Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

[AbRASiON]

I know this seems like a silly question, but in my 5.1 setup, looking at the back of the pc, my inputs are in this order (right to left), do yours match this?

mic -> green -> NULL -> Orange -> Black.

There is also a diagnostics tool that will allow you to play each channel at once, or click on the speaker to generate sound to that satellite regardless if it's plugged in or configured properly. This may help you troubleshoot it more easily.

The independant channels work fine, I can click each speaker independantly and it will say it.
It's simply websites, Windows Media Center etc which play back in 2.0 mode because the sound card won't double the signal to the rears like the Realtek will.

[AbRASiON]

I wouldn't say I've attacked people, rather I've ridiculed people with silly responses.
Let me clarify for the record and for the last time, since the thread has begun to become pedantic

We are talking about 4 IDENTICAL speakers on a decent quality amplifier.
We are talking about 4 speakers which are literally 110/110/ 95/95cm's from my head - the difference is 15cm's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound <- read this, please.

Now.

EVEN IF these silly claims of harmonic buffer overflow goatse distortion and other things from HERE http://www.satcure-focus.com/audio/page9.htm are even remotely true, the OP doesn't care - he (me) wants to hear video content, music, flash video from his speakers evenly, despite this apparent fact.

When a movie comes on which IS 5.1 and doesn't want to talk to my speaker, fine.
When a game comes on which has enemies in front of me and not behind - no rear sound is fine also!

However I would like a permenant surround effect, without adding some kind of hall / room / 'pro logic' trickery to the signal. I simply want it copied as Asus do with their Realtek onboard products.
Many other people want this and I don't think I should need to justify it, it's pretty standard stuff.

Sorry if I'm all but I really don't have time to go into debate over the design of my ear canal, I just want a feature which seems reasonable to me on this 'apparently' premium product (which TR recommends mind you)
Hence the frustration.

EDIT: For the record several people have tried to offer some helpful suggestions.

[Vayate]

Thought I'd add my 2 cents, since I had a similar problem. I have the Xonar D2X, with Klipsch 4.1 speakers, and noted the same problem after switching to the Xonar- I noticed that only my front speakers would output sound when playing music (from iTunes). After a lot of tinkering with various settings (and swearing), I found that changing the number of channels in the Xonar Audio Center to "2" fixed the problem. Any other number of channels, and there would be no music from the rear speakers. Hope that helps.

EDIT for clarification: I kept the speaker number in the Audio Center set to 4 speakers, but the channels set to 2.

[moriz]

This is a really strange thread. The OP asked a question, then attacks anyone who tries to answer it.

By the way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_interference

Interference is a real thing. Basically if you two waves with the same frequency, but arriving at different times they can cancel each other out. In the extreme case of two waves out of phase you see total destruction (the black lines in the interference patterns on the Wikipedia article). Of course the two could add together and make a wave that is twice as strong.

Sound waves are waves, so they have interference patterns too. Interference is taught in most introductory E-M (electricity and magnetism) physics courses in college.

it's mostly his fault for being to thickheaded to realize that what he wants isn't exactly beneficial. his response to everything that even slightly contradicts him is "you're wrong, i'm right, so suck it". it's the same for each and every other forum he posted in. a quick google search yielded three forum results, all started by him, and all following the exact same results, with people giving him well-meaning responses and him spouting something about the speed of sound, which really has no bearing to the issue at hand in a typical computer room.

but hey, since he doesn't care, he should just return the xonar and go back to realtek onboard.

[Neutronbeam]

Vayate -- welcome, and thanks for posting! Nice to see some new folks jumping in and offering advice; good for you!

[AbRASiON]

I've told you why I don't care and you continue to come back and QQ over it, I simply don't believe you and even IF you were right, I don't /care/.
It sounded fine before on the Realtek and we're discussing miniscule distances at the speed of sound - you're derailing the thread and now googling for the sake of more QQ.
The logout button is up the top, feel free to click it.

[Vayate]

No problem - I've been reading TR religiously for a quite a while now, and figured I should join the fray, since I had something worthwile to contribute.

[AbRASiON]

Thought I'd add my 2 cents, since I had a similar problem. I have the Xonar D2X, with Klipsch 4.1 speakers, and noted the same problem after switching to the Xonar- I noticed that only my front speakers would output sound when playing music (from iTunes). After a lot of tinkering with various settings (and swearing), I found that changing the number of channels in the Xonar Audio Center to "2" fixed the problem. Any other number of channels, and there would be no music from the rear speakers. Hope that helps.

EDIT for clarification: I kept the speaker number in the Audio Center set to 4 speakers, but the channels set to 2.

