Econobox: Question about PSU and smaller HDD

[royalsong]

Hello! First of all let me say that from what I've read.. I could kiss the person who suggested I browse this site in my efforts to build my very first computer. All the information here has been extremely helpful.

I'm building my first computer as a replacement for my very-good-to-me five-six year old Dell. She's a good ol' computer, and runs very well after I stuffed another hard drive in her and some RAM. Unfortunately, the game I play (It's world of warcraft, shh! Don't tell anyone!) is getting some nice graphical updates -- and while super awesome graphics are not very important to me -- I'd like to be able to experience the new and cool additions. And because I am the geek in my family and like to consider myself frugal.. getting a desktop that has everything I want in it sounds like a much better option to letting Dell decide what I need for the price I can afford.

Let me list for you what I would use it for:

• World of Warcraft
• Adobe Flash creations
• Graphic Design using Photoshop
• Web Design using Dreamweaver
• Video Watching
• Music Listening
• Web Surfing

So I've been eyeing the Econobox for months and I am finally ready to buy. I had a couple of questions:

The Graphics Card says "400 Watt or greater power supply recommended" but the PSU suggested in the Econobox is only 380 watt. Anything to be concerned about?

I have a separate hard drive that I keep my data on already. I was going to take this out of my Dell and put it in my new box. I really don't need a 1TB HHD just for the OS and programs. But when you tell people: Hey, I need a smaller Hard Drive.. they stare at you like you're crazy. Smaller HDD = smaller price. I'm taking the advice listed here and going with 4gb of RAM.. which bumps the price up. A cheaper hard drive offsets this nicely. Would appreciate any suggestions you have for a HDD smaller then 500gb. (I was eyeing this, if it makes any difference).

and just as an FYI: I have already bought an OEM copy of Win7 Home Professional 64bit.

Any advice and suggestions you have are much appreciated!

[mmmmmdonuts21]

The Graphics Card says "400 Watt or greater power supply recommended" but the PSU suggested in the Econobox is only 380 watt. Anything to be concerned about?

I am assuming you are talking about the Radeon 5670, which is the GPU in the Econobox? That power supply should be able to handle that system, assuming your not going to heavily overclock it, and have ten hard drives and a 10 fans going. With the graphics card though, I would seriously consider waiting about a week before you buy this system because AMD is releasing new cards late this week/early next week so we should see a shift in GPU prices.

Smaller HDD = smaller price

While this is generally true, you also want to consider that a denser HDD runs faster than a less dense one (especially as the drive gets filled). Also you may want to consider price per gb as a good measure of cost as well. The HDD you linked has a price/gb of over $0.13, which is very high (most are around 6-8 cents now). While you may not need the space now, you may need it in six years like you did on your old computer (and who knows what games will come out in that time that you will want, I got over 100gb of games on my steam account alone).

[emorgoch]

With the graphics card though, I would seriously consider waiting about a week before you buy this system because AMD is releasing new cards late this week/early next week so we should see a shift in GPU prices.

The cards coming out are high-end enthusiast cards, targeting the $300+ market. I wouldn't expect them to have any price effect on sub-$200 cards. Following general release cycles for graphic cards, it will probably be able 3 months before a new card is released that will effect the pricing of the 5670.

[Flying Fox]

With the graphics card though, I would seriously consider waiting about a week before you buy this system because AMD is releasing new cards late this week/early next week so we should see a shift in GPU prices.

The cards coming out are high-end enthusiast cards, targeting the $300+ market. I wouldn't expect them to have any price effect on sub-$200 cards. Following general release cycles for graphic cards, it will probably be able 3 months before a new card is released that will effect the pricing of the 5670.

If they are positioning the 6850/6870 at the 5770/5830 segment, then it would not be $300+. That is supposed to be reserved for the 6970.

Bottomline: it is too close for that release to not wait. Just 2 more days.

Regarding the HDD. I would have suggested the 500GB Black but since you have bought the drive I guess you are stuck with it. The drive itself should not be bad, but considering the OS and apps, your work files would have to be relatively small to not fill up the drive.

[royalsong]

I haven't yet bought anything - sorry if I was unclear. The only things I own are the copy of my OS and a second HDD I'm recycling from the old desktop. One that stores stuff like images, video, audio, etc. I'm still looking for a new drive to run the OS and programs on.

Is this what you were speaking about, Flying Fox?

Thanks for the advice on holding off to buy the GPU!

[JustAnEngineer]

For gaming, more memory and a better graphics card would improve your experience compared to the basic Econobox configuration. Consider some of these components:

Processor
$121 -20 combo AMD Athlon II X4 645 quad-core 3.1 GHz socket-AM3 processor with HSF

Motherboard
$ 94 Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 ATX 870+SB850+USB3 socket-AM3 motherboard
or $110 -11 code "MBTEN19" Asus M4A87TD Evo ATX 870+SB850+USB3 socket-AM3 motherboard

Memory
$ 69 -10 MIR 2x2 GiB PC3-10600 Mushkin Silverline 996585 (DDR3-1333, CAS 9, 1.5V)

Graphics
$160 GeForce GTX 460 768MB

Storage
$50 -12 code "EMCZYZR32" ½ TB Hitachi HDS721050CLA362

[royalsong]

For gaming, more memory and a better graphics card would improve your experience compared to the basic Econobox configuration. Consider some of these components:

Graphics
$160 GeForce GTX 460 768MB

That pushes me outside my budget. Will the Sapphire Radeon HD 5670 not handle wow graphics well? It's not a graphic intensive game, and right now (on a single-core 3gb ram 6 year old machine) I run it on the minimum settings and manage to keep from lagging too much. I guess, in the future I might want to play different games - but upgrading is always an option - right?

