Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:16 pm

NeXus 6 wrote:But many people have and can't find a fix, so what's your point?

Vista sucks.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:26 pm

I'd say NVIDIA's driver team sucks.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:36 pm

PRIME1 wrote:I am running a NVIDIA GPU with a NVIDIA chipset and I have yet to see this error.


Yet there are thousands of people that do.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=25381

They must all be making it up.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:47 pm

JonMCC33 wrote:
Yet there are thousands of people that do.

There are millions of people that think Vista sucks....
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:03 pm

Most of them most likely have never used it. They're bashing it based on what others have said or have been brainwashed by the Mac vs. PC ads. Millions of people thought XP sucked until they started to use it. Suddenly it wasn't such a bad OS.

There may be certain elements about Vista that people do not like, but overall it's a solid and stable OS.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:47 pm

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Vista, in terms of stability. It's at *least* as stable as the Windows XP variants, in my experience (although admittadly somewhat limited). There are some directly annoying things, like a lot of ambiguity, Superfetch, etc, but most of them can be custimized away.

But there is the one thing that you still can't customize away, because Microsoft won't let you -- Vista's extremely horrid visuals. The good old Luna style is heaven compared to that tacky ****. And like XP, you need to *hack* the damn thing -- the theme manager, the login, etc, etc -- if you want the freedom to change the look of those parts. Seriously Microsoft, in these day and age that just doesn't cut it...
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:58 pm

NeXus 6 wrote:Most of them most likely have never used it. They're bashing it based on what others have said or have been brainwashed by the Mac vs. PC ads.

Thank you Mojave Experiment. :roll:


Plenty of people have tried it and ran screaming back to XP.

Dell still offers XP for some reason.....must be those Mac ads.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:15 pm

PRIME1 wrote:Plenty of people have tried it and ran screaming back to XP.

I heard the same thing with XP and many went back to Win2k or Win98. Nothing new here. You can't please everybody.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:31 pm

Luddites. :roll:
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:29 pm

PRIME1 wrote:Plenty of people have tried it and ran screaming back to XP.

Dell still offers XP for some reason...must be those Mac ads.


Dell offers Linux too...doesn't mean they are selling like hot cakes. There are only 3-4 systems with Windows XP as an option at all. Not sure if you want to boast about that at all.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:56 pm

JonMCC33 wrote:
PRIME1 wrote:Plenty of people have tried it and ran screaming back to XP.

Dell still offers XP for some reason...must be those Mac ads.


Dell offers Linux too...doesn't mean they are selling like hot cakes. There are only 3-4 systems with Windows XP as an option at all. Not sure if you want to boast about that at all.

I get that you love love love Vista... I do. But, clearly this thread and the recent multi-million dollar ad campaign from MS show that it's not all that popular.

Many, many, many people are having many, many, many problems with Vista.

Dell would not offer XP anymore if Vista was not in such rough shape.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:59 am

JonMCC33 wrote:Dell offers Linux too...doesn't mean they are selling like hot cakes. There are only 3-4 systems with Windows XP as an option at all. Not sure if you want to boast about that at all.

Umm... dunno where you're getting that from. It looks like XP is still available on their entire business desktop line, except for the "Studio" models.

Many of them still even come with XP pre-loaded:
Dell wrote:When you buy a Dell PC system configured with the Windows Vista® BONUS, your PC will come loaded with Windows XP® Professional pre-installed. With the BONUS option, you can transition to Windows Vista when you’re ready.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:04 am

PRIME1 wrote:
NeXus 6 wrote:The "nvlddmkm stopped responding" error is still around and without a solid fix.

I am running a NVIDIA GPU with a NVIDIA chipset and I have yet to see this error.

I've seen it many times, but it's not nVidia's fault, OR Microsoft's.
I only see it when I overclock the card too high (or sometimes when it overheats, though that generally never happens with the current one). When I load the unstable card (with any recent game, but sometimes even WoW antialiased), it stops responding to driver commands, and that's where Vista resets the driver, instead of letting the system lock up á la XP. Every time I see this issue, I know I did it and I need to back off with my OC.

