TR Forums

Reading many of the articles and blogs and the comment threads over the years, it's easy to see people hate Microsoft. And by association they hate Bill Gates. They love Steve Jobs and Apple.

But Bill Gates > Steve Jobs.

I just read about what he's done (5.8+ million lives saved etc.) and I'm so proud of Bill Gates, it got me to create this thread.

Link
http://www.quora.com/Bill-Gates/What-ar ... Bill-Gates

One of the most important people to ever live, and his legacy and the good deeds he has done will carry on through generations.

Probably up within the ranks of the likes of Andrew Carnegie and John D Rockefeller.

Very polarizing characters who drove their respectful industries into new territories fraught with questionable business ethics and practices. Each doing notable bouts of philanthropy.

Yes, I give Gates a lot of credit for deciding to do good deeds with his fortune. IMO that still doesn't completely excuse the behavior of Microsoft while he was at the helm (or the lasting effects thereof), but his karma is definitely trending in a positive direction. So I guess in my case, how I remember him will depend on whether the trend continues, and for how long.

FWIW I'm not a Steve Jobs (or Apple) fan either. I have never owned an Apple product, and don't plan to anytime in the foreseeable future.

Its easy to give time and money when you are the richest person in the world and you are retired and healthy.

I have more respect for a homeless man sharing a smile and a blanket in hard times, then bill gates giving away millions.

You measure value in the sacrifice you made for others, Bill gates has not made ANY sacrifices in his entire life.
But he did ruined many people with questionable practices. Thats the true Bill Gates legacy.

Nonetheless, he his one of the most respectable multi-billionaire today. But thats not saying much...

It will be interesting (though I will likely no longer be around when it's written) to see the actual internal history and dynamics between Gates and Ballmer. I can't tell you why, becaause I don't fully understand it myself, but I think history will show that most of the bad practices attributed to Gates were whispered into his ear by Ballmer. Doesn't absolve him from listening, but potentially puts things in a different perspective.

It will also be interesting to see what Steve Jobs' widow does with the money she's just been left to manage and philanthropize. Could help rehabilitate Steve's image in my eyes (I'm with JBI WRT Jobs & Apple products).

EDIT: For the record, I consider Ballmer to be a perfect modern exposition of Iago.

Bill Gates:
http://www.cbs.com/shows/60_minutes/vid ... -gates-2-0

Part II:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50146609n

Depends on how far away in the future his death is.

A couple of years more and he'll probably be remembered more for his foundation's philantrophist work, with a short section about the Microsoft days. If he died a decade or so ago his biography would be about a ruthless businessman.

Pie in the face.

For all the amazing things he has done, this is always the first thing I remember!

I'll go with "smart businessman and philanthropist". The history of Microsoft's ruthless dominance in the 1990s/early 00s has largely been buried by the Web 2.0 Internet and mobile device revolutions, in which Apple, Facebook, Samsung, etc. have vaulted to prominence while the Wintel legacy continues in profitable territory but no longer controls the direction of the market.

Bill Gates is a winner.
Steve Jobs was a maker.

Bill Gates fought until he won and then retired because winning was the only thing he cared about.
He went on to do philanthropy because it's an easy, well regarded and cheap way for a ruthless man to build a legacy.

Steve Jobs worked on making cool stuff until the day he died because that was the only thing he cared about.

Nobody dies on time. We either die too early with unfinished business and unfulfilled opportunities or too late with time unexploited, boredom and busywork.

Who you admire and who you don't says volumes more about you than about them.

I'd remember him over a whiskey on the rocks, while using my (Windows) PC to play Weird Al's "All About the Pentiums".

Maybe that's a bit too specific...

In America, he will always be Microsoft. However, I believe globally, he will be one of the top 5 philanthropists ever, up there with Andrew Carnegie. He has already stated numerous times that he will not be leaving a fortune to his kids. He is planning to give it all away. Moreover, he has been trying to convince his peers (those of immense wealth) to do the same.

Depending on the results of the medical research the Gates Foundation has funded, he may go down as the guy who funded the cures for X, Y, and Z.

Not sure where all the Jobs-love comes from... he was widely regarded as a control-freak and a jerk to boot who never scrupled to humiliate, mock, or deride subordinates who "didn't get it right." But Gates is still the one people love to demonize.

moog wrote:

Reading many of the articles and blogs and the comment threads over the years, it's easy to see people hate Microsoft. And by association they hate Bill Gates. They love Steve Jobs and Apple.