Ahh thank you for the response.
Someone else has thrown that suggestion at me on another forum and (apparently it works)

Now my concern is, when you fire up a '3D' game with surround like Half Life 2 or most modern FPS games, aren't you effectively telling the game 'hey, I only have 2 speakers' - then the game will no longer send /discreet/ rear sounds to the rear speakers?
(Solution, go in to the control panel and change it - but a lot of fiddling is required then)

[TurtlePerson2]

If we're still talking about the interference thing then I'll throw in some math for you.

Speed of Sound = 340.29 m/s
Frequency of Hearing = 12 - 20000 Hz
Wavelength = Wave Velocity (a.k.a. speed of sound) / Frequency

Wavelength = 340.29 (m/s) / 10000 Hz (a.k.a. 1/s) = 0.034 m = 3.4 cm
(If the math is wrong let me know.)

Suddenly the 15 cm difference that you mentioned earlier seems very dangerous. You will have entire frequencies that are lost and others that are not the volume that they should be.



Most people see surround sound as something for movies and games. The sound adds to the immersion. Music on the other hand is usually a 2.1 thing. If you've ever been to a rock concert then you'll notice that all of the sound comes from the stage. They could put speakers in the back, but they don't. I personally have a 5.1 system and I sometimes drop the back channels when listening to music.

[TurtlePerson2]

Thought I'd add my 2 cents, since I had a similar problem. I have the Xonar D2X, with Klipsch 4.1 speakers, and noted the same problem after switching to the Xonar- I noticed that only my front speakers would output sound when playing music (from iTunes). After a lot of tinkering with various settings (and swearing), I found that changing the number of channels in the Xonar Audio Center to "2" fixed the problem. Any other number of channels, and there would be no music from the rear speakers. Hope that helps.

EDIT for clarification: I kept the speaker number in the Audio Center set to 4 speakers, but the channels set to 2.

Ahh thank you for the response.
Someone else has thrown that suggestion at me on another forum and (apparently it works)

Now my concern is, when you fire up a '3D' game with surround like Half Life 2 or most modern FPS games, aren't you effectively telling the game 'hey, I only have 2 speakers' - then the game will no longer send /discreet/ rear sounds to the rear speakers?
(Solution, go in to the control panel and change it - but a lot of fiddling is required then)

You set it from inside the game. Half-Life 2 and all Source games let you choose the number of audio channels from the settings menu.

[Vayate]

Ahh thank you for the response.
Someone else has thrown that suggestion at me on another forum and (apparently it works)

Now my concern is, when you fire up a '3D' game with surround like Half Life 2 or most modern FPS games, aren't you effectively telling the game 'hey, I only have 2 speakers' - then the game will no longer send /discreet/ rear sounds to the rear speakers?
(Solution, go in to the control panel and change it - but a lot of fiddling is required then)

I have noticed that if you leave the Xonar in 2 channel mode, then 3D games do suffer a bit...the sound is still good, but it does the same thing as with music - it either only uses the front speakers, or they all put out equal sound, which is a bit disorienting. The way I've worked around this is to switch the Xonar to 2 channels for music, and 8 channels for games. (Not sure if this is true on the DX, but on the D2X, there is a question mark box next to the channel drop down menu that, when clicked, gives recommendations as to channel settings for games, movies, music, etc.)

Yes, this solution requires you to change the settings depending on what you're going to play, but the great sound is worth it.

[AbRASiON]

Thought I'd add my 2 cents, since I had a similar problem. I have the Xonar D2X, with Klipsch 4.1 speakers, and noted the same problem after switching to the Xonar- I noticed that only my front speakers would output sound when playing music (from iTunes). After a lot of tinkering with various settings (and swearing), I found that changing the number of channels in the Xonar Audio Center to "2" fixed the problem. Any other number of channels, and there would be no music from the rear speakers. Hope that helps.

EDIT for clarification: I kept the speaker number in the Audio Center set to 4 speakers, but the channels set to 2.

Ahh thank you for the response.
Someone else has thrown that suggestion at me on another forum and (apparently it works)

Now my concern is, when you fire up a '3D' game with surround like Half Life 2 or most modern FPS games, aren't you effectively telling the game 'hey, I only have 2 speakers' - then the game will no longer send /discreet/ rear sounds to the rear speakers?
(Solution, go in to the control panel and change it - but a lot of fiddling is required then)

You set it from inside the game. Half-Life 2 and all Source games let you choose the number of audio channels from the settings menu.

The games which don't let you choose 5.1 and try to detect what you have, what about those?

[moriz]

set it manually.

[AbRASiON]

So change it back and forth each time? Very logical,... great job.

[grantmeaname]

So change it back and forth each time? Very logical,... great job.

How is that illogical?

[AbRASiON]

Having to change it per application, when Realtek don't need to? Whut.

[Zoomastigophora]

Having to change it per application, when Realtek don't need to? Whut.

