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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:54 pm

leor wrote:
david00214 wrote:
LEOR!!! THE MIGHTY MIGHTY UGN GERBIL IS COMING FOR YOU!!! WHAT SHALL YOU DO???

Image

meh, i've gone off the whole thing. the SMP client was the beginning, that got drfish disinterested in the whole points thing, now this GPU client iced it for me.

when 10 GPUs = 50k and 40 CPUs = 10k, what's the point of maintaining a farm and staying in competition?


Tisk! Tisk! Leor. Such a defeatist attitude. :roll:

Roll with the tide big boy. Start folding with GPUs! Where's the fire in the belly, man!! :o
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leor
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:56 pm

jeffry55 wrote:
Tisk! Tisk! Leor. Such a defeatist attitude. :roll:

Roll with the tide big boy. Start folding with GPUs! Where's the fire in the belly, man!! :o

business systems don't have GPUs, homey.
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:25 pm

david00214 wrote:
I do have both GPUs folding, the issue is that one of them is really underperforming. Here are the remaining details that I promised. Does anyone know what else I can try?


It appears that one of my GX2's has gone from full production on both GPU's, to one being half the production of the other. It ran fine for a month.

However, mine does show a "symptom" if you display the GPU using GPU-Z. The underperforming GPU is not showing any Shader clock speed, whereas the normally producting one is showing clock speed. I've got a GX2 and a 8800GTS in the same machine, so the heat output is prodigious. I think I'm done with GX2's.
 
jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:02 am

Hey Gerbils, we're over 70k ppd today! :D I am going to be adding a 9800GX2 to our folding power in the next two weeks. What can you add? :o

Let's have a drive to reach 100k ppd!!! :P :P

I know it will make Leor feel better. :wink:
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:05 am

david00214 wrote:
david00214 wrote:
jeffry55 wrote:

Yes, I do! I do!! Pick me!!! :D

Uninstall the video driver. Restart your computer in safe mode (press F-8 during startup) and run the NVidia installer. I don't think you get auto install of drivers other than the basic stuff in Safe Mode. :D

Hmmm That's not a bad idea. I've never installed drivers from Safe Mode. Anything special I need to do?


Anything special ..................hmmmmmmmmmmmm...........................burnt offerings to the Microsoft Gods always help, two good beers, a swiss army knife and a piece of string. Tap the F-8 key like your life depended on it until you get the boot screen. I tap out S-O-S in morse code. :wink: :lol:


... --- ...


Very clever. :lol:
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MaxTheLimit
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:16 pm

Bit of a problem. Must have had a power outage or something because all my PC's just stopped running. Can't even remote in back home so today is a bit of a bust. there goes my 9600GT machine, my 8800GT machine, and the 4870 machine. I hope it's not serious, and I'm at work for another 10 hours.
 
jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:56 pm

MaxTheLimit wrote:
Bit of a problem. Must have had a power outage or something because all my PC's just stopped running. Can't even remote in back home so today is a bit of a bust. there goes my 9600GT machine, my 8800GT machine, and the 4870 machine. I hope it's not serious, and I'm at work for another 10 hours.


:-? Power outages suck! :x
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:08 pm

jeffry55 wrote:
Hey Gerbils, we're over 70k ppd today! :D I am going to be adding a 9800GX2 to our folding power in the next two weeks. What can you add? :o

Let's have a drive to reach 100k ppd!!! :P :P

I know it will make Leor feel better. :wink:


Hmm,
i have two pimped out Q9450s and three G92 class GPUs. I'm pimped)

still need to get the 9800gx2 workin 100%, currently it only hits 8 to 9k, but been too busy and i'm a single dad this week.

if you guys could just talk me into building an htpc I migtt be able to get another 6 to 10 k ppd... so why should i throw my ps3 and cable box away and build an htpc? what's in it for me?

OR, why does my two year old need a quad core??? hmmmmmmmm

Seriously though, we're savihng money so we cn one day leave NJ. Anyone know of a cool job in Golden Colorado? Think I want to be next to some mountains.
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flybywire
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:10 pm

Hmm, a gerbil on skis.. now that's a thought.
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:25 pm

leor wrote:
jeffry55 wrote:
Tisk! Tisk! Leor. Such a defeatist attitude. :roll:

Roll with the tide big boy. Start folding with GPUs! Where's the fire in the belly, man!! :o

business systems don't have GPUs, homey.


