Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:35 pm

That is pretty bad. I haven't used it a whole lot, but even as a Microsoft fan, I am pretty torn. I understand MS trying to start to unify a wide range of computing devices under one OS, but at this point it feels pretty immature. It's still way too early for mice/keyboards to die, and Metro is really unwieldy to learn on those devices.

I think Windows 8 is going to make a great mobile (tablets, maybe high end laptops with touch screens) OS, but I really can't see myself using it on a desktop. As a gamer and technician, I am way too reliant on multitasking, which Windows 8 seems to handle really poorly with its lack of windows, and the fact that all programs instantly want to go full screen with no easy way to prevent them from doing this.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:51 pm

EsotericLord wrote:It's still way too early for mice/keyboards to die, and Metro is really unwieldy to learn on those devices.

I think Windows 8 is going to make a great mobile (tablets, maybe high end laptops with touch screens) OS, but I really can't see myself using it on a desktop.

it's going to be funny to read all these complaints 10 years from now when mouse/keyboard input will be in the dying minority (kinda like how floppy drives phased out). Because sooner or later, mice... and keyboards... Will cease to exist. Not talking the immediate decades, maybe 20-50 years from now... Maybe sooner. But we can't be so dependent on old technologies.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:15 pm

It is also amazing how few people get the fish is a beta-fish. The only good thing about metro is the figure 8 bubble.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:21 pm

This represents kind of a big change in my thinking, but I believe we're getting to the point where intuitiveness doesn't matter nearly as much as learning to be efficient. The earlier we continue to start our kids with technology, the more learning goes on quickly and the better technology users they will become. Dad in this video will become harder and harder to find.

I do think gleek's suggestion that keyboard/mouse will be a thing of the past is incredibly shortsighted without suitable replacements with tangible benefits. Typing on a touch screen? Movements with a mouse? Painful. The current paradigm is unsurpassed for accuracy and speed right now.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:32 pm

thegleek wrote:
EsotericLord wrote:It's still way too early for mice/keyboards to die, and Metro is really unwieldy to learn on those devices.

I think Windows 8 is going to make a great mobile (tablets, maybe high end laptops with touch screens) OS, but I really can't see myself using it on a desktop.

it's going to be funny to read all these complaints 10 years from now when mouse/keyboard input will be in the dying minority (kinda like how floppy drives phased out). Because sooner or later, mice... and keyboards... Will cease to exist. Not talking the immediate decades, maybe 20-50 years from now... Maybe sooner. But we can't be so dependent on old technologies.

Too bad Win8 isn't coming out in 10 years.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:45 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:I do think gleek's suggestion that keyboard/mouse will be a thing of the past is incredibly shortsighted without suitable replacements with tangible benefits. Typing on a touch screen? Movements with a mouse? Painful. The current paradigm is unsurpassed for accuracy and speed right now.

Remember this back in 2002? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtt2Xe2y0FI

Yeah, we're not so far off today are we? Imagine what technology can do in another +10 years.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:49 pm

Until it hits commodity pricing, it's not going to be the norm. Until it's the norm, it's not going to supplant keyboard/mouse.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:49 pm

thegleek wrote:Because sooner or later, mice... and keyboards... Will cease to exist.

They will, but not until there will be a reliable substitute that allows people to do EVERYTHING they do now on PC (including playing ALL types of games, typing text, etc.) without relying on silly toys like touchscreen interfaces or physical gesture-based interfaces like Kinect, and such potential technologies as some kind of direct brain interface are still way, WAY too "immature" and really have nothing to do with what some retarded GUI designers at MS are trying to do NOW with PC versions of Win8.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:52 pm

thegleek wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:I do think gleek's suggestion that keyboard/mouse will be a thing of the past is incredibly shortsighted without suitable replacements with tangible benefits. Typing on a touch screen? Movements with a mouse? Painful. The current paradigm is unsurpassed for accuracy and speed right now.

Remember this back in 2002? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtt2Xe2y0FI

Yeah, we're not so far off today are we? Imagine what technology can do in another +10 years.

Gesture-based interfaces look "cool" in movies, but try jumping around your monitor and flail your hands at the same time at your home - how many hours you'll be able to physically tolerate it, especially if you're not the type of person who likes to physically excercise or potentially have some kind of physical disability that prevents you from doing that? And how much will all the required hardware cost, compared to a $10 mouse?
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:09 pm

IMO Ubuntu's Unity is a non-optimal desktop environment for similar reasons.

As far as keyboard and mouse going away... I could certainly imagine coming up with a better pointing device. But until we have practical direct neural implants, I don't think anyone is going to come up with a superior alternative to a traditional keyboard (preferably one with Cherry MX mechanical switches or buckling springs, thank you very much).
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:23 pm

I have a hell of a time picturing something like that being remotely ergonomical or efficient for text entry in a multiuser (read: noisy) environment.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:14 pm

As far as i'm concerned windows 8 is a flop. I could see portable devices getting alone fine with it, but i'm not interested in that.