Why others see it, - I don't know. But I've never seen it occur "just because".
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:57 am

PRIME1 wrote:Many, many, many people are having many, many, many problems with Vista.
People have problems with everything. Seriously, these "ZOMG, VISTA SUCKS!" antics are getting pretty boring.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:16 am

lordtottuu wrote:People have problems with everything. Seriously, these "ZOMG, VISTA SUCKS!" antics are getting pretty boring.

That indeed is an option.

It may be possible to dismiss the [numerous] complaints from average consumers as simply the vocalizations of lemmings following the believed-to-be conspiracy 'herd' of anti-Vista / Microsoft whiners but when the industry pundits and technology reviewers, people usually perceived as being both more 'neutral' and having a self-interest in forwarding the latest and greatest, are flailing Vista against the wall you know the product has problems.

I think most people's complaints are based upon Vista's perceived performance (or, more precisely, the perceived lack thereof). Almost everyone acknowledges that a new OS will be more resource intensive than the prior version and accepts that. The general consensus with Vista, however, is even though a user will upgrade his machine to the next generation of hardware, or in some circumstances the upgrade is actually jumping 2 generations in hardware, the final result in performance is still perceived by the user as negative as compared to their prior old machine / old OS (XP) combination. It might be a false perception but I had that very result myself: my old 3.4gHz P4HT / 2GB DDR RAM / 80GB 5400RPM ATA / WinXP Pro machine seems like it runs rings around (my boss's) new 2.0gHz Turion X2 TL-60 / 3GB DDR2 RAM / 160GB 5400RPM SATA / Vista Home machine in pretty much every possible measure regarding response to user requests. Hard comparative benchmarks have not been made but my coworker, who has seen both computers, feels the same - the Vista machine's user experience is lethargic and sometimes simply "painful" in terms of delays and pleasure of use.

It is not that Vista does not work, it is simply that Vista does not work well enough for many people to feel the expense of both switching software and updating hardware (to meet the new requirements) outweighs any possible benefits the new OS might bring to the table. Apparently many people are doing a personal cost / benefit analysis prior to doing a Vista upgrade and this is where Vista is failing to gain new users. For some people the cost / benefit works in Vista's favor but a greater majority

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1132

again, including some of those industry pundits, think Vista's cost / benefit is off.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:49 am

Snake wrote: It might be a false perception but I had that very result myself: my old 3.4gHz P4HT / 2GB DDR RAM / 80GB 5400RPM ATA / WinXP Pro machine seems like it runs rings around (my boss's) new 2.0gHz Turion X2 TL-60 / 3GB DDR2 RAM / 160GB 5400RPM SATA / Vista Home machine in pretty much every possible measure regarding response to user requests. Hard comparative benchmarks have not been made but my coworker, who has seen both computers, feels the same - the Vista machine's user experience is lethargic and sometimes simply "painful" in terms of delays and pleasure of use.


Vista RTM was much slower at everything compared to XP. Since SP1 was released things have gotten much better though XP is still a little faster on "some" tasks.... On systems running 64-bit with a lot of ram Vista is generally faster than XP on comparable systems due to superfetch. That article was dated January 08... about a month before vista SP1 was released. XP had the same problem... XP RTM was horrible but SP1 fixed most issues. Same with win2k.... WIn NT.... OSX... the list goes on but things improved with patches and service packs.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:05 am

Snake wrote:...but when the industry pundits and technology reviewers, people usually perceived as being both more 'neutral' and having a self-interest in forwarding the latest and greatest, are flailing Vista against the wall you know the product has problems.

XP didn't exactly get rave reviews.

Vista got really bashed early on, but SP1 fixed some nagging issues, increased stability, and driver compatibility got a lot better. Most reviews I read on Vista basically came to the conclusion that it wasn't a significant upgrade over XP, so they gave it mediocre score. Those that called it "ME II" are idiots.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:30 am

NeXus 6 wrote:Those that called it "ME II" are idiots.

Not necessarily - you are looking at that saying only from a single perspective. While Vista may not be an "ME mk II" in terms of technology / functionability (it is far more stable than ME), some [of us] are using the "ME II" phrase are speaking in regards of Vista's general market acceptance / market success. ME by its midlife wasn't exactly universally "loved" by all and Vista seems to be leading down the same primrose path, and this is what is being referred to.

They are using the "ME II" designation metaphorically, not literally.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:46 pm

Another big thing about that is that Vista takes the first few days after installation to get used to your specific uses and indexing and stuff (hence the frequent HDD access in the beginning).

