Steam price rant

How we justify all that high-dollar hardware.

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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:50 am

RAMBO wrote:Anyone know of a starcraft 2 sale or discounted price?


Dont hold your breath until a release date for the XPac is announced. Blizzard has controlled their pricing for the most part and only reduce prices upon the announcement of the next expansion. HOWEVER, every year they have a fall/Thanksgiving/winter/Christmas sale on all their products it usually lasts only 7 days so keep an eye on battle.net for it.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:57 pm

OMG STEAM HAS TOTAL WAR: SHOGUN 2 FOR 24.99 AND AMAZON HAS IT FOR 25.97!!!!111elevntyonehundredandeleven THOSE THIEVING, RIPOFF, MONOPOLIST SONS OF GOATS AT AMAZON @#%^!#%NERD&@RAGE%&
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:14 pm

SEGA CLASSICS. Streets of Rage and Streets of Rage II for $1.75, plus 8 other games! Sold. Steam is the best, why get mad?
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:16 pm

Steam has decent services but crappy prices. The sales don't happen until much much later then the release.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:29 pm

RAMBO wrote:Steam has decent services but crappy prices. The sales don't happen until much much later then the release.


Never took a business class, did you?
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:43 pm

RAMBO wrote:Steam has decent services but crappy prices. The sales don't happen until much much later then the release.

Or an English class. That sentence has one obvious grammatical error, and "crappy" is not even a word. :lol:

Try these alternatives to "crappy" that you will find in a dictionary:
Appalling, atrocious, awful, dreadful, frightful, ghastly, grisly, gruesome, hideous, horrendous, horrible, horrid, horrifying, lurid, macabre, monstrous, nightmarish, shocking, terrible, dire, direful, fearful, fearsome, forbidding, formidable, frightening, hair-raising, terrifying; abhorrent, deplorable, disagreeable, disgusting, distasteful, loathsome, nauseating, obnoxious, offensive, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, sickening; abominable, evil, foul, heinous, noxious, odious, unspeakable or vile.

My public service is done... :wink:
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:00 pm

rcs2k4 wrote:
RAMBO wrote:Steam has decent services but crappy prices. The sales don't happen until much much later then the release.

Or an English class. That sentence has one obvious grammatical error, and "crappy" is not even a word. :lol:

Try these alternatives to "crappy" that you will find in a dictionary:
Appalling, atrocious, awful, dreadful, frightful, ghastly, grisly, gruesome, hideous, horrendous, horrible, horrid, horrifying, lurid, macabre, monstrous, nightmarish, shocking, terrible, dire, direful, fearful, fearsome, forbidding, formidable, frightening, hair-raising, terrifying; abhorrent, deplorable, disagreeable, disgusting, distasteful, loathsome, nauseating, obnoxious, offensive, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, sickening; abominable, evil, foul, heinous, noxious, odious, unspeakable or vile.

My public service is done... :wink:

Me fail English, that's unpossible
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:03 pm

RAMBO wrote:Another troll-another forum, nice going off topic to moron. Didn't have the balls to say that you are against my view, you fail at life.

And you rise to it - Take a joke and move on... :wink:
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:06 pm

rcs2k4 wrote:
RAMBO wrote:Another troll-another forum, nice going off topic to moron. Didn't have the balls to say that you are against my view, you fail at life.

And you rise to it - Take a joke and move on... :wink:

me too drunk
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:43 pm

Wish we had votes in these threads - rcs2k4 would be downvoted into oblivion.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:06 pm

Them charging more for digital copies is absurd. It's all because of a lack of competition. Sure, there are other digital distribution sites like Direct2Drive, but Steam has a lion's share of the market and their prices reflect that. Mostly they run sales to get people to buy games they wouldn't otherwise buy. I suppose if you're willing to wait a year after a game is released for them to run a sale, then you can get a good deal. Most people aren't willing to do that.

Mafia II is selling for $29.99 USD on Steam and $11 on Amazon. A few weeks ago it was selling for $7 on Amazon. And that's despite the fact that even if you purchase the boxed version of the game, it still requires Steam activation.

Let's look at some other examples.

