new NV work units

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new NV work units

Postposted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:50 pm

I have a Project 5509 my 8800GT 256MB is working on. FahMon says 3200 PPD. Worth 430 points.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5452
Looks like there is more things to simulate in these WUs. But less time passed in the simulation?
"This isn't due to different benchmarking or a different way to assign points, but rather we anticipate NV to be slightly less efficient with larger proteins than it has been with the smaller ones."
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:57 pm

Pegasus wrote:I have a Project 5509 my 8800GT 256MB is working on. FahMon says 3200 PPD. Worth 430 points.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=5452
Looks like there is more things to simulate in these WUs. But less time passed in the simulation?
"This isn't due to different benchmarking or a different way to assign points, but rather we anticipate NV to be slightly less efficient with larger proteins than it has been with the smaller ones."


I've seen those! My 8800 GT slows down on them too. :(
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:44 pm

Yeah, I got one or 2 of them at most, so far. At least when I'm looking. It may do that stuff other times when I don't notice, but I'm not seeing them on the EOC stats, so for present they don't bother me... much.
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:49 pm

I'm still getting about 5000ppd on my gtx 260 on these work units.
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:35 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:I'm still getting about 5000ppd on my gtx 260 on these work units.


So having more pixel shaders or stream processors helps keep from getting bogged down. Cool! 8)
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:42 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:I'm still getting about 5000ppd on my gtx 260 on these work units.


Well, that's great, but what was your ppd for the other units?
Last edited by flybywire on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:48 pm

Well it's a little more complicated than that. It depends on the unit of course. I average about 6300-6600 average (it really depends on the unit though 6200-7200)



Once again..it's not a "deduction"...it's a consequence of cold-hard math using the rules that have been in place from the beginning of the project.

When a new WU is ready to be assigned points, it is run on the reference machine. That machine has a ati 3850 in it. They let it run, and note how long it took to complete the WU. They multiply the time in days by 1500ppd to get the points the WU is worth. That's the way it has always been (well, they used to multiply by 1000ppd until they assigned the 50% bonus). So, for example, if the reference machine took exactly 24 hours to complete a WU being benchmarked, it would be worth 1500 points for all clients that run that WU from that point forward.

So, when the tiny proteins were the norm, the ati client choked on them in a cpu-starved fashion...its gpu would run 50% or less in utilization. It took additional time to complete the WU...thus the overall score assigned to each WU of that family was higher. When an nvidia client ran that same WU, it was able to run at 100% gpu utilization and destroy it...earning a very very high PPD (perhaps 5 times faster than the reference machine).

With the new proteins, the ati client is *not* cpu-bound...thus its card runs at 100% utilization. It finishes the WU relatively quickly...and a score is computed. That WU is run on an nvidia client...and now the nvidia client only runs twice as fast as the reference machine on these new proteins. Because the points are set based on the performance of the reference machine...that means that the nvidia client earns only twice the ppd of the reference machine on that particular WU.

At the end of the day, the PPD is a measure of the amount of science accomplished *IN COMPARISON TO THE REFERENCE MACHINE". It is *not* a measure of strict nano-seconds of simulation completed. Those have been the rules of the game from the beginning..this has not been some "bait and switch" routine. As I mentioned before in a previous post...the PPD gained from the tiny proteins on the nvidia clients up til now have been an inadvertent gift due to the cpu-bound condition of the ati-client on those proteins. The proper response is "thank you for the free points".
Last edited by texaslabrat on Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:16 pm

Thank you for the free points!!! :P :P
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:25 pm

These WUs on RV770 almost double ppd. It's just a LOT more atoms, which doesn't scale as well on NV and scales loads better on the 4800.

It's all about the clocks of the SPs, the number of SPs, and the complexity of the SPs. ATI has kept clocks down, kept complexity medium, and jacked the number of SPs to eleven. NV kept the SP count low, the complexity medium/high, and keeps the SP clocks way high.

So with that, you can see why things have worked the way they have so far. NV was excelling on the WUs with small numbers of atoms, since the SPs were clocked way up. This is why ATI ppd were so low, the SPs are clocked around half of NV's. These new WUs have more atoms than the NV cards can calculate all at once, so they're having to loop back through while the ATI cards have enough SPs to get it all in one pass.

So before NV was doing everything in a single super fast pass and ATI was doing one slower pass.
Now NV is looping back and doing 2 or more super fast passes while ATI still does the same pass as before.


Pande has mentioned wanting to do bigger and bigger proteins with more atoms, so while this may not make for happy NV GPU folders, the ATI guys will be happy and more math will be done, just not as many points.
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:50 pm

Which means there will be lots of upset people fairly soon. And maybe a used NV card or 2 on eBay not too long from now... :evil:

:lol:
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:35 am

Good news, just got an HD 4870 for my new system, should be folding very soon on it, but 64 bit driver support from linksys is next to nothing so internet is so far worthless on it...

Oh well, on a side thought, why don't they make everyone happy and shift all the larger wu to ATI and the smaller ones to NV? It seems like both types are distributed equally to both?
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:05 am

HurgyMcGurgyGurg wrote:Good news, just got an HD 4870 for my new system, should be folding very soon on it, but 64 bit driver support from linksys is next to nothing so internet is so far worthless on it...

NICs are dirt cheap these days. Maybe pop another NIC (with better 64-bit support) in there until Linksys gets their act together?
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Re: new NV work units

Postposted on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:36 am

just brew it! wrote:
HurgyMcGurgyGurg wrote:Good news, just got an HD 4870 for my new system, should be folding very soon on it, but 64 bit driver support from linksys is next to nothing so internet is so far worthless on it...

NICs are dirt cheap these days. Maybe pop another NIC (with better 64-bit support) in there until Linksys gets their act together?

Yeah, have to find a use for those PCI/PCIe x1 slots right? ;)
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