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Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:17 pm

JPinTO wrote:
Use HFM.net to give you your PPD including the bonus. Fahmon doesn't do calculate the bonus. HFM will read your FAHmon config file so there is no setup time.

The Win A3 client is apparently slightly faster than linux, so I'm shutting down my Linux guests and have gone back to windows. The only thing that sucks about win SMP client is if you get a Low PPD A1 WU to chomp on.

The bonus only works after you've submitted 10 A2 or A3 WU's, and it's tied into your username & passkey. If you switch your client from UnitedGerbilNation you will need to do another 10 WU's before you start getting your Bonus.

- JP


What's this passkey? Do I get it automatically or do I have to do something specific for it?
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:24 pm

 
Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:32 pm

Ragnar Dan wrote:


Thanks!

Passkey entered. I'm folding under Darwin00214.
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Flying Fox
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:08 am

JPinTO wrote:
The Win A3 client is apparently slightly faster than linux, so I'm shutting down my Linux guests and have gone back to windows. The only thing that sucks about win SMP client is if you get a Low PPD A1 WU to chomp on.
Does WinSMP still EUE on even the lowliest of A1's? That was a big problem for me and switching to Linux VM solved it. Coupled that with all the stability tests that I run I am pretty sure it was WinSMP's fault.
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JPinTO
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:16 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Does WinSMP still EUE on even the lowliest of A1's? That was a big problem for me and switching to Linux VM solved it. Coupled that with all the stability tests that I run I am pretty sure it was WinSMP's fault.


I only got a few A1's and they went fine. The A3's have been solid for me both under Linux & Win, so I'm not going to bother with the extra VMWare Linux hassle. With A3 core, there is no longer a PPD advantage for Linux.

- JP
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:30 pm

JPinTO wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Does WinSMP still EUE on even the lowliest of A1's? That was a big problem for me and switching to Linux VM solved it. Coupled that with all the stability tests that I run I am pretty sure it was WinSMP's fault.


I only got a few A1's and they went fine. The A3's have been solid for me both under Linux & Win, so I'm not going to bother with the extra VMWare Linux hassle. With A3 core, there is no longer a PPD advantage for Linux.

- JP

For now though, I think the bonus and the -bigadv only apply to 7/8 threads/cores that you can assign on your CPUs so this pretty much just applies to the i7 users? I know the bonus scheme is supposed to be coming for the rest of the WUs in an upcoming client but not yet. Can you confirm? If yes, then for now those who are still using 2-4 core CPUs should still be better off running Linux VMs if they can spring it.
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JPinTO
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:08 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
For now though, I think the bonus and the -bigadv only apply to 7/8 threads/cores that you can assign on your CPUs so this pretty much just applies to the i7 users? I know the bonus scheme is supposed to be coming for the rest of the WUs in an upcoming client but not yet. Can you confirm? If yes, then for now those who are still using 2-4 core CPUs should still be better off running Linux VMs if they can spring it.


The bonus system was beta tested on the -bigadv units. Now all the A3 units qualify for bonus points (after you do you 10 prequalifying units and have an 80%+ return ratio). I'm running the non-BIGADV and getting the bonus points. Actually, I'm not going to bother with the BIGADV units as there is a huge risk of zero points if you kakk one, you will have wasted 3 days of folding. It's safer IMO to churn through multiple smaller units. Plus all your bonus points are gone on a BIGADV if there is a processing, upload or collection server failure. It's just less risky running the regular A3 units, and you still get great bonuses. Plus you don't need 6GB RAM to run the regular A3 units.

The base line processor is a Q6600 so, you've got to run something faster if you want to qualify for early completion bonus. Here are some sample stats on WinSMP.

Q9450 3.4Ghz: 8-9000PPD on WINSMP.
Q9550 3.5Ghz: 8-9000PPD on WINSMP
Q6600 2.7: Currently down but I'm guessing 5000PPD
i7 920 3.8Ghz: 25-35,000PPD depending on WU :o :o :o

I currently don't see a reason to run Linux, we'll see. You can always turn it back on if you need to. Plus Win A3 uses hardly any RAM rather than requiring 600Mb for a VM.

- JP
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:30 pm

JPinTO wrote:
Q9450 3.4Ghz: 8-9000PPD on WINSMP.
Q9550 3.5Ghz: 8-9000PPD on WINSMP
Q6600 2.7: Currently down but I'm guessing 5000PPD
i7 920 3.8Ghz: 25-35,000PPD depending on WU :o :o :o



Jeffry - It think it's time you upgrade. ;) and I don't mean your GTX260!

On a sad note, I lost a WU that was at 96% due to stupidity. Then I had to kill another WU that didn't look like it was folding like it should. I suspect losing the WU and the second WU being slow were cause I mistakenly launched the client using the wrong icon, and therefore without the '-smp -advmethods -bigadv' settings... I'm not sure that's what happened, but it's my best guess.
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:58 pm

It took three PCs about a year to get to 10,000 points back when the project started up.
 
