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Obsidian wrote:

BlackStar wrote:

Console port, so no.

I'm actually serious. Oblivion was more or less identical on the PC/Xbox360, which makes sense given the (then) constraints and novelty of the platform.

I expect Skyrim to look better than Oblivion but not by much. Most of the improvements will be artistic, rather than technical (think Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect). The PC version will likely have better textures (targeting 1GB cards on the high end, instead of 256MB for the Xbox360) but the geometry will most likely be identical on DX9/DX10 hardware. At best, they might add a DX11 path with overblown tessellation that will probably look like **** and kill performance (like every game that overdoes tessellation) but, hey, DX11!

I just hope they fix character animations. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout3, all sucked in that department.

SecretMaster wrote:

khands wrote:

I upgraded from a GeForce 5200 to a 6600GT for Oblivion, you sure it was the 7000 series that had just come out? Also, Skyrim apparently won't be using Gamebryo, so it will most definitely be a visual upgrade from Oblivion.

Yep. Oblivion came out in March of 2006. TR's review for the GeForce 7600 and 7900 were March 9th 2006, the X1900XTX was January 2006.

The first test of Oblivion as far as I can tell came in May:

I guess you're right, it seems like it was longer ago.

BlackStar wrote:

I'm actually serious. Oblivion was more or less identical on the PC/Xbox360, which makes sense given the (then) constraints and novelty of the platform.

I expect Skyrim to look better than Oblivion but not by much. Most of the improvements will be artistic, rather than technical (think Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect). The PC version will likely have better textures (targeting 1GB cards on the high end, instead of 256MB for the Xbox360) but the geometry will most likely be identical on DX9/DX10 hardware. At best, they might add a DX11 path with overblown tessellation that will probably look like **** and kill performance (like every game that overdoes tessellation) but, hey, DX11!

I just hope they fix character animations. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout3, all sucked in that department.

Oh come on. It's quite possible the PC will receive a significantly greater leap in quality than the console versions will. And what does "overblown tessellation" even MEAN? Tessellation is mostly used to make overly polygonal models more smooth and natural. Do you like having your models having visible seams and angles where there should be none?

You guys can complain all day with nothing to justify it. I'm psyched. The screenshots look great, the info looks great. ES:V is going to be awesome and I have no doubt they will improve over Oblivion in most spheres. I'm sure the animation will be fine. Maybe not perfect, but good enough for all but the shallowest graphics whores.

http://www.gamefront.com/we-the-spoiled-gamers/

No matter how promising a game looks, no matter how prestigious the developer pedigree, it's always complaining and negativity. It's exhausting.

SecretMaster wrote:

I don't know to be honest.

I was rocking integrated graphics at the time, and I remember lusting after an overclocked evga 7800GTX so I could play Oblivion.

BlackStar wrote:

Console port, so no.

Is it known if they're developing it for the console? I was hoping they'd build it for the PC and then dumb it down to run on consoles, it'd satisfy both camps if done like this; PC dudes get their sweet graphics, and console dudes get a playable game. Then again, I'm no developer and I have no idea if going from PC to Console is harder than doing things the other way around.

Anyway, I'm for sure gonna buy this game, and I'll probably enjoy it, it'd just be nice if it were prettier than most current games.

Grape Flavor wrote:

BlackStar wrote:

I'm actually serious. Oblivion was more or less identical on the PC/Xbox360, which makes sense given the (then) constraints and novelty of the platform.

I expect Skyrim to look better than Oblivion but not by much. Most of the improvements will be artistic, rather than technical (think Mass Effect 2 vs Mass Effect). The PC version will likely have better textures (targeting 1GB cards on the high end, instead of 256MB for the Xbox360) but the geometry will most likely be identical on DX9/DX10 hardware. At best, they might add a DX11 path with overblown tessellation that will probably look like **** and kill performance (like every game that overdoes tessellation) but, hey, DX11!

I just hope they fix character animations. Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout3, all sucked in that department.

