Good CRTs?

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Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:45 am

So this may sound like blasphemy as everyone has been creaming their pants over bigger and bigger LCD displays over the last few years and two years ago I gave in myself and upgraded to a 23" LG. I had a secondary 19" Samsung as well and after all this time I'm starting to have my doubts. Originally I didn't upgrade because I'm a hardcore gamer and the two things I enjoyed the most about CRTs over LCDs is the unbeatable response rate and contrast ratios.

Even to this day I'm still seeing these issues (ghosting, crappy contrast, seeing pixels shift). I've used a few different LCDs and I've used my friends LCDs and I've found myself regretting switching. I do enjoy having a widescreen LCD, that I will not lie about, but overall I find myself missing CRT. As expected, the CRT market has dried up and I have no idea where to go to compare new ones or even find out if there have been new ones released. So, I'm curious if anyone still lurks in this market or knows about any new technology?
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:37 am

It seems like most of the display manufacturers have abandoned CRTs. IMO, there is little reason to go with them. A quality IPS panel will rival a CRT at color accuracy, viewing angles and brightness. "Fast" TN panels are practically as any CRT monitor to the human eye.

SEDs seems to be the "holy grail" for CRT fans, but that technology is lock up in patent hell.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:17 am

complete waste of money, but $499 24" Sony Trinitron CRT on ebay. I'm sure you could find one for a better price...somewhere. Probably the best CRT monitor you can get, but it was made years ago.

I really like my BenQ FP241W. I went from 21" CRT to my dual BenQ FP241Ws... took me forever to bite the bullet and go to LCD.

I'm sure you can find an LCD (like I was able to eventually) that meets your previously high standards. The real question is how much money you want to spend.

CRT computer monitors are dead. they were dead 3 years ago.

I haven't read a lot of monitor reviews lately, but what about something like this LED LCD w/ 2ms G2G? Gameplay video on it.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:19 am

http://www.google.com/products?q=apertu ... CDwQhggoAA

Don't do it. Just do more research before you buy and get better LCD panels the next time.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:58 am

i'd keep an eye on craigslist for old flatscreen crts...maybe a trinitron or diamondtron will show up. don't expect it to be in perfect condition though.

another option might be a large-item trash day where people toss out old furniture, appliances, etc. i scored a sony e400 19" (not the good g series, but it works and it was free).

lastly, you might try a 120hz lcd...they are supposed to greatly reduce ghosting and such, but have other issues (apparently there are few color / brightness controls). older samsung and viewsonic units might still be available, but seem to have disappeared from newegg. i believe acer makes some 16:9 120hz panels though.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:03 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:http://www.google.com/products?q=aperture+grille+monitor&scoring=p&cond=1&cat=305&lnk=catsugg&ei=WO0uTOLDLYKO2ATltc2rCA&sa=X&ved=0CDwQhggoAA

Don't do it. Just do more research before you buy and get better LCD panels the next time.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226

dude, lcds still suck for gaming. at best, you just get used to ghosting but it's still there (and i had a 2ms tn panel). tn panels have other issues as well, ips is too slow. if you ever have a dark scene, you have to deal with inconsistent backlighting, backlight bleeding and blacks that are dark gray at best. larger and larger lcds suck because you need more powerful video cards to render at native resolution and have decent frames (depends on game though).
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:36 am

Krogoth wrote:A quality IPS panel will rival a CRT at color accuracy, viewing angles and brightness.

And it will completely miss the mark in terms of display refresh rate and response time.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:47 am

Bensam123 wrote:crappy contrast, seeing pixels shift
That is most likely the fact that you did not spend the $$ to get a better panel. In terms of ghosting, I do remember reading some people swearing up and down that they see it no matter what. While I don't deny such people with sensitive eyes exist, I would have to suggest that you try to let go. It may be psychological (or not, but doesn't hurt to try?).

Krogoth wrote:SEDs seems to be the "holy grail" for CRT fans, but that technology is lock up in patent hell.
It is essentially dead, Jim. :(

Cyco-Dude wrote:larger and larger lcds suck because you need more powerful video cards to render at native resolution and have decent frames (depends on game though).
Only if you buy those cheaper monitors that do not do proper aspect scaling (or use drivers that support it).

