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Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:38 pm
by Hz so good
For anyone that's running SteamOS, can you compare the performance and resource usage with a demanding game under both Steam OS and Win7 64bit on the exact same hardware? I'm just curious to see what exactly Steam OS buys you, by carving away the Windows bloat.
/I like the controller, though.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:41 pm
by Captain Ned
Hz so good wrote:/I like the controller, though.
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20130930
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:54 pm
by keltor
The SteamOS has a nice kernel with some new stuff that's ONLY available there, but other than that, it's just Linux.
A few games run faster in Linux, probably all the ones where the developers put the MOST amount of effort into the port. Aren't the latest ports usually the fastest?
If you are a regular desktop Windows gamer sitting at a desk with a mouse and a keyboard, SteamOS doesn't really buy you must if anything, but then it's not targeted at you ...
Now if you are a current HTPC type gamer who's playing from the couch, SteamOS is nice. It's Big Picture Mode taken to the next level, which is basically what I think most people thought it would be. You get rid of all the Windows nonsense that you didn't really want or need while playing on your couch and yet you get the upgradability/better performance than a console. This is the target market: console players who want better performance and upgradability. I'm not sure if it will work or not, the PS4 and Xbone just came out, but at the same time, they are basically a low end PC.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:37 pm
by Hz so good
Captain Ned wrote:
Sweet baby Jeebus! I think I'll stick to my 360 controller for a while longer!
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:40 pm
by Hz so good
keltor wrote:The SteamOS has a nice kernel with some new stuff that's ONLY available there, but other than that, it's just Linux.
A few games run faster in Linux, probably all the ones where the developers put the MOST amount of effort into the port. Aren't the latest ports usually the fastest?
If you are a regular desktop Windows gamer sitting at a desk with a mouse and a keyboard, SteamOS doesn't really buy you must if anything, but then it's not targeted at you ...
Now if you are a current HTPC type gamer who's playing from the couch, SteamOS is nice. It's Big Picture Mode taken to the next level, which is basically what I think most people thought it would be. You get rid of all the Windows nonsense that you didn't really want or need while playing on your couch and yet you get the upgradability/better performance than a console. This is the target market: console players who want better performance and upgradability. I'm not sure if it will work or not, the PS4 and Xbone just came out, but at the same time, they are basically a low end PC.
I was just wondering, since *in theory*, it would allow me to use my pre-existing hardware to it's fullest potential. It's not the newest machine one the block , but between my i7-2600K, R7950, 8GBDDR3, SSD boot drive, and 4TB storage, it should run rings around the PS4.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:34 pm
by Deanjo
Hz so good wrote:I was just wondering, since *in theory*, it would allow me to use my pre-existing hardware to it's fullest potential. It's not the newest machine one the block , but between my i7-2600K,R7950, 8GBDDR3, SSD boot drive, and 4TB storage, it should run rings around the PS4.
There's your systems Achilles heal for SteamOS (or more to the point, the linux game ports).
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:48 pm
by Hz so good
Deanjo wrote:Hz so good wrote:I was just wondering, since *in theory*, it would allow me to use my pre-existing hardware to it's fullest potential. It's not the newest machine one the block , but between my i7-2600K,R7950, 8GBDDR3, SSD boot drive, and 4TB storage, it should run rings around the PS4.
There's your systems Achilles heal for SteamOS (or more to the point, the linux game ports).
Yeah, I never understood Valves love for Nv only. Maybe they just have better linux drivers, I guess. Still, it would be nice to find an OS that strips away all the non-essentials, and let the power of my hardware be unleashed for a change. Sega put standard, off the shelf components to great effect in their (japan only) arcade offerings. I would be nice to be able to hang on to this box a little longer than the average upgrade cycle.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:44 pm
by JustAnEngineer
NVidia's proprietary binary drivers work better in Linux. That's what Valve is counting on for gaming performance for the Steam machine. Phoronix was actually able to run Steam OS with a Radeon HD6970 right out of the box.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:51 pm
by Hz so good
JustAnEngineer wrote:NVidia's proprietary binary drivers work better in Linux. That's what Valve is counting on for gaming performance for the Steam machine. Phoronix was actually able to run Steam OS with a Radeon HD6970 right out of the box.
