TR Forums

destroy.all.monsters · Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:49 am

FireGryphon has stated some truly ignorant and wrongheaded statements, not to mention offensive, about the nature of introversion. Most of the people that I know that are introverted are powered by ideas and not by their love of hearing the sound of their voice. Not to mention that like most things it is something everyone has in degrees. I'd argue that anyone that derives pleasure from reading is at least partially introverted.

Extroversion also has a tendency to cover up the fact that many of the people that behave in that way just don't like themselves and constantly need attention to keep that at bay.

It's not a good/bad dichotomy either way.

TaBoVilla · Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:13 am

Buub wrote:
Personally, I've found far more satisfaction with my wife who's into cars, motorcycles, hiking, camping, and in general living than if she were geeky. She helps prevent me from crawling into my shell, and it doesn't hurt to get away from the computer from time to time.

It helps that she's smart and understands technology, but our common ground is mostly the stuff that's not geek-related. The first step might be to discover what you really like to do that has nothing to do with technology. It might be a fun adventure.

I absolutely support this opinion. My significant other and I share common grounds on things other than technology (on my side) and girly stuff (on her side=), that makes the whole experience way more interesting than going the easy way and trying to match your partner's likes to yours (easy for you, one might think, but the whole experience ends up being shallower IMO)

Take this example: wife goes to see black swan, I passed on that one. She comes back and convinces me to watch the movie, I watch it and sorta liked it but then I tell her: "have you seen Fight Club?.." of course she hasn't seen it (being girly and all, lol).. later we see it together, she loves it! ..you discover things all the time you didn't know you could like! that's the benefit of being with someone who has different likings than your own.

More important than looking for a nerdy girl (in order to blindly match your likings and think that it'll be any different from any other woman out there when it comes to troublesome situations and giving you room, avoiding fights, etc) is finding a person who is tolerant enough to understand you like certain things and activities she might not like or appreciate entirely, but admires you for who you are, and at the same time, YOU give something in return in the shape of tolerance and understanding that she might not be exactly into geeky stuff, and learn to provide her with attentions and appreciation for who she is: another human being with different emotions, dreams and goals, who is whiling to share them, with you. =)

DeadOfKnight · Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:17 am

destroy.all.monsters wrote:
FireGryphon has stated some truly ignorant and wrongheaded statements, not to mention offensive, about the nature of introversion. Most of the people that I know that are introverted are powered by ideas and not by their love of hearing the sound of their voice. Not to mention that like most things it is something everyone has in degrees. I'd argue that anyone that derives pleasure from reading is at least partially introverted.

Extroversion also has a tendency to cover up the fact that many of the people that behave in that way just don't like themselves and constantly need attention to keep that at bay.

It's not a good/bad dichotomy either way.

When I think of introversion I think of most of your dialogue taking place within you, whereas extroversion is a desire to interact with others.

By this definition we go back and forth between them depending on our moods, however we may still lean one way more than the other.

TaBoVilla wrote:
Buub wrote:
Personally, I've found far more satisfaction with my wife who's into cars, motorcycles, hiking, camping, and in general living than if she were geeky. She helps prevent me from crawling into my shell, and it doesn't hurt to get away from the computer from time to time.

It helps that she's smart and understands technology, but our common ground is mostly the stuff that's not geek-related. The first step might be to discover what you really like to do that has nothing to do with technology. It might be a fun adventure.

I absolutely support this opinion. My significant other and I share common grounds on things other than technology (on my side) and girly stuff (on her side=), that makes the whole experience way more interesting than going the easy way and trying to match your partner's likes to yours (easy for you, one might think, but the whole experience ends up being shallower IMO)

Take this example: wife goes to see black swan, I passed on that one. She comes back and convinces me to watch the movie, I watch it and sorta liked it but then I tell her: "have you seen Fight Club?.." of course she hasn't seen it (being girly and all, lol).. later we see it together, she loves it! ..you discover things all the time you didn't know you could like! that's the benefit of being with someone who has different likings than your own.

