Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention...

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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:49 pm

I've reverted back to 270.61 for the time being and the problem seems to have gone away. This might not be ideal but its better than my driver crapping out every ten minutes.

I thought Team Green had better drivers, but "better" seems to be a relative term.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:12 pm

For months I was hating on my Nvidia video card (GeForce GTS 450) and the current and/or older drivers (v260.89) that were installed/re-installed on my Windows 7 x64 OS...

It was my MONITOR the entire time! When I finally got the motivation itch to change the blown capacitors in my other Samsung SyncMaster 226BW monitor, no driver issues ever came up again! In fact, it's been running flawlessly 24/7 for the past month without a crash. Previous to that it was almost a daily occurrence!

I am running nvidia's driver v285.62 flawlessly now! So happy!
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:19 pm

This sounds exactly like my current situation with my ATI 6870. XFX is going up and down suggesting everything under the sun. My problem really spikes when using flash videos or windows 3d titan chess, but its an ATI card. Same message though, responding and recovering.

The problem is extremely widespread online with ATI cards as well. The only thing I've seen that is the same for most is the cards' drivers get unstable when the card switches from low power draw to higher draw. For mine its when I turn on windows aero or use windows benchmark. For others its using games. My vendor thinks its a power supply issue, but everything was fine with mine for months. Things went bad for me around mid November. Only thing I remember updating was Virtu drivers, but now I'm unstable on any OS I try.

Since this affects both ATI and Nvidia, have folks looked into Windows being the culprit? I know some folks have seen success uninstalling a specific Vista update with the issue.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:40 am

@Vidus

I actually had this problem reappear after a Windows 7 update. After i uninstalled them the problem got fixed again. I also think it's related to power saving schemes both at the OS level and hardware driver level.

When i used to have the error it got a lot less annoying when i activated all the power saving crap i could, starting from windows from Control Panel>Power Options and ending with Cool&Quiet driver (yes driver) since it was already activated in the BIOS but Action Center kept asking me to install the driver....

It's hard to pin point, from my experience it involves the video card driver, OS settings and updates and power saving settings and drivers.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:34 pm

@Arclight

That would jive with what my GPU vendor told me. They seemed to think the issue came from the card switching from a low to higher power state.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:03 pm

I don't have time to read this thread in its entirety, but I've had this GPU driver crash and reset through 3 nvidia GPU's and two motherboards (Q9550+GTX460, 2500K+550Ti, 2500K+560Ti)

My experience is a black screen during Firefox browsing, a driver restart and then the the Aero effects get disabled with a warning.
It seems to happen mostly when I have a game minimised, but I've seen this crash without any games running.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:09 am

thegleek wrote:For months I was hating on my Nvidia video card (GeForce GTS 450) and the current and/or older drivers (v260.89) that were installed/re-installed on my Windows 7 x64 OS...

It was my MONITOR the entire time! When I finally got the motivation itch to change the blown capacitors in my other Samsung SyncMaster 226BW monitor, no driver issues ever came up again! In fact, it's been running flawlessly 24/7 for the past month without a crash. Previous to that it was almost a daily occurrence!

I am running nvidia's driver v285.62 flawlessly now! So happy!

So... 1 month later... problem still exists! ARGH! :evil:

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Seriously. I think an Nvidia strike is in order. This card needs to go. Nvidia itself needs to be purged from society as a company so it doesn't peddle it's defunct hardware on the masses!

I am on the current driver now (v285.62) - i gave up with all the useless 275.x ones with windows 7 64bit.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:27 am

It happened to me again yesterday. The system became unresponsive, the screen went black then it opened again and showed me the "recovered w/e" BS. At this point idk wtf is going on, i was just listening a song on youtube (using the latest flash player version) in one tab and in the other i was browsing TR site (on firefox btw). I have a GTX 560 Ti and i'm seriously Krogoth about nvidia's famous drivers.

After the incident i started again looking for solutions and found this video on youtube

Edit:
Can't find the video right now, but it just tells you to go to "Nvidia control panel>Manage 3D settings>Global settings>Power Management mode> Prefer maximum performance.

