Failure with three Seasonic X650's

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Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:34 pm

These are suppose to be great PSUs.

The issue is that when I turn it on, for the first 10 seconds the CPU and any system fans run at bare minimum and the computer does not boot.

I did the paper clip test. (yes I quadruple checked to make sure I had the right spots) the fan rotates just a bit for a couple seconds then stops. If I turn the power off and on without letting it rest, the fan does not move at all. If I turn the power off and leave it off for say a minute, again rotates for a few seconds before stopping, like I mentioned before.

I have had this happen with three of them now! Newegg has already send me 2 replacements, I don't think they would do another. I am not sure I would want to even bother with another, this is astoundingly high failure rate.

Granted the last box's corner was all scrunched up like the PSU had been dropped, but still! Is there something I am possibly missing here? Could it be something else causing this? But then what about the paper clip test, isn't the fan suppose to run continuously?

Any else have any experiences of success or failure or anything in between with this PSU? Please share.

Also, newegg shows blue cable ties your suppose to get with this product, none of the three had these ties. Any of you get blue cable ties?
Last edited by TruePurple on Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:03 pm

Do you have a spare PSU (different model) you can try, to rule out a problem with the build? Based on the behavior, this sounds like it could be a shorted/grounded out motherboard to me.

Some PSUs will not start if there is no load connected, so the paperclip test is not conclusive.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:28 pm

No I do not have a spare PSU that will work with this level of MoBo. The test was suggested by seasonic and I was given a link to their own webpage for instructions for this test http://seasonicusa.com/RMABeta/JumpStart/JS.pdf and was told by seasonic with the first PSU that if that test failed, it most likely means the PSU is bad.(I would think if this test wasn't meant for that PSU, they would have not told me to use it)

The setup is just the motherboard, CPU, and video card sitting on the foam the motherboard came with on the wooden kitchen table,(PSU sits on a different piece of foam on table) I don't see how there is room in that for grounding. What exactly do you mean by "shorted"?

There was one weird thing that happened with the motherboard though, since it was a pain to connect the power switch from case to the board outside of the case (the reach of the cable is short) I tried the screwdriver to the power switch pins technic to get it to start (that technic didn't work before, so I didn't really expect it to work this time) it worked. But then it was like always on, when I turned the PSU off, then on again, it was like the on button was already pressed, I tried turning it off and on several times, at least once resting it and unplugging it from the wall.

When I connected the power switch cable to the pins, this went away, it only turned on when I hit the button, even then removing the cable latter, the issue did not return.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:37 pm

That foam that comes with the motherboard is anti-static. That might be what's killing your boards.

To test the board correctly: First ground yourself before touching any of the components, then mount the motherboard on the stand-offs in the case and lightly screw it down with two or three screws just to hold it in place and ground it effectively. Now test.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:52 pm

The first one was tested in case (didn't figure there could be anything possibly wrong with such high grade parts) and of course properly installed with standoffs etc., then tested out of it too.

That foam that comes with the motherboard is anti-static. That might be what's killing your boards.


Antistatic does not kill MoBos. The people I have talked too, like seasonic tech support and others, have all said that the best testing conditions is outside the case on a non-conductive surface. If you wish to be the voice of dissent in this, please explain how such could cause any trouble at all, some evidence in the way of website linkage or other people backing you up, or something maybe please.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:05 pm

Anti-static foam is not conductive enough to cause shorts. Testing on the foam should not be an issue. However, it is slightly conductive; that's what makes it anti-static.

So you're both only partially correct.

I'm leaning (slightly) towards the motherboard being bad at this point, but it is impossible to say for sure. Since you don't have another PSU to test the motherboard with, do you maybe have another motherboard you can test the PSU with?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:08 pm

I half anticipated that question, and should have cut it off at the pass. No, I don't have any other parts to test things with. All my other PC parts are many generations older to the point of being incompatible. To buy a part just to test another seems a silly waste of money.

I did try the first time directly on the kitchen table too.
Last edited by TruePurple on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:12 pm

TruePurple wrote:I half anticipated that question, and should have cut it off at the pass. No, I don't have any other parts to test things with. All my other PC parts are many generations older to the point of being incompatible. To buy a part just to test another seems a silly waste of money.

I did try the first time directly on the kitchen table too.


have you tried the "bad" PSU in another machine?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:16 pm

@cheesyking
I covered that in the post you quoted in your post, if I had another machine to put this in, I would have spare parts compatible with it, I already said I didn't, and no I don't know anyone who does.

@JBI
What about what I said about the paperclip test? Still hold it as inconclusive?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:19 pm

just brew it! wrote:Anti-static foam is not conductive enough to cause shorts. Testing on the foam should not be an issue. However, it is slightly conductive; that's what makes it anti-static.

So you're both only partially correct.

I'm leaning (slightly) towards the motherboard being bad at this point, but it is impossible to say for sure. Since you don't have another PSU to test the motherboard with, do you maybe have another motherboard you can test the PSU with?

That depends on the type of anti-static foam. There is the pink anti-static foam (polyethylene), the black anti-static foam (high density polyurethane) and the anti-static foam that is metallized, much like an anti-static bag. Some are more conductive than others. If they're highly conductive, it's like running a board on top of an anti-static bag, which is a bad idea. As to the type of foam that came with your motherboard, who knows what type it is? Its color isn't always a guarantee. So be safe and run the board in a case using stand-offs.
Last edited by bdwilcox on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:22 pm

TruePurple wrote:@JBI
What about what I said about the paperclip test? Still hold it as inconclusive?

