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mike27277 · Fri Apr 12, 2002 6:08 pm

Hi, i have am running on win xp and the other comp has win 98. Im using two nic cards one linksys and the other is a generic one. I have cable internet coming in through ATT and I want to to share that also. The main goal was to do file sharing. I have a ethernet switch. Niether computer sees eachother. Also, I can only access internet on my main pc with the win xp. I had internet on that already.Anyone that knows what to do or think they might please reply or get a hold of me. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks everyone.

Mike D.

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Speed · Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:04 pm

mike27277, when you say "niether computer sees eachother", do you mean that you don't see both computers when you look in Network Neighborhood?

Do both machines have:
1. A common networking protocol installed and configured? If they're both using TCP/IP (which is required for Internet access), can you ping one machine from the other?
2. Client for Microsoft Networking installed and configured? If the two machines are assigned different workgroups, they will not show up in the other's Network Neighborhood.

mike27277 · Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:07 am

Yes what i meant is that I cant see the other computer in network neighborhood.
Also Im sorry but Im not sure how to ping eachother. Please tell me how. Also is thier anything special to do being that both computers are on two diferent OS?
Thanks for all the help.

Mike D.

Speed · Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:21 am

Ping is a command. Open up a command prompt window and type "ping " and the IP address of the other computer.

If you don't know the IP addresses, run WINIPCFG on Windows 98, and IPCONFIG (from command prompt) in XP.

It would help to know what networking protocols and clients you have installed on each system. Can you list them?

NeXus 6 · Sat Apr 13, 2002 10:38 am

The easiest way I found how to set up a network at home was by using a router. Then what I did was use the Network Setup Wizard on the Windows XP machine, then on the Windows 98 machine, and then configured the router and rebooted both machines. Use a router from either Netgear or Linksys and you'll find it's much easier to set up.

Speed · Sat Apr 13, 2002 10:47 am

NeXus 6, don't you think that it's total overkill to use a router when you have only two machines? You don't use a 40' semi trailer truck to get groceries, do you?

NeXus 6 · Sat Apr 13, 2002 11:12 am

Speed wrote:
NeXus 6, don't you think that it's total overkill to use a router when you have only two machines? You don't use a 40' semi trailer truck to get groceries, do you?

Not really since a router allows you to share the same IP address on several machines. I couldn't get it to work with a hub since I had a static IP address. Yeah, I could have bought another one but why?

dolemitecomputers · Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:53 pm

I agree. Gives you some hardware firewall protection and easy NAT setup for internet sharing.

sroylance · Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:45 pm

A router would be a good idea, and they are pretty cheap now. If you want to avoid buying anything, you could use ICS on the XP machine. I've heard a lot of people gripe about ICS, and I've had some troubles, but it's meant for a situtation like yours.

You will need two NICs in the XP machine, leave the cable modem conencted to the original one and connect the second one to the switch. If you follow the instruction for ICS it will make it so the two machines can communicate with each other, and both can access the Interet.

Another alternative is to get a cheap computer (anything over a P90 will be great) and use it as a router running Linux. This is complicated and difficult, but if you have some patience and are willing read some documentation you _will_ learn a lot.

Speed · Sun Apr 14, 2002 3:28 am

I see what you're talking about, NeXus 6. You're thinking of DHCP and NAT, not a router. Maybe we should take care of the problem at hand first...

Mr Bill · Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:04 pm

At my last job, we had a Win98 machine that could not see or be seen on the LAN even though he could get mail. I was told that some PCI NIC's interact funny with Win98 and make it invisible to the local LAN neighborhood. I've also heard that it only takes one unhappy Win98 machine to make all Win98's in the LAN neighborhood have the same problem.

Speed · Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:28 pm

Mr Bill, I hear a lot of theories like that from people who don't know how the Windows naming system works.