All that said, you pretty much are confined to the used market if you are looking for CRTs.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:39 am

I have a very nice 17in Viewsonic CRT (can't recall the model name but it's from more expensive pro series) that I used for about 1 year before switching to LCD. I don't know what to do with it so If you are close to Boston you are welcome to drop by and take it for something like $20. It's still with all cables in original box and should look practically new.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:46 am

I picked up a 24" Trinitron (with a Dell label on it) for free a couple months back. 1600 x 1200. I use it as my main monitor and my acer 19" widescreen LCD as a secondary. This CRT takes up a lot of desk real estate, but I love it. See if you can pick one up on Craigslist or something. I wouldn't pay more than $50 or so for it, though.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:15 am

I have a Viewsonic G220fb that you can have for free if you come and pick it up.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:41 am

Cyco-Dude wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:http://www.google.com/products?q=aperture+grille+monitor&scoring=p&cond=1&cat=305&lnk=catsugg&ei=WO0uTOLDLYKO2ATltc2rCA&sa=X&ved=0CDwQhggoAA

Don't do it. Just do more research before you buy and get better LCD panels the next time.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226

dude, lcds still suck for gaming. at best, you just get used to ghosting but it's still there (and i had a 2ms tn panel). tn panels have other issues as well, ips is too slow. if you ever have a dark scene, you have to deal with inconsistent backlighting, backlight bleeding and blacks that are dark gray at best. larger and larger lcds suck because you need more powerful video cards to render at native resolution and have decent frames (depends on game though).


Cyco-dude, did you ignore my post? which monitor did you have?

=========
what about something like this LED LCD w/ 2ms G2G? Gameplay video on it.
Last edited by computron9000 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:49 am

Keep looking at craigslist and freecycle. At least around here(Vancouver, Canada), people offer CRTs for free. They just want you to come pick it up.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:44 am

Aye, I know there is a lot of used monitors laying around. If I were to get one, it would be a 21" as my last one was a 19". I still have it, NEC MultiSync FE992. I was just wondering if there is a niche brand still manufacturing better CRT monitors.

Yes, I looked through LCD panels before I bought one. It was a trade off. Speed or picture clarity and crispness, I being a gamer, chose a TN panel instead of a IPS. I've looked at lots of different panels and played around with my friends as well. They still all have crappy contrast ratios compared to a monitor and if your eye is trained enough you can see the crystals shifting forms and it creates a water ripple effect that moves across the screen in areas that change. It is especially noticeable if entire 'slabs' of environment are shifting across it with some sort of noticeable texturing.

All of the LCDs still suffer from those inherent flaws. They seemingly stopped increasing the response time when they hit about 2ms (which is just some hyped up form of GTG and usually a lie) and the contrast ratios haven't seem to have been improving all that much either. They attempted to with dynamic contrast, but I HATE that with a passion as it messes with your eyes if you have decent eyesight and notice brightness changes. Speed and contrast are the two things I liked the most in any sort of monitor. If plasma screens were small enough and had the resolution of a LCD I'd switch to one of those.

Aperture grills and shadow mask monitors both have their ups and downs.

I was just curious if anyone was still into the technology or knew of any sources. No, I don't want you to dump your used monitors on me you wont take to the recycling plant cause it costs money. :P
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:21 am

Seriously, just buy a better LCD. You've obviously used low-quality TN LCD panels already. Read the first three posts in the message thread that I linked, then try out some of the recommendations listed there.

If all you that care about is getting the fastest possible response time, there are some 120Hz monitors designed to work with the goofy 3D shutter glasses. Those should be more than fast enough for even the most caffeine-aided twitch gamer. I don't know what models have replaced the LG Flatron L227WTG-PF in that category.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:11 pm

I don't just care about response time, hence the comment about contrast ratios. I love vivid colors as it adds to the immersion and a lot of LCDs just make things seeme washed out. My current panel is a LG Flatron L227WTG. As far as that thread's concerned I HAVE the best gaming LCD on the market and I didn't look there before buying it. I've also played games on my friends ASUS VH242H, my roomates ASUS VH226H, and my other friends ASUS VW224U.

Please before you start insulting someone and making it seem like they know absolutely nothing about what they're talking about, take time to investigate. I don't even know why I'm being ridiculed for wanting to try a CRT and asking about other peoples experiences with them after trying a LCD. LCDs aren't the be all end all.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:05 am

i hate for this thread to end this way. i don't think anyone is judging you, though.

LCDs are the end.

CRTs are dead.

Good LCDs can beat CRTs

CRTs are... DEAD.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:12 am

computron9000 wrote:Good LCDs can beat CRTs

No they can't, except for geometry and power use. They're inferior in every other way.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:47 am

Meadows wrote:
computron9000 wrote:Good LCDs can beat CRTs

No they can't, except for geometry and power use. They're inferior in every other way.

That's a bit of a stretch.

They also: Weigh less (which means they cost less to ship); take up less desk space than a CRT with equivalent display area; emit less EMI and radiation (a CRT monitor is essentially a miniature particle accelerator); don't contain several pounds of hazardous lead (CRTs are made from heavily leaded glass); aren't affected by nearby magnets, electric motors, and other sources of magnetic fields; never need to be degaussed; don't suffer from ghosting, blurring, or other analog distortions (assuming you're using DVI); and when run at native resolution generally provide a crisper image than CRTs.

That's a pretty long list of exceptions to "every other way"! :lol:
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:16 pm

Don't forget that women won't sleep with you when they see you have a CRT.

