help with Windows permissions

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help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:31 pm

Can anyone help me out?

I have a fully functional Windows 7 system consisting of 2 hard drives and multiple partitions. Not wanting to disturb my setup, I put in another hard drive where I could install Windows 8. However, since there were partitions on the other hard drives with files I wanted to still use under Windows 8, I kept those hard drives still in the system.

However, in the BIOS, I set the new hard drive as the first hard drive and the other drives as the second and third drives. So I go ahead and install Windows 8 to the new hard drive. Windows 7 and the files are still residing on the other hard drives.

Everything is all hunky dory. Playing with Windows 8 was fun and it was really nice to see some of the improvements. But I shut down and unplug the hard drive that has Windows 8. I change the BIOS settings so that the drive that has Windows 7 on it is the first drive. Then I boot the system and it blue screens. I reboot the system again, it goes through chkdsk and then proceeds to load windows 7 fine. I noticed that my wallpapers were not being applied. So I go to access the folder with my pics. And I'm locked out. It says I don't have the permissions to view the content. I click on Continue to give me the permissions but it fails. No matter what I do, I can't get access to my folder and subfolders of pics.

So I shut down and plug back in the drive with Windows 8 and reboot. I can see all the pictures of the folder. Everything seems fine. I go to permissions and the users that were in Windows 8 were fine. But there are listed users with question marks (which I assume are users from my Windows 7 installation). I try to change all the permissions of the pictures to being fully open with read and write permissions. I then get an error message about corruption and unreadable.

I just want all the pics to be fully available in both operating systems! I'm a total beginner at this permissions thing.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:06 am

The users with questions marks are indeed from the Win7 install, and the corruption is from editing Win7 permissions with Win8. Windows gives unique ID numbers to each user, and Win8 probably "fixed" them when you opened the folders.

If you want share the files between the two, you should get a second machine to install Win8 on, use a virtual machine, or setup a fat32 partition, since fat32 doesn't have any permissions. Windows versions don't play well with each other, and it's like putting two cats who don't know each other into a small room.

If Win8 did fix the permissions on your Win7 drive, you're probably stuck with Win8 unless you want to delete Win8 and reinstall Win7. You could try to fix the permissions by replicating permissions from a working Win7 installation, but chances are slim that everything will be correct and it will run as smoothly as it once did.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:00 am

Just attach the User group to the folders in question (with read & execute or modify).

No need to do anything more drastic than that.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:25 am

Flatland_Spider wrote:If you want share the files between the two, you should get a second machine to install Win8 on, use a virtual machine, or setup a fat32 partition, since fat32 doesn't have any permissions. Windows versions don't play well with each other, and it's like putting two cats who don't know each other into a small room.


yeah, I was hoping I could get away with it because I didn't want to have to go through all that work and learn how to do a virtual machine.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:26 am

Ryu Connor wrote:Just attach the User group to the folders in question (with read & execute or modify).

No need to do anything more drastic than that.


this sound great! is there any link you could provide so I could read how to do this stuff? I tried to change the permissions manually back in windows 8 and it was really confusing and I think I was doing more damage than good. or maybe you some short instructions. thank you! :D
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:28 pm

I'm just going to throw in here that setting up a virtual machine is easier than doing what you've done - download and install something like VMware Player, and away you go.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:02 pm

onlysublime wrote:yeah, I was hoping I could get away with it because I didn't want to have to go through all that work and learn how to do a virtual machine.


If you can dual boot Windows, you can setup a virtual machine. The software is pretty simple now. The hardest part is installing the OS you want to play with.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:26 pm

As long as you are an administrator on the Windows 7 machine you should be able to take ownership of the files and manually reassign permissions. Follow this technet article for taking ownsership:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 53659.aspx

To reassign permissions follow this technet article:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 54344.aspx

The easiest way to do it is to assign whatever user needs access to the files Full Control. Windows will then push those permissions down to any sub folders within the folder you are changing permissions on. The only thing to note is it is not a good idea to go to C: and assign yourself full control of every file on the system. This could cause some serious security risks if you get infected with a virus. As long as you are doing it within your user data it's generally no big deal
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:28 am

LaChupacabra wrote:As long as you are an administrator on the Windows 7 machine you should be able to take ownership of the files and manually reassign permissions. Follow this technet article for taking ownsership:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 53659.aspx

To reassign permissions follow this technet article:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 54344.aspx

The easiest way to do it is to assign whatever user needs access to the files Full Control. Windows will then push those permissions down to any sub folders within the folder you are changing permissions on. The only thing to note is it is not a good idea to go to C: and assign yourself full control of every file on the system. This could cause some serious security risks if you get infected with a virus. As long as you are doing it within your user data it's generally no big deal


Thank you for the help! very much appreciated. I definitely bookmarked those links for future reference!!!