Yup. Front line tech support are not always the most clued in people.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:33 pm

Well it is from their own website too, so obviously meant for their products.

So got any suggestions for testing this issue then?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:41 pm

Your first post says the computer wont boot. A couple of replies later you say the setup is just mobo cpu and vid card on foam on your kitchen table , which is it? Did you have all the components in the case originally when you tried the first PSU ? I did read somewhere that the fan on this PSU wont operate under less than a 20% load.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:48 pm

According to SPCR, the fan on these things wont spin up at all until certain loads.

"The PSU fan did not spin up at turn-on with a 20W load. In fact, it did not spin up immediately at turn-on even with a 200W load, at least not from a cold start."

Also,

"On the test bench with ambient room temperature at 23°C, the fan in the Seasonic X-650 started at about 340W load. "
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:51 pm

Rogue, I never said it wouldn't boot at all, I said for 10 seconds turning it on, it doesn't boot. The first sentence of yours doesn't fit with the second.

@suspenders
I was not talking about the PSU fan, I was talking about the CPU fan and case fans, (the case fans only applying the first time) The key issue is not the fans, but the lack of booting for 10 whole seconds after hitting the power switch to turn it on.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:32 pm

TruePurple wrote:These are suppose to be great PSUs.

The issue is that when I turn it on, for the first 10 seconds the fans run at bare minimum and the computer does not boot.

I did the paper clip test. (yes I quadruple checked to make sure I had the right spots) the fan rotates just a bit for a couple seconds then stops. If I turn the power off and on without letting it rest, the fan does not move at all. If I turn the power off and leave it off for say a minute, again rotates for a few seconds before stopping, like I mentioned before.

I have had this happen with three of them now! Newegg has already send me 2 replacements, I don't think they would do another. I am not sure I would want to even bother with another, this is astoundingly high failure rate.

Granted the last box's corner was all scrunched up like the PSU had been dropped, but still! Is there something I am possibly missing here? Could it be something else causing this? But then what about the paper clip test, isn't the fan suppose to run continuously?

Any else have any experiences of success or failure or anything in between with this PSU? Please share.

Also, newegg shows blue cable ties your suppose to get with this product, none of the three had these ties. Any of you get blue cable ties?


Read your post ,second sentence says computer does not boot.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:42 pm

Why do people quote whole posts when they are replying to something small? It so defeats the purpose of quoting.

"The issue is that when I turn it on, for the first 10 seconds the fans run at bare minimum and the computer does not boot."


That is all one sentence BTW!

Now can we please get back OT.

Tech support suggested I buy this to test the HDD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product but is this really a good way to test how well a PSU is working? It seems to be only for testing how much it draws.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:00 pm

Are you saying that it boots after ten seconds? Can you list what your motherboard, videocard, case, and monitor are?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:51 pm

Here's the thing... there are basically three possibilities here:

1) You got 3 bad PSUs in a row.

2) Your motherboard is bad.

3) For some reason, this model of PSU just doesn't get along with this model of motherboard. (This is a bit of a long shot, but I've seen it happen.)

The *only* way you're going to be able to conclusively determine what's going on is to either try a different model of PSU with your motherboard, or try the PSU with a different motherboard. Until you can figure out a way to make that happen, we're just guessing.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:01 pm

So your saying that test device I mentioned earlier wouldn't be of much use?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:10 pm

when you do the paper clip test nothing should be plugged in except one 4 pin accessory fan like a 120mm case fan
obviously, the psu can't be in the case to rule out grounding issues

you can buy a testing tool if you wish, I would probably rather buy a motherboard testing tool
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:17 am

TruePurple wrote:So your saying that test device I mentioned earlier wouldn't be of much use?

It is useful in that it'll tell you whether the PSU is DOA. If you don't mind spending the $25, yes it is a potentially useful thing to have in your toolbox.

However, I think it is unlikely that you got 3 DOA PSUs in a row, so I don't expect it to tell you anything useful in this case.

Edit --
TruePurple wrote:Well it is from their own website too, so obviously meant for their products.

...because manufacturers' web sites always have 100% up-to-date and accurate information? Welcome to the real world, where the web site maintainers and/or marketing people don't always talk to the engineers.
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:45 pm

Seasonic X650 PSU
Antec Veris (Fusion Remote) HTPC Case
Gigabyte GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 (Rev. 1.3) MoBo
Intel i5 2500K CPU
Kingston 8GB HyperX 1600 (2X4GB) First try
Crucial 8GB Ballistix 1600 (2X4GB) Second try
Crucial M4 128 GB SSD

CPU and case consistently fans spin up for 1 second with both brands of memory installed in Banks 1 and 3, and consistently spin for about 10 seconds with both brands of SDRAM installed in banks 2 and 4. I never get to beep codes. I replaced the motherboard once. Same results. I have no 2nd PSU to try. Quite frankly, because of it's reputation and the money I paid for it, the Seasonic was at the bottom of my list of possible culprits. Until now.

Academic question: Why do the fans consistently spin for different lengths of time, depending on where the memory is installed?
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Re: Failure with three Seasonic X650's

Postposted on Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:33 pm

ReneDC wrote:Academic question: Why do the fans consistently spin for different lengths of time, depending on where the memory is installed?

Because each slot is tested by itself during POST.
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