Oh come on. It's quite possible the PC will receive a significantly greater leap in quality than the console versions will. And what does "overblown tessellation" even MEAN? Tessellation is mostly used to make overly polygonal models more smooth and natural. Do you like having your models having visible seams and angles where there should be none?

I'm talking about stuff like this:


Which, honestly, looks like ****. Just look at those cobblestones, they are overblown to hell and back. Now imagine a cart or a horse going down that road... yeah.

Is it known if they're developing it for the console? I was hoping they'd build it for the PC and then dumb it down to run on consoles, it'd satisfy both camps if done like this; PC dudes get their sweet graphics, and console dudes get a playable game. Then again, I'm no developer and I have no idea if going from PC to Console is harder than doing things the other way around.

Anyway, I'm for sure gonna buy this game, and I'll probably enjoy it, it'd just be nice if it were prettier than most current games.

Noone knows, but considering that Oblivion's interface was completely console-centric, I think we can reasonably guess how Bethesda works. It's generally less work to develop on the more limited system first (console) and then port to the more capable one (PC).

BlackStar wrote:

I'm talking about stuff like this:


Which, honestly, looks like **** Just look at those cobblestones, they are overblown to hell and back. Now imagine a cart or a horse going down that road... yeah.

Yeah, that's terrible. I forgot about that. But thankfully I don't know of any actual game that abuses tessellation in such a manner.

I'm talking about stuff like this:

Tech demos? Am I to infer that you've never actually observed "overblown tesselation" in an actual game, actually?

SPOOFE wrote:

I'm talking about stuff like this:

Tech demos? Am I to infer that you've never actually observed "overblown tesselation" in an actual game, actually?

Implying that Oblivion wasn't a glorified tech demo. Thank god for mods that actually provided some content.

And yes, there are games that abuse tessellation. HAWX 2, for instance.

BlackStar wrote:

SPOOFE wrote:

I'm talking about stuff like this:

Tech demos? Am I to infer that you've never actually observed "overblown tesselation" in an actual game, actually?

Implying that Oblivion wasn't a glorified tech demo. Thank god for mods that actually provided some content.

And yes, there are games that abuse tessellation. HAWX 2, for instance.

Oblivion has nothing to do with tessellation. It uses DX9. I guess you just wanted to rip Oblivion there. Hey, I played Oblivion for 110 hours without any mods, at very poor GFX quality, and I was plenty entertained. I'm planning to do a second, maxed-out and ultra-modded playthrough one of these days, too.

I don't dispute that tessellation can be abused, but I wouldn't worry about it. Bethesda knows what they're doing and I am confident that Skyrim won't disappoint on either the visual or gameplay front. These guys read the forums and stuff, I'm sure they are well aware of the criticisms leveled at (unmodded) Oblivion and will learn from them.

Grape Flavor wrote:

Oblivion has nothing to do with tessellation.

Duh.

Random interesting tidbit: Morrowind supported tessellation (TruForm) back in 2002. It looked much better with it but it killed performance. The reason why it looked so good, was that it was ubiquitous but understated - I just hope they manage to exhibit the same self-restraint in Skyrim.

Hey, I played Oblivion for 110 hours without any mods, at very poor GFX quality, and I was plenty entertained. I'm planning to do a second, maxed-out and ultra-modded playthrough one of these days, too.

Good for you. I found stock Oblivion empty, boring and uninspired in comparison to Morrowind. The story sucked, the leveling system sucked, the dungeons sucked, the fetch/kill/guard quests sucked. The only good part was the Brotherhood storyline.

I replayed it 3 years later with about twenty mods and the experience was much better, mainly due to the lack of leveled mobs.

I don't dispute that tessellation can be abused, but I wouldn't worry about it. Bethesda knows what they're doing and I am confident that Skyrim won't disappoint on either the visual or gameplay front. These guys read the forums and stuff, I'm sure they are well aware of the criticisms leveled at (unmodded) Oblivion and will learn from them.

I'm not so sure. They are planning to keep leveled mobs, despite the deep-rooted issues with them. Or did the developers actually enjoy loss of power in level-ups and gold-plated highway demon robbers and super mutants in random encounters?