But Bill Gates > Steve Jobs.

I just read about what he's done (5.8+ million lives saved etc.) and I'm so proud of Bill Gates, it got me to create this thread.

Link
http://www.quora.com/Bill-Gates/What-ar ... Bill-Gates

All else aside, he's a brilliant thinker and innovator. And he's been extremely generous over the years.

I really don't get all the hate, to be honest... his company has had conflicts other companies, but I've never seen them accused of anything that rises to the level of hate that a lot of people display.

Really, the most "illegal" thing they've done has been to include features in their OS that other companies wanted people to pay for...

moog wrote:

But Bill Gates > Steve Jobs.

I just read about what he's done (5.8+ million lives saved etc.) and I'm so proud of Bill Gates

This is a joke post... Right? Or at least I hope it is... Because I feel very sad for you if you measure people's worth in an amount of $$$ they were able to give away.

P.S: I personally gave away close to a $500,000 (I do not keep count - these money don't make much difference for me and I don't use them for tax write-offs) to various people who were less fortunate than me, without requiring them to give anything back. Yet I do not consider myself ">" (a better human being) than, for example, one of our neighbors who can also do this (because he earns significantly more than me) but who only spends his earnings on himself and the needs of his own family and who could care less if some starving child is dying from Malaria in some God-forsaken country... Different people have different spending priorities and that alone should NOT make one person "better" than the other as long as all of them earn their own money in a legal way... And speaking of that - I'm sure everyone are aware that MS had multiple problems with a "legal way" thingie over its lifetime, though this topic should be left for different discussion

JohnC wrote:

moog wrote:

But Bill Gates > Steve Jobs.

I just read about what he's done (5.8+ million lives saved etc.) and I'm so proud of Bill Gates

This is a joke post... Right? Or at least I hope it is... Because I feel very sad for you if you measure people's worth in an amount of $$$ they were able to give away.

P.S: I personally gave away close to a $500,000 (I do not keep count - these money don't make much difference for me and I don't use them for tax write-offs) to various people who were less fortunate than me, .. blah blah blah

Where in Moogs post did it mention the amount of money given away?
In your post however...

Bill Gates isn't just giving money away. He is dedicating himself to causes where he can make a difference.

danny e. wrote:

Bill Gates isn't just giving money away. He is dedicating himself to causes where he can make a difference.

What's the difference? Did he suddenly became a medical doctor and joined the WHO to research various way of prevention of spreading the HIV? Or an engineer who is directly working on researching a pyrolysis reactor every day at his lab?

I remember him sleeping under his desk when he was coding for windows 3.0 ....

windwalker wrote:

Bill Gates [snip]...went on to do philanthropy because it's an easy, well regarded and cheap way for a ruthless man to build a legacy.

Or maybe, just maybe, he actually cares. I highly doubt there is a single billionaire out there who isn't ruthless in some way, shape or form. But ruthless in the business world != ruthless outside of business.

Let's run with your argument for a minute. Let's say that he did do all his philanthropy to build a legacy. And in his legacy, he helps millions of people from aids, helps kids learn computer literacy and many other things.

Is this still not a net gain for the world (ego included) compared to someone who does NOTHING and dies with all their money? Bill Gates does not promote himself. Other people report on his philanthropy, not him. You can't blame him for what other people report.

Ego/legacy or not, Bill Gates has made the world a better place.

Sargent Duck wrote:

Bill Gates does not promote himself. Other people report on his philanthropy, not him.

Did those "other people" also made this website?
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/
Including these detailed reports:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-W ... s-Database ? Are they doing this without Bill's own approval?

Do you think it is an absolute NECESSITY to register your own charity foundation in order to actually help people? Did anonymous donations became "illegal" all of the sudden?

Sargent Duck wrote:

Bill Gates has made the world a better place.

Of course he did, but that doesn't necessary make him a "better man" than other people who prefer to spend their own money on a different things simply because they were born with different priorities/preferences.

Wow. You really hate Gates don't you? How dare he give away money publicly. Just like he has been trying to convince the rest of the super-rich to give away their fortunes. He started The Giving Pledge with Warren Buffet and they just picked up 12 new billionaires, the latest was Richard Branson (Virgin Everything). You think maybe Gates works publicly with the Gates Foundation to just maybe bring other billionaires along with him by setting the example? You know, like leadership. The Giving Pledge may just be the biggest legacy of Bill Gates.

TheEmrys wrote:

Wow. You really hate Gates don't you?