Flying Fox
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Re: passkey

Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:47 am

jeffry55 on Sep 27, 2007 12:36 pm wrote:
Calling all Gerbils! Calling all Gerbils!! The new folding clients will probably throw a monkey wrench into the wheels with the all emcompassing folding client, -smp flags, passkeys and potential for no credit for "bonus points". Grrrr ............... :x What Bonus points? :-?

The good news is we can fold as a subteam without a passkey. 8)

Please don't get a passkey for UGN on your own.

I will try out the new client tonight, get a passkey and send out PMs with the passkey to everyone listed on the UGN Census.

We shall overcome. :D

Jeffry, did you ever get a passkey for UGN? I remember reading somewhere that we should be able to get our own passkey with our email address but still fold under the same username? Or we want to truly fold as one unit then we will need the key from our fearless leader. ;)

@JPinTO: a quick google came up with some links that may be a dual core is not going to make a difference, and perhaps get a drop in performance? I may try it on one of my Linux VMs (I have a good thing going don't want to go through installing WinSMP with the services and stuff at this point yet) later.
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Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:27 am

I think something is wrong. It's taking hours between steps and this project has a 3 day preferred deadline. I'm showing all 4 cores/8 threads fully loaded and I'm clocked at 3.8GHZ (i7 920). Any idea what is going on here?
[03:26:09] + Closed connections
[03:26:14]
[03:26:14] + Processing work unit
[03:26:14] Core required: FahCore_a3.exe
[03:26:14] Core found.
[03:26:14] Working on queue slot 04 [February 15 03:26:14 UTC]
[03:26:14] + Working ...
[03:26:14]
[03:26:14] *------------------------------*
[03:26:14] Folding@Home Gromacs SMP Core
[03:26:14] Version 2.15 (Jan 15, 2010)
[03:26:14]
[03:26:14] Preparing to commence simulation
[03:26:14] - Looking at optimizations...
[03:26:14] - Created dyn
[03:26:14] - Files status OK
[03:26:15] - Expanded 1772838 -> 1975105 (decompressed 111.4 percent)
[03:26:15] Called DecompressByteArray: compressed_data_size=1772838 data_size=19
75105, decompressed_data_size=1975105 diff=0
[03:26:15] - Digital signature verified
[03:26:15]
[03:26:15] Project: 6021 (Run 0, Clone 1, Gen 35)
[03:26:15]
[03:26:15] Assembly optimizations on if available.
[03:26:15] Entering M.D.
[03:26:21] Completed 0 out of 500000 steps  (0%)
[06:34:20] Completed 5000 out of 500000 steps  (1%)
[09:45:02] Completed 10000 out of 500000 steps  (2%)
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JPinTO
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:25 am

That's wrong. Reboot or delete the WU and try again. My i7 920 @ 3.8 is doing 3min:6 secs / frame on a P6021 R0 C54 G24... which shouldn't be that far off your from WU.

Is that Linux or Win?

Did you specify "-smp 8" ?

- JP
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:33 am

JPinTO wrote:
That's wrong. Reboot or delete the WU and try again. My i7 920 @ 3.8 is doing 3min:6 secs / frame on a P6021 R0 C54 G24... which shouldn't be that far off your from WU.

Is that Linux or Win?

Did you specify "-smp 8" ?

- JP


I just did "-smp" but it shows all 8 cores loaded, AND, it was working yesterday (time was around 3.5 min per frame on a few 6023s). I will delete the WU.
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:35 am

First test it with the proper arguments and see what happens. Then think about other options.
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:37 am

Grrrrrr - At some point in the tag swapping process I downloaded a b4 core. And Windows won't let me delete it! WTH? I even tried rebooting, but I keep getting a windows message that the process is in use, but I DO NOT see it in task manager.

Changing topics... Are these the tags I need "-smp 8 -advmethods"?
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Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:58 pm

You appear to have run the client without any -smp flag at all to get that b4 core. I have a 550 MHz P3 laptop which runs that every now and then.

I always put -smp x last, or next to last after the other arguments/parameters, which for me always include -forceasm and -advmethods, and in the notfred versions I run it also includes -local first (which is irrelevant to you), and I always put -verbosity 9 as my last argument so it tells me as much as I can find out about what's going on without screwing up any of the other arguments/parameters if there's a problem with it not understanding that parameter. Seems like there was a client I tried once where it did screw things up some time back, and that's why I do it, but I can't remember any details now.
 
Ragnar Dan
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:24 pm

Maybe your problem with the process is that you first have to stop it from running as a service, but I haven't played with the new Windows client so I can't say much about it not showing up.
 
Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:33 pm

Ragnar Dan wrote:
Maybe your problem with the process is that you first have to stop it from running as a service, but I haven't played with the new Windows client so I can't say much about it not showing up.


Hmmm I bet this is the problem. I'm not even sure how I got it running as a service in the first place, but I think this is what's happening. I say that cause I killed the smp client, then when I kicked it back off it had shown several frames progress.

Ninja Edit: Yep that was the problem. I stopped the service and now the a3 core is running (in Windows 7 64). Finally! Thanks for the tips gentlemen.
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Flying Fox
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:00 pm

That's why I prefer running in the Command Prompt where I have total control of all the command line arguments instead of relying on those pesky shortcuts. ;)
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:20 pm

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:
Ragnar Dan wrote:
Maybe your problem with the process is that you first have to stop it from running as a service, but I haven't played with the new Windows client so I can't say much about it not showing up.


Hmmm I bet this is the problem. I'm not even sure how I got it running as a service in the first place, but I think this is what's happening. I say that cause I killed the smp client, then when I kicked it back off it had shown several frames progress.

Ninja Edit: Yep that was the problem. I stopped the service and now the a3 core is running (in Windows 7 64). Finally! Thanks for the tips gentlemen.

Ah ha! The 'All-in-one-der-Why' client bites another unsuspecting contributer in the a**. Bad client, BAD!
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Gerbil Jedidiah
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:13 pm

farmpuma wrote:
Ah ha! The 'All-in-one-der-Why' client bites another unsuspecting contributer in the a**. Bad client, BAD!


Yes indeed. Right now she's running smooth though. Given the promise of 25K PPD or more I don't mind a little frustration =)

I'm folding under 'Gerbil_Jedidiah' with this one SMP client. From what everyone has been saying I guess I have to wait for 10 WUs to turn in before the bonuses show up, so that should be by Thursday.
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:31 am

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:
farmpuma wrote:
Ah ha! The 'All-in-one-der-Why' client bites another unsuspecting contributer in the a**. Bad client, BAD!


Yes indeed. Right now she's running smooth though. Given the promise of 25K PPD or more I don't mind a little frustration =)

I'm folding under 'Gerbil_Jedidiah' with this one SMP client. From what everyone has been saying I guess I have to wait for 10 WUs to turn in before the bonuses show up, so that should be by Thursday.

IIRC it is 10 A2/A3 WUs, so if you are getting A1's you will have to wait a bit longer. Although the supply of A2's is getting low these days. ;)
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:45 am

So what's up with the A3s anyway? I've not been paying real close attention for a little while, but I'm in the midst of updating my Linux folders because a recent Ubuntu kernel upgrade seems to be causing the A2s to crash out a lot.

After upgrading to the latest Linux client, I'm getting a lot of A3s. The base PPD is rather low but there's supposedly a substantial early completion bonus, provided you register a passkey with them? I'm currently digging into this and will post an update shortly.
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:05 am

just brew it! wrote:
So what's up with the A3s anyway? I've not been paying real close attention for a little while, but I'm in the midst of updating my Linux folders because a recent Ubuntu kernel upgrade seems to be causing the A2s to crash out a lot.

After upgrading to the latest Linux client, I'm getting a lot of A3s. The base PPD is rather low but there's supposedly a substantial early completion bonus, provided you register a passkey with them? I'm currently digging into this and will post an update shortly.

Based on my very short reading:
- A2's are about to be exhausted and are unstable on WinSMP, A1's are kind of slow, so they are releasing these A3's for a wider beta testing
- -bigadv will be moved to A3's shortly
- Early bonus system: this is going to mark the return of the emphasis on finishing the WUs early rather than slower and bigger WUs with more points, a re-balancing of incentive through the points system.
- A3's are supposed to be done with threads not the multiple processes via deino/mpich which is known to be buggy. They should also be a bit more efficient.
- Eventually we should only see A3's.
- The A3's are benchmarked using an i5 as the reference platform.

Please fill in what I miss and what may be wrong above, thanks.
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:39 am

Flying Fox wrote:
Based on my very short reading:
- A2's are about to be exhausted and are unstable on WinSMP, A1's are kind of slow, so they are releasing these A3's for a wider beta testing

A2s have been marginally stable on Linux as well; as a result there have been a number of hack-ish workarounds from various people (notfred and myself included) to detect and restart hung A2 cores.

- -bigadv will be moved to A3's shortly
- Early bonus system: this is going to mark the return of the emphasis on finishing the WUs early rather than slower and bigger WUs with more points, a re-balancing of incentive through the points system.
- A3's are supposed to be done with threads not the multiple processes via deino/mpich which is known to be buggy. They should also be a bit more efficient.

Yes, it appears that A3s use a single process with multiple threads; I'm seeing this already on the systems I've upgraded. They do indeed appear to be more "efficient" in terms of pegging all of your CPU cores at 100%. It remains to be seen how efficient they are in PPD production, once the bonuses are taken into account.

