I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

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I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:00 am

Hello.

I have Windows 8 Pro 64 bit. I am thinking of setting up a test guest of Windows 8 Pro 64 to run under itself via Hyper V. Depending on what I might be doing at any time, I suppose I could end up driving the guest close to the edge of the cliff, so just in case, I need to be able to snap back to a stored image without driving my host off the side of a mountain. :D

Additionally (eventually?) I might want to try this with a variety of Linux too.

But Windows first, because it's actually got a lower annoyance factor for me. What is the correct way to get this done properly licensed?

I already have a Windows 8 Pro 64 bit System Builder DVD and don't need a second DVD. Is there a way for me to purchase only the key, either from Microsoft or from a reseller such as Newegg or Amazon, or do I need to buy another System Builder DVD with key?
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:37 am

Strictly speaking, to be 100% legal and licensed you'd probably have to buy a retail Windows license. Assuming that Microsoft haven't changed the rules, System Builder disks are supposed to be sold with PCs, hard drives or motherboards. You could buy it with a HDD I suppose but whether Microsoft would allow you to install that HDD in your PC then run the license in a VM is a different question and I suspect the answer would be 'no'.

It's a pain in the arse that Microsoft don't sell Enterprise licenses to the general public, you get the right to run a virtual instance of Windows as well as the host with those :(
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:57 am

Hi and thanks.

To the best of my knowledge, the System Builder disk is not intended to be sold "with hardware". System Builder licenses (aka, not "upgrades") are full install and come with no hardware purchase requirement. If that were the case, Amazon (part of Microsoft's official channel) would have made it a requirement to buy hardware, and when I bought my first one, there was no such requirement.

Just to reframe my question:

I am not looking for a way to skirt the rules here. I want to buy the correct license to run Windows 8 pro 64 bit within Hyper-V on my Windows 8 Pro 64 bit workstation. If necessary, I'll buy another system builder DVD at Amazon's current price. But I don't need media, and I would rather avoid paying for and waiting for a physical deliverable if possible.

What is the best way to make this happen?


Edit: Also...I cannot believe that nobody has had to do this yet. Surely another forum member has already had to set up a Hyper V guest in this manner, yes?
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:13 pm

BIF wrote:Surely another forum member has already had to set up a Hyper V guest in this manner, yes?


Just evals for me, I don't do anything in VMs that needs to stick around for more than a few weeks.

Enterprise licenses are a fair bit more expensive than the consumer licenses, no?

The system builder disk is the best way I know, but perhaps someone else knows better.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:04 pm

I think to be 100% legit (and avoid activation hassles) you would need two independent Win8 licenses to do this.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

I think what you're asking is - can you legitimately buy *just* a license key, without bothering to buy a physical copy of windows.

If that's the case, I can only speak from my research into the same issue with Windows 7, which eventually yielded the conclusion that any website *claiming* to sell license keys for Windows, without selling the media itself, is a scam.
Microsoft require, at least with Windows 7 Home/Pro/Ultimate editions, that a key only ever be sold printed on a certificate of authenticity, with the associated physical media. That goes for retail and OEM system builder editions.

Anyone selling a Win 7 key for direct online distribution, is either a straight scam, or at least breaking Microsoft licensing agreements, and that license could be branded invalid.
- typically they're scams, because if any website is selling keys for online distribution, Microsoft wouldn't supply them with licenses to sell, so especially considering these sites tend to claim cheaper prices than the physical editions, they would either have to be reselling full price licenses at a loss, or be running a scam.


Anyway, I'm assuming it's the same for Windows 8.

I don't think it's the case with Windows Server editions... I think you can actually buy licenses for those directly from Microsoft without needing to be sent physical media.

I'm not sure in either case :-P
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:00 pm

I never saw a physical license code /or/ medium when I took advantage of Microsoft's offer of $30 for a Win7 license. For that I was given a download link via Digital River and the license code in an email.

None of this answers whether OP has to buy a full retail license... I suspect that's what MS expects him to do, however, given the ephemeral nature of virtual machines, and I'd be astounded if he can't buy such a license over the Internet as I did.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:07 pm

I don't think he needs full retail, but I do believe he needs a 2nd license. System builder license should be OK (I think).
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:10 pm

Link

Microsoft wrote:PERSONAL USE LICENSE (SYSTEM BUILDER) FOR WINDOWS 8 PRO

We do not sell our software or your copy of it – we only license it. Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) as the operating system on a computer that you build for your personal use, or as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine or a separate partition,[...]


The OEM and Retail Upgrade license are only intended for physical use, not virtual. There is an exception for upgrade if you have VM capable license of Windows 7.

I'd note this only applies to basic consumers. Businesses that leverage a Volume License agreement must purchase a Software Assurance plan for Microsoft VMs to be compliant.

Finding just keys for sale is highly unlikely, unless Microsoft offers the System Builder license in their own store.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:16 pm

bthylafh wrote:I never saw a physical license code /or/ medium when I took advantage of Microsoft's offer of $30 for a Win7 license. For that I was given a download link via Digital River and the license code in an email.

None of this answers whether OP has to buy a full retail license... I suspect that's what MS expects him to do, however, given the ephemeral nature of virtual machines, and I'd be astounded if he can't buy such a license over the Internet as I did.


Huh, when was that offer? If I knew about something like that, I'd take the opportunity to stock up at least a spare 4-5 licenses :-P (Assuming you mean home-premium or higher)
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:14 pm

4Q 2009, IIRC, and you had to have a .edu email address to qualify. It was meant for students but they didn't authenticate beyond sending an email so we staff were able to use it as well.

They offered Home Premium by default but you could get Professional for the same price, which was meant for those .edus who use AD authentication on student machines, which we don't.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:52 pm

Based on what Ryu has posted, I think I must order a second System Builder DVD.