Eh, we're not that scary: Image

You can do it Leor :D
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:41 pm

leor, you're sounding on the pathetic side now. You used to have at least a few boxes in your domicile, one of which was multi-socketed if I remember right. Your hardware obsolesced, so either upgrade or stand up and concede victory to the rodents.

Admittedly, I'm surprised they didn't lose more participants after last month's electric bill.
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:10 am

leor wrote:
jeffry55 wrote:
Tisk! Tisk! Leor. Such a defeatist attitude. :roll:

Roll with the tide big boy. Start folding with GPUs! Where's the fire in the belly, man!! :o

business systems don't have GPUs, homey.


Don't know why but after reading your few comments, i feel your sig doesn't suits you... :lol:
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:52 am

david00214 wrote:
jeffry55 wrote:
Hey Gerbils, we're over 70k ppd today! :D I am going to be adding a 9800GX2 to our folding power in the next two weeks. What can you add? :o

Let's have a drive to reach 100k ppd!!! :P :P

I know it will make Leor feel better. :wink:


Hmm,

Seriously though, we're saving money so we can one day leave NJ. Anyone know of a cool job in Golden Colorado? Think I want to be next to some mountains.


Hey David,

I lived in Denver for 13 years prior to moving to California. PM or email me about the types of jobs you are looking for. I still have contacts there. :D

There are mountains out here in CA too. :wink:
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rbattle
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:53 am

Alright, I am out until Monday at least. Ike is coming to get me! I am only 10 feet above sea level, so my house may not make it. You guys stay strong without me this weekend... :lol:
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:13 pm

rbattle wrote:
Alright, I am out until Monday at least. Ike is coming to get me! I am only 10 feet above sea level, so my house may not make it. You guys stay strong without me this weekend... :lol:


Abandon the women and children, save the folding computers!
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:38 pm

rbattle wrote:
Alright, I am out until Monday at least. Ike is coming to get me! I am only 10 feet above sea level, so my house may not make it. You guys stay strong without me this weekend... :lol:


Put your computers in the attic and leave the rest for the wolves! :D Seriously, get to high ground while we pool our psychic resources and attempt to steer Ike to the west!! :o
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:58 pm

You UGN SMP+GPU2 folders: how do you make sure the GPU2 client gets enough cycles? Running XP makes it tricky.

I may have to upgrade to Vista to make it work without doing anything special. Both are running as services, which means the SYSTEM account owns them, so you can't modify the priority or affinity without using software like Sysinternals Process Explorer that ignores the permissions that Task Manager follows. For now, lowering the priority of VMware so it allows a few for the GPU helps, but it's still not enough to make the GPU2 client run at full speed. Its priority and affinity have to be modified for every WU to get it close to that level of performance.
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:33 am

Ragnar Dan wrote:
You UGN SMP+GPU2 folders: how do you make sure the GPU2 client gets enough cycles? Running XP makes it tricky.

I may have to upgrade to Vista to make it work without doing anything special. Both are running as services, which means the SYSTEM account owns them, so you can't modify the priority or affinity without using software like Sysinternals Process Explorer that ignores the permissions that Task Manager follows. For now, lowering the priority of VMware so it allows a few for the GPU helps, but it's still not enough to make the GPU2 client run at full speed. Its priority and affinity have to be modified for every WU to get it close to that level of performance.


Actually with Vista I don't have to worry about the GPU2 clients getting cycles. My SMP clients are on cores 0,1 and 2,3. My GPU2 clients are spread over all 4 cores.

Now, I can't get the second GPU2 client to produce at peak PPD, but that is some kind of software issue, not a CPU issue. I've let the GPU2 client have a core to itself with no positive effect. I still have to try a couple of tricks yet to get it producing...

I don't have XP on a folding rig anymore so I can't really say which OS is better overall.
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Flying Fox
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:32 am

Ragnar Dan wrote:
You UGN SMP+GPU2 folders: how do you make sure the GPU2 client gets enough cycles? Running XP makes it tricky.