The price of that hard drive is awesome though! Thanks for pointing it out.

[OneArmedScissor]

So you're keeping the same monitor, which is probably something like 1280x1024 resolution? If so, that doesn't call for much.

Resolution is important. People here will just assume you are using a new 1920x1200 monitor for gourd knows what reason, but that's very close to double the amount of pixels, and about as much more work for the video card to handle. In other words, there's not much reason to splurge on a bigger and better card without monitor to match it.

[Flying Fox]

@OP: Yes that is the WD 500GB Black that I was referring to.

Also is your old hard drive PATA or SATA? You might as well list the current config.

[JustAnEngineer]

For gaming, more memory and a better graphics card would improve your experience compared to the basic Econobox configuration. Consider some of these components:
$160 GeForce GTX 460 768MB

That pushes me outside my budget. Will the Sapphire Radeon HD 5670 not handle WoW graphics well? It's not a graphic intensive game.

While World of Warcraft is a relatively primitive game, graphically, you'd probably like to have enough graphics processing to enjoy other games. The GeForce GTX 460 performs decently at reasonable resolutions with any game currently on the market, and it's likely to do well with any new games coming out in the next year and a half.

Let's compare those suggestions to the Econobox. I listed a 3% faster CPU for $1 more, a suitable motherboard for $11 or $16 less, twice as much memory for $14 more and half as much hard-drive for $37 less. If we add that $38 of savings to the $83 cost of the Radeon HD5670, We're only $39 short of the price of the GeForce GTX 460. Maybe we can squeeze some of that out of the remaining components.

Do you already have a Blu-ray or DVD drive that you could re-use? That would save $23.

Maybe we can find a cheaper case + power supply solution than the $111 total for Antec Three Hundred + Earthwatts EA-380D listed in the Econbox build.
$85 Antec Six Hundred + BFG GS-550
or $91 Antec Three Hundred + Earthwatts EA-380D
There's another $20 or $26 saved.

If you really don't want to spend the $160 for the GeForce GTX 460, you could get a Radeon HD5770 1GB for $140 -20 combo +7½ shipping -10 MIR.

Resolution is important. People here will just assume you are using a new 1920x1200 monitor.

The most likely resolution for a new monitor or television purchase is 1920x1080.

[Flying Fox]

Resolution is important. People here will just assume you are using a new 1920x1200 monitor.

The most likely resolution for a new monitor or television purchase is 1920x1080.

But the OP had an old Dell, so may be the monitor is not that big with that high resolution.

[Voldenuit]

JAE is on point. Take advantage of his savings over the econobox and put them into getting a better GPU. That GTX 460 768 MB is pretty much the best price/performance card worth gaming on at the moment (the 5670 is cheaper, but will bog down heavily on anything other than WoW). It's going to give you more options when gaming than the inconsequential nickles and dimes the other components will (CPU, HDD, RAM, Case).\

Another good budget option is to get a 5750 and overclock it (some gambling involved) - this is generally seen as better value than a straight 5770.

EDIT: Powercolor has a 1 GB 5750 @ $125-15 MIR so maybe the 5770 at $140-20-10 is the better bet.

[Flying Fox]

Based on the OP's stated use gaming may not be a major part of it. In that case it may be a bit tough to justify a higher end card. That said, we seriously need to know what his current monitor resolution is, or any upgrade plans for that in the near future.

[Voldenuit]

Based on the OP's stated use gaming may not be a major part of it. In that case it may be a bit tough to justify a higher end card. That said, we seriously need to know what his current monitor resolution is, or any upgrade plans for that in the near future.

Spending $100-110 for a 5750/5770 instead of $80 for a 5670 is a big jump in performance and is a no-brainer. Although MIRs taking the 5670 to $65 are available, which makes the choice harder.

[JustAnEngineer]

GeForce GTX 460 prices might be lowered after Radeon HD6850 is released.

[royalsong]

Ah, I'm sorry. I should have considered monitor size as part of the equation.

My monitor is not yet a year old and supports a 1920x1080 resolution. BUT.. I don't play WoW at full screen. I get motion sickness at the drop of a hat and I also do a lot of stuff out of game while it's running as well (surfing, instant messaging, etc). If that's important at all.

The data drive that I will be recycling into the new system is this one.

I plan to pass my current desktop off to my little nephew, he's just started 4th grade and his mom only has an ancient desktop that's about to fall apart at the seems. So, short of the hard drive I'm recycling.. it's important for it to keep it's other parts. I'll be keeping my keyboard and mouse, though.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions, especially JustAnEngineer!