Reviewers typically make an impression in the first few days after installation, so they are likely still in that transition of the system optimizing.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:24 pm

just brew it! wrote:Umm... dunno where you're getting that from. It looks like XP is still available on their entire business desktop line, except for the "Studio" models.

Many of them still even come with XP pre-loaded:
Dell wrote:When you buy a Dell PC system configured with the Windows Vista® BONUS, your PC will come loaded with Windows XP® Professional pre-installed. With the BONUS option, you can transition to Windows Vista when you’re ready.


That's their business line. Their home line barely has anything with XP. I saw one system with that option when looking.

Also there's this: "Need XP? Windows XP Professional pre-installed when purchasing Windows Vista Business Bonus for only $99!"

1. They only really offer Windows XP Pro for business users due to corporation limitations, etc.
2. They charge extra for Windows XP Pro.
3. Most businesses are going to have volume licensing anyway.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:11 pm

Snake wrote:ME by its midlife wasn't exactly universally "loved" by all and Vista seems to be leading down the same primrose path, and this is what is being referred to. They are using the "ME II" designation metaphorically, not literally.

Vista has had a better adoption rate (better than XP according to this article) and is still selling, whereas ME kind fell off the radar within a year because it was hated by most people within the industry and by gamers/enthusiasts. ME never really caught on while Vista has.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:48 pm

JonMCC33 wrote:That's their business line. Their home line barely has anything with XP. I saw one system with that option when looking.

You didn't say anything about home vs. business in the post I was responding to. You made a blanket statement, implying that Dell only offered XP as an option on 3-4 of their systems.

I agree that it is not offered on most of their home systems.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:31 pm

Combine all of their systems together, toss in some servers too, and Windows XP isn't really an option. :wink:
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:38 pm

JonMCC33 wrote:Combine all of their systems together, toss in some servers too, and Windows XP isn't really an option. :wink:

The mere fact the one of the largest PC makers in the world is still installing XP even after MS "retired" it says a lot. At the very least it validates this thread.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:06 pm

PRIME1 wrote:
JonMCC33 wrote:Combine all of their systems together, toss in some servers too, and Windows XP isn't really an option. :wink:

The mere fact the one of the largest PC makers in the world is still installing XP even after MS "retired" it says a lot. At the very least it validates this thread.


Um, it's well known that it's still offered to businesses and this has been discussed 20 pages ago. Come up with something new.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:55 am

JonMCC33 wrote:Combine all of their systems together, toss in some servers too, and Windows XP isn't really an option. :wink:

That's beside the point. XP was never a real option for servers.

As I've already noted, what I was disagreeing with was your blanket statement that they only offer XP "on 3 or 4 systems".
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:17 am

just brew it! wrote:That's beside the point. XP was never a real option for servers.

As I've already noted, what I was disagreeing with was your blanket statement that they only offer XP "on 3 or 4 systems".


Windows XP can indeed function as a server. It has file sharing capability over a workgroup and built in IIS with FTP and HTTP. :wink:
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:02 pm

JonMCC33 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:That's beside the point. XP was never a real option for servers.

As I've already noted, what I was disagreeing with was your blanket statement that they only offer XP "on 3 or 4 systems".

Windows XP can indeed function as a server. It has file sharing capability over a workgroup and built in IIS with FTP and HTTP. :wink:

True. But would a major vendor like Dell (which is what this sub-thread is apparently about) ever market it as such? Nope.

You're talking in circles. Or maybe in epicycloids. :lol:
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:49 pm

When will this thread die?

Vista is most certainly not the ME 2.0 or disliked by the majority despite all of the FUD.

It is just a tiny, very vocal minority that attempts to keep the FUD alive. I know that change is annoying, but it is a fact of life.

The bottom line is that if *you* do not see any value in Vista then do not get it. Nobody is forcing you to buy a license and there are alternatives. Average Joe does not care, since he gets whatever comes with his OEM rig. Businesses have always had their priorities on software/hardware upgrades.
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Re: Vista sucks, despite all that is said around

Postposted on Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:26 pm

I'm just going to be rolling when people that are holding off Vista for Windows 7 and load up Windows 7 only to realize...holy crap, this is Windows Vista too!
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