More important than looking for a nerdy girl (in order to blindly match your likings and think that it'll be any different from any other woman out there when it comes to troublesome situations and giving you room, avoiding fights, etc) is finding a person who is tolerant enough to understand you like certain things and activities she might not like or appreciate entirely, but admires you for who you are, and at the same time, YOU give something in return in the shape of tolerance and understanding that she might not be exactly into geeky stuff, and learn to provide her with attentions and appreciation for who she is: another human being with different emotions, dreams and goals, who is whiling to share them, with you. =)

What you say makes sense, but hey, maybe I just have a thing for nerdy girls. I kinda do like the whole librarian look. But seriously I'm very open-minded.

I guess I've just had trouble finding a girl who is as well, who would enjoy doing a lot of the things I love with me. It might just be easier to find a geek.

destroy.all.monsters · Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:50 am

I don't disagree necessarily with your analysis DeadofKnight I'm just saying that there's been a fair amount of research and thought into intro- and extroversion and when someone attributes it to mere selfishness, despite the preponderance of the evidence elsewhere I find it offensive. Much like how the far right tries to paint homosexuals as child molesters, or the statements in the 1950s and prior that blacks were incapable of utilizing their brains for anything. It comes across as a smear - intentional or otherwise.

Even the barest reading of Myers Briggs can see that it isn't about selfishness and that often times introverts are more intune with others than extroverts - just that it costs them more.

Back to the topic at hand: I think a lot of good advice has been given here - and I think you can pretty much pick and choose approaches and groups that fit your needs. Of course if you live in a more rural area that might make things a bit more complicated. Oh two places I forgot - craigslist.org and okcupid.com. I've heard of datingdna.com but never used it. The previous mention of gk2gk.com seems like a really good idea depending on your geographical area.

@ Tabovilla - you make some good points. However, your significant other wanted to drag you to Black Swan and not a Disney flick or empty-headed romcom and for that she definitely deserves some cred, geek or not. That she liked Fight Club is even a bit geeky I'd say though certainly that's arguable. She probably reads actual literature too instead of People magazine or some retarded detective fiction (I do not mean all crime fic is bad). All I'm trying to say is that she's a bit out of the norm at least for women in the states.

DeadOfKnight · Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:09 am

destroy.all.monsters wrote:
depending on your geographical area.

That's another issue. I have browsed through dating sites but it just seems that here in Hawaii there really aren't many geeks, lol.

As soon as I get out of the Marines and go to college it should be a lot easier to connect to other people, hopefully that fixes it.

Crayon Shin Chan · Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:39 am

I also like it when my girlfriend isn't into the same things as me. In fact, I find that to be a turn on in itself. And it's just as fertile grounds for conversation.

bluepiranha · Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:41 am

Crayon Shin Chan wrote:
I also like it when my girlfriend isn't into the same things as me. In fact, I find that to be a turn on in itself. And it's just as fertile grounds for conversation.

QFT.

My girlfriend and I have such differing interests, attitudes and even tastes in food, but it hasn't stopped us from finding a middle ground. Been at it for almost three years now, too. Having too many similar interests might actually be detrimental, in my book.

Neutronbeam · Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:11 am

Spyder22446688 wrote:
DeadOfKnight wrote:
Does anyone have any advice? Has anyone hit the jackpot and found where they all hang out?

During my commute to/from work, I walk through the Washington Trade & Convention Center in Seattle. The Convention Center routinely houses Pax, Comic-Con, and a ton of other tech/nerd oriented conferences. I am always amazed at some of the hot nerd babes present at these things, especially those wearing tiny little costumes. I would suggest finding similar conventions in your neck of the woods. Said conferences are a total gimme for flirting and smalltalk.

Those hot nerd babes are called BOOTH BABES, and they are PAID to be there. [must stop laughing....

]

yogibbear · Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:40 am

Pffft you guys aren't geeky. You are mainstream.

Reading fight club before it was even released as a movie is geeky.

FireGryphon · Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:54 am

destroy.all.monsters wrote:
FireGryphon has stated some truly ignorant and wrongheaded statements, not to mention offensive, about the nature of introversion. Most of the people that I know that are introverted are powered by ideas and not by their love of hearing the sound of their voice. Not to mention that like most things it is something everyone has in degrees. I'd argue that anyone that derives pleasure from reading is at least partially introverted.

Extroversion also has a tendency to cover up the fact that many of the people that behave in that way just don't like themselves and constantly need attention to keep that at bay.