- Eventually we should only see A3's.
- The A3's are benchmarked using an i5 as the reference platform.

Please fill in what I miss and what may be wrong above, thanks.

To be eligible for the bonus point system, you need to register a passkey to your e-mail address. The rationale for this system is spelled out here, and the form to obtain a passkey is here. The passkey is a unique identifier that you enter into your client configuration, in addition to your user name.
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jeffry55
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:27 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Based on my very short reading:
- A2's are about to be exhausted and are unstable on WinSMP, A1's are kind of slow, so they are releasing these A3's for a wider beta testing

A2s have been marginally stable on Linux as well; as a result there have been a number of hack-ish workarounds from various people (notfred and myself included) to detect and restart hung A2 cores.

- -bigadv will be moved to A3's shortly
- Early bonus system: this is going to mark the return of the emphasis on finishing the WUs early rather than slower and bigger WUs with more points, a re-balancing of incentive through the points system.
- A3's are supposed to be done with threads not the multiple processes via deino/mpich which is known to be buggy. They should also be a bit more efficient.

Yes, it appears that A3s use a single process with multiple threads; I'm seeing this already on the systems I've upgraded. They do indeed appear to be more "efficient" in terms of pegging all of your CPU cores at 100%. It remains to be seen how efficient they are in PPD production, once the bonuses are taken into account.

- Eventually we should only see A3's.
- The A3's are benchmarked using an i5 as the reference platform.

Please fill in what I miss and what may be wrong above, thanks.

To be eligible for the bonus point system, you need to register a passkey to your e-mail address. The rationale for this system is spelled out here, and the form to obtain a passkey is here. The passkey is a unique identifier that you enter into your client configuration, in addition to your user name.


Thanks JBI! Youare the best. :wink: Did you brew and special Holiday beer this year? :o
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JPinTO
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:25 pm

I miss-stated the PPD numbers on a i7 920. My i7 920 PPD numbers were based on HFM.net's PPD calcs which aren't working.

An OC'd i7 920 with SMP -8 is worth closer to 15-16kPPD. I'm going to flip to -BIGADV to boost the points up.

Here is a PPD calculator for A3 units. Input your frame time to see your A3 bonus points. I'm finding the A3 PPD on quad core Q9550/Q9450 marginally higher than A2. The upside is that A3 is STABLE! No babysitting required.

http://www.linuxforge.net/bonuscalc2.php

We should probably start an A3 FAQ/Sticky thread for easy reference.

- JP
 
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:34 pm

Ugh. I just got a project 6020 that is taking an hour and 16 minutes per frame. (HyperThread is off as I'd gotten an a1 core to chew on, but prob need to turn it back on now that I have an a3, correct?)

My flags are "-verbosity 9 -advmethods -bigadv -smp 8". Should I make any changes?
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:51 pm

Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:
Ugh. I just got a project 6020 that is taking an hour and 16 minutes per frame. (HyperThread is off as I'd gotten an a1 core to chew on, but prob need to turn it back on now that I have an a3, correct?)

My flags are "-verbosity 9 -advmethods -bigadv -smp 8". Should I make any changes?

May be -smp 8 spawns too many threads that are affecting the frame rate?

I have also taken a VM off UGN to test out the new Linux client. It is working on a 6021 now at ~13min/% and 0.9 day to finish. Assuming the speed is going to hold I'll need around 10 days off UGN to see the effects of the bonus points. Base on the projections so far that WU seems to be worth slightly more than say a 2669 after the bonus is included. So there will be ~10 days of low points from my new username (still under 2630 of course).
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Re: UnitedGerbilNation's drive to the Top

Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:40 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Gerbil Jedidiah wrote:
Ugh. I just got a project 6020 that is taking an hour and 16 minutes per frame. (HyperThread is off as I'd gotten an a1 core to chew on, but prob need to turn it back on now that I have an a3, correct?)

My flags are "-verbosity 9 -advmethods -bigadv -smp 8". Should I make any changes?

May be -smp 8 spawns too many threads that are affecting the frame rate?

I have also taken a VM off UGN to test out the new Linux client. It is working on a 6021 now at ~13min/% and 0.9 day to finish. Assuming the speed is going to hold I'll need around 10 days off UGN to see the effects of the bonus points. Base on the projections so far that WU seems to be worth slightly more than say a 2669 after the bonus is included. So there will be ~10 days of low points from my new username (still under 2630 of course).


Oh yeah, if HT is off I shoulda changed to SMP -4 :oops:

Edit: Yep changed it to 4 and now it's at 5 min per frame, which is still a little high, but much better than an hour+. I probably need to turn HT back on.
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If you're not folding with your idle computer time you're not part of the solution.

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