Software UI Learning Curves

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Software UI Learning Curves

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:09 pm

UI changes in Product X are hard!


Try to really use it first with an open mind instead of always carrying a bias?

Ignoring the last point, this may help:
http://gizmodo.com/5955139/windows-8-su ... orkarounds

I wonder whose advice it was. :P
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:24 pm

Flying Fox wrote:Try to really use it first with an open mind instead of always carrying a bias?


Bias, what bias? I don't like it after two weeks of trying to work with it and suddenly I am biased because of this? I like things simple and easy to use and that does not describe Windows 8 at all.

I ask for help and advice and I get implications that I am prejudiced in some way. Seriously, if my not like a piece of software is biased to you, you have larger issues to deal with.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:33 pm

Khali wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:Try to really use it first with an open mind instead of always carrying a bias?


Bias, what bias? I don't like it after two weeks of trying to work with it and suddenly I am biased because of this? I like things simple and easy to use and that does not describe Windows 8 at all.

I ask for help and advice and I get implications that I am prejudiced in some way. Seriously, if my not like a piece of software is biased to you, you have larger issues to deal with.

Most knocks against the new Windows are based on people coming from 7/XP, and they are mostly basing on how they previously do things. What exactly did you not like about the new system? Are you a totally new computer user? The problem we all have is that most of us have prior experience using other systems, so we are all biased in some way.

I too come from Windows 7 and there are things I don't like in 8 compared to the old ways of doing things (that's the bias). Did you find out new ways of doing things and try to embrace them? The survival guide I linked describes some new (and old) shortcuts, etc. that can help. Did you read up on those and really try using the new system?
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:51 pm

I already have Classicshell and that helped a bit. I have also disabled the Metro screen so that I boot directly to my desktop.

My biggest complaint is I have to really dig into the internals of Windows 8 to find anything. Basically things are not where I would think to look for them after years of using XP and about a years time of using 7. For most users, consistency is the key to usability. Microsoft has been anything but consistent in its last three OS offerings.

I never had a problem using XP and kept it going for a long while because Vista was a disaster and I refused to use it after having several issues on a laptop because of it. A lot of people disliked XP for some reason but it did what I wanted it to with out a hassle.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:57 pm

Issues of "bias" aside, I don't like paying MS every few years for the privilege of a forced "re-education" about their latest concept of what a desktop OS (or office suite, for that matter...) user interface should look like. If I want to deal with the frustration that comes from periodic user interface churn, I can get it for free on Linux!
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:05 pm

Firestarter wrote:You probably don't have to download everything again if you didn't delete the installers, as most drivers and stuff have 1 package for Windows 7 and 8.
We will just have to hope the OP did not just "run" those downloads, thus leaving the installer files sitting in the temp folders which may get deleted randomly.

Firestarter wrote:Do be warned though that although Windows 8 has caught a lot of flak for it's UI choices, Windows 7 is not really that much different (save for Metro, obviously). In fact, the biggest difference by far was between XP and Vista, and I imagine that a lot of UI issues that you have are from features that have been introduced in Vista.
I missed that part. Coming from XP then there are 3 iterations of UI changes so the jump will be difficult.

Firestarter wrote:If you do decide to downgrade to Windows 7, make sure you get a version that actually supports 32GB. You need to get Windows 7 Ultimate, Enterprise or Professional, as Home Premium only supports 16GB.
Very good point. Do be careful with this.

Khali wrote:My biggest complaint is I have to really dig into the internals of Windows 8 to find anything. Basically things are not where I would think to look for them after years of using XP and about a years time of using 7. For most users, consistency is the key to usability. Microsoft has been anything but consistent in its last three OS offerings.
From XP it is going to be a big jump, especially if you kept the Windows 95/2000 style "classic" start menu. I chose to embrace the XP's new start menu so I did not fall too far behind. I actually found it better. May I ask what this "anything" is that you cannot find? Other than trying to see if we can help you survive Windows 8 better. If it gets to the point of being palatable, then not downgrading may be an option.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:18 pm

just brew it! wrote:Issues of "bias" aside, I don't like paying MS every few years for the privilege of a forced "re-education" about their latest concept of what a desktop OS (or office suite, for that matter...) user interface should look like. If I want to deal with the frustration that comes from periodic user interface churn, I can get it for free on Linux!