I followed the first link first. With Windows 7 booted up (the hard drive with Windows 8 is disconnected), I changed the owner to me and propagated it to all the subfolders and files. Now I can see the pictures again!

I didn't have to follow the second link.

Now what I'm curious about is can I assign multiple owners to these folders? And if so, can I create a group with the below accounts and just manage 1 group or do I have to do the accounts separately?

Right now, under the group or user names in Windows 7, I see this:

Account Unknown(S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1005)
Account Unknown(S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1001)
Account Unknown(S-1-5-21-4045546006-3514821989-1145501853-1006)
Patrick (PhenomII940-PC\Patrick) <- this one is me as the admin in Windows 7
uuid:10000000-0000-0000-0200-002248C238FA (PhenomII940-PC\Mcx1-PHENOMII940-PC)

I have no clue on what those other accounts are. I don't know which is Windows 8. Under Windows 8, I only created 1 user so I'm not sure why I would see 3 account unknown. And when I view users under Windows 8, I see multiple account unknowns (forgot if they're the same as above because right now I'm in Windows 7).
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:33 am

Flatland_Spider wrote:
onlysublime wrote:yeah, I was hoping I could get away with it because I didn't want to have to go through all that work and learn how to do a virtual machine.


If you can dual boot Windows, you can setup a virtual machine. The software is pretty simple now. The hardest part is installing the OS you want to play with.


dual booting Windows was kind of a nightmare for me way back when. I'd configure my system perfectly for both Windows in a dual boot scenario. But then if I need to blow out one of the Windows configurations, it somehow ended up messing up both setups. I ended up not wanting to touch my system or delete anything out of fear of messing up the other configuration.

that's why I tried to do it this way (yes, i'm a knucklehead). so that I wouldn't have a "permanent" dual boot scenario where I couldn't get out back to a single boot scenario.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:12 am

onlysublime wrote:Now what I'm curious about is can I assign multiple owners to these folders? And if so, can I create a group with the below accounts and just manage 1 group or do I have to do the accounts separately?

Right now, under the group or user names in Windows 7, I see this:

Account Unknown(S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1005)
Account Unknown(S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1001)
Account Unknown(S-1-5-21-4045546006-3514821989-1145501853-1006)
Patrick (PhenomII940-PC\Patrick) <- this one is me as the admin in Windows 7
uuid:10000000-0000-0000-0200-002248C238FA (PhenomII940-PC\Mcx1-PHENOMII940-PC)

I have no clue on what those other accounts are. I don't know which is Windows 8. Under Windows 8, I only created 1 user so I'm not sure why I would see 3 account unknown. And when I view users under Windows 8, I see multiple account unknowns (forgot if they're the same as above because right now I'm in Windows 7).


There can only be one owner on any object. You can assign multiple accounts Full Control though.

Yes, you could create a group, and then just manage the permissions on that group. That's how users are managed in Windows domains, so if you log into Windows for a job or school, you're hitting a security group at some point.

The Account Unknown accounts are probably from Win8 where it "fixed" your permissions. I'd guess they are Win8 SYSTEM, Win8 Administrator, and your Win8 user, or Authenticated Users depending on where the file is. If you want to know what they are you can look up the SID in Win8 to find out. (SID Resolver: http://wingeek.com/software/sidresolver/) There is a lot of stuff going on in the background with Windows, which is why you don't delete permissions you didn't add.

Is that all of the permissions on the files? There should be a couple of more that are recognized.

onlysublime wrote:dual booting Windows was kind of a nightmare for me way back when. I'd configure my system perfectly for both Windows in a dual boot scenario. But then if I need to blow out one of the Windows configurations, it somehow ended up messing up both setups. I ended up not wanting to touch my system or delete anything out of fear of messing up the other configuration.


VMs are much simpler then that. :) Install the software, spec the VM, install OS.

I've never really dual booted Windows versions. It used to be Windows and something else that was a lot for accommodating, but the last time I did that was a long time ago.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:59 pm

I went back to see the accounts/names under the folder. In addition to the 5 aforementioned ones, there are 2 others:
ZuneNetworkSvc
WMPNetworkSvc

Now, for creating a group in Windows 7, I would type in S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1005 as a user? and then follow up by copying the others into the group as well? And would this mean when I'm in Windows 8, everything is fine?