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention this yesterday. JustAnEngineer, you linked to a listing of GPUs that range in prices. Were you looking at a specific card, or suggesting any of those GPUs would fit the bill?

[JustAnEngineer]

When funds are tight, you choose the brand and model that fits into the budget. Any of the GeForce GTX 460 cards would perform very well for you at 1920x1080 resolution. The differences between brands on this relatively new card are still minor, other than the large difference between the cheaper 768 MiB version and the more expensive 1 GiB version.

If your budget can't stretch to include the $160 GeForce GTX 460 768MB, then a Radeon HD5770 would be the next-lower card in price and performance. At around $120, it's not as good a value in terms of bang for the buck, but if that's what your budget allows, it is still a much better card for gaming than Radeon HD5670.

[Flying Fox]

With the rumours of the 1GiB 460 getting a price cut to counter Barts tomorrow, I will definitely wait it out a bit and see after the dust settles.

[royalsong]

So taking the suggestions here.. this is what I've come up with:

• Motherboard: ASUS M4A87TD EVO($109.99)
• GPU: MSI N460GTX Cyclone 768D5/OC GeForce GTX 460 ($164.99)
• Case: Antec Three Hundred Case ($84.94 combo)
  Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D
• Processor: AMD Athlon II X4 645 Propus($172.98 combo)
  Memory: Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 4GB
• HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB($44.99)
• Optical: SAMSUNG DVD Burner ($19.99)

Puts me at $610.54 with shipping.. which is a tad more then I wanted to spend.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to take advantage of the Mobo+Win7 combo that JustAnEngineer suggested because I already own a copy of Win7..

Everything look alright? Any last minute suggestions, other then I wait to see if that GPU goes down?

[JustAnEngineer]

Newegg changes their combo deals frequently.

This CPU + motherboard combo for the M4A87TD Evo and the Athlon II X4 645 has the same savings as the CPU + memory combo listed above. You could then choose some slightly cheaper PC3-10600 memory: here or here (assuming that you don't value the mail-in rebate on the Silverline RAM). An even better option would be to switch to this CPU + motherboard combo with the GA-870A-UD3 and the Athlon II X4 640. You give up 3% processor speed for $34 in savings.

The Sparkle GeForce GTX460 would be $8 less out of pocket than the model that you selected, but it doesn't have the $20 mail-in rebate that MSI is offering.

You should choose a hard-drive with more than 8 MB of cache. The 320 GB Western Digital WD3200AAKS Caviar Blue/SE16 is as low as I would go, but you can get the larger and faster 500 GB version for just $1 more.

Here's an updated component list:
$100 AMD Athlon II X4 640 quad-core 3.0 GHz socket-AM3 processor with HSF
$ 94 -17 combo Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 ATX 870+SB850+USB3 socket-AM3 motherboard
$ 65 2x2 GiB PC3-10600 Mushkin Essentials 996586 (DDR3-1333, CAS 9, 1.5V)
$160 GeForce GTX 460 768MB
$ 44 500 GB Western Digital WD5000AAKS Caviar Blue/SE16
$ 17 Sony Optiarc AD-7260S DVD-RW
$ 85 Antec Six Hundred + BFG GS-550
======
$504 (Newegg) + 44 (Directron), delivered. That's just $6 more than the default Econobox configuration, and it will run circles around it in games at 1920x1080 resolution with anti-aliasing enabled.

[royalsong]

JustAnEngineer, you're just absolutely awesome at this. I really appreciate all your advice and effort ^_^

I think I'm set, those new suggestions give me a price I'm very happy with (heck I already bought that 500gb HDD). I'm super excited to start buying my components and building my first system!

[FuturePastNow]

Graphics cards significantly overstate their power supply requirements because there are a lot of low-quality underperforming power supplies out there, and the graphics card maker doesn't know what you are using.

If you've got a good PSU, you can get by with a lower rating. For example, the new Radeon 6850 "requires" a 500W power supply, but I would be perfectly comfortable using it with my 400W Corsair.

[royalsong]

So.. I bought the configuration that JustAnEngineer suggested.

The BFG GS-550 PSU in that combo scares the living daylights out of me. It's 'deactivated' on newegg and the reviews speak of it poorly.

I'm unsure whether to even try putting it together in there.. if i do and things go poorly:

1. I will need to buy a new PSU: any suggestions?
2. What's the chances of it frying my other components?

[JustAnEngineer]

The reviews average 4 out of 5 eggs. Yes, BFG went out of business after NVidia denied them access to GPUs. That's probably the biggest reason for the very negative reviews. All brands of power supply have failures. The difference with this one is that it is an orphan, so you won't be able to RMA it to BFG if it fails.

If the power supply works on the first go, it's likely to last a year or more. The system that you've put together shouldn't challenge the power supply to run at more than half of its claimed capacity.

If you do need to buy a new power supply, look for an 80+% efficient model from SeaSonic, Enermax, Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, etc. The Antec Earthwatts EA-500D is one reasonably priced example.