Value of IPS display?

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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Thu May 05, 2011 12:27 pm

Bauxite wrote:PS: Thinkpads come with very little bloatware, no idea about their other brands but if you enter the glossy hell of "consumer" models its your own fault.


Actually the one my wife has is a Thinkpad... I'm not quite sure where you're getting the notion that Thinkpad is somehow above a "consumer" brand...

And yeah, it came loaded with plenty of useless bloatware; some of it beyond useless as it had to be removed for the laptop to work properly.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Fri May 06, 2011 11:30 pm

So just got my ThinkPad in. Really loving it. The display is fantastic. It did come with quite a few extra programs, but they've been fairly useful and don't seem to slow it down much.
As a quick test of the graphics, (I got the 1000M) I did the video stress test that came with HL2:Lost Coast. I got 54.3 fps with all settings maxed, running at 1080p. That result is significantly better than the GeForce 210 in my dad's newest desktop. HL2:LC is kinda old though, so that information may not be worth much to you.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat May 07, 2011 11:00 am

lonleyppl wrote:So just got my ThinkPad in. Really loving it. The display is fantastic. It did come with quite a few extra programs, but they've been fairly useful and don't seem to slow it down much.
As a quick test of the graphics, (I got the 1000M) I did the video stress test that came with HL2:Lost Coast. I got 54.3 fps with all settings maxed, running at 1080p. That result is significantly better than the GeForce 210 in my dad's newest desktop. HL2:LC is kinda old though, so that information may not be worth much to you.

i just ran a test, out of curiosity. I got 137 on my 4890. that puts you slightly more than 1/3 the speed, at that test anyway. Not bad for a laptop!
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat May 07, 2011 4:12 pm

cphite wrote:
Bauxite wrote:PS: Thinkpads come with very little bloatware, no idea about their other brands but if you enter the glossy hell of "consumer" models its your own fault.


Actually the one my wife has is a Thinkpad... I'm not quite sure where you're getting the notion that Thinkpad is somehow above a "consumer" brand...

And yeah, it came loaded with plenty of useless bloatware; some of it beyond useless as it had to be removed for the laptop to work properly.

What model is it? The more traditional W/T/X are more "enterprise businesses" oriented and should come with less bloatware. The SL and Edge series are newly cooked up lines that they try to bring down the cost plus making it more consumer friendly, targeted at smaller businesses.

The non-Thinkpad Lenovo laptops are consumer oriented just like the Asus and others. Expect bloatware and OMGglossy.

Unless of course you consider the network connection helper and presentation manager "bloatware" then yes, it is not stock OS after all. Now granted the bigger green battery meter is larger than the stock icon, but I actually rather like the green docked bar over the stock battery icon. It is not in my face enough for a notebook where battery remaining is a vital number to see.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat May 07, 2011 4:47 pm

Flying Fox wrote: The SL and Edge series are newly cooked up lines that they try to bring down the cost plus making it more consumer friendly, targeted at smaller businesses.

The non-Thinkpad Lenovo laptops are consumer oriented just like the Asus and others. Expect bloatware and OMGglossy.
And one of the ways they "bring down the cost" is by accepting payment to include that bloatware.

Wish there was an explanation like that for OMGlossy other than the rather depressing observation that many people are magpies and "Oooh, shiny" must just have an appeal that overwhelms thought.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Wed May 18, 2011 6:53 pm

Althernai wrote:The closest I've come is HP's dv6t which has a 2630QM, 6770M... but is stuck with a 1366x768 display which is completely unacceptable. Argh. :(

While I was waiting for reviews of the Precision and EliteBook, HP appears to have figured out that 1366x768 is unacceptable in that form factor. They now not only offer a 1920x1080 upgrade, but it's even matte! Was somebody from HP reading this thread? :)

Anyway, along with the better screen, they also now offer not one, but two varieties of the 6770M priced $50 apart. The only difference appears to be that one of them has 1GB of RAM and the other has 2GB. The memory bandwidth of the 6770M is 57.6GB/s (128-bit GDDR5 bus, 900MHz base memory speed). Would that kind of card be improved by an extra GB of memory or is the bus too narrow and/or the number of cores (480) too small for it to matter?
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Wed May 18, 2011 7:10 pm

Get a laptop for work and desktop for gaming. You could get a cheap laptop for $500-$600 that can do powerpoint and excel. You can get a good gaming computer for $1000.