Bioshock: $7.98 (Amazon) and $19.99 (Steam)
Bioshock 2: $6.50 (Amazon) and $19.99 (Steam)
Assassin's Creed: $8.89 and $19.99
Assassin's Creed 2: $14.40 and $19.99
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood: $32.99 and $39.99
Batman Arkham Asylum: $10.49 and $29.99
Battlefield 2 Complete Collection: $11.50 and $19.99
Battlefield 3: $59.99 and *not available on Steam*
Call of Duty: $8.89 and $19.99
Call of Duty 2: $11.82 and $19.99
Call of Duty Black Ops: $37.49 and $59.99
Civilization IV Complete Edition: $23.99 (Amazon digital download version), $9.43 (UK boxed version) and $54.96 (purchased separately as there's no Complete Edition pack on Steam)
Civilization V: $21.90 and $49.99

This is really quite shameful. We're not talking about a 10 or 20% price difference. On a lot of games, Steam is 100 - 200% more expensive.

There's heavy competition among retailers for the boxed editions of games, but with digital distribution it's the complete opposite. That's really a shame because my main hope of digital distribution was that it would lower the price on games, since publishers wouldn't have to pay for the disc, the packaging, etc. It doesn't have to be this way. Digital copies should be cheaper. Look at Amazon and their e-books. Kindle versions are always cheaper than the physical copies. And that's the way it should be with games. Instead, we have digital distributors selling new release games for the same price (and sometimes even more) than places like Amazon.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:09 pm

We've been over this. If you buy when Steam is on sale, it's cheaper. If not, it's not. What's your point?
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:08 pm

I like steam quite a lot (http://steamcommunity.com/id/combatineffective/games?tab=all). Since many of you don't see how someone could like steam, I thought I'd provide some enlightenment - not that there hasn't been plenty of good reasons proffered already.

1. Steam sales: buying games awhile after release is usually just fine as far as I'm concerned; I can and will pay full price for major multiplayer titles because getting into a game for the first time when others have been playing it for months can be a little rough.

2. Persistent backup, anytime/any computer access: I really like that if I build a new computer, I can just download games at my leisure, the steam cloud often keeps my prior game saves. Try backing up 950 GB to DVDs. Imagine 340 DVDs of games. It would take up masses of space and good luck finding the right one easily unless I want to spend half my time organizing them.

3. Games are always up to date: Automatic updates are so, so nice. They have drastically changed patch release schedules in my opinion. Red Orchestra 2 has been patched probably 5 times since release (not saying this is a good thing, but what a pain in the posterior if I had to go download and install each patch manually). And now, you can even check for video card driver updates through steam; what a great idea!

4. Friends and community: starting a clan, making friends, finding a game that has friends in it, and starting a group/clan was never easier. The community features are a strong component of steam.

5. Offline play: I don't have to have an internet connection; I can just start steam in offline mode and play to my heart's content.

6. Indie titles: without steam, I would never have tried many of the indie titles that were great fun (zombie driver, flight control hd, defense grid, nation red, magicka, etc.)

7. Support forums: I really like that if I'm having a technical issue, I can go to the product's steam page, click on forums, and very often the answer is 2-5 minutes away.

8. It's the leader because it was the first (and for a long time only) and was well executed: steam has been constantly improved throughout its life; it started out as a place where you could buy valve games, but Gabe Newell was a visionary. I really thought the idea would flop, but the fact that people are complaining about it being the 800 lb gorilla tend to negate that.

9. Low barrier to entry: the steam executable is what, like 2 MB? Additionally, it's easier to take a chance on a sale special when you know you're paying less (I realize the sales aren't always as good as they appear), or if there's a demo it's just a couple clicks away. No worries if you buy it that you'll have one more game case to alphabetize after you'd installed and updated the game. If it wasn't that great, oh well, cost a few dollars and some bandwidth. It's surprising how many great games are out there that will surprise you though.

10. Retail CD Keys: For those games that are too expensive on steam, many can be bought retail and are accepted on steam as if you bought the game on steam. Therefore, games like Deus Ex: HR can be purchased at the Amazon price and yet you can still enjoy all of the advantages of steam if you so desire (see a list of games that support this method here: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7480-wusf-3601

11. Miscellaneous: Little touches like the system requirements, videos and screenshots all on the product page make shopping easier. Gifting is a pretty cool feature. Your game library is searchable, and the library view is configurable. Moderate system requirements mean you don't even realize steam is running (my computer's been on for about 2 days and steam has used 2 minutes of cpu time). Achievements are fun, and it's kind of interesting to compare your achievements to the masses (what percentage attained which achievements). Steamguard is a relatively new feature, but it's a great security measure that requires a code from your email address to use steam on a different computer, even if the user has the username and password (see https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1266-OAFV-8478#steamguard). Steam support has been very good in my experience. I love having all of my games in one place; no digging out the DVD and realizing I've lost the license key somewhere, or vice versa. I used to lament that all games have to be installed in one directory, but since learning of symbolic links/junctions, that's not a problem at all.