A free luddite versus a paid luddite is still a luddite.

Humans don't like change, but the IT industry is defined by change. Quite the conundrum.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Khali wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:Try to really use it first with an open mind instead of always carrying a bias?


Bias, what bias? I don't like it after two weeks of trying to work with it and suddenly I am biased because of this? I like things simple and easy to use and that does not describe Windows 8 at all.

I ask for help and advice and I get implications that I am prejudiced in some way. Seriously, if my not like a piece of software is biased to you, you have larger issues to deal with.

Most knocks against the new Windows are based on people coming from 7/XP, and they are mostly basing on how they previously do things. What exactly did you not like about the new system? Are you a totally new computer user? The problem we all have is that most of us have prior experience using other systems, so we are all biased in some way.


Sure, we all have preferences and we all get used to various things. But here's the thing... a lot of us who don't like Windows 8 for it's interface aren't bitching because it's new and different, we're bitching because we don't feel like the changes are an improvement. I have no problem using various forms of Linux, or using a Mac, for example - because even though those interfaces are different than what I'm used to, they work. There is a method to their madness.

I don't get that from Windows 8 - I just don't. Maybe you do, and if so, great. I'm happy for you. But after quite a few months, I still feel the same way about Windows 8 as I did when I started on it - it just doesn't feel all that well thought out to me. It just doesn't work in a way that feels right. It feels clunky and forced. It feels like someone took a touch-based interface and, almost as an afterthought, decided to make it work with a keyboard and mouse.

I too come from Windows 7 and there are things I don't like in 8 compared to the old ways of doing things (that's the bias). Did you find out new ways of doing things and try to embrace them? The survival guide I linked describes some new (and old) shortcuts, etc. that can help. Did you read up on those and really try using the new system?


It's not about specific things - it's the overall way the interface works. Again, I can only speak for myself, but I've always managed to embrace new interfaces. For example, I'm not a Mac person but when I've had to use a Mac, it doesn't bother me that it's different. I occasionally get annoyed if I can't find something, but generally once I do find it I can at least see why it was where it was.

I don't get that with Windows 8, at least not so far. There doesn't seem to be that overall "sense" behind where things are the way there is with a Mac OS for example. And even once I've found things, I often find myself frustrated at how many extra clicks or movements are needed to actually do them.

I've looked at the various guides and whatnot that are available... but here's the thing: You shouldn't need a cheat sheet for an operating system.

What they were going for was an interface that worked whether you were using a touch device or a keyboard and mouse. What they ended up with was a touch interface that just happens to allow for a keyboard and mouse.

There are things I like about Windows 8. It's faster. It seems more stable and secure. Installing devices so far has been pretty seamless - the only exception being an HP printer that was frankly a pain in the ass on every version of Windows and which will soon be on the curb. I love the new Task Manager. I love the built in print manager.

But the interface, in my opinion, is crud. And unfortunately, the interface is the bulk of the experience.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:04 pm

cphite wrote:I've looked at the various guides and whatnot that are available... but here's the thing: You shouldn't need a cheat sheet for an operating system.


Nonsense. All forms of software have been coming with cheat sheets for decades. Even the vaunted user friendly platforms like iOS or Android require someone to go out and Google an answer sooner or later.

If you're going to make this complaint about 8 it would be better to say that Windows 8 didn't come with one out of the box. It should have been pinned to the start screen and desktop.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:37 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:Humans don't like change, but the IT industry is defined by change. Quite the conundrum.


So true!

I would embrace change more readily if these were evolutionary changes - survival of the fittest. If the change/feature is worthless or hated by a majority, it get's ousted.

I find every new Microsoft product I encounter to be a mixed bag; For every improvement they make, there is an equal disadvantage in the form of either bloat, loss of functionality, or some other screw up (the sort of thing that even the most devoted and loyal microsoft zealots don't approve of). After months or even years of begrudging resistance, most people eventually learn to tolerate the new way which seems to be about the time that Microsoft do an about-turn, abandon said feature/method and either replace it or drop it for some other conundrum.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:43 pm

aaaaand yet another Windows 8-related thread has disintegrated into

1) I hate Windows 8, and
2) You people who don't like Win8 are idiots.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:15 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:Even the vaunted user friendly platforms like iOS or Android require someone to go out and Google an answer sooner or later.