As for TN vs. IPS. I have a 24" TN, but I use a 24" IPS at school. I don't notice much of a difference. I do gaming at home and circuit layout at school, so neither application really demands perfect color.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Wed May 18, 2011 7:21 pm

TurtlePerson2 wrote:Get a laptop for work and desktop for gaming. You could get a cheap laptop for $500-$600 that can do powerpoint and excel. You can get a good gaming computer for $1000.

This is generally good advice and I will eventually follow it (if there are still desktops and laptops), but right now, it's not for me. I commute between Europe and the US and also between several major US cities. The laptop is always with me.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:27 pm

I'm also considering the Dell M4600. Primarily because of the DisplayPort and high-resolution matte (?) screen options....
Very frustrating that it's not possible to compare the two full-HD options (IPS, standard) in real life - or even find a serious review on the subject!
However, as I see it the IPS option is much more expensive than 370$? You need the display (370$) but also the Quadro 2000M (470$ up from the FireGL M5950). The difference in the IPS/non-IPS configuration is 900$ on my screen (haven't found the last 60$ yet... ;-)
Regarding the graphics, I'd estimate the FireGL to be in the same class as the Quadro 2000M. The latter has double RAM - but if my asumption that M5950 equals HD6770 the benchmarks for the FireGL seems to be ~20% better for OpenGL and ~10% worse in DirectX. I'd expect the OpenGL advantage to be bigger with the FireGL drivers (and perhaps the DirectX to be slightly worse). My primary source: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Gra ... 844.0.html

Anyway, my point is that I'd love to get the IPS (very happy with my Dell U2711). But at a 900$ premium (including a graphics card upgrade, I don't consider especially superior), I'll probably live with the standard full-HD display... Would have liked to see gamut values and viewing angles, though, or better yet: see the display in real life before buying!

Other Dell Precision thoughts:
- hope the screens are actually matte! Can anyone confirm this? Anti-glare might just mean "like HP Envy" - but I'd prefer the matte "like ThinkPads"...
- shame Dell has been moving to 16:9 for the last 2 or three generations... I'd prefer the 16:10 resolution (1920*1200) - we're not buying precisions to watch movies!
- wonder if anyone is actually buying BlueRay drives for the 400$ premium? If so I might be wrong about my previous statement! ;-)
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:04 pm

Gnyff wrote:I'm also considering the Dell M4600.

After seeing the real-life battery time, I've grown disillusioned with it. You only get around 3 hours. The Dell guy on a forum I frequent promised 6, but I should have known it is too good to be true.

Very frustrating that it's not possible to compare the two full-HD options (IPS, standard) in real life - or even find a serious review on the subject!
However, as I see it the IPS option is much more expensive than 370$? You need the display (370$) but also the Quadro 2000M (470$ up from the FireGL M5950).

You don't need the 2000M, there's just a bug in Dell's US configurator. If you call them on the phone, they should be able to give you the M5950 with the IPS display.

Regarding the graphics, I'd estimate the FireGL to be in the same class as the Quadro 2000M. The latter has double RAM - but if my asumption that M5950 equals HD6770 the benchmarks for the FireGL seems to be ~20% better for OpenGL and ~10% worse in DirectX. I'd expect the OpenGL advantage to be bigger with the FireGL drivers (and perhaps the DirectX to be slightly worse).

The 2000M is like a GTX460M (which is pretty powerful for a mobile GPU, similar to a GTS450 on the desktop), but they crippled it with DDR3 memory on a 128-bit bus. Maybe this has some value for professional applications, but it renders it sub-optimal for gaming, particularly at 1920x1080.

