Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, Steel, notfred
mmmmmdonuts21 wrote:Great video notfred. Put a smile on my face this snowy morning.
On another thought though, countries (and organizations) throughout the world need to stop waiting for the last minute to do things that are inevitable. We knew in the 90's the explosive force of the internet, and that IP addresses would be used up in 15-20 years. What would have been a much easier change back then is now going to be a much harder, costlier and longer process than it needed to be.
I know now I am just ranting but the same thing is going to happen with oil whenever that runs out. I understand that markets drive the cost and development but at the same time I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture once and a while, and not wait till it's to late and then half ass a solution.
Sorry for my morning rant.
mmmmmdonuts21 wrote:I believe that you've described how the majority of businesses and organizations are run. The people in charge are in it for short term gain. They'll let someone else worry about the long-term mess that they leave behind.On another thought though, countries (and organizations) throughout the world need to stop waiting for the last minute to do things that are inevitable. We knew... What would have been a much easier change back then is now going to be a much harder, costlier and longer process than it needed to be... the same thing is going to happen... I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture once and a while, and not wait till it's to late and then half ass a solution.
Captain Ned wrote:Is there any real remaining reason why the Multicast blocks (224/8 - 239/8) and Future Use blocks (240/8 - 255/8) can't be put back into the pool?
Captain Ned wrote:Is there any real remaining reason why the Multicast blocks (224/8 - 239/8) and Future Use blocks (240/8 - 255/8) can't be put back into the pool?
Airmantharp wrote:The summary at Ars from last year is probably the best "quick" explanation. They have some older articles that offer more background if you search.As a serviceman working in communications, I know that literally every peice of equipment we employ (emphasis on we, my unit) is IPv6 capable. So, as a novice to real internet infrastructure, can anyone share a quick explanation as to what it will take to flip the switch?
Krogoth wrote:I don't see the reason why the networking crowd should be panicking. The major backbones and hubs of the internet will be upgraded long before there will be "actual" problems.
Krogoth wrote:Well that's been the attitude for the past 15 years. We've just reached a major milestone along that path and as I pointed out earlier I'm only aware of one major ISP in North America that supports IPv6. Roll out of IPv6 takes time, how long do we have to wait before we start seeing those upgrades?I don't see the reason why the networking crowd should be panicking. The major backbones and hubs of the internet will be upgraded long before there will be "actual" problems.
notfred wrote:Krogoth wrote:Well that's been the attitude for the past 15 years. We've just reached a major milestone along that path and as I pointed out earlier I'm only aware of one major ISP in North America that supports IPv6. Roll out of IPv6 takes time, how long do we have to wait before we start seeing those upgrades?I don't see the reason why the networking crowd should be panicking. The major backbones and hubs of the internet will be upgraded long before there will be "actual" problems.
just brew it! wrote:Krogoth wrote:I don't see the reason why the networking crowd should be panicking. The major backbones and hubs of the internet will be upgraded long before there will be "actual" problems.
But until the client systems (i.e. the broadband routers in people's homes) are upgraded as well you can't utilize the additional IPv6 address space effectively, because any IPv6-only sites will be inaccessible to a large percentage of Internet users.
Krogoth wrote:The problem is mostly software for client systems. A simple firmware update on most customer-grade routers will do the trick. The real problem is getting average joe to upgrade. ISP will have to launch some of upgrade campaign akin to digital TV movement. It helps that the majority of current OS and NICs have IPv6 support.
just brew it! wrote:Krogoth wrote:The problem is mostly software for client systems. A simple firmware update on most customer-grade routers will do the trick. The real problem is getting average joe to upgrade. ISP will have to launch some of upgrade campaign akin to digital TV movement. It helps that the majority of current OS and NICs have IPv6 support.