I may have to upgrade to Vista to make it work without doing anything special. Both are running as services, which means the SYSTEM account owns them, so you can't modify the priority or affinity without using software like Sysinternals Process Explorer that ignores the permissions that Task Manager follows. For now, lowering the priority of VMware so it allows a few for the GPU helps, but it's still not enough to make the GPU2 client run at full speed. Its priority and affinity have to be modified for every WU to get it close to that level of performance.

You can mess with priority and affinity in the .vmx file. Try adding these (and restart the VMs) to see if they work:
Source

This is supposed to work for affinity too.

I also think through the VMware Server (you are using that one right?) GUI you can configure which user account it runs those services with. You don't have to run them as SYSTEM.
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:55 am

david00214 wrote:
if you guys could just talk me into building an htpc I migtt be able to get another 6 to 10 k ppd... so why should i throw my ps3 and cable box away and build an htpc? what's in it for me?
I have been thinking something similar too. If I want the PS3 to be my multimedia player I have to set up a transcoding media server on one of my PCs. It has to be quite powerful too as I have a lot of DivX/MKV/OGM content. With a real HTPC I can play those without worrying about transcoding and I can use a real PC on the big screen (whenever I get to buy one). So for now I am leaning towards PS3+HTPC for playing all kinds of media in the living/family room.

david00214 wrote:
OR, why does my two year old need a quad core??? hmmmmmmmm
Everyone can use more cores. :lol:
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:09 am

Flying Fox wrote:
david00214 wrote:
if you guys could just talk me into building an htpc I migtt be able to get another 6 to 10 k ppd... so why should i throw my ps3 and cable box away and build an htpc? what's in it for me?
I have been thinking something similar too. If I want the PS3 to be my multimedia player I have to set up a transcoding media server on one of my PCs. It has to be quite powerful too as I have a lot of DivX/MKV/OGM content. With a real HTPC I can play those without worrying about transcoding and I can use a real PC on the big screen (whenever I get to buy one). So for now I am leaning towards PS3+HTPC for playing all kinds of media in the living/family room.

david00214 wrote:
OR, why does my two year old need a quad core??? hmmmmmmmm
Everyone can use more cores. :lol:


Yeah, just think how much more your two year old will learn with a quad core computer! :P :lol:
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:10 am

jeffry55 wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
david00214 wrote:
if you guys could just talk me into building an htpc I migtt be able to get another 6 to 10 k ppd... so why should i throw my ps3 and cable box away and build an htpc? what's in it for me?
I have been thinking something similar too. If I want the PS3 to be my multimedia player I have to set up a transcoding media server on one of my PCs. It has to be quite powerful too as I have a lot of DivX/MKV/OGM content. With a real HTPC I can play those without worrying about transcoding and I can use a real PC on the big screen (whenever I get to buy one). So for now I am leaning towards PS3+HTPC for playing all kinds of media in the living/family room.

david00214 wrote:
OR, why does my two year old need a quad core??? hmmmmmmmm
Everyone can use more cores. :lol:


Yeah, just think how much more your two year old will learn with a quad core computer! :P :lol:



Or may you can help develop his/her "core" values! :lol: :lol:
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:17 pm

I think for me the tipping point will be when Netflix offers streaming Hi-Def content. I don't have any video on my system that I watch. All it does is fold, surf web, and play games for about 15 minutes per week, if that... I used to game for 8 to 12 hours at a time, but alas, I now actually work for a living.

shifting gears

Ugh, I have an SMP client that stops folding after it finishes a WU. I tried rebooting the VM. Anyone know what else to try?
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:52 pm

david00214 wrote:
I think for me the tipping point will be when Netflix offers streaming Hi-Def content. I don't have any video on my system that I watch. All it does is fold, surf web, and play games for about 15 minutes per week, if that... I used to game for 8 to 12 hours at a time, but alas, I now actually work for a living.

shifting gears

Ugh, I have an SMP client that stops folding after it finishes a WU. I tried rebooting the VM. Anyone know what else to try?


Do you have the 'forceasm' flag on? If so, try taking it off and see if that helps.
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:04 pm

david00214 wrote:
Ragnar Dan wrote:
You UGN SMP+GPU2 folders: how do you make sure the GPU2 client gets enough cycles? Running XP makes it tricky.