So gg, no re MS.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:38 pm

I do think that 20 years from now people will go "You actually had to press a key for every letter? How pathetic." A combination of gesture/voice/neural interfaces is what I forsee.

As it has been said though, 20 years from now =/= this fall.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:52 pm

JohnC wrote:
thegleek wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:I do think gleek's suggestion that keyboard/mouse will be a thing of the past is incredibly shortsighted without suitable replacements with tangible benefits. Typing on a touch screen? Movements with a mouse? Painful. The current paradigm is unsurpassed for accuracy and speed right now.

Remember this back in 2002? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtt2Xe2y0FI

Yeah, we're not so far off today are we? Imagine what technology can do in another +10 years.

Gesture-based interfaces look "cool" in movies, but try jumping around your monitor and flail your hands at the same time at your home - how many hours you'll be able to physically tolerate it, especially if you're not the type of person who likes to physically excercise or potentially have some kind of physical disability that prevents you from doing that? And how much will all the required hardware cost, compared to a $10 mouse?



You stole my post ;-) Yeah, the Minority Report thing does *look* cool... although all the actors using the same type of interface in all the badly-done Sci-Fi that rips off Minority Report look like morons when they flail their arm around. However, looking cool and actually being practical and useful are two totally different things. Case in point: The "tiles" in the Metro interface on anything other than a tablet. I've tried the Windows 8 preview, and while I think MS did a fine job under the hood (it's extremely responsive even on my 4+ year old Core 2 duo) the UI is designed for teenage girls who send some texts and listen to some music in an inefficient manner. Try actually doing real multi-windowed multitasking work on it and you'll be wishing for Vista to come back :-P

I know that having an OS that does multitasking efficiently for actually getting work done isnt the "cool" thing for the iPad crowd, but believe it or not some people still do real work, and for that I wouldn't recommend Windows 8 without a massive overhaul that restores a real desktop and pushes the toy stuff off into a corner on non-tablet devices. To paraphrase Lonely Island: "My PC is not a phone... duh!"
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:54 pm

thegleek wrote:it's going to be funny to read all these complaints 10 years from now when mouse/keyboard input will be in the dying minority (kinda like how floppy drives phased out). Because sooner or later, mice... and keyboards... Will cease to exist. Not talking the immediate decades, maybe 20-50 years from now... Maybe sooner. But we can't be so dependent on old technologies.


I'm pretty sure touch based input is not going to be the main input method after 10 years. For one simple reason - IT SUCKS for anything larger than 4". You have to do a lot of movement, you cover the screen with hands, and you leave fugly fingerprints all around the screen. You must be super dumb to enjoy that.

Projected keyboards, neural interfaces, that's more believable. But leaving fingerprints on 3D Vision enabled 3x40" panoramic OLED screen, you got to be kidding me.

just brew it! wrote:IMO Ubuntu's Unity is a non-optimal desktop environment for similar reasons.

Unity sucks, unless the only thing you use it for, is to open full screen browser, and shut down the PC.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:55 pm

imo, windows 8 should have the classic desktop interface as its primary, with the metro tiles effectively replacing the gadgets from vista and 7. metro interface is amazing on smaller touch based devices like tablets and phones, but is inferior to the desktop interface on desktops and laptops. what metro DOES do really well, is on the secondary screens of multi-display setups. i can easily see my triple monitor setup with the classic desktop running on my main screen, and a few metro tiles on the second and third screens on either side. it's simple, intuitive, and can drastically increase my productivity.

and another thing: metro tiles should never open full screen on a desktop, unless the user wants it to. on the desktop, metro apps should open in their own resizeable/stackable windows.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:31 pm

It's all beginning to make sense. Remember a few years ago how there were stories of a few mac users in Redmond.
Secretly, Apple has been plotting to destroy Microsoft from the inside. They sent their employees to work for Microsoft and destroy from within.

See, the Windows 8 designers are mac users:
http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/was- ... -20120215/
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:16 am

Madman wrote:you cover the screen with hands, and you leave fugly fingerprints all around the screen. You must be super dumb to enjoy that.

But leaving fingerprints on 3D Vision enabled 3x40" panoramic OLED screen, you got to be kidding me.

Sounds like you have an OCD issue or something. Fingerprints are everywhere! Who cares?!
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:19 am

So the implication of this thread's title is that middle aged people can't use computers? I'm a dad (3 times over), and actually old enough to be a grand-dad (oldest daughter is in her mid-20s)! :lol:
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:50 am

thegleek wrote:
Madman wrote:you cover the screen with hands, and you leave fugly fingerprints all around the screen. You must be super dumb to enjoy that.