So it's basically down to AMDs drivers sucking nards, and no amount of letter-writing or feet-stamping on our part is gonna fix that, huh? Bummer. You'd think they'd have some type of offering, since the PS4 uses their hardware and runs on linux, but I guess that's only due to Sony's effort, not AMDs...
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:02 pm
by Deanjo
Hz so good wrote: You'd think they'd have some type of offering, since the PS4 uses their hardware and runs on linux, but I guess that's only due to Sony's effort, not AMDs...
The PS4 is running FreeBSD, not linux. AMD doesn't even provide drivers for FreeBSD in a public manner. Also just because the PS4 is using FreeBSD it does not mean an easy port to linux, the PS4 isn't even utilizing openGL and chances are that Sony is accessing the hardware at a much lower level then going through the X11 stack.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:16 pm
by Hz so good
Deanjo wrote:Hz so good wrote: You'd think they'd have some type of offering, since the PS4 uses their hardware and runs on linux, but I guess that's only due to Sony's effort, not AMDs...
The PS4 is running FreeBSD, not linux. AMD doesn't even provide drivers for FreeBSD in a public manner. Also just because the PS4 is using FreeBSD it does not mean an easy port to linux, the PS4 isn't even utilizing openGL and chances are that Sony is accessing the hardware at a much lower level then going through the X11 stack.
Huh, I didn't realize it was FreeBSD based. And since they aren't using OpenGL, any ideas what graphics libary they are using?
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:36 am
by Deanjo
Hz so good wrote:Huh, I didn't realize it was FreeBSD based. And since they aren't using OpenGL, any ideas what graphics libary they are using?
IIRC it is a newer version of libGCM.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:48 am
by PenGun
Yup GPL can be a bitch. It's not hard to see why they went with FreeBSD. I mean M$ hung their network stack off it for a decade
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:55 pm
by keltor
The entire point of copy-left style copyright is so that you cannot just take the code and run. The BSD style is just that they want a nod that they wrote some of the code. So really the GPL isn't a bitch, it's exactly what it's supposed to be.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:55 pm
by keltor
Also the PS4 has PSGL which is based on OpenGL ES v2.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:01 pm
by Deanjo
keltor wrote:Also the PS4 has PSGL which is based on OpenGL ES v2.
PSGL, is based off openGL ES that is true, but is different enough to prevent a straight over port. Also, for anything other then GUI screens, PSGL use in games is near non-existent.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:06 pm
by Deanjo
keltor wrote:The entire point of copy-left style copyright is so that you cannot just take the code and run.
That's not true, it means you cannot take the code and run if you wish to redistribute (legally). It doesn't prevent an individual however from taking the source, modding the hell out of it, and mixing what ever licenses you want for your own use. In reality however, it is not hard to even redistribute copyleft code without anyone knowing the wiser. Anyone wishing to do so, could obfuscate the code enough that proving that copyleft code was used through disassembly would be next to impossible.
Copyleft only stops honest people from doing dishonorable practices.
Re: Steam OS
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:16 pm
by Jahrew
Hz so good wrote:JustAnEngineer wrote:NVidia's proprietary binary drivers work better in Linux. That's what Valve is counting on for gaming performance for the Steam machine. Phoronix was actually able to run Steam OS with a Radeon HD6970 right out of the box.
So it's basically down to AMDs drivers sucking nards, and no amount of letter-writing or feet-stamping on our part is gonna fix that, huh? Bummer. You'd think they'd have some type of offering, since the PS4 uses their hardware and runs on linux, but I guess that's only due to Sony's effort, not AMDs...
AMDs drivers have come a long way this past year in terms of Linux support. I have a 7790 and with the latest Catalyst 14.3 beta driver and 3.13 kernel and I'm able to play any of the games I have without problem. There are also Open Source drivers for AMDs GPUs that are getting better every week. Valve pushing for more Linux has made them step up their game in the past year, expect the drivers to be on par with Windows in the near future.