It's not a good/bad dichotomy either way.

Being powered by ideas doesn't automatically mean introversion. In fact, it typically means the opposite: that you are extroverted. An extroverted person is powered by things other than himself, whereas an introverted person only thinks of himself. It has nothing to do with the behavior you exhibit, it has to do with the behavior within yourself, for lack of a better phrase. Neither label is good or bad so there's no value judgement here.

These definitions are also dependent on culture. Cultures may have a different perspectives on psychology and place values on this, but in clinical western psychology there's no value tended or offense meant, so don't take it that way, please.

bthylafh · Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:02 am

FireGryphon wrote:
whereas an introverted person only thinks of himself.

Wrong. Do try to understand the difference between introversion and extroversion before pontificating.

FireGryphon · Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:39 am

bthylafh wrote:
FireGryphon wrote:
whereas an introverted person only thinks of himself.

Wrong. Do try to understand the difference between introversion and extroversion before pontificating.

Any psych textbook will agree with me, and the easiest way to cite it on the 'net is the Wikipedia article on extroversion and introversion which also agrees. On what basis do you disagree?

Glorious · Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:43 am

FireGryphon wrote:
On what basis do you disagree?

You just equated selfishness with introversion.

Regardless of the truth of the proposition, the fact that you seem genuinely surprised that people object to such a characterization is itself a testament to how you probably don't know what you're talking about.

Krogoth · Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:51 am

/thread

bthylafh · Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:54 am

Courtesy the Encyclopedia of a Thousand Lies which you cited:

Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[3] Introverts are people whose energy tends to expand through reflection and dwindle during interaction.[4] Introverts tend to be more reserved and less outspoken in large groups. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, music, drawing, tinkering, playing video games, watching movies and plays, and using computers, along with some more reserved outdoor activities such as fishing.[citation needed] In fact, social networking sites have been a thriving home for introverts in the 21st century, where introverts are free from the formalities of social conduct and may become more comfortable blogging about personal feelings they would not otherwise disclose.[citation needed] The archetypal artist, writer, sculptor, engineer, composer, and inventor are all highly introverted. An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though he or she may enjoy interactions with close friends. Trust is usually an issue of significance: a virtue of utmost importance to an introvert choosing a worthy companion. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate, especially observed in developing children and adolescents.[5] Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement. They are more analytical before speaking.[6]
Introversion is not the same as being shy or being a social outcast. Introverts prefer solitary activities over social ones, whereas shy people (who may be extraverts at heart) avoid social encounters out of fear,[7] and the social outcast has little choice in the matter of his or her solitude.

I don't see something in there about equating that to selfishness.

FireGryphon · Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:06 am

First you cited:

Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[3]

Then, you said:

bthylafh wrote:
I don't see something in there about equating that to selfishness.

Thus I provide: if you're wholly or predominantly concerned and interested in yourself, then by definition, you are selfish:

Merriam-Webster's dictionary wrote:
self·ish
adj \ˈsel-fish\
1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself

Glorious · Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:17 am

FireGryphon wrote:
Thus I provide: if you're wholly or predominantly concerned and interested in yourself, then by definition, you are selfish:

That's not what wikipedia said! It said "concerned with and interested in one's own mental life."

*YOU* have defined that as selfish, not wikipedia or anyone else here.

So, according to Firegryphon:

A musician who prefers to spend their time composing music in their own head: Selfish.
An architect who prefers to spend their time designing structures in their own head: Selfish.
A mathematician who prefers to spend their time contemplating numbers & formulas: Selfish.
Likewise philosophers, theologians, artists, etc...

Just think of all those selfish people like Newton, Mozart, Wren, etc... :roll:

yogibbear · Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:27 am

FireGryphon, don't harp on the point, you're simply wrong. Move on.

Introvert != selfish.

End of story.

I have no clue where you came up with that from but whoever told you that and locked it into your memory is an idiot and needs to be removed from your "i will remember what this person told me" database. They are a bad kernel.

FireGryphon · Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:37 am

Okay, you all know better.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

Glorious · Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:52 am

FireGryphon wrote:
Hey, read the definition, and study it a bit.

I did. Did you? Do you see the word "selfish" in there?