You really think that Linksys/Netgear/etc. are going to issue firmware updates for all of their old routers? Netgear hasn't touched the horribly buggy firmware in my router since 2005. If they're not even going to fix blatant bugs, I'd say the odds of an IPv6 firmware upgrade are within epsilon of zero, for any router that isn't in current (or at least recent) production.
just brew it! wrote:In fact, they have a huge economic incentive not to do this. When consumers (eventually) start discovering that there's "more internet" out there that's inaccessible to them except via IPv6, their router mfr has every reason to say "Yes indeed, and we'll be happy to sell you a new router that lets you get there!" After all, you don't get a free upgrade to your CPU when new ones appear, and 802.11b/g users didn't get a free update to n, etc. It doesn't matter that a firmware upgrade is all that's required; they have no obligation to provide one. And short of such an obligation being created (ie, government regulation and mandates, à la digital TV) they won't. cha-chingKrogoth wrote:You really think that Linksys/Netgear/etc. are going to issue firmware updates for all of their old routers? Netgear hasn't touched the horribly buggy firmware in my router since 2005. If they're not even going to fix blatant bugs, I'd say the odds of an IPv6 firmware upgrade are within epsilon of zero, for any router that isn't in current (or at least recent) production.The problem is mostly software for client systems. A simple firmware update on most customer-grade routers will do the trick. The real problem is getting average joe to upgrade. ISP will have to launch some of upgrade campaign akin to digital TV movement. It helps that the majority of current OS and NICs have IPv6 support.
Krogoth wrote:The ISPs get those complaints, not the router mfrs (after all, in this case the internet isn't broken, just incomplete). And the easiest answer the ISPs can give is "your router is out of date, get a new one." They might suggest a firmware upgrade, but again, there's no reason for Cisco to develop a firmware upgrade for a 10-year-old LinkSys router when they can just tell you "Sorry, but did you know for very little money you can get a new router that's even better?"If they get enough customer complaints on "Why my internets is broken?", they might do something.
No, but unless you have a router with 3rd party firmware, there's no guarantee you'll be able to make your old hardware do it, regardless of what it might be capable of.Honestly, there's no real reason to get new hardware when the old stuff is perfectly capable of it.
Krogoth wrote:just brew it! wrote:You really think that Linksys/Netgear/etc. are going to issue firmware updates for all of their old routers? Netgear hasn't touched the horribly buggy firmware in my router since 2005. If they're not even going to fix blatant bugs, I'd say the odds of an IPv6 firmware upgrade are within epsilon of zero, for any router that isn't in current (or at least recent) production.
If they get enough customer complaints on "Why my internets is broken?", they might do something.
Honestly, there's no real reason to get new hardware when the old stuff is perfectly capable of it.
JBI wrote:How much you wanna bet they just tell their customers to buy a new router? Win-win for them -- they don't need to develop the firmware update, and they get to sell more hardware!
Glorious wrote:JBI wrote:How much you wanna bet they just tell their customers to buy a new router? Win-win for them -- they don't need to develop the firmware update, and they get to sell more hardware!
Seriously! This is a ready-made marketing campaign, I can already envision what the "Supports IPv6!" sticker graphic will look like...
The notion that they're going to upgrade all the out gateways out there is nothing short of delusional. That's throwing money away.
Airmantharp wrote:Just because you can't imagine it....I can't imagine a peice of consumer networking equipment manufactured in the last two or three years that doesn't already support IPv6; it's hard to imagine other companies, such as ISPs, providing incapable or unupgradable equipment to their herds, at least in the case of people who rent their equipment. Backbone equipment, on the other hand, I have no concept of .
QWest wrote:That's from July 2010, seven months ago -- yes, you're certainly staying ahead of the internet, QWest! That press release also goes on to mention the government Networx program, which makes me suspect there was actually a requirement to support IPv6 in the later stages of those contracts (the largest civilian government telecoms contracts in the US, which QWest got a piece of) and that was the only reason QWest got even that much on the ball.To stay ahead of the Internet’s explosive growth, Qwest Communications (NYSE: Q) today announced it is offering public and private Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) addresses to its government and business customers.
Airmantharp wrote:Glorious, it's posts like these that make me think you actually are a raving lunatic.
Glorious wrote:JBI wrote:How much you wanna bet they just tell their customers to buy a new router? Win-win for them -- they don't need to develop the firmware update, and they get to sell more hardware!
Seriously! This is a ready-made marketing campaign, I can already envision what the "Supports IPv6!" sticker graphic will look like..
notfred wrote:I just noticed Ars had a story on this. Also, "World IPv6 Day" coming in June.Of the big ISPs in North America, I'm only aware of Comcast rolling out IPv6 http://www.comcast6.net/ The story is different elsewhere in the world, I suspect APNIC has more usage than elsewhere.