Also, modern LCDs give you much larger workspace. Size does matter with your display.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:30 pm

SpotTheCat wrote:Don't forget that women won't sleep with you when they see you have a CRT.

...unless you happen to find one that's a steampunk fan! :D
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:31 pm

This thread seems to be filled with misinformation and buyer's justifications. A good IPS comes close, but does not perfectly match a good CRT in color. A good color LCD is a bad gaming LCD, and frankly there's no such thing as a good gaming LCD. I still remember how long it took to adjust to the slowness of a 2 ms LCD. 120 HZ displays have no effect on this delay, that's something else entirely. Unfortunately since all the CRTs are old now they're faded and blurry as ****, and my desk would break under the weight of that ultimate sony CRT (75lb limit). The fact is there currently is no display that's good for both gaming and color accuracy since the death of CRTs. Our only hope is OLEDs as I believe they're capable of much higher response times.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:40 am

Didn't Sony have a line of gaming LCD's that had 0 MS Response time and virtually no input delay? I think they were 24 inch and reasonably priced.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:07 am

"The only good CRT is a dead CRT."
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:49 am

ShadowTiger wrote:LCD's that had 0 MS Response time and virtually no input delay

Physically impossible.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:50 am

Meadows wrote:
ShadowTiger wrote:LCD's that had 0 MS Response time and virtually no input delay

Physically impossible.

Not really. Rounding to the nearest relevant significant digit, it is 0.

Also, 4ms is a very, VERY short time. For reference, 1/60 of a second is 16.7ms. Compared to input lag, usually measured in frames (incriments of 16.7ms) the pixel response time is meaningless.

Stay away from TN Panels if you want IQ. Stay away from *VA panels if you want low input lag. IPS panels have the highest image quality and are second only to the nicer TN panels in overall speed. *VA panels might have fast pixel response times, but they do buffer a frame or three to get a jump on pixels that change a lot.

That said, a nice CRT is clearly superior for gaming, as long as you don't use DVI.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:28 am

just brew it! wrote:
Meadows wrote:
computron9000 wrote:Good LCDs can beat CRTs

No they can't, except for geometry and power use. They're inferior in every other way.

That's a bit of a stretch.

They also: Weigh less (which means they cost less to ship); take up less desk space than a CRT with equivalent display area; emit less EMI and radiation (a CRT monitor is essentially a miniature particle accelerator); don't contain several pounds of hazardous lead (CRTs are made from heavily leaded glass); aren't affected by nearby magnets, electric motors, and other sources of magnetic fields; never need to be degaussed; don't suffer from ghosting, blurring, or other analog distortions (assuming you're using DVI); and when run at native resolution generally provide a crisper image than CRTs.

That's a pretty long list of exceptions to "every other way"! :lol:


Agreed.

Sony Trinitron 24" flat screen (about 90 pounds, CRT). Those are a joke compared to a proper non-TN panel.

Maybe I'm just spoiled with my two BenQ FP241Ws, but I was a CRT hold-out until I got them. Cost me about $1200+ with 3 year+ warranties, no dead pixel policy on shipment... i love them.

If you ran up on a desk with two BenQ FP241Ws and a single Sony Trinitron 24" or 22". .... you'd laugh yourself to sleep if someone thought the CRT was better. and that's 3 year old tech. i can't imagine the nicer non-TN panels now for $300-$600 a piece.

i do, however, agree, about 4-6 years ago, that 1600x1200 was brilliant with the 4:3 ratio, nice hz rate (85hz or 100hz) and great edge to edge coloring. that **** was epic.

those days are gone. it's not about flashing times (hz), it's about pixel changes, brightness, contrast. and if you are interested in movies or FPS or whatever, the new monitors make the old ones seem like crap. the new drivers for graphics cards are great too.

CRTs... are DEAD
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:43 am

LCD panels don't flicker like CRTs do. I can see 60 Hz flicker; I can even see the difference between 75 Hz and 85 Hz. Anything under 85 gives me a headache, especially when the tube is displaying something bright and/or contrasty.

I'm glad that we've gotten rid of almost all of our CRTs at work because of this.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:45 am

Bensam123 wrote: I being a gamer, chose a TN panel instead of a IPS.


That was your problem right there. I have a Dell 2407 IPS panel and I bought a Dell 1908 (TN) as a secondary. The difference was night and day. The TN looked so bad beside my IPS I had to get rid of it. I've been gaming on my 2407 since...well 2007 and I've never seen ghosting. Sure, the contrast ratio is somewhat low (1000:1) but you can buyer monitors with much higher.

It's like anything. If you want quality, you have pay the $$.
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Re: Good CRTs?

Postposted on Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:13 am

just brew it! wrote:
SpotTheCat wrote:Don't forget that women won't sleep with you when they see you have a CRT.

...unless you happen to find one that's a steampunk fan! :D


Warehouse 13? :)
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