You seem to think that audio cards have an hierarchical inheritance of features so that discrete cards should have all the abilities of the onboard and then some. That's simply not the case, especially across different manufacturers (you're comparing a Realtek chip to a C-Media chip). The fact is that the Xonar drivers don't have the ability to automatically detect whether the audio stream being passed to it has empty channels and upmix appropriately. No amount of complaining will change that, short of you convincing the driver writers over at C-Media to implement that. At this point, the best solution would be to go back to Realtek since it has this feature that you want, and based on your first post, you won't be able to tell the difference in terms of audio quality.

[AbRASiON]

For reference: This still pisses me off to this day. 4 channel music is fine, I've been listening to it for nearly 10 years with the old A3D cards and then this thing is awkward getting it working.
It's ridiculous, worst of all, it's intermittant. I've had it working fine in Winamp before now it's not working again

[Grape Flavor]

As others have mentioned, Dolby Virtual Speaker will upmix the signal across a 5.1 setup.

No. Dolby Virtual Speaker is used to downmix surround sound to stereo speakers. You are thinking of Dolby Pro Logic II.

I have noticed that if you leave the Xonar in 2 channel mode, then 3D games do suffer a bit...the sound is still good, but it does the same thing as with music - it either only uses the front speakers, or they all put out equal sound, which is a bit disorienting. The way I've worked around this is to switch the Xonar to 2 channels for music, and 8 channels for games.

It's not a "workaround". It's the way the Xonar is intended to be used, which you would know, if you had read the manual.

I swear to god, most of the complaints and confusion with the Xonar cards would be completely resolved if people would just learn to RTFM. The Xonar is a strange beast with lots of features and expecting the simplicity of onboard is not going to get you anywhere.

To the OP, I suggest using Dolby Pro Logic II in "Music Mode", which is adjustable BTW. If that isn't satisfactory, just set Audio Channels to 2 and Analog Output to 4 and see what happens. If that still doesn't work, get a Y-splitter, otherwise you're SOTL.

Seriously though, all these people with Xonar "problems", stop speculating on forums and RTFM. Here's the link for the latest version for your OS: http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx

[MadManOriginal]

For reference: this thread still makes me laugh to this day.

@OP - at least you chose an accurately descriptive username!

[Grape Flavor]

For reference: this thread still makes me laugh to this day.

You know, I hadn't even noticed that this was a dredged up old thread. Oh well. My comment still stands.

[AbRASiON]

Card has begun crackling and popping, switching audio from front channels to rear - it's finally died.
I've switched back to onboard and oh... on my speaker setup - no difference - as I've always said.
Enjoying speaker fill though!

[moriz]

soo... you'd realized a long time ago that the card isn't for you, but didn't get a refund, and now the card is dead.

why did you hang onto it for so long if it isn't what you are looking for? you could've returned it, or sold it and recoup your costs.

[AbRASiON]

Cause it was fairly cheap anyhow - I also wanted to be sure I had sufficient data for my debates on TR regarding these idiot articles recommending a discrete card, without recommending a decent sound system.

[moriz]

TR has been recommending the xonar dg for the last little while, which only costs $30, and almost always with "if you have good speakers/cans" as the caveat. so, i'm not sure which articles you are referring to.

tbh at $30, that card is an afterthought. it's justifiable whether you have good sound systems or not.

[JustAnEngineer]

A refurbished Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium costs only $50. A new one is $75.

[TwistedKestrel]

I just checked through the thread, making sure nobody has posted the easiest answer -

Anyway, brainbit's Unified Xonar Drivers offer the option of 4 channel stereo when they are installed. And are generally better than ASUS's drivers in every way. I was somewhat disappointed to see that Geoff didn't even mention the driver issues in TR's latest Xonar U3 review.

[morphine]

I just checked through the thread, making sure nobody has posted the easiest answer -

Anyway, brainbit's Unified Xonar Drivers offer the option of 4 channel stereo when they are installed. And are generally better than ASUS's drivers in every way. I was somewhat disappointed to see that Geoff didn't even mention the driver issues in TR's latest Xonar U3 review.

If I had to guess, because apart from the back channel delay and the high DPC latency, the remaining problems are with input/recording.

[AbRASiON]

I just checked through the thread, making sure nobody has posted the easiest answer -

Anyway, brainbit's Unified Xonar Drivers offer the option of 4 channel stereo when they are installed. And are generally better than ASUS's drivers in every way. I was somewhat disappointed to see that Geoff didn't even mention the driver issues in TR's latest Xonar U3 review.

Sad that someone has to code up their own driver replacement.

[AbRASiON]

I just loaded on the latest Uni Xonar drivers and I still can't get stereo upmix without having to manually set my sound configuration to 2 speakers manually (sigh...) which means you forget to put it back to 5.1 for games (and need to quit, manually set back to 5.1 then reopen the game)

Argh :/ I guess this feature will never be properly supported on these cards.