Environment graphics will probably be pretty good, but I'll reserve judgment for character animations until I see them (it's 2011 and they still haven't managed to create a single decent animation system till now).

I believed the mob leveling will be toned down and more Fallout like.

khands wrote:

I believed the mob leveling will be toned down and more Fallout like.

I think they've actually said as much in one of their interviews, not sure where.

I liked Oblivion, a lot, but the leveling thing was indeed stupid. No one had to tell me, by the time I reached a high level bandits wore Daedric armor and every animal was a Minotaur, so it was pathetically obvious what the game had been doing. That kind of thing hurts immersion.

I hope they make it like Francesco's Mod - some leveling but much better implemented. Clearly some people want it to be like OOO but let's face it, that is just way too hardcore for the vanilla release of a modern multiplatform game. It would hurt sales.

Implying that Oblivion wasn't a glorified tech demo.

More FUD. Please define the standard by which Oblivion was merely a "glorified tech demo" that doesn't also include, oh, every other video game ever made.

And yes, there are games that abuse tessellation. HAWX 2, for instance.

But nothing to support your baseless Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt about Skyrim. Fail.

Tell me more about how graphical updates and tweaks to mob leveling fixed the horrible story for you.

SPOOFE wrote:

Tell me more about how graphical updates and tweaks to mob leveling fixed the horrible story for you.

Horrible? If you don't like to murder and steal (i.e. you're weird), well, average maybe. Horrible is a bit harsh.

SPOOFE wrote:

Implying that Oblivion wasn't a glorified tech demo.

More FUD. Please define the standard by which Oblivion was merely a "glorified tech demo" that doesn't also include, oh, every other video game ever made.

Oblivion was a glorified tech demo, because it focused on technology rather than substance. A large, pretty world that was mostly devoid of content. An utterly forgettable storyline consisting solely of fetch/kill/protect quests (assassin PCs excepted). Bland dungeons and locations that served as nothing but (random) filler. Character conversations that were cringe-worthy and glitchy (why the hell is this Bruma beggar offering Chorrol gossip?) An unbalanced, ill-thought out level system. A useless GUI (on the PC).

It's as if they worked on graphics for 32 months and then suddenly realized they had 4 months to cram in the actual game content. Compared to Morrowind, Oblivion is a step back in almost all departments other than graphics.

Tell me more about how graphical updates and tweaks to mob leveling fixed the horrible story for you.

There are mods that offer interesting storylines and quests. You know, stuff that tends to be the bread and meat of RPGs - and which was sorely missing in stock Oblivion.

Plus, Francesco's Mod converted the game from a disaster to something quite playable.

Oblivion was a glorified tech demo, because it focused on technology rather than substance. A large, pretty world that was mostly devoid of content.

Except there have been numerous assertions from various parties in this thread alone that they enjoyed the game's content. Selective illiteracy much?

An utterly forgettable storyline consisting solely of fetch/kill/protect quests (assassin PCs excepted).

Unlike the riveting, compelling narrative with unforgettable twists and turns and nonstop action found in... Super Mario Bros.?

Character conversations that were cringe-worthy and glitchy (why the hell is this Bruma beggar offering Chorrol gossip?)

A completely unique facet in the gaming world. No other game has had lame voice acting. Not one. Ever.

I think you just plain didn't like the game. That's fair. Your hyperbole, however, is silly and trite.

SPOOFE wrote:

Oblivion was a glorified tech demo, because it focused on technology rather than substance. A large, pretty world that was mostly devoid of content.

Except there have been numerous assertions from various parties in this thread alone that they enjoyed the game's content. Selective illiteracy much?

So what? Personally, I enjoy Mystic Quest very much. This doesn't mean that the game doesn't suck.

An utterly forgettable storyline consisting solely of fetch/kill/protect quests (assassin PCs excepted).

Unlike the riveting, compelling narrative with unforgettable twists and turns and nonstop action found in... Super Mario Bros.?

I thought we were talking about the Elder Scrolls series and RPGs in general? You are off-topic.