But then following phrases refer to something called "OEM". As I understand it, System Builder is not the same as OEM. But the language is not clear. Are they calling System Builder by two different names? "System Builder" in one paragraph and "OEM" in another?

The question is still not answered.

How do I obtain a legal license for Windows 8 Pro 64 bit to run in my already-existing Windows 8 Pro 64 bit?
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:11 pm

Seems pretty clear that if you buy an additional System Builder license you are in the clear.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:13 am

Thanks, that helps. Now if I can get a degree or two more than "seems", I'll feel better. :P :D
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:00 am

OEM means it comes from a vendor (HP, etc). In other words you cannot virtualize a copy of Windows 8 Pro that shipped on a Dell laptop.

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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:33 am

IANAL, but here's what I go by from the EULA: Quoted from http://www.eightforums.com/general-supp ... post129488, Section 1.e:
Use in a virtualized environment. If you use virtualization software to create one or more virtual computers on a single computer hardware system, each virtual computer, and the physical computer, is considered a separate computer for purposes of this agreement. This license allows you to install only one copy of the software for use on one computer, whether that computer is physical or virtual. If you want to use the software on more than one virtual computer, you must obtain separate copies of the software and a separate license for each copy. Content protected by digital rights management technology or other full-volume disk drive encryption technology may be less secure in a virtualized environment.


When I wanted to experiment with Windows 8 Pro x64, I took that to mean that I needed (at least) an OEM license, and set it up under VirtualBox on Linux Mint, though I did wait until Newegg had the OEM DVD on sale. I loaded up that installation with most of my usual windoze stuff, and eventually melted it down. I later reinstalled it without complaint from the activation. The Mint box is built on an Intel DQ77MK with an I7-3770S, 16GB of Crucial Ballistix Tactical CAS 8 DDR3L, and a couple of Crucial M4 SSDs.

4GB of the memory and 4 of the i7's cores are allocated to the VM. I set it up that way for 2 reasons: I often run 2 other VMs at the same time on that machine, and I wanted to get a feel for how it would run on the Surface Pro's 4 threads and 4GB of RAM. (Short answer: surprisingly well IMHO, Win 8 is far more efficient than Win 7.)

From my understanding of the quote above, that VM counts as "a single computer", though I can transfer the license should I ever have to.

In case anyone doubted that I'm nutz, my Surface Pro 128GB arrived last week and is the inverse of that machine, with Linux Mint in VirtualBox on the Surface Pro. (No buyer's remorse yet.)
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:38 am

BIF wrote:Based on what Ryu has posted, I think I must order a second System Builder DVD.

But then following phrases refer to something called "OEM". As I understand it, System Builder is not the same as OEM. But the language is not clear. Are they calling System Builder by two different names? "System Builder" in one paragraph and "OEM" in another?

The question is still not answered.

How do I obtain a legal license for Windows 8 Pro 64 bit to run in my already-existing Windows 8 Pro 64 bit?


I think "OEM" and "System Builder" do tend to get used interchangeably, as system builder editions of Windows used to be called OEM editions. But as has been pointed out, OEM these days would tend to refer specifically to OEM-provided pre-activated copies, which wouldn't be much use to you.

I think system builder would be fine for your purposes, and I think you'll very likely have to order a physical copy, as aside from special offers like bthylafh mentioned, I'm not aware of them selling licenses for direct online distribution.

...I know you want more than "I think...", but I can't claim to know any of this for certain. If you want absolute certainty, your safest bet would probably be to spam a few emails to Microsoft, to try and get word straight from the horses mouth.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:20 am

GrimDanfango wrote:...I know you want more than "I think...", but I can't claim to know any of this for certain. If you want absolute certainty, your safest bet would probably be to spam a few emails to Microsoft, to try and get word straight from the horses mouth.

The snippet of the System Builder Personal Use License that Ryu quoted 8 posts back seems pretty clear to me.

@BIF - What exactly *is* it that you are still worried about? Or are you trying to figure out if there is a cheaper way to do it?
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:47 am

just brew it! wrote:
GrimDanfango wrote:...I know you want more than "I think...", but I can't claim to know any of this for certain. If you want absolute certainty, your safest bet would probably be to spam a few emails to Microsoft, to try and get word straight from the horses mouth.

The snippet of the System Builder Personal Use License that Ryu quoted 8 posts back seems pretty clear to me.

@BIF - What exactly *is* it that you are still worried about? Or are you trying to figure out if there is a cheaper way to do it?


Ah yes, I had only skim-read it - you're right, it does sound entirely clear.

I get the impression that BIF is still wondering if there's any way to obtain a System Builder license without ordering and waiting for delivery of a physical copy.

You could of course just go ahead and install using your current system builder disc, and just run the 30-day trial until your license turns up in the post.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:08 am

Don't run the trial license, just install with your key and run without activation until your new disk comes and then activate with a different key. If you install the trial I don't think you can change the key. At least not with the Win8 Enterprise trial, I know you can't. I had to reinstall.
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Re: I Would Like to Run Win 8 under itself in Hyper V

Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:16 am

derFunkenstein wrote:Don't run the trial license, just install with your key and run without activation until your new disk comes and then activate with a different key. If you install the trial I don't think you can change the key. At least not with the Win8 Enterprise trial, I know you can't. I had to reinstall.


Heh, maybe my Windows 7 knowledge is a liability. I've intentionally not supplied a key when I've installed Win 7 in the past, as it meant I didn't risk accidentally attempting to activate an already-in-use stand-in key. It doesn't affect Win 7 in any way running without one for the first 30 days (/120 days if you use the slmgr -rearm command)

I'm surprised any Windows edition forces a reinstall, unless it's a pre-release RTM build.
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