I am sure there are plenty of those reasons that are not compelling to one person or another. Feel free to comment, but just remember that your comment won't change my mind about my good experience with steam. I do understand that not everyone has had a good experience with steam, and that fact is dependent upon a lot of factors (where you live, the quality and reliability of your internet connection, exchange rates, VAT/sales tax, the rampant hijacking of accounts by clicking a untrustworthy internet link before steamguard was implemented, and who knows what else). I don't think that saying that you don't "understand" how someone would like/love steam is intellectually honest. We are all in different stages of life, situations (economic, familial, etc.), have different priorities that shape our decisions and opinions, and we may not agree with someone's reasons for appreciating something, but certainly we can understand why they might like/love it.

Peace,

Jason181 aka CombatIneffective
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:22 am

draconian wrote:Them charging more for digital copies is absurd.
Let's look at some other examples.
Bioshock: $7.98 (Amazon) and $19.99 (Steam)
Bioshock 2: $6.50 (Amazon) and $19.99 (Steam)
Assassin's Creed: $8.89 and $19.99
Assassin's Creed 2: $14.40 and $19.99
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood: $32.99 and $39.99
Batman Arkham Asylum: $10.49 and $29.99
Battlefield 2 Complete Collection: $11.50 and $19.99
Battlefield 3: $59.99 and *not available on Steam*
Call of Duty: $8.89 and $19.99
Call of Duty 2: $11.82 and $19.99
Call of Duty Black Ops: $37.49 and $59.99
Civilization IV Complete Edition: $23.99 (Amazon digital download version), $9.43 (UK boxed version) and $54.96 (purchased separately as there's no Complete Edition pack on Steam)
Civilization V: $21.90 and $49.99
This is really quite shameful. We're not talking about a 10 or 20% price difference. On a lot of games, Steam is 100 - 200% more expensive.

This. The huge price disparity between steam and a physical box is what irritates people. The physical box costs more to produce, and ship, so that should be the higher price, not steam. Steam also does not have to manage an inventory, so they have no incentive to lower prices to move a good. In fact, steam isn't even selling a good, but a digital service. That's why all the arguments for steam are about what a great "service" it is. eg:
Jason181 wrote:.... shill, shill, shill, low post count, such a wonderful service, talking points straight off a white paper, shill.

Us price complainers don't give a hoot about the service. Not a bit. They are two distinct, separate, issues, and quite frankly I prefer the GOG model, and GOG actually responds when you put in a support ticket. Steam doesn't care about your problems, you apparently waive your right to get support and service upon purchasing a product. Hopefully the problem doesn't involve the drm itself, or you're really screwed. I know I've had various problems, and valve/steam never responded. Steam also includes limited install activation drm on top of it's own drm, and I've seen several threads about it. That shouldn't happen. Steam is it's own drm, they don't need to add securom/gfwl/etc on top of it, publishers be damned.

Just to address some of the talking points:
Retail CD Keys: Only steam specified titles. They don't allow you to input just any cd key, and it's a very small list.
Offline play: HA! Steam's offline mode is notorious for not working and requiring you to log back in. Impulse has a superior offline mode that doesn't require the service to run.
Support forums: Because your not going to get support from steam itself.
Indie titles: I've bought a large amount without steam, and then made a second purchase through steam. I like having my drm free copies just in case.
Low barrier to entry: GOG's is lower.
Steam sales: the only reason I use it.
Backup: I'm quite capable of doing it myself.
Updates: sometimes I don't want to update a game. Steam isn't the only program available to force "help" you update either.
Friends: You don't need steam. Xfire and gamespy come to mind.
Every single one of the talking points can be countered. It just comes down to steam being a bundle of services that you can't get with a single program, so it's a no-effort alternative.

Regardless, this all has nothing to do with the prices. Looking at the above price list is cold hard evidence that steam is overcharging, and not competing in the slightest. That said, I'm not going to purchase overpriced games. I buy from whomever's cheapest, so as long as steam doesn't have a monopoly they're not always going to be getting my money. If more people bought elsewhere, perhaps steam would lower prices, and if the biggest reason for the steam fanaticism is the bundle of services catered to the lazy, then perhaps it is still possible for an alternative to take it's place.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:33 am

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Looking at the above price list is cold hard evidence that steam is overcharging,

And looking at my price list on the first page is cold, hard evidence that Steam isn't overcharging and is in many cases cheaper. Wait, these contradict. You know what they say, the plural of 'anecdote' isn't 'data'.
As has been said about thirty times now: Steam is cheaper during sales. Steam is more expensive outside of sales.
and not competing in the slightest.