Where did anyone say that? Please try to read what people actually wrote and not just skip between the lines. Also, please try to not put your own words in other people's mouth (figuratively speaking), that is not a very positive personal quality

I personally have nothing to "hate" him for - he's just an ordinary person who happened to earn (one way or the other ) more money than I do and have a different personal preferences, especially when it comes to spending his own hard-earned money. Just as Steve Jobs and 100's of other people of equal wealth. I just see no reason to evangelize him to such extremes as some people do or to consider him a better human being than others who donate much less than him (or do not donate anything at all).

JohnC wrote:

danny e. wrote:

Bill Gates isn't just giving money away. He is dedicating himself to causes where he can make a difference.

What's the difference? Did he suddenly became a medical doctor and joined the WHO to research various way of prevention of spreading the HIV? Or an engineer who is directly working on researching a pyrolysis reactor every day at his lab?

How many medical doctors do you know that can say that they've saved anywhere close to 5.8 million lives over an entire career?

JohnC wrote:

Did those "other people" also made this website?
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/
Including these detailed reports:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-W ... s-Database ? Are they doing this without Bill's own approval?

Do you think it is an absolute NECESSITY to register your own charity foundation in order to actually help people? Did anonymous donations became "illegal" all of the sudden?

Are you really this clueless or is this just an act?

Of course they're going to promote the foundation; it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense not to promote the foundation. That is one of the ways that groups that are helped find out that help is available. It's also how interested parties can find out how they can contribute. A very large part of what Gates has done is not just giving away his own money, but also convincing other billionaires to do the same. His foundation also goes to great lengths to make sure that the money is properly invested, and that it's being used in the manner it was intended.

And yes; at the scale we're talking about, it is an absolute necessity to register your own charity foundation. You cannot channel billions of dollars to various groups around the world anonymously... Certainly not legally, and not in any way where you could ensure accountability.

Sargent Duck wrote:

Bill Gates has made the world a better place.

Of course he did, but that doesn't necessary make him a "better man" than other people who prefer to spend their own money on a different things simply because they were born with different priorities/preferences.

Actually a lot of people would argue that actively working to make the world a better place does make someone a better man than someone with other priorities.

cphite wrote:

JohnC wrote:

danny e. wrote:

Bill Gates isn't just giving money away. He is dedicating himself to causes where he can make a difference.

What's the difference? Did he suddenly became a medical doctor and joined the WHO to research various way of prevention of spreading the HIV? Or an engineer who is directly working on researching a pyrolysis reactor every day at his lab?

How many medical doctors do you know that can say that they've saved anywhere close to 5.8 million lives over an entire career?

There is no proof that those 5.8 million people would have died prematurely if Bill Gates would not have donated anything Did he save all these millions of lives? Maybe, maybe not. Is he somehow a "better person" (since ALL of YOU in this thread are trying to do such comparison) than a doctor who only saved a dozen of lives? Definitely not.

*yawn*

He probably doesn't consider himself better but I consider him a better person and I really don't care about any arguments trying to make it out that "he's not better than XYZ because of ABC".

JohnC wrote:

There is no proof that those 5.8 million people would have died prematurely if Bill Gates would not have donated anything

There is no proof that the money I donated to prostate cancer research will actually help cure cancer. And yet, here I am, donating in the HOPE that a cure will be found. Under your logic, what are we supposed to? sit around and twiddle our thumbs?

JohnC wrote:

Did he save all these millions of lives? Maybe, maybe not. Is he somehow a "better person" (since ALL of YOU in this thread are trying to do such comparison) than a doctor who only saved a dozen of lives? Definitely not.

How many lives have YOU saved? Let's say that 5.8 million is high and he's only saved 1%, directly. That's still 58,000 lives he's saved. Or let's say .1% That's still 5,800 lives. Anybody who saves lives is a better person. How many BILLIONAIRS have YOU convinced to give away their fortune?

What is your criteria for being a "better" person? Cause obviously saving lives and donating don't make your list.

Wow, you people just keep reading only what YOU want to read instead of the actual meaning... I give up. Forget it.

JohnC wrote:

blah, blah, blah.... I give up. Forget it.

If everyone is misunderstanding you, the only commonality is you. It may be that what was written did not accurately reflect what you intended.

Krogoth wrote:

Probably up within the ranks of the likes of Andrew Carnegie and John D Rockefeller.

Very polarizing characters who drove their respectful industries into new territories fraught with questionable business ethics and practices. Each doing notable bouts of philanthropy.

Jerks?