Then go to Program settings (the other tab) and check the box called "Show only programs found on this computer" and do the same for the power management mode for all the programs that were running when you experienced the driver fail. Some, as i noticed weren't listed there so you can press "Add" and browse and select the executable of that program.

I did what it said, i'm waiting to see if the error happens again. Damn it i thought i solved it as it didn't happen for more than a month now....
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:51 am

I really must be missing something for it seems that in the first post of the thread Jon outright told all of you having problems what the solution is...

Jon wrote:The issue cannot be pinned on bad hardware because by simply reverting to the 275.xx series of drivers gamers no longer experience TDR issues.


So why is everyone trying to be so complex? If you have this problem, do the solution immediately and wait till Nvidia solves the driver issue at some future time. Generally, there isn't that much functionality added with each new driver released that it is worth chasing driver releases. Let others frustrate themselves and save yourselves the headaches.

Complexity, should only occur if the given solution doesn't fix the problem. Further, if it doesn't fix the problem then you can no longer exclude HW as the issue since this solution is given as the proof that it isn't HW.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:34 am

P5-133XL wrote:I really must be missing something for it seems that in the first post of the thread Jon outright told all of you having problems what the solution is...

Jon wrote:The issue cannot be pinned on bad hardware because by simply reverting to the 275.xx series of drivers gamers no longer experience TDR issues.


So why is everyone trying to be so complex? If you have this problem, do the solution immediately and wait till Nvidia solves the driver issue at some future time. Generally, there isn't that much functionality added with each new driver released that it is worth chasing driver releases. Let others frustrate themselves and save yourselves the headaches.

Complexity, should only occur if the given solution doesn't fix the problem. Further, if it doesn't fix the problem then you can no longer exclude HW as the issue since this solution is given as the proof that it isn't HW.


I know you are trying to be reasonable but you should understand that nvidia's myth is that they have better drivers. When i made the decision between 2 simillarly priced and performing products from 2 different vendors i chose nvidia due to their promise of better driver support. And here i am with malfunctioning driver being told to use older versions while giving up performance and driver optimization for newer games.

At the same time you tell me it could be caused by physical damage? And yet if i send it for replacement the shop will test the card and see it working. So if the card is damaged causing random errors and yet the warranty won't recognize this as an issue, has nvidia actually sc*wed me? Wow, someone will be getting an angry e-mail and bad PR around the interwebz by yours truelly.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:50 am

nVidia *had* much better drivers for years. These days nVidia and ATI are pretty close in driver quality IMO.

Don't get me started on ATI's driver *installer* though. What a train wreck. I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to update ATI drivers on someone's PC at the office, and had the installer bomb out with some very unhelpful error message. (About half the time, it's an incompatibility between the installer and the version of the .NET libraries you've got installed... duh.)
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:02 pm

just brew it! wrote:About half the time, it's an incompatibility between the installer and the version of the .NET libraries you've got installed.
Ding ding ding!

That's been my experience, too. That's why I try to keep .NET up to date.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:11 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
just brew it! wrote:About half the time, it's an incompatibility between the installer and the version of the .NET libraries you've got installed.

Ding ding ding!

That's been my experience, too. That's why I try to keep .NET up to date.

Would be nice if they could check up front and pop up a message saying "Please install .NET runtime version x.x" instead of just blowing up with a message (or even no message!) that leaves you absolutely clueless as to why things have gone badly, horribly wrong. IIRC on a couple of occasions, it has even needed a specific point release of an older (deprecated) .NET version... so even installing the latest and greatest .NET doesn't always fix it.

Edit: I guess you don't put your "A Team" developers on the installation tool, since the "A Team" guys don't want to work on that. License servers for managing floating licensing of commercial software is another major sore spot -- they *all* suck. (Altium's license manager being one of the major irritants I need to deal with at work... egads, their license server must've been written by drunken monkeys. No, wait... I take that back... drunken monkeys would've probably done a better job.)
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:43 pm

P5-133XL wrote:I really must be missing something for it seems that in the first post of the thread Jon outright told all of you having problems what the solution is...