But leaving fingerprints on 3D Vision enabled 3x40" panoramic OLED screen, you got to be kidding me.

Sounds like you have an OCD issue or something. Fingerprints are everywhere! Who cares?!


Or, a second alternative, I'm not a pig? :lol:
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:46 pm

No mouse? No keyboard? Makes me think of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9kTVZiJ3Uc
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:14 pm

I've set my Win8 computer down in front of a couple of very... I don't want to call them computer illiterate, let's say non-techie people. They hated it. I mean watching them try to use it, without any help or instruction, was painful.

Millions of people will soon be buying Win8 PCs, taking them home, and trying to use them cold like that. It will not be pretty for Microsoft.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:57 pm

Perhaps the release of Win 8 will be the opening Linux needs to finally make serious inroads on the desktop...

Nahh, the Linux desktop communities will find a way to collectively blow the opportunity. It seems that when a Linux desktop finally reaches some semblance of maturity (GNOME 2, KDE 3) they decide to chuck everything and start over (GNOME 3, KDE 4, Unity). Great if you're a hacker who loves to code... not so great if you're an end user. :roll:

I'm willing to put up with the churn (to an extent)... but Joe Sixpack isn't.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:53 pm

Unity is bad and GNOME 3 is only usable with extensions. I can't understand why the developers of these projects want to make it a pain to move between windows. In both GNOME 3 and Unity using the mouse to switch between windows is a two step process most of the time (always in GNOME 3, triggered in Unity by having more than one window of an application open). One of my favorite obvious mistakes in Unity is the File Operations dialog window not showing in the window select screen. So if you want to view the progress of a file transfer you have to minimize windows till you reach the File Operations box.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:30 pm

I use Unity (12.04) every day. Unity rocks.

I use Windows 8 every day. Windows 8 does not rock.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:25 pm

I bought a SSD dedicated for my OS and thought I'd make Win8 my primary OS and give it a shot. Now first, let me say, I'm a huge fan of MS and have stuck with them through their Vista years, defending Vista. I own a Windows 7 Mobile phone and love Metro (on the phone).

But after 3 days, I was sick of Windows 8 and had to re-install Windows 7 for my own sanity. Metro was pointless on the PC. Simple things, like playing music became more complicated and required more mouse clicks. I get how the "Music" app showed a whole bunch of artists in the background, but when I'm listening to Charlie Parker (jass musician from the late 30's), seeing album covers of Black Eyed Peas (which I don't even own) in the background just seemed weird.

Without the start menu, chaos insued. Although I found most of what I was looking for, it took waaaaaay longer to find and at the end I couldn't remember how I found it.

My sister, who is "above average" for the general user, found it extremely frustrating and refused to go on my computer.

Two things I liked though were the ribbon interface on folders and how a dual screen set-up showed different backgrounds. Those were the only two positives I took out of Win8.

As a Microsoft fanboy, I hate to say it because they need this, but Windows 8 will be a flop.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:49 pm

End User wrote:I use Unity (12.04) every day. Unity rocks.

Is the 12.04 version significantly different from the 11.10 version? Because if it isn't, I'm having a pretty hard time getting my brain around the idea that it "rocks".

Sargent Duck wrote:As a Microsoft fanboy, I hate to say it because they need this, but Windows 8 will be a flop.

As a Linux fanboy, I'm appalled by the current state of Linux desktop environments. I guess we're both screwed! :lol:
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:15 am

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:I use Unity (12.04) every day. Unity rocks.

Is the 12.04 version significantly different from the 11.10 version? Because if it isn't, I'm having a pretty hard time getting my brain around the idea that it "rocks".

I wasn't a fan of Unity either. But it's been years now and love it. No qualms at all. good stuff.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:51 am

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:I use Unity (12.04) every day. Unity rocks.

Is the 12.04 version significantly different from the 11.10 version? Because if it isn't, I'm having a pretty hard time getting my brain around the idea that it "rocks".

Unity is a love it or hate it UI it seems. It really works for me. 12.04 has been fine tuned and the new HUD just came online:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/unit ... ntu-12-04/

I could never go back to the UI before Unity - it was too damn archaic.
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Re: Watching a dad use Win 8 Beta... ouch?

Postposted on Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:10 pm

End User wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:I use Unity (12.04) every day. Unity rocks.

Is the 12.04 version significantly different from the 11.10 version? Because if it isn't, I'm having a pretty hard time getting my brain around the idea that it "rocks".

Unity is a love it or hate it UI it seems. It really works for me. 12.04 has been fine tuned and the new HUD just came online:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/unit ... ntu-12-04/

I could never go back to the UI before Unity - it was too damn archaic.

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