Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

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Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:45 am

With Portal 2 around the corner the time has come to look at upgrading my old ATI 4870x2 2GB running on a 1920x1200 display. I've lost touch with what's good value these days in PC land and was going to go with a nVidia as I've a use for the CUDA capabilities.

From reading around I was initially thinking GTX 560 Ti seems a very solid card for a good price, but can't find hard number of if it would actually be faster then my current 4870x2. Get the impression it's about the same, any know?

The rest of my spec, old but still has a year or two in it:
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:17 am

While your card is DX10 and AMD's dual-GPU scaling has gotten quite good recently with the 6000-series, I'm really having a hard time understanding why you'd need to upgrade, especially at 1200p. My old GTX260 is about the same speed, and at that resolution it had very few issues when I replaced it with my GTX570, which was largely in (muted) anticipation of a 30" 1600p (about twice the resolution as 1080/1200p) panel. Portal 2 on the antiquated Source engine isn't really a good reason to 'upgrade', as I think that your current setup should actually be faster than a GTX560.

Also, what applications (if you don't mind me asking) do you need for CUDA on the desktop?
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:49 am

Airmantharp wrote:Also, what applications (if you don't mind me asking) do you need for CUDA on the desktop?

Thanks for the info... CUDA is CS5 Premier Pro, do a good bit of freelance video editing. Portal 2, Dragons Age II, Elder Scroll 5 and the CUDA is making me think about a new rig, starting with the GFX as that can be used in my current kit. CUDA is the primary reason, off line rendering in PP doesn't take too long, but it all adds up over the course of a project; I use a lot of filter 3 to 5 not include possible overlays. Since I haven't seen CUDA Premier Pro in real life, only the demo I don't know if the investment for that alone is worth the cash. Was waiting till my current GFX card starts to show its age.

Don't want to be dropping 450+ on a GFX card again until I can get at least twice the performance of the 4870x2, and since I'm only 1920x1200 not sure if I'll get the full value run at that resolution.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:28 am

Well, Portal II doesn't count, but these do:
Dragon Age II, when set to Very High (which requires DX11), burdons Nvidia GPUs pretty hard; I'm discussing it over in the Dragon Age II thread.
Elder Scrolls V can be imagined to be quite a beast, though it remains to be seen. They certainly have the opportunity, skill, and precedence to make it intensive.
I can't answer the Premiere Pro question. I have Elements 9 installed, but I haven't messed with it yet. I have a suspicion that it won't help as much as you'd like, though. Tough call there.

A GTX560 Ti is definitely not twice as fast as an HD4870x2 2GB; it may even be slower. You have a very nice card, really- if I were looking for a reason to upgrade it, I would be concerned about improving heat and noise output first!
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:51 pm

Airmantharp wrote:Elder Scrolls V can be imagined to be quite a beast, though it remains to be seen. They certainly have the opportunity, skill, and precedence to make it intensive.

Eeeh... I'm an Elder Scrolls addict, but apart from the animation, I didn't see anything in the Skyrim trailer all that much better than Oblivion in terms of graphics. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:55 pm

portal2 will not be an intensive game
560 is fine though
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:58 pm

Pax-UX wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:Also, what applications (if you don't mind me asking) do you need for CUDA on the desktop?

Thanks for the info... CUDA is CS5 Premier Pro, do a good bit of freelance video editing.


I was looking at CUDA myself for CS5 PP, but when I saw Anand's video encoding IQ shootout with SB, nv and ATI, decided that I was better off sticking to CPU encoding for the time being (course, CS5 PP does use CUDA for more than straight encoding - realtime effects previewing is pretty useful for commercial and broadcast use, but nothing I need for myself).
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:01 pm

morphine wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:Elder Scrolls V can be imagined to be quite a beast, though it remains to be seen. They certainly have the opportunity, skill, and precedence to make it intensive.

Eeeh... I'm an Elder Scrolls addict, but apart from the animation, I didn't see anything in the Skyrim trailer all that much better than Oblivion in terms of graphics. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.


Me too- this is just speculation on my part. I feel that Bethesda has the opportunity to really push graphics with this one, as they've done in the past.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:47 pm

your 4870x2 is about as fast as a 5870
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gami ... ,1830.html
according to tom, anyway. A 560 is quite a bit slower than your current setup. I wouldn't make that trade at all. As for CUDA, cs5 supports opencl, and should work on either card: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html

Stick with what you've got for now, if you're not INSANE. :)
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:08 pm

Drivers have probably improved the 5870 to being faster than the 4870x2, but I can't say for certain.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:02 pm

sweatshopking wrote:your 4870x2 is about as fast as a 5870
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gami ... ,1830.html
according to tom, anyway. A 560 is quite a bit slower than your current setup. I wouldn't make that trade at all. As for CUDA, cs5 supports opencl, and should work on either card: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/404/kb404898.html

Stick with what you've got for now, if you're not INSANE. :)

While I am most definitely insane! you're right... Those links are very helpful. Plus I found some good GPU comparisons which included the 4870x2 and some of the newer cards over on Guru3d for DX9/10 games.

Summing up my findings encase anyone else might find this useful.

