Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, SecretSquirrel, notfred
pikaporeon wrote:is it bad that I laughed at the avast bit?
ronch wrote:And yes, the OS is constantly being updated via system update.
ronch wrote:2. Disk Utility doesn't even let me check my hard disk for file system errors (because it's mounted, and I can't unmount it in the GUI... sorry, I'm not a command-line expert under Linux).
ronch wrote:1. Sometimes the touchpad quits working (and at the most inconvenient scenarios too, when I don't have a mouse).
ronch wrote:3. Vsync isn't working on the distro's media player.
ronch wrote:4. I had to wait several months before avast! antivirus started to run without requiring me to enter some sudo stuff on the command prompt.
ronch wrote:5. No defrag utility.
ronch wrote:6. Splash screen ('Ubuntu') during startup isn't displaying correctly.
ronch wrote:7. Applying 'read only' to a folder and all the subfolders/files doesn't work. The pull-down menu just abruptly disappears.
8. Files that are marked 'read only' and then copied to a flash disk causes the file to be 'read and write' enabled again. But files that have been made 'read only' during previous sessions are copied intact with their 'read only' attributes.
Skrying wrote:VLC last I tried in Ubuntu had major CPU usage issues. mplayer also has the vsync issue. Hell, vsync is a real bug that extends to not only the video player but the desktop environment. I get constant screen tearing in Ubuntu.
ronch wrote:Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu as much as the next guy, and it works well enough, IF it works at all.
Thing is, I've been using Ubuntu 9.10 previously and am now using 10.04 on my laptop and I have a few gripes. And yes, the OS is constantly being updated via system update.
1. Sometimes the touchpad quits working (and at the most inconvenient scenarios too, when I don't have a mouse).
ronch wrote:2. Disk Utility doesn't even let me check my hard disk for file system errors (because it's mounted, and I can't unmount it in the GUI... sorry, I'm not a command-line expert under Linux).
ronch wrote:3. Vsync isn't working on the distro's media player.
ronch wrote:4. I had to wait several months before avast! antivirus started to run without requiring me to enter some sudo stuff on the command prompt.
ronch wrote:5. No defrag utility.
ronch wrote:6. Splash screen ('Ubuntu') during startup isn't displaying correctly.
ronch wrote:7. Applying 'read only' to a folder and all the subfolders/files doesn't work. The pull-down menu just abruptly disappears.
ronch wrote:8. Files that are marked 'read only' and then copied to a flash disk causes the file to be 'read and write' enabled again. But files that have been made 'read only' during previous sessions are copied intact with their 'read only' attributes.
ronch wrote:Overall, this is a pretty long list of gripes. I can't believe Canonical hasn't found these bugs or haven't fixed them after 5 months of releasing 10.04. Moreover, 10.04 doesn't even work at all on my desktop. Test driving the OS just gives me a blank screen, and downloading the latest .iso (10.04.1) doesn't help either and only gets me to the Ubuntu chime (with still a blank screen).
I think Ubuntu is a great OS... IF they could iron out the quirks and make it run on ALL computers. This isn't the first time I've experienced Ubuntu not even 'test-driving' on a PC. Ubuntu and Kubuntu from 9.04 to 10.04... i've seen it several times. The OS just doesn't work.
And yes, to gain widespread acceptance you can't tell people (or me) to enter this or that at the terminal. I grew up with DOS but Linux commands seem... Greek. We could probably use it to communicate with aliens.
Also, I wish they'd step off the 6-month release schedules. Sticking to the 6-month cycle means they have to rush out the OS even when there are still a ton of bugs to weed out. I'd rather they polish the OS before releasing it. What's happening now is they keep rolling out buggy software that just turn people off in the long run. I've been using Ubuntu for the past year, but I'm now feeling Ubuntu just might be a crappy OS. And yes, apparently a lot of bugs reported in the Ubuntu site don't seem to be getting addressed.
SecretSquirrel wrote:Did you actually mean "Linux is not ready for the average Windows user"?I don't in the least bit disagree that Linux is not ready for the average computer user.
notfred wrote:SecretSquirrel wrote:Did you actually mean "Linux is not ready for the average Windows user"?I don't in the least bit disagree that Linux is not ready for the average computer user.
I've actually got both my sister and my parents running Ubuntu and they are 5 timezones and a 7 hour plane ride away. Yes, my father is computer literate but my mother is terrible, my sister is in between. All are happy with Ubuntu because it just works once setup.
Yes there are some bugs with Ubuntu (and the OP is experiencing some of them, but not all of that list are bugs) , but in comparison to the bugs I've run in to with Windows, I'll take Ubuntu every time - even without factoring in the cost. The speed of security fixes plus the ability to fix some things myself and submit patches back are just a bonus.
SecretSquirrel wrote:I think that's pretty unhelpful. If Ubuntu is asking people to "try Ubuntu", which they most surely are, then people that try Ubuntu are as justified in complaining about this or that as anyone else. And most people don't "pay" for Windows either - it comes with their computer and and they have to put in extra effort to find a computer it doesn't come on.Well, since you aren't paying for the OS, I don't know that you have any real claim to gripe about it's state.