Funny you should say that! Just last week I had to touch an iMac, and I haven't done ANYTHING with any kind of Apple PC in pretty much all my life. All I had to do was install a program, and truth be told it was pretty straight forward. However, to make it work properly, I had to enable one simple option in some sort of system configuration. Truly stumped, I decided to google the issue, and 'lo behold: A goddamn video pops up as the first result on how to do it. Now, I am not saying that this is by any means something that won't ever happen on the Windows platform. I reckon it's actually pretty common. But still I felt like I was some sort of half-wit that needed handholding to click 2 damn buttons after watching that video. I guess that's what I get for googling the name of the simplest, dumbest checkbox that one can enable. This, my dear readers, concludes the tale of Firestarter and his first feeble steps into the land of OS X, thank you for reading!
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Re: Software UI Learning Curves

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:27 pm

There are many design decisions that make absolutely zero sense that are in Win8, could be fixed in minutes by a dev, and would render the system completely acceptable to most users.
-required startup in metro UI
-shutdown location
-remapped shortcuts
-Calling anything a "charms bar"
-Gestures on a KB+M setup

MS lost a sale from me simple because of the that first point, and I know I'm not alone in that. Yes, I would have still complained about the other stuff, but I would bought the damn thing. Instead, they get no money from me AND have one more person "hating" on it.

The backlash against Win8 is what should have happened. PC's are about choice, and Win8 is about removing at least one of those choices, in my opinion.
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Split: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:45 pm

Khali wrote:After two weeks of fighting with 8 I have come to the conclusion I hate it. Is it possible to replace windows 8 with windows 7 without having to wipe the drive and start all over?

What are your issues with 8?

You can get your Start menu back and boot directly to the desktop.
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Re: Software UI Learning Curves

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Might I say that until WinRT games really take off it really doesn't matter for most people.

Windows 7 is a fantastic OS. Those who want to stick with it are welcome to. Those who are coming from XP will have to suck it up, because there is a much larger disconnect between XP and 8 than 7 and 8...and once XP support ends very few developers are going to want to stick with it.

The backlash against Windows 8 is very similar to the backlash against Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 2000, and everything else over the years. It's just white noise until a few years have passed.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:17 pm

bthylafh wrote:aaaaand yet another Windows 8-related thread has disintegrated into

1) I hate Windows 8, and
2) You people who don't like Win8 are idiots.

Well... to be fair, the thread this got split out from started with #1 as its initial premise, so it was essentially a set-up for #2 right out of the gate. It didn't need to "disintegrate" very far! :lol:
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Re: Software UI Learning Curves

Postposted on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:50 pm

:sigh:

Yes, but falling into the same goddamn flamewar as all the other Win8 threads doesn't help the original thread's OP fix his problem.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:06 am

Chrispy_ wrote:I find every new Microsoft product I encounter to be a mixed bag; For every improvement they make, there is an equal disadvantage in the form of either bloat, loss of functionality, or some other screw up (the sort of thing that even the most devoted and loyal microsoft zealots don't approve of). After months or even years of begrudging resistance, most people eventually learn to tolerate the new way which seems to be about the time that Microsoft do an about-turn, abandon said feature/method and either replace it or drop it for some other conundrum.


IT courses that teach the tasks and processes behind change management and patch management focus on this reality. As it is true of all software.

Every new update to any software will result in old bugs being squashed, new bugs being created, features being added, features being removed, and some features having their workflow changed.

Some will love it, some will hate it, but there's no going back (or at least not forever).

It is the responsibility of IT to remind their end users that these irritations are the way of things. That's not to say they'll like it, nor is it to say you're supposed to make them like it (albeit if you have the silver tongue to do that, by all means), but it something they should be reminded of before you pull the carpet out from under them with the change.
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Re: OS help

Postposted on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:19 am

Ryu Connor wrote:It is the responsibility of IT to remind their end users that these irritations are the way of things. That's not to say they'll like it, nor is it to say you're supposed to make them like it (albeit if you have the silver tongue to do that, by all means), but it something they should be reminded of before you pull the carpet out from under them with the change.

You clearly do not work in my little slice-of-hell State agency.

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Re: Software UI Learning Curves

Postposted on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:38 am

Unfortunately the way things are supposed to be done is often disconnected from the way it is done.

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