And once you guys help me learn more about users, permissions, etc... My next question is, what do I have to do to set up a virtual machine? Do I have to change any BIOS settings, do any strange partitions, etc.? I remember some virtualization options being disabled in the BIOS. Are the virtualization options for the virtual machine setup? And is the speed/performance of a virtual machine the same as a regular installation? I just didn't want to open a can of worms in learning how to do a virtual machine setup. People with years of experience are always saying it's so easy. But then you try it and something goes wrong and they say, oh, you forgot to allocate enough memory. or oh, you need to partition this. or oh, you need to set these settings in the BIOS etc. etc.

I think I tried VirtualBox awhile ago. And it was kind of a nightmare. I couldn't get a lot of drivers to work. Lots of my games wouldn't work. etc.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:47 pm

The only BIOS setting you need to worry about is usually labeled "Virtualization Support". Make sure it's enabled and you're good to go.

For non-corporate OS testing, VMware Player should be fine for you. It's less functional but more straight-forward than VirtualBox, especially if all you're doing is testing out Windows 8. All it requires is that you have an ISO available to point to for an install source; the Windows 8 trial can be downloaded for free from Microsoft's website. I'd really suggest you just give is a shot and go for it, it's really a pretty trivial process. Google has plenty of information as well.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:56 pm

onlysublime wrote:I think I tried VirtualBox awhile ago. And it was kind of a nightmare. I couldn't get a lot of drivers to work. Lots of my games wouldn't work. etc.

It's not really meant for running games. While VirtualBox does provide DirectX and OpenGL capability, it is incomplete and less efficient than running directly on the GPU. Drivers for the GPU (and other hardware) installed in your PC won't work because the VM only "sees" the virtual system that is being emulated by VirtualBox (not the real hardware). The only drivers you should be installing inside the VM are the ones in the VirtualBox "Guest Additions" package.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:18 am

onlysublime wrote:I went back to see the accounts/names under the folder. In addition to the 5 aforementioned ones, there are 2 others:
ZuneNetworkSvc
WMPNetworkSvc

Now, for creating a group in Windows 7, I would type in S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1005 as a user? and then follow up by copying the others into the group as well? And would this mean when I'm in Windows 8, everything is fine?

And once you guys help me learn more about users, permissions, etc... My next question is, what do I have to do to set up a virtual machine? Do I have to change any BIOS settings, do any strange partitions, etc.? I remember some virtualization options being disabled in the BIOS. Are the virtualization options for the virtual machine setup? And is the speed/performance of a virtual machine the same as a regular installation? I just didn't want to open a can of worms in learning how to do a virtual machine setup. People with years of experience are always saying it's so easy. But then you try it and something goes wrong and they say, oh, you forgot to allocate enough memory. or oh, you need to partition this. or oh, you need to set these settings in the BIOS etc. etc.

I think I tried VirtualBox awhile ago. And it was kind of a nightmare. I couldn't get a lot of drivers to work. Lots of my games wouldn't work. etc.


Looking at a folder in rather untouched Windows 7 install shows Authenticated Users, SYSTEM, Administrators (Machine\Administrators), and Users (Machine\Users) as the default permissions for folders, so I think you're still missing some rather critical permissions.

S-1-5-21-2308882977-1377969599-1500683864-1005 is the system identification (SID) number of whatever user that is, and that is going to be unique to the system. You can create a user with that name, but it's going to be a different user because Windows picks the SIDs not the user.

For instance, if you create two users named Fred on two different machines, or Windows operating systems in your case, what you wind up with is machine1\Fred and machine2\Fred which are similar in name only. The SIDs of the two Freds are unique to system they were created on, and the idea is to keep collisions down in a domain environment. There might be a way to force the SID, but that's not stuff you want to be messing with.

The easiest way to share a partition between the two is to format the partition as fat32 or exfat since fat doesn't support permissions. The two Windows installs are going to keep fighting over the permissions if you try share an NTFS partition between the two.

Virtual machines are close to native speed now with the accelerators built into modern processors, and provisioning a VM is just like building a normal machine. Explaining how to setup a VM is much easier then explaining Windows permissions.
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Re: help with Windows permissions

Postposted on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:13 am

Thanks for all the info, guys! It was really helpful learning how permissions work.

I went back and started looking at various folders throughout my drives. I think putting a Windows 8 drive in a Windows 7 system was, yeah, definitely not the smartest thing. All the folders I looked at now have weird users on them with question marks (which I assume were from Windows 8). I can still fully access those folders (maybe because I never used them in Windows 8?).

I looked for the permissions that flatland was listing and I can't find them. Is there a way to restore them? I can open and edit the files so I guess it's not a big deal.

As for virtual machines, any links to handy guides for setting up a virtual machine for a beginner? and what's the most compatible? basically what I want to know is how all my devices and software work in a Windows 8 environment. with a new hard drive, it was easy. install, with all the drivers. I'm confused on what works in a virtual machine. like all my multimedia equipment. my controllers. etc.
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