- hope the screens are actually matte! Can anyone confirm this? Anti-glare might just mean "like HP Envy" - but I'd prefer the matte "like ThinkPads"...

It appears to be matte, but not particularly high color gamut. I think it's the same display as the HP Pavilion dv6, although I'm not entirely sure.

- wonder if anyone is actually buying BlueRay drives for the 400$ premium? If so I might be wrong about my previous statement! ;-)

The BlueRay drive can actually write BlueRay disks so presumably it can be used for high-capacity storage as well as movies (although I'm not sure if anyone actually does that).
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:48 am

Althernai wrote:After seeing the real-life battery time, I've grown disillusioned with it. You only get around 3 hours. The Dell guy on a forum I frequent promised 6, but I should have known it is too good to be true.


I've always considered the battery as more or less an UPS. So I wasn't even considering the 9-cell batteries (though the fact that they reputedly don't protrude from the back makes them a lot more tempting...).
Anyways, I'm OK with needing to plug in high-performance laptops when the performance is needed. But I'm still a bit puzzled that all the vendors of high-end notebooks does not implement a "long battery life mode". Didn't look into the processors, but ie. disabling a few cores (and still down clock as usual), turning off the graphics card completely and using an Intel HD from the processor shouldn't be that hard... Would be great for office apps and when off the power grid!

Gnyff wrote:Very frustrating that it's not possible to compare the two full-HD options (IPS, standard) in real life - or even find a serious review on the subject!
However, as I see it the IPS option is much more expensive than 370$? You need the display (370$) but also the Quadro 2000M (470$ up from the FireGL M5950).
Althernai wrote:You don't need the 2000M, there's just a bug in Dell's US configurator. If you call them on the phone, they should be able to give you the M5950 with the IPS display.


Now, that's good information! Thanks! :-)
It just seemed TO strange that they would add the error, so I thought they had actually found some limitations with the cheaper graphics chips. 'Cause a couple of weeks ago it was not problem to configure the IPS with the FireGL online either...

Gnyff wrote:- wonder if anyone is actually buying BlueRay drives for the 400$ premium? If so I might be wrong about my previous statement! ;-)
Althernai wrote:The BlueRay drive can actually write BlueRay disks so presumably it can be used for high-capacity storage as well as movies (although I'm not sure if anyone actually does that).


A writer is always a plus. But way over the premium I think most people are willing to pay. Me at least ;-)
So I find it strange they dont offer a simple BlueRay read / DVD RW at a more resonable price. Anyway, DVD RW is what I need - the BlueRay would be in the gadget class ...
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:05 am

Gnyff wrote:Now, that's good information! Thanks! :-)
It just seemed TO strange that they would add the error, so I thought they had actually found some limitations with the cheaper graphics chips. 'Cause a couple of weeks ago it was not problem to configure the IPS with the FireGL online either...

I think I know the story behind this one. They initially had a bug where the 2000M and the IPS display were incompatible. When people complained, Dell fixed it (see here), but in the process, they broke the compatibility of all of the other GPUs with the IPS display. It's stupid and it has probably cost them quite a few sales, particularly since the ISP display cannot use Nvidia's Optimus so you lose one of the few advantages of the 2000M.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:33 pm

Althernai wrote:
Gnyff wrote:It just seemed TO strange that they would add the error, so I thought they had actually found some limitations with the cheaper graphics chips. 'Cause a couple of weeks ago it was not problem to configure the IPS with the FireGL online either...

I think I know the story behind this one. They initially had a bug where the 2000M and the IPS display were incompatible. When people complained, Dell fixed it (see here), but in the process, they broke the compatibility of all of the other GPUs with the IPS display. It's stupid and it has probably cost them quite a few sales, particularly since the ISP display cannot use Nvidia's Optimus so you lose one of the few advantages of the 2000M.