Just because someone prefers the company of ideas to the company of men doesn't mean that they are selfish, and it's stupid to argue otherwise. For instance, what if someone's mental life is dominated by thoughts and concerns for other people?

The definition you gave merely said that they prefer their mental life, in other words, thinking. It doesn't say the first thing about what the introvert is actually thinking about. No, that part sprung solely from your own unwarranted interpolation.

FireGryphon wrote:
Are you sure you want to go by common knowledge on this one?

Who says we are? You? Why should we care? You can't even read what wikipedia says without inserting a little of your own "common knowledge."

FireGryphon wrote:
It seems we need an intro to psychology to continue talking about this, but as that's not going to happen, you can continue thinking what you want to think.

Well, we know that you've chosen that course of action, surely. You'll clearly continue thinking what you think despite how incredibly ignorant it is.

Don't worry though, I think we've chosen differently.

FireGryphon wrote:
I'm, just a bit disappointed that there was such a harsh reaction to my claim.

Yes, yes, everyone should revel in whatever bits of ignorant libel you deign to provide us. :roll:

FireGryphon wrote:
I mean, whether I'm right or wrong, there's a common politeness and sense of inquiry I (wrongly) expect from people

Common politeness doesn't start with calling an entire class of people "selfish" and inquiry is not baldly misstating what wikipedia has to say about the subject.

bthylafh · Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:00 pm

...and as usual, Glorious just can't let the other guy have the last word. :roll:

Glorious · Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:06 pm

bthylafh wrote:
...and as usual, Glorious just can't let the other guy have the last word.

He's free to say whatever he likes whenever he likes. I did not lock the thread nor do I have any special influence on anyone who could.

bthylafh · Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:13 pm

He said that he didn't want to continue the discussion, but you just couldn't let it go. You've done that before when mods tell us to collectively shut up about something, and it's pretty immature.

Glorious · Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:41 pm

bthylafh wrote:
He said that he didn't want to continue the discussion, but you just couldn't let it go.

He said that only after I was already responding to the first thing he said.

bthylafh wrote:
You've done that before when mods tell us to collectively shut up about something, and it's pretty immature.

Oh? Are you a mod now?

If not, so what?

Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:49 pm

Can everyone kindly stop?

Thanks for listening.

trackerben · Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:41 pm

If you're fortunate to find a truly appealing woman, she will excite a desire for respect from you. This comes from enjoying kept promises as much as shared experiences. Don't just settle for someone who lets the geek in you lounge out. Seek another person who draws you out of your skin and makes you feel somehow unworthy of her attention and chances are you're in for something special.

My 2 coins plus tip

sweatshopking · Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:13 pm

Krogoth wrote:

/thread

OMG Krog's that's hilarious. that's exactly what i was thinking!!!! hi five, brother!

Common Sensei · Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:42 pm

FireGryphon wrote:
Just look for girls in the regular places. If you meet enough of them you'll eventually be able to figure out if they have the qualities for which you are looking.

DeadOfKnight wrote:
Vrock wrote:
'Geek Dating' is an oxymoron.

Being a geek doesn't automatically make you introverted. And even if the odds say it does, being introverted certainly doesn't make you a lifelong hermit either.

Introverted doesn't mean what you think it means. An introvert gets his 'energy' from within himself so he is primarily focused on himself. He'll talk about himself, make decisions based on his needs alone, etc. An extrovert gets his 'energy' from other people. He's more concerned with the needs of others and takes the group into account when making his decisions. It would make poetic sense if selfish people lived by themselves, but the fact of the matter is that there are many people who seem friendly but don't give a darn about others. When people use introvert and extrovert in common parlance what they really mean is how shy or afraid someone is.

Introvert doesn't mean what you think it means. An introvert isn't someone who's egocentric. If you enjoy being in large groups, but when there mostly talk with others about yourself, that extaversion. Introverts tend to generate their energy and feel most comfortable while engaged in introspection. Extraverts feel more comfortable and content when gaining gratification from or with others. Egomaniacs and those with narcissistic personality disorder tend to be extraverts, though it's not exclusive.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/introversion

Meadows · Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:34 pm

Now that terminology has been settled, thrice by now, how about getting the thread back on the correct railway?

Contingency · Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:48 pm

I derive my energy to deal with day-to-day situations from screaming at cats. Introvert or extrovert?

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