I may have to upgrade to Vista to make it work without doing anything special. Both are running as services, which means the SYSTEM account owns them, so you can't modify the priority or affinity without using software like Sysinternals Process Explorer that ignores the permissions that Task Manager follows. For now, lowering the priority of VMware so it allows a few for the GPU helps, but it's still not enough to make the GPU2 client run at full speed. Its priority and affinity have to be modified for every WU to get it close to that level of performance.


Actually with Vista I don't have to worry about the GPU2 clients getting cycles. My SMP clients are on cores 0,1 and 2,3. My GPU2 clients are spread over all 4 cores.
[...]
I don't have XP on a folding rig anymore so I can't really say which OS is better overall.

Only XP users' input is likely to be useful; you Vista types can cram it. Besides, installing Vista is the easy route, but that's money for no real reason. Whereas I could pretend the video card was for a real reason I've not yet determined. ;)

Flying Fox: My problem, as already explained, isn't with the VMware stuff. I can set it to run at lower priority with no trouble, and it even allows that in its console under Host->Settings where its Priority tab has "Input grabbed" and "Input ungrabbed" boxes allowing the choice between normal and low priority, as you indicate. That is not the problem. It's how do XP users get any useful production out of GPU2 clients running on cards which are also driving their displays if they're also running at least one SMP client using all cores. Affinity has nothing to do with the VMware setup here, since it requires at least 2 cores, and that's all the machine has. The question to answer is how to allow at least one of them to be available for the GPU2's FahCore_11.exe process at any time, which means correcting the bug in [email protected] that fails to respect the configuration choice to "Disable CPU affinity lock", which leaves a line saying "nocpulock=1" in the client.cfg. The client is now almost 3 months old, yet no bug fix.

So far there's no way to do all those things at once in XP that I've seen without using additional software. I could probably, after a fair amount of research, cobble together something to watch for the process by name and once every n minutes make sure it's got the proper affinity & priority to run at full speed (it could be made more efficient than that, but it likely would take at most a few milliseconds of CPU time per minute anyway). There's also a utility that I found which may do most of the work (a console application which allows the settings, though I haven't tested it yet. The rest can be done by calling it as a scheduled task every 10 minutes or some such). That still leaves out the ability to quickly change it back, but that's just a shortcut or batch file to call the utility with the proper parameters.

The System account is the only way I'm aware of that allows the service to run without the user being logged in. Back in 2007 when I started running the Linux SMP client under VMware I tried running it as a user and it will not start until that user is logged in. That's a major reason why I and others use it. If one sets things up properly, all anyone need do is turn the machine on and it's folding at full speed. Even a young child can do that.
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:46 pm

Ragnar Dan wrote:
Flying Fox: My problem, as already explained, isn't with the VMware stuff. I can set it to run at lower priority with no trouble, and it even allows that in its console under Host->Settings where its Priority tab has "Input grabbed" and "Input ungrabbed" boxes allowing the choice between normal and low priority, as you indicate. That is not the problem. It's how do XP users get any useful production out of GPU2 clients running on cards which are also driving their displays if they're also running at least one SMP client using all cores. Affinity has nothing to do with the VMware setup here, since it requires at least 2 cores, and that's all the machine has. The question to answer is how to allow at least one of them to be available for the GPU2's FahCore_11.exe process at any time, which means correcting the bug in [email protected] that fails to respect the configuration choice to "Disable CPU affinity lock", which leaves a line saying "nocpulock=1" in the client.cfg. The client is now almost 3 months old, yet no bug fix.
Is it possible to set the VMware process to be "low" priority while GPU is "lower" (higher than "low")? May be this will help?

Ragnar Dan wrote:
The System account is the only way I'm aware of that allows the service to run without the user being logged in. Back in 2007 when I started running the Linux SMP client under VMware I tried running it as a user and it will not start until that user is logged in. That's a major reason why I and others use it. If one sets things up properly, all anyone need do is turn the machine on and it's folding at full speed. Even a young child can do that.
That is odd. I run services with my account all the time, but I supposed I don't have the exact environment as yours. I do Win2K3 or XP Pro only so if you have XP Home then there may be a difference. I don't have a spare environment to test but I will after this month.
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:09 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Is it possible to set the VMware process to be "low" priority while GPU is "lower" (higher than "low")? May be this will help?