Just because you don't see a computer's name in Netwrok Neighborhood doesn't mean that it's "invisible to the local LAN neighborhood." There are certain rules that apply. For a Windows 98 machine to be seen in Network Neighborhood, some conditions must be met:

1. Client for Microsoft Networks must be installed on both machines.
2. Both machines must belong to the same workgroup or domain.
3. The machine to be seen must have file and print sharing enabled.
4. If the machines are separated by a router, IP must be installed, as well as NetBIOS over IP, and a WINS server must be configured.
5. If there is no WINS server, there must be a browse master on that network, and "LM Announce" must be turned on. To keep broadcasts down, competent administrators will configure all desktops to not participate in browsing.

To further complicate matters, as of Windows 2000, Windows is transitioning from NetBIOS naming to DNS. If DNS is configured with a different hostname than the NetBIOS name, much confusion will ensue. This is why businesses are practicing false economy when they try to save money by hiring unqualified administrators who don't know how to administer large networks. There's a lot to Windows systems that plain users just don't understand.

mike27277 · Sun Apr 14, 2002 8:26 pm

Hi everyone, I always considered myself good with computers but im stuck. All you replys have been helpful but I havent solved my problem. I couldnt find the PING thing and I thought maybe it was my switch cuz i had a cheap one. I went out and got a linksys and still no luck. I am about to format my main computer for reasons other than the networking. IF someone with enough patience would tell me step by step what to do. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks everyone.

I went into the win98 command prompt and it said that it sent out info and didnt recieve it back. I also checked out everything under the network area in the control panel. Please tell me what info you need. I turned on Lm announce. On the win xp xomp I ping the win98 and it sent for packets and 3 out of 4 were lost. Please tell me what to do from her. Should I get rid of my switch. Although Ive been told thats the way to go. One last thing is that when my win xp comp is off, the other one gets connection to the internet. Well looking forward to hearing from someone soon.

MIke D.

I currently have 2 NIC cards (Inte+linksys). And a switch by linksys. Main computer is win xp and seccondary comp has win98 2nd edition.

Despite · Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:06 am

this'll be a little off-topic since I don't have the patience to walk this guy through his problem, but I just have to say this-

Speed, it's good to see that at least one other person in this world understands Windows networking. (I've been wondering about that for the last 3 years or so.)

St. Babu · Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:32 am

This is why businesses are practicing false economy when they try to save money by hiring unqualified administrators who don't know how to administer large networks.

That's why I cringe every time I hear one of those "Got a dead-end job? Get into networking!" commercials on the radio. As an MCP, I hate it that companies want to hire some window washer that went to a prep-you-for-the-test-not-the-real-world learning center at bottom dollar rather than someone with actual experience for a little more. And then they wonder why their network is crap!

Speed · Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:12 am

mike27277, it appears that you don't have your computers set up for home networking, and your ISP doesn't support more than one machine. The most straightforward thing to do is to ask your ISP for another IP address for your second computer. The ISP may or may not want to do this, and may charge extra to do so.

Another thing you can do is to go out and buy one of those combination firewall/NAT/DHCP boxes that NeXus 6 mistakenly called a router. (Real routers don't do most of those things, and the only router that you need is in your cable modem.) If all you want to accomplish is to get things running, this will be the quickest (but most expensive) way to go.

If you want to experiment and learn, or if you want to spend the least, I suggest that you get a second NIC for your XP box and set up Internet connection sharing. When you decide which way you want to go with Internet sharing, somebody here can help you get it set up.

The file sharing problem is probably because you have two computers that rely on DHCP for configuration, and AT&T only configures one machine, so the second never gets an IP address. The long-term solution depends on your choice of Internet connection, but what you can do right away is to find something other than IP for file sharing.

Do you have the install CDs for both operating systems? I don't want to get you to make any network changes without them, because you will need some install files.

resteves2 · Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:17 am

A router would not be overkill, and would probably be your best solution. I would take back the switch you just bought, and get a Linksys or Netgear, or whatever, router. They are pretty cheap, just be sure you get one with 4 ports built in.

This will allow you to set up the machines to get their IP addresses from the router (as it will be running DHCP) and should make the networking a bit easier. Plus, it will make it much easier to share that cable connection, rather than having to buy another NIC and require one machine to always be one, and have to act like a software router.