It is competing. Gamers have decided that Steam adds enough value to the games to be worth the extra cost, and so they choose it. Others feel otherwise, and don't buy from Steam.
Also, note that being uncompetitive and being anticompetitive are not the same thing.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:49 am

draconian wrote:There's heavy competition among retailers for the boxed editions of games, but with digital distribution it's the complete opposite. That's really a shame because my main hope of digital distribution was that it would lower the price on games, since publishers wouldn't have to pay for the disc, the packaging, etc. It doesn't have to be this way. Digital copies should be cheaper. Look at Amazon and their e-books. Kindle versions are always cheaper than the physical copies. And that's the way it should be with games. Instead, we have digital distributors selling new release games for the same price (and sometimes even more) than places like Amazon.


If only we had the ability to choose where to buy our games, and in what format...

As many others have already pointed out, sometimes Steam has prices that are really cheap; and sometimes Steam has prices that are really high. I've gotten some great deals from Steam; and in other cases I've looked at their prices and decided to try Amazon, or take a drive to my local Micro Center.

Like any other business, Steam is going to charge what they think people will pay. You, as the consumer, get to choose whether or not you'll pay their price or go someplace else. If enough people stop paying the higher prices for digital prices, they'll come down. If people keep paying, they'll stay up. It's really that simple.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:00 pm

l33t-g4m3r wrote:This. The huge price disparity between steam and a physical box is what irritates people.

I don't disagree that some games cost more on steam. What I fundamentally disagree with is that people think they should get the price they want lowest price available everytime they purchase. My post was simply pointing out that there is more than the price at stake for me personally; the other services and features are worth something.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Retail CD Keys: Only steam specified titles.

The point was that for many of the games that people are complaining about, you can buy it elsewhere. No, not any key will work, but you can check and but it cheaper elsewhere if it's on the list.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Backup: I'm quite capable of doing it myself.

I'm sure you are. Do you make backups. Perhaps you missed the nearly 1 TB of games I'd be backing up? People are in different situations, and thus have different needs.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Updates: sometimes I don't want to update a game. Steam isn't the only program available to force "help" you update either.

You do know that you can disable updates on any given game within steam?

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Friends: You don't need steam. Xfire and gamespy come to mind.

I'm well aware of those programs; the problem is all of your friends have to have it installed. I would venture to guess that steam has a much larger installed userbase.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Every single one of the talking points can be countered. It just comes down to steam being a bundle of services that you can't get with a single program, so it's a no-effort alternative.

Yeah, I guess you didn't read the last paragraph of my post.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:It just comes down to steam being a bundle of services that you can't get with a single program, so it's a no-effort alternative.

Yes, that is what we call value, and shockingly, some people are will to pay for that.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:...bundle of services catered to the lazy

Or the affluent, or those that see value in that bundle of services, which apparently millions of people do.

It's clear that your bottom line motivation is cost, and that's fine. Maybe you're frugal, or poor, or just have more time than money. Good for you. Go ahead and install xfire for friends, make your weekly backups, use your time to shop for the "best deal," find the latest updates and download/install them, research system requirements, etc.

Just because you choose to do that because it's cheaper doesn't automatically make those who avail themselves of steam's services, even if at a premium, wrong. It's very similar to people buying a closed system like a Mac because although it costs more, there are certain advantages people are willing to pay for.

It seems that you simultaneously dislike steam and yet you support them with your wallet. There's a word for that behavior: hypocrisy.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:29 pm

I just don't get the hate for Steam. People claim to be raped by their pricing. Ya can't rape the willing. Buy elsewhere.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:21 pm

Jason181 wrote:Just because you choose to do that because it's cheaper doesn't automatically make those who avail themselves of steam's services, even if at a premium, wrong. It's very similar to people buying a closed system like a Mac because although it costs more, there are certain advantages people are willing to pay for.

First off, let's make something clear, the title of the thread is "Steam price rant", not "Steam has awesome services and that justifies terrible prices rant". People don't like the price disparity with older games that should be dirt cheap, especially through a digital service that is chock full of drm. The people who are irritated here do not care about steam's services, just the prices. Digital should be cheaper than physical.

Jason181 wrote:It seems that you simultaneously dislike steam and yet you support them with your wallet. There's a word for that behavior: hypocrisy.