Character conversations that were cringe-worthy and glitchy (why the hell is this Bruma beggar offering Chorrol gossip?)

A completely unique facet in the gaming world. No other game has had lame voice acting. Not one. Ever.

I couldn't care less about voice acting. I'm talking about low-quality writing and characters conversing about topics that they simply cannot know about. The former is shoddy game design. The latter is shoddy programming.

I think you just plain didn't like the game. That's fair. Your hyperbole, however, is silly and trite.

What I dislike is the gradual decline of quality Bethesda games. Open-ended RPGs are few and far between, so this matters to us gamers who enjoy this kind of game. I pointed out what I thought was wrong with Oblivion. I hope that Skyrim doesn't repeat all of those mistakes.

Everything else is a result of you not taking the time to read my posts before hitting "reply".

So what? Personally, I enjoy Mystic Quest very much. This doesn't mean that the game doesn't suck.

Was Mystic Quest a tech demo?

I thought we were talking about the Elder Scrolls series and RPGs in general? You are off-topic.

Nice dodge. I made a simple request: "Please define the standard by which Oblivion was merely a "glorified tech demo" that doesn't also include, oh, every other video game ever made." What is Super Mario Bros.? One of every other video game ever made. On-topic.

I couldn't care less about voice acting.

You brought it up. Do try to keep your frothing bile straight.

I'm talking about low-quality writing and characters conversing about topics that they simply cannot know about.

Again, completely unique in the world of video games. No other game features this quality.

Is it really so difficult to believe that people can enjoy a game despite its flaws? It's not like you're the only one that sees it. It's just, despite your insistence that you "couldn't care less", you seem to be among the few that cares so passionately about it as to launch into hysterics on a message board over it.

What I dislike is the gradual decline of quality Bethesda games.

It's a shame when people dislike imaginary things. Bethesda games have seen amazing improvement since at least Daggerfall. Maybe Arena realy was just the crown jewel of videogamedom, in which case you'd have a point. But have you ever played Redguard? ::sigh:: Kids these days.

I pointed out what I thought was wrong with Oblivion.

You called it a tech demo, and now you're wriggling to avoid expounding on that assertion. I don't know why. If it really is a tech demo - unlike every other game in existence - it should be easy for you to explain why. Instead you've just vomited out a list of things about the game you didn't like, which would be valid if I had asked you what you didn't like about the game. But I didn't ask you that. I don't care what you didn't like about the game; as I suspected, your list is about the same as mine. Yet I'm not running around calling it a tech demo or other such impassioned nonsense.

I thought we were talking about the Elder Scrolls series and RPGs in general? You are off-topic.

Nice dodge. I made a simple request: "Please define the standard by which Oblivion was merely a "glorified tech demo" that doesn't also include, oh, every other video game ever made." What is Super Mario Bros.? One of every other video game ever made. On-topic.

I'm not going to repeat myself. Go back and re-read my posts.

I couldn't care less about voice acting.

You brought it up. Do try to keep your frothing bile straight.

I haven't mentioned voice acting at all. Go back and re-read my posts.

(Hint: I talked about "cringe-worthy and glitchy conversations", not "voice actors". Reading comprehension helps sometimes.)

I'm talking about low-quality writing and characters conversing about topics that they simply cannot know about.

Again, completely unique in the world of video games. No other game features this quality.

This doesn't excuse Oblivion.

Is it really so difficult to believe that people can enjoy a game despite its flaws? It's not like you're the only one that sees it.

I enjoyed Oblivion after installing a number of mods.

I pointed out what I thought was wrong with Oblivion.

You called it a tech demo, and now you're wriggling to avoid expounding on that assertion. I don't know why. If it really is a tech demo - unlike every other game in existence - it should be easy for you to explain why.

Go back and re-read my posts, young troll. The first paragraph explains why I liken Oblivion to a tech demo: heavy on graphics, light on content. It's that simple, really.

NSFW because of one loud word. Funny.

Jeremy Soule just won't get rid of that motif now will he? Not that I'm complaining, the music was excellent in Morrowind and Oblivion.