Be aware of your cable companies policies. Most only allow one IP address; but some tie it to your MAC address. If that is the case, look for a router that will allow MAC spoofing. That is why I went with the Linksys, since it would pretend to have the same MAC address as the comp that used to be directly connected.

To supply us with more info, from the start menu, go to 'run' and type winipcfg (win98) or ipconfig and let us know what the current IP addresses are. Also go to the network control panels, find out if you have the TCP/IP protocols set up for your NIC's, and what comp name and workgroup each one is.

And of course, checking the cables is always a good idea. Since one comp is hooked to the internet, you can just keep switching out patch cables to make sure they all work. (you could even switch NIC's to be sure they both work, that that is more of a hassle.)

To 'ping' just go to the start>programs>ms-dos prompt. that will bring you to a command line. simply type
>ping 168.192.1.44

where the number is the IP address for your other machine. (found using winipcfg or ipconfig)
if it times out, then it is most likely a problem with the hardware

good luck.

edit: they all call it MAC cloning (instead of spoofing) and you can check your NIC by pinging 127.0.0.1 I believe; though I am a bit sketchy on what that exactly accomplishes.

Speed · Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:42 am

Thanks Despite, I guess that I'm the curious type. Things were a lot easier back in the days of NetBEUI! The irony is that I learned it all while trying to get computers to appear in Network Neighborhood, but discovered that you really don't want desktop PCs showing up when they use file servers. It's nice at home, but on a large network it just makes things slow.

St. Babu, I hear you! I also know of plenty of people who got into IS through the "legacy" route, like NetWare or even mainframe jobs. These guys are the real trouble, because they have the seniority to get people to listen to them, but they don't keep up on the state of the art. When they make a wrong choice, management isn't interested in hearing why it isn't going to work, until it means more work and ill will.

zgirl · Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:51 am

I'm assuming the two PCs and the cable modem are all connected to switch and not each other. Am I correct?

Also what is the IP configuration of the PCs? What I want is the IP address, subnet mask and default gateway for both of them. IP could be configured wrong here.

Resteves2 pinging the 127.0.0.1 address is a loopback test for the network card. If the OS, driver and card are all working correctly that address will reply. Try pinging that address after you pull you network cable out. It will still respond. I've had bad drivers or cards in a PC that look to be working but when I've tried to ping the 127 address I didn't get a response. Usually due to a failed card. Once in a while it was a driver issue.

zgirl · Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:18 am

Heh, I know what you talking about there Speed, I hear you. What I think is worse then that though is the newbies that I've seen get hired you have absolutely no experience. I remember once when I was about 24, in '98 I think, when the company I was at was hiring some green kids that were either just out of college or still in. Anyway the I was "training" on of these guys while on site, you know show him the ropes. He's sitting at the server (NT) and I tell him: "Go to the command prompt and run xxxxx (I don't remember what I asked him) and he looked me right in the eye and said" "Go to what?" I looked at him and said: "The command prompt." He look right back at me and said: "I don't know what that is." I think my jaw hit the floor. I had to explain to him what the command interface in NT was and how to use it. Not to mention he really never had even used DOS before and he was finishing up his CIS degree soon!

My opinion is there are a lot of people who know how to use a computer, but they don't know how to work with them. And they think they can just jump on the IT bandwagon.

T_Dawg · Mon Apr 15, 2002 11:20 am

OK, this is probably not the issue, but it caught me out this past weekend when I was building a new machine and couldn't figure out why I couldn't see my other box in Network Neighborhod, nor PING the other machine, when both of them were successfully receiving IP configuration from my DSL/cable Router (ok DHCP, NAT/firewall before Speed corrects me :wink:

). Turns out I forgot I was running Zone Alarm (software firewall) on the machine I was trying to see - and of course it was blocking port 139 (Windows Networking).

One blinding flash of the obvious later I was up and running. Just a potential problem that could cause the symptoms you're seeing. Don't know why I still use Zone Alarm behind my NAT, but I do like knowing which programs are sending info out of my machine at times (damn you MS media player, damn you)

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