You mean "less" low. Yeah, but while it helps, it still leaves thousands of PPD missing, generally used up by the idle process or something. Lately, the new ATI-friendly WU's are eating almost as many points.

Flying Fox wrote:
That is odd. I run services with my account all the time, but I supposed I don't have the exact environment as yours. I do Win2K3 or XP Pro only so if you have XP Home then there may be a difference. I don't have a spare environment to test but I will after this month.

Of course I'm running XP Pro...

I'm not confident that my experience is universal, but it makes some sense. A service associated with an account which is not be logged in gets to run, while another user logged in loses cycles to it and has to muck around to get rid of it? Seems unlikely to me, but it's an area I've not delved into much. The System logically seems the account to run such a service, though, since that means it's important enough that nobody with lower privileges can normally stop it from running.
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:35 am

Ragnar Dan wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Is it possible to set the VMware process to be "low" priority while GPU is "lower" (higher than "low")? May be this will help?

You mean "less" low. Yeah, but while it helps, it still leaves thousands of PPD missing, generally used up by the idle process or something. Lately, the new ATI-friendly WU's are eating almost as many points.
Well, it's a given that for a dual core box, SMP+GPU2 will be fighting CPU resources, the trick is give GPU2 more CPU without SMP suffering to the point where it is not feasible, sure there may be "thousands" of points missing, but say your SMP can do 1200ppd and your GPU2 can do 5000ppd on their own, and when you put them together the SMP becomes 200ppd and your GPU2 becomes 4000ppd, then of course it is better to just run GPU2 and may be a single core client. If the GPU2 core client is unaffected, then 5200>5000. That's why I have been saying that you have to test it on your machines. So if GPU2 has higher priority than SMP shouldn't it work? I am not sure since I don't have a high powered GPU to test yet.

Ragnar Dan wrote:
I'm not confident that my experience is universal, but it makes some sense. A service associated with an account which is not be logged in gets to run, while another user logged in loses cycles to it and has to muck around to get rid of it? Seems unlikely to me, but it's an area I've not delved into much. The System logically seems the account to run such a service, though, since that means it's important enough that nobody with lower privileges can normally stop it from running.
At least in a networked environment there are lots of times a service will be run with a regular user account, because that service requires network access (usually to shares on the network). So it is weird that you cannot do it. Remember services are meant to be run in the background.
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:22 am

Flying Fox wrote:
Ragnar Dan wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Is it possible to set the VMware process to be "low" priority while GPU is "lower" (higher than "low")? May be this will help?

You mean "less" low. Yeah, but while it helps, it still leaves thousands of PPD missing, generally used up by the idle process or something. Lately, the new ATI-friendly WU's are eating almost as many points.
Well, it's a given that for a dual core box, SMP+GPU2 will be fighting CPU resources, the trick is give GPU2 more CPU without SMP suffering to the point where it is not feasible, sure there may be "thousands" of points missing, but say your SMP can do 1200ppd and your GPU2 can do 5000ppd on their own, and when you put them together the SMP becomes 200ppd and your GPU2 becomes 4000ppd, then of course it is better to just run GPU2 and may be a single core client. If the GPU2 core client is unaffected, then 5200>5000. That's why I have been saying that you have to test it on your machines. So if GPU2 has higher priority than SMP shouldn't it work? I am not sure since I don't have a high powered GPU to test yet.

Ragnar Dan wrote:
I'm not confident that my experience is universal, but it makes some sense. A service associated with an account which is not be logged in gets to run, while another user logged in loses cycles to it and has to muck around to get rid of it? Seems unlikely to me, but it's an area I've not delved into much. The System logically seems the account to run such a service, though, since that means it's important enough that nobody with lower privileges can normally stop it from running.
At least in a networked environment there are lots of times a service will be run with a regular user account, because that service requires network access (usually to shares on the network). So it is weird that you cannot do it. Remember services are meant to be run in the background.


You guys make my head hurt when you talk like this. :-? I think sometimes ignorance is bliss. :lol:
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:48 pm

I underclocked my 9800GX2 to 450MHZ and OC'd the shaders to 1850. It's pretty quiet now and still putting out 90% of it's prior PPD. I may bump it to 500MHZ and see what happens, but it's nice to have a quiet PC again :)
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