But whose problem is that? That's the Linux Distro's problem if the Linux Disto has any intention of claiming itself to be an alternative to Windows.Part of the problem, and not picking on you here, it is rather common, is that people assume that if it doesn't behave like Windows, then it is broken or wrong.
Yep, dead on. Personally, I could not get along without Windows (I hope that changes some day), but keeping an Ubuntu computer around is very, very worthwhile. I prefer to use my Ubuntu machine when I can, but I end up using the Windows machine whenever I need to game or use CAD or graphics applicatoins. And the graphics applications for Linux suck, and it's amazing that they continue to suck as much as they do. How hard could it be to get a GNU knock-off of IrfanView up and running, or Paint.Net? And Gimp is no Photoshop alternative, no way, no how. Anyone that says so has either not used Photoshop in any serious way, or is turning a blind eye to Gimp's deficiencies. Fspot plain sucks - what a pile of crap it is. 99% of the photo editing I do is extremely simple stuff - resizing, cropping, simple color corrections, and batch processing. IrfanView is a figurative Godsend for this. GNU either needs to plagiarize it or convince Irfan to open source itAs far as the buginess goes, if you don't like it, go pay several hundred dollars for the latest version of Windows. But then you have deal with all its bugs too.
I don't in the least bit disagree that Linux is not ready for the average computer user. It isn't, and it never will be. Linux was created with a different vision. One that it foreign to the average computer user who had never done it any way other than the Microsoft way.
axeman wrote:Ext3 volumes can get pretty heavily fragmented if the disk gets very full and you have lots of large files. It does annoy me slightly that there isn't a real obvious way to deal with this - on the flip side, it's no where near as bad as NTFS. A brand new install of Windows ends up with 10% of the files fragmented or some nonsense when there is 100s of GB of free space... wtf? By contrast, you're only likely to run into noticeable performance degradation due to fragmentation on Linux in special cases, like a disk that's chock full of large video files. My biggest issue with this was a disk with a bunch of virtual machines on it that was getting quite full, causing serious performance issues when trying to run VMs. The thing is, "special cases" are more likely to occur nowadays.
bryanl wrote:been seein' those "not ready for prime time" accusations since OS/2 days - the only common factor is that 'prime time' means 'what I am familiar with'
Every software setup has its quirks, its bugs, and its way of doing things.
It seems to be only with computers that people expect the tool to adapt to them rather than take the traditional view that a craftsman knows his tools...
ronch wrote:Don't get me wrong, I love Ubuntu as much as the next guy, and it works well enough, IF it works at all.
Thing is, I've been using Ubuntu 9.10 previously and am now using 10.04 on my laptop and I have a few gripes. And yes, the OS is constantly being updated via system update.
1. Sometimes the touchpad quits working (and at the most inconvenient scenarios too, when I don't have a mouse).
2. Disk Utility doesn't even let me check my hard disk for file system errors (because it's mounted, and I can't unmount it in the GUI... sorry, I'm not a command-line expert under Linux).
3. Vsync isn't working on the distro's media player.
4. I had to wait several months before avast! antivirus started to run without requiring me to enter some sudo stuff on the command prompt.
5. No defrag utility.
6. Splash screen ('Ubuntu') during startup isn't displaying correctly.
7. Applying 'read only' to a folder and all the subfolders/files doesn't work. The pull-down menu just abruptly disappears.
8. Files that are marked 'read only' and then copied to a flash disk causes the file to be 'read and write' enabled again. But files that have been made 'read only' during previous sessions are copied intact with their 'read only' attributes.
Overall, this is a pretty long list of gripes. I can't believe Canonical hasn't found these bugs or haven't fixed them after 5 months of releasing 10.04. Moreover, 10.04 doesn't even work at all on my desktop. Test driving the OS just gives me a blank screen, and downloading the latest .iso (10.04.1) doesn't help either and only gets me to the Ubuntu chime (with still a blank screen).
I think Ubuntu is a great OS... IF they could iron out the quirks and make it run on ALL computers. This isn't the first time I've experienced Ubuntu not even 'test-driving' on a PC. Ubuntu and Kubuntu from 9.04 to 10.04... i've seen it several times. The OS just doesn't work.
And yes, to gain widespread acceptance you can't tell people (or me) to enter this or that at the terminal. I grew up with DOS but Linux commands seem... Greek. We could probably use it to communicate with aliens.
Also, I wish they'd step off the 6-month release schedules. Sticking to the 6-month cycle means they have to rush out the OS even when there are still a ton of bugs to weed out. I'd rather they polish the OS before releasing it. What's happening now is they keep rolling out buggy software that just turn people off in the long run. I've been using Ubuntu for the past year, but I'm now feeling Ubuntu just might be a crappy OS. And yes, apparently a lot of bugs reported in the Ubuntu site don't seem to be getting addressed.
bigfootape wrote:Re: your video tearing
This problem is certainly a driver issue. If you can tell us which video card your computer is using we are likely to be able to provide some advice on how to work around or eliminate the problem.