I'm just going to hope Bethesda doesn't leave the beta testing to the end-users again. Not that someone won't eventually fix it up with a mod though.

If they stick with the fallout level scaling that ought to be good; I always resented never feeling like I made progress as I leveled. I'd actually be 100% OK with NO level scaling at all but it doesn't look like it'll happen.
Here's to 11/11/11

As more and more information is released, I really am on the fence with this game, although I still have eager anticipation. The game looks more and more to be a blend of Oblivion, Morrowind, and Daggerfall. I'm still not sold on certain aspects, but there do seem to be better improvements and such. For starters, the entire world is hand-crafted which is loads better than Oblivion's random generated world.

I don't know how many of you people actually played Daggerfall, but I have played it a small amount. I never got very far because its so old, but the character creation system was really good and it makes me sad that they keep dumbing it down.

The only thing that really matters in Skyrim is how easy it is to mod. I probably will not buy Skyrim until the GOTY edition is released, and by that time there should be enough mods to make my experience more enjoyable. Better textures, redone faces, new outfits, rebalanced monsters, lots of stuff can be done to fix any flaws in the game.

Also, I usually make my own mods as well. For example, I created my own level up system in Oblivion and changed the way stealth and arrows worked. If they make it easier to mod than Oblivion then I will have lots of fun with the game.

ShadowTiger wrote:

I don't know how many of you people actually played Daggerfall, but I have played it a small amount. I never got very far because its so old, but the character creation system was really good and it makes me sad that they keep dumbing it down.

The only thing that really matters in Skyrim is how easy it is to mod. I probably will not buy Skyrim until the GOTY edition is released, and by that time there should be enough mods to make my experience more enjoyable. Better textures, redone faces, new outfits, rebalanced monsters, lots of stuff can be done to fix any flaws in the game.

Also, I usually make my own mods as well. For example, I created my own level up system in Oblivion and changed the way stealth and arrows worked. If they make it easier to mod than Oblivion then I will have lots of fun with the game.

Daggerfall was one of my fondest memories as a 6 year old kid I still have the Original CD, Box, Manual, and Strategy Guide. And yeah, the character creation system was absolutely phenomenal. I've never seen a better implemented one in another game.

Did it launch already ? Looking forward to it.

1azydc wrote:

Did it launch already ? Looking forward to it.

Coming out 11/11/11

E3 starts on Monday, and there is going to be a plethora of new info on Skyrim. Should be good

So if anyone hasn't seen, there are two showings of the Skyrim demo from E3. There will be a third later today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQENnvkcC7I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic6dKnv3WdU

The game certainly does look good, but I'm still extremely dubious. From the two videos I'm getting the impression that Skyrim is a dressed up Oblivion. I think there is some good potential and steps forward from what we've seen, but I'm starting to get suspicions that it will turn into another let down. When they were showing the dungeon bits, the only thing going through my mind was how identical it looked to an Oblivion dungeon crawl.

Then there is also this tidbit:

http://www.gamersmint.com/bethesda-cons ... accessible

I'm not really surprised that they flat out admitted the game was designed for consoles, that is the target demographic that draws in the most money. Still it is disappointing. What really strikes me as a slap in the face was this quote:

“We wanted to take it and make it really accessible,” the producer said.“… We still have the complexity behind the scenes, but we wanted to make it so that you could pick up the controller and play and it was easy; the average person could get into it…We knew we wanted to make the user interface a little bit more open and available … get away from the stats and things like that.”

I think that speaks volumes on its own. I understand their goal is to get as many sales possible, but when you start to crap on your original fanbase which made you popular it is disheartening. Time will tell of course.

SecretMaster wrote:

I think that speaks volumes on its own. I understand their goal is to get as many sales possible, but when you start to crap on your original fanbase which made you popular it is disheartening. Time will tell of course.

I'm usually not biased when it comes to games being designed for PC or consoles but this is one franchise that deserves to be designed specifically for the PC first then fitted to be ported over to consoles.