Jon wrote:The issue cannot be pinned on bad hardware because by simply reverting to the 275.xx series of drivers gamers no longer experience TDR issues.


So why is everyone trying to be so complex? If you have this problem, do the solution immediately and wait till Nvidia solves the driver issue at some future time. Generally, there isn't that much functionality added with each new driver released that it is worth chasing driver releases.

I've had v260.89 installed previously and still experienced these bsod's...

Are you telling me they (nvidia) fixed something between 260.x and 275.x and then re-broke it again from 275.x to 285.x? not.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:56 pm

thegleek wrote:I've had v260.89 installed previously and still experienced these bsod's...

Are you telling me they (nvidia) fixed something between 260.x and 275.x and then re-broke it again from 275.x to 285.x? not.


I believe you have a damaged video card, not a driver issue.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:33 pm

thegleek wrote:I've had v260.89 installed previously and still experienced these bsod's...

Are you telling me they (nvidia) fixed something between 260.x and 275.x and then re-broke it again from 275.x to 285.x? not.

I didn't say that 275.xx was the definitive version, rather Jon did. What I have issue about was the all the complex issues and diagnostic's with all the different later versions being discussed in this thread when this thread is supposed to be all about the solution i.e. 275.xx. As such the only real discussion should be about 275.xx failing or I tried version xxx.yy but it failed so then I replaced it with 275.xx and everything worked. It should be all about either confirming or refuting Jon's hypothesis. Everything else is just a complex distraction from the whole point of the thread.

That being said, It is quite possible for things to re-break in a later version, but I don't know that that is the case in your specific situation.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:23 am

Ryu Connor wrote:I believe you have a damaged video card, not a driver issue.

Is there a test or benchmark app I can run to prove this?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:59 am

morphine wrote:Civilization V in DX11 mode triggered this, nearly every time a leader popped up, with my GTX 460. Haven't tried with my new 570 yet.


Force DX10 mode for Leader Profiles. Issue averted.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:19 am

This issue seems to effect everyone. Myself and my friend with a 6950. It's annoying, run into it a lot in combination with gawker blogs and embedded youtube vids.

That's what I've seen for so long with AMD cards.
Flash has been updating like mad for some time, and Firefox is on an extended update spree as well. Combine that with the windows updates, and dot net for AMD, and you have a mess.
We AMD card owners were forced to open a flash video, and turn off video acellerration in the hopes that would fix it.
If Nvidia is finally having a problem (don't on my Nvidia cards no matter the driver), they're late in catching up with the terrible AMD driver problems in this very area.
I am still sick of the inexplicable Grey Screens of Death with AMD cards. The green dots, sometimes yellow, sometimes red. The black screens, and the no VPU recovering... the scratching mix buzzing with the repeating sound error, reminiscent of old 16 bit sound blaster cards in any machine.
I haven't bought my 7000 series card yet, but from what I've been seeing so far, it's a mess for drivers like the rest of AMD's on half the cards everyone buys and uses.
The problem in this thread is multiple issues, that's why people tarry about on this and that, and don't focus on just testing the older driver in question.
Get used to it I'd say. AMD had 10.3a then 12 failed drivers in a row, and their updates commonly break as much as they purportedly fix - although I will praise them for FINALLY getting some crossfire drivers with some scaling in 6900 series after HardOCP decided to attack their benefactor on the matter - at which point I watched Terry Makedon (catalyst maker now ad maker) claim he was unaware there was a problem...
Since this concerns a browser and specifically Firefox, I'd suggest checking addons and plug ins, and highjackers, your hosts file, and any of the other various software related issues.
We see that one person claimed the fix was in then chimed in a month later with the same problem... so "the fix is not in" until whenever.
As we've seen a million times a million times AMD users have to use certain drivers reverting far back in the line up, if some Nvidia users finally have to, it's only fair.
BTW - it's not just the driver, as using a different web browser or an older version of that is a fix, as well as some versions of flash were just terrible, so that is highly suspect as well - and they pump out plenty of updates - so one has to do WHAT WORKS for them.
AMD drivers do not work as well as Nvidia drivers in many situations and overall, even considering this terrible issue. One error does not balance unending years of the same and worse.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:25 am

