:56 pm

I'm a fan of MSE+MBAM. Oldschool AVs mostly just chase ghosts because they still think it's 1995, but MSE is free and lightweight so I don't see any reason not to throw it in on top of an antimalware application.
 
localhostrulez
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:25 pm

My work uses SCEP (Microsoft System Center Endpoint Protection - bleh name), aka MSE Enterprise. Seems to work well enough, and it's a whole lot less annoying than the McAfee Enterprise suite we had before.
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:53 am

Why are we still touting safe browsing habits as being all that's needed. Legitimate websites get hacked every week, and still other legitimate sites occasionally get duped into serving malicious adverts or page scripts. The only way to truly avoid that risk is to unplug the cat5 cable.

localhostrulez wrote:
My work uses SCEP (Microsoft System Center Endpoint Protection - bleh name), aka MSE Enterprise. Seems to work well enough, and it's a whole lot less annoying than the McAfee Enterprise suite we had before.


Yes, Windows 7 users got to use it for free. It was known as Microsoft Security Essentials. It still uses the same exact interface and look, nothing has literally changed on SCEP except for the breadth of settings, and a supposedly more powerful engine.

Windows Defender may not have a perfect detection rating, but one thing you should also check in those tests is system resource management and false positives. Defender is the lightest AV of them all in resource/system footprint and on multiple AV test sites, and last I had checked it still had the lowest false positive rate of every other AV. It's free, zero nagging, and I combine it with a weekly MBAM scan and never had a problem.

Honestly, it's silly to tout near-perfect detection rates of a personal AV and at the same time tout uber safe browsing habits. If ya have uber safe browsing habits then why do you need the most-aggressive virus catching, system-hogging, user nagging AV too? :P
 
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:01 am

windows 10 is a virus LOL :lol:
 
w76
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Re: Windows 10 - Best antivirus?

Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:49 am

BlackDove wrote:
w76 wrote:
Windows Defender seems to get lots of recommendations despite its relatively awful test results (which is nothing new to 2015), I'd call it serviceable if you combine it with safe practices (no porn, no bittorrent/usenet/etc). But otherwise, I've used BitDefender without issue for a couple years now, mostly just out of paranoia, and Kaspersky before that, both of which are top-notch in terms of detection.

Another reason to go with anything other than Windows default: by definition it's going to have a smaller target on its back, because it's not the default. Frankly I'm surprised everyone just seems to be ignoring real-world tests! We don't do that for CPUs or GPUs.


Bitdefender just got hacked and their users passwords which were stored UNENCRYPTED got stolen few days ago.

Those "real world" tests are useless because they arent real world at all and they SHOULD be ignored because theyre meaningless.

They test against KNOWN malware samples, which is pointless. Most antivirus software offers nothing but a false sense of security and some of the ones that do well in those meaningless antivirus comparisons are the worst.

Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender use ASLR for all files by default, making them harder to target as well. A lot of other antiviruses including Bitdefender and Kaspersky dont, meaning they can easily be targeted.

Bitdefender and Kaspersky have plenty of issues. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2459760/ ... -says.html


Okay, so you don't like that test, however this isn't a social science like philosophy. If you don't like that tests referenced earlier, then what data upon which do you base your opinions? And lay off the hardware rant, that's outside the scope of the question at hand. Perhaps you have a test showing which AV program adapts to undiscovered viruses better? Panda would probably make the claim to that, something-something-cloud.

As for Bit Defender, they kick your dog or something? Everybody gets hacked, that's just unfortunate. I can't complain about it too much, since I used their service entirely for free.

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