Darn! I don't really know if we should laugh or cry! :wink:
But if you're right it's a good story and pretty embarressing for Dell! I mean they are web-centric ;-) And for sure I'd be worried about my job if I was the responsible webmaster at Dell. :o

In general I think it's a big mistake by Dell that they don't accept any feedback on their sites. The Danish one has several factual errors - but I don't see how they'll ever find them, if they do not want users to report them...
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:53 pm

Gnyff, I'm pretty sure Intel's latest CPUs are more than capable of powering down properly; heck, for my Toshiba laptop series, the same battery life is quoted between the dual-core and the quad-core Sandy Bridge options. Essentially, the CPU doesn't power up unless you need it.

Of course, there are many other things that eat CPU that the vendor is responsible for optimizing, which they may overlook for a DTR but trick an ultra-portable out with. Nice, bright IPS screens come to mind :)
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:23 pm

Gnyff wrote:
Althernai wrote:After seeing the real-life battery time, I've grown disillusioned with it. You only get around 3 hours. The Dell guy on a forum I frequent promised 6, but I should have known it is too good to be true.


I've always considered the battery as more or less an UPS. So I wasn't even considering the 9-cell batteries (though the fact that they reputedly don't protrude from the back makes them a lot more tempting...).
Anyways, I'm OK with needing to plug in high-performance laptops when the performance is needed. But I'm still a bit puzzled that all the vendors of high-end notebooks does not implement a "long battery life mode". Didn't look into the processors, but ie. disabling a few cores (and still down clock as usual), turning off the graphics card completely and using an Intel HD from the processor shouldn't be that hard... Would be great for office apps and when off the power grid!


Lenovo does actually implement a "long battery life mode." Asus has one too. For Lenovo it's called Battery Stretch. Even without it, my ThinkPad W520 (specs top line in my signature) can get 7-8 hours with screen brightness turned down a bit and running on the integrated graphics. I can get ~2 hours when I'm maxing processor and the discrete graphics. It has a 9-cell 94 Watt-hour battery, and it does stick out, but it has fantastic battery life.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:44 pm

Image

My first shot of a new desktop configuration, complete with the mess of multiple projects (don't hate!).

The second monitor from the right is an HP ZR30w, a nice 30" IPS 2560x1600 panel that sees double duty as a photography monitor and a gaming monitor. The other four are all TN displays, with the left-most one the 'cheapest', a Hanns-G. The top one of the stacked pair in the middle is inverted, and the right-most one is an old Samsung 204b, turned 90 degrees to the right in portrait.

The point here is that TN monitors can excel in any number of situations as long as their shortcomings are accounted for in your decision process, like any other technology that isn't 'perfect' at what it does. My HP 30" is also not 'perfect', but literally nothing is for gaming.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:16 am

That's a very nice setup you have there Airmantharp. I have something similar as your two rightmost monitors.
Dell u3011 for main screen with a 24" BenQ FPW241 on the right in portrait mode.

Use the Dell in Native mode with a colorimeter for my photography work then put it into sRGB mode för gaming. Works quite well. How are the ghosting and such on the ZR30?

I was at a friends place last week and tried gaming on a 120Hz monitor... and boy, there is a difference between something like the u3011 and a 120Hz TN for gaming, not framerate wise that much considering I game at native resolution, but the clarity and "blur" you have slower monitors becomes apparant once you try a very fast monitor. Personally, I wouldnt trade the color accurucy of my 30" for that right now, but it did make me wish I could have another monitor infront to pull down only for gaming.

Otherwise, I can only agree with Airmantharp, as long as you account for your needs in the decision process, just buy what you need and what will work for you.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:43 pm

The ZR30w is basically the U3011 with less input lag; about a frame to a frame and a half faster depending on the transitions. It's also sRGB only, which along with the decreased input lag from lack of on-board processing are why I bought it instead of the U3011.
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Re: Value of IPS display?

Postposted on Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:06 pm

I havent found the input-lag to be of any trouble at all when gaming for me personally, but I certainly wouldnt want to loose the AdobeRGB+ color-space I use for photo editing. Thanks for the info though.
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