Also, VLC has known issues with certain HDA codecs. Workarounds are also available.
cheesyking wrote:RE fragmentation...
I've got some servers run ext3 file systems that have been running for 6 years and are still only 5% fragmented. Granted they aren't doing the kinds of tasks that create fragmented files (big database files are the usual cause as I understand it) but they do have GBs of data being written and deleted on them all the time. It just doesn't seem to be a problem that you need to worry about (hence no one has written a tool to deal with it)
l33t-g4m3r wrote:... but for regular desktop use, Mandriva is the best out of the box distro available.
ronch wrote:7. I still say Ubuntu (and other distros) should step out of the 6 month release cycle. If it ain't ready, don't let it out. It's that way for processors, video cards, Windows, games, etc. and Linux distros should be no different. If it needs to be delayed, delay it. I'd rather wait a bit longer for better peace of mind than get something that's available right now but messes my data up. I'm sure everyone agrees with that.
flip-mode wrote:... If you want the "when it's bug free" release mentality, that's Debian; if you want the "get it done" mentality, that's Ubuntu.
ronch wrote:3. Although the OS automatically checks the file system after a number of boots, I'd appreciate it if I can do the checks whenever I choose. Perhaps this is possible but I don't know how.
ronch wrote:5. Even if ext3 or ext4 avoids fragmenting files, there will come a time when so much data being written and deleted will eventually cause fragmentation, and that's when a defrag tool will come in handy.
ronch wrote:6. The biggest concern I'm now having, which I haven't included in my first post, is that Ubuntu doesn't work with all PCs. Even booting off the CD will cause the PC to just hang up with a blank screen that went off to sleep mode. I've tried alternative boot parameters but my desktop just doesn't run properly. This is true for Ubuntu and Kubuntu 10.04 and Linux Mint 9 KDE. My desktop uses an ATI HD5670 1GB video card. Perhaps it's the GPU or X, but I just couldn't figure it out. Canonical acknowledges this problem, and I hope they fix it because inviting people to use Ubuntu and then later finding out the OS doesn't work just makes them disappointed and paint a bad picture of the OS.
ronch wrote:7. I still say Ubuntu (and other distros) should step out of the 6 month release cycle. If it ain't ready, don't let it out. It's that way for processors, video cards, Windows, games, etc. and Linux distros should be no different. If it needs to be delayed, delay it. I'd rather wait a bit longer for better peace of mind than get something that's available right now but messes my data up. I'm sure everyone agrees with that.
ronch wrote:I'm now trying Linux Mint 9 KDE and using ext4 (instead of ext3). Some concerns, such as the vsync issue, applying read-only attributes to the folder and all subfolders/files, touchpad not working, etc. appear to be a non-issue here, but I've been running this Linux distro for only a few days now so I'm still observing it. It has its fair share of bugs/annoyances such as.
ronch wrote:1. During installation, I specified that I would be logged in automtically, but everytime the OS starts it asks for my password. Points for Ubuntu on this one.
ronch wrote:2. I configured the wireless connection manager to log in automatically to our home network, but when the OS starts it still asks me everytime for my network password. Our network password is about 16 chars long so I find it a bit irritating. Another point for Ubuntu.
ronch wrote:3. Changing the desktop effects used when switching desktkops (the cube animation is cool) causes the configuration screen (where you specify which graphical effect to use) to briefly display itself when I already closed it earlier. A bummer when showing off the OS's cool effects to other people.
ronch wrote:This is actually a nice alternative to Ubuntu, on which it's based upon. I've always wanted to try Kubuntu but for some reason some annoyances/glitches prevent me from successfully achieving it. Some reviews say Linux Mint 9 KDE is what Kubuntu should have been all along. Will try this distro for a week or two. If I find it better to live with then maybe this is it. Otherwise, perhaps Ubuntu again for me. The new version, 10.10 looks enticing but maybe the LTS is a better choice.
Dirge wrote:cheesyking wrote:RE fragmentation...
I've got some servers run ext3 file systems that have been running for 6 years and are still only 5% fragmented. Granted they aren't doing the kinds of tasks that create fragmented files (big database files are the usual cause as I understand it) but they do have GBs of data being written and deleted on them all the time. It just doesn't seem to be a problem that you need to worry about (hence no one has written a tool to deal with it)
Clearly Linux file systems live up to what has been said regarding fragmentation. I would still be concerned if my drives were maxed out space wise, but then I suppose it would be time for a bigger drive.
just brew it! wrote:flip-mode wrote:... If you want the "when it's bug free" release mentality, that's Debian; if you want the "get it done" mentality, that's Ubuntu.
I would even take that one step further: IMO the Ubuntu LTS (long term support) releases are a pretty good compromise between those two extremes. They are released at approximately the same frequency as Debian, but are nominally based on a snapshot of the Debian "testing" branch instead of the latest official Debian release. What this effectively means is that you get newer versions of everything than you'd get with the official Debian release, but fewer bugs than a regular (non-LTS) Ubuntu release.