No, it's called being frugal, a smart shopper, thrifty, getting more for your money, price comparing. We don't buy into the cult of Mac steam, and buy from whomever gives us the best deal. Value isn't paying 200% more, and services don't make up for that. Steam doesn't deserve a cult with it's pitfalls. If any digital distributor does, it would be GOG. They are the only company I can think of that actually deserves a "cult" following, and that's only because they've earned it on every front.
TheEmrys wrote:Ya can't rape the willing. Buy elsewhere.

Exactly, and we will. But that doesn't mean we don't have the right to complain about ludicrous gibs prices either. If steam gets the hint, then it's a win for everyone, even them because they get more sales.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:52 pm

bthylafh wrote:#FirstWorldProblems


I'm glad somebody said it.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:36 am

The only problem with more sales is that it doesn't necessarily mean more money. I'm sure they have very smart people setting prices to maximize profit. Even if they don't, like someone else said you don't need to buy from them.

You can complain all you want, but until it hits their bottom line, I seriously doubt anyone is going to listen. It's called capitalism, and it's one of those things that makes America great (now I realize that some of you don't live in America, but we're discussing an American company).

So essentially you're just complaining to complain.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:14 am

Jason181 wrote:It's called capitalism, and it's one of those things that makes America great.
HAHAHAHAHA. We don't have capitalism in Amerikka, we have Crony Capitalism, or more accurately: Corporatism. Michael Moore's socialist brainwashing movie was accurate up to the point where he calls it capitalism. True American free market capitalism is mostly dead. Little girls can't even sell lemonade anymore. But I digress, and so did you.
Steam isn't part of the free market. They don't match prices, and you can't sell your games or your account. You have little rights, there are no distribution costs, and as such there is no excuse for the high prices. I'm not surprised people don't like it, as they have every right to be. Steam is ripping you off, and that's it's business model. I have nothing against their services, but everything against their business model. It's theft. They steal your money through unjustified prices, and keep it permanently through drm. Physical media you can resell, and there is a limit on how many copies you can saturate the market with. Steam is an end-run of the market saturation limitation of physical media. They know damn well what they have created, because you can't saturate the market with digital software, and you eliminate competition with resellers. Even with low prices it's a black hole monopoly that just sucks money. The money never goes anywhere else but steam. It's a complete scam, and I refuse to pay retail prices for any of their products, let alone higher prices vs a competitor.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:42 am

standingmammoth wrote:I didn't know people actually payed full price for games on steam. I thought everyone just waited for the sales...


Yeah, it's sort of a yin and yang situation when it comes to Steam pricing. Their sales are often really great deals, but their regular prices are often WAY higher than buying+shipping a physical copy. A digital copy should never be more than physical IMO (equal pricing is acceptable though). Bandwidth is extremely cheap when you are using the amount Valve does, certainly a whole lot cheaper than making the DVD, packaging, and shipping it.
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:02 am

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Steam isn't part of the free market.


Wow, I don't know where you went to school, but I'd ask for your money back if your definition of a free market is price-matching and resale rights.

What you're describing is the antithesis of a free market; it's a market where all like items cost the same, regardless of the additional services the vendor might provide. Do you realize what would happen if this ideal were imposed on vendors? Bare minimum or nonexistent service and support everywhere. Artificial product "segmentation" where different skus offer only different levels of service. Likely higher overall prices, or lower availability; if the lowest price offered is the determining factor, many vendors will simply choose not to carry products because they can't compete. The destruction of "mom and pop" shops, and probably most brick and mortars.

You would likely be creating an inadvertent monopoly. Entrenched delivery systems with lower costs and fully amortized research and development would simply undercut the competition until there was none left, or leave one ailing but "credible" threat to avoid monopoly accusations.

A little foresight goes a long way. And before you say, "But Best Buy matches prices," remember that they do that by choice.

Your utopian free market was tried and it didn't last; companies become monopolies, many services have such intensive capital investments that many would go unserved, product safety takes a backseat to profits, lack of quality control in things we take for granted such as medicine and drinking water would wreak havoc with public health, and on, and on, and on.

I am a fan of capitalism, but there are some controls that need to be in place. Michael Moore is the liberal version of Rush Limbaugh and I have no respect for him, or time for his movies, so I'm not really sure what kinda bs he's spouting, but he's spouting it to make money. And you can bet your bottom dollar he's doing it through a corporation (probably several), so I'd take his "facts" with a grain of salt.
Jason181
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Re: Steam price rant

Postposted on Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:43 am

And we've reached the R&P Event Horizon. One step further and this whole thread moves to R&P.

Thanks for listening.
It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them. Ralph Waldo Emerson.
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