* As Airmantharp pointed out, Heat / Fan noise plus PSU Power draw is the biggest killer on this card and right now the only really valid reason to upgrade to something like 560 Ti.
* No DX11, not yet a issue IMO
* GTX 560 Ti is on avarage the same or slightly better for my purposes
* No CS5 PP CUDA support yet for GTX 560, only seen GTX 570 listed on Adobes site

Short answer 4870x2 lives to see another 9 months... will check again December and keep an eye out for GTX 580 bargins as that appears to lowest spec that would be worth investing in. Plus there's a GTX 590 due soon.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:18 pm

the 590 is expected to be slower than the 6990, due to power requirements needing lower clocked chips. I'd wait for the 7k or 6xx series.
Last edited by sweatshopking on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:20 pm

sweatshopking wrote:the 590 is expected to be slower than the 5990, due to power requirements needing lower clocked chips. I'd wait for the 7k or 6xx series.


This has nothing to do with the thread, thanks.

The *GXT590 (dual GPU from Nvidia) may be faster or slower than the *6990, but both are out of the scope of the discussion; as per the power requirements discussion, AMD exceeded the PCIe spec, why can Nvidia exceed it a little more?
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:12 am

Airmantharp wrote:
sweatshopking wrote:the 590 is expected to be slower than the 5990, due to power requirements needing lower clocked chips. I'd wait for the 7k or 6xx series.


This has nothing to do with the thread, thanks.

The *GXT590 (dual GPU from Nvidia) may be faster or slower than the *6990, but both are out of the scope of the discussion; as per the power requirements discussion, AMD exceeded the PCIe spec, why can Nvidia exceed it a little more?


thanks for your opinion on what comments this thread needs. If you're a mod, seems you forgot to change to green. thanks for the typo fix.

As per the 590, there are plenty of rumors expecting it to be clocked down. check out this one from yesterday's shortbread: http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-g ... ially.html
I don't give a rats ass what he buys. I don't care. You seem to complain a lot about my posts, but you never have anything to back up your claims. If you've got links, show em'. if you don't stop whining all the time.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:27 am

sweatshopking wrote:thanks for your opinion on what comments this thread needs. If you're a mod, seems you forgot to change to green. thanks for the typo fix.

As per the 590, there are plenty of rumors expecting it to be clocked down. check out this one from yesterday's shortbread: http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-g ... ially.html
I don't give a rats ass what he buys. I don't care. You seem to complain a lot about my posts, but you never have anything to back up your claims. If you've got links, show em'. if you don't stop whining all the time.


It doesn't take a mod to call someone out for posting out of context (trolling/hijacking) and spreading FUD. My opinions are just as valid as your opinions and nordichardware's opinions- and in this off-topic subject, nothing but opinions exists.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:45 am

Pax-UX wrote: Plus there's a GTX 590 due soon.



First off, it's not out of context, Pax brought up the 590. Second, your opinions ARE just as valid as mine, but you don't see me whining about every post you make. look man, i'm not looking to beef with you, but this is silly. You whined about my opinion of dragon age 2, but it's an opinion that seems to be quite shared, as reviewers agree. You're whining because I said the 590 is EXPECTED to be slower. And it is. here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=geforce+590+clockspeeds I get that you really like nvidia. that's super. I like them too. I'm not going to buy a crappier product because of the sticker though. you'll notice I didn't tell him to buy 6990.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:53 am

What I think I'm finding in your posts is kind of a 'misdirection'. With that, the discussion is surrounding the replacement of a 4870x2, possibly with a GTX560- suggesting a GTX590 is downright silly, given the starting point. Also, keep in mind that this particular thread really is Nvidia bound due to needed application support, so while AMD makes great cards, they don't apply. Mentioning AMD or ultra-high-end cards in this thread isn't going to get the OP closer to a solution, and involves discussions that should be held elsewhere. That's where I'm coming from.

Can we get back on topic now please?
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:05 am

These are all roughly equivalent in performance and they all have plenty of power to run this generation's games:

Your Generation (dx10)
4870x 2
GTX 295

Last Generation (dx11)
HD 5870
GTX 470

This Generation (dx11)
HD 6950
GTX 560

Really no need to upgrade but if you must the only logical solutions would be top-tier cards like an HD 6970 or GTX 580.
The reason the latest two generations are so close to each other is because there was no die shrink, I would wait for it.

EDIT These are all assuming stock frequencies. GTX 460 1GB and Radeon HD 5850 are still considered the "sweet spot"
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:47 am

Airmantharp wrote: Also, keep in mind that this particular thread really is Nvidia bound due to needed application support, so while AMD makes great cards, they don't apply.

Can we get back on topic now please?

Did you read the link, where I showed that the "support" for the program he is using, DOES support AMD. It's not misdirection.
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:00 am

sweatshopking wrote:
Airmantharp wrote: Also, keep in mind that this particular thread really is Nvidia bound due to needed application support, so while AMD makes great cards, they don't apply.

Can we get back on topic now please?

Did you read the link, where I showed that the "support" for the program he is using, DOES support AMD. It's not misdirection.


Did you explain that as the reason you linked a poorly translated rumor article?
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Re: Looking to Upgrade ATI 4870x2 2GB

Postposted on Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:10 am

Airmantharp wrote: as per the power requirements discussion, AMD exceeded the PCIe spec, why can Nvidia exceed it a little more?


that's why i posted the poorly translated article.
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