PS - also I'd like to note that sometimes Java holds a virus in a jar or just has some sort of hidden corruption, and can affect browsing - if you haven't run a full scan in a long time (on large hard drives one can surely understand why), try uninstalling flash and all your java, then reinstalling both. That has worked for some. Don't forget if you're using system restore and your restore space is full, it will push out old points and there's another chance of a viral glitch activating that was hidden. Many other browser additions and add ons can conflict and trigger things as well. Go to add remove or programs and features and sort by date, then match that up with your suspected driver release/update date, you might get somewhere with that.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am

Silicondoc wrote: AMD drivers do not work as well as Nvidia drivers in many situations and overall, even considering this terrible issue. One error does not balance unending years of the same and worse.

As someone who's been back and forth between AMD and Nvidia in these past few years, I think you're off the mark. I've found significant issues with both vendors.

Nvida issues I've come across: as mentioned, with my previous GTX 460, Civ V crashed on leader screens. Then my gamma settings weren't applied on boot half the times. Right now with my 570, if the monitors go into power-saving mode running a fullscreen app, my gamma resets, and it resets *again* if I alt-tab out. A friend has major issues with BF3 crashes. Flat panel scaling was outright broken for a few years, thankfully it's fixed. There's this TDR issue, etc.

Although AMD had pretty poor driver quality in the early 2000s, that's not really the case anymore.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:42 am

Years ago I think Carmack was on to something when he categorized the nature of bugs in a driver into different categories.

A. Whether the driver adheres to the API standards (DirectX, OpenGL, OpenCL). (Bugs in the game engine can muddle fault in this)
B. Whether the driver is feature functional (broken scaling, color profile issues, giant cursors).
C. Whether the driver is stable (TDR, BSOD).

Given the situation with several high profile titles last year (Rage especially notable among them), I think NVIDIA still has an advantage on bullet A.

B and C? I'd agree both vendors have an equal number of faults there.

-

To somewhat bring this back on topic. 290.53 had one TDR fix in it. 295.51 has another TDR fix in it. Despite this some people are still stuck on 275.33 and a third TDR fix is apparently forthcoming.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:32 am

morphine wrote:
Silicondoc wrote: AMD drivers do not work as well as Nvidia drivers in many situations and overall, even considering this terrible issue. One error does not balance unending years of the same and worse.

As someone who's been back and forth between AMD and Nvidia in these past few years, I think you're off the mark. I've found significant issues with both vendors.

Nvida issues I've come across: as mentioned, with my previous GTX 460, Civ V crashed on leader screens. Then my gamma settings weren't applied on boot half the times. Right now with my 570, if the monitors go into power-saving mode running a fullscreen app, my gamma resets, and it resets *again* if I alt-tab out. A friend has major issues with BF3 crashes. Flat panel scaling was outright broken for a few years, thankfully it's fixed. There's this TDR issue, etc.

Although AMD had pretty poor driver quality in the early 2000s, that's not really the case anymore.


AMD still has terrible drivers and whole classes of cards that crash. Worse yet, often there are no fixes. The system must be rebooted, and it happens again, and again, and again... for YEARS literally people try to find a fix and there isn't one. A hundred different cures are offered and claimed but then a little time shows they really solved little or nothing, it was just the euphoria the user experienced as the dastardly system takedown issue was for a short time, not prevalent.
You can think I'm off all you want, but I'm not anywhere near off. Nvidia solves their issues 99 times out of 100 in sohrt order, while AMD has an endless, and continuing, and ever expanding list.
They did solve CRAPPY CF scaling, but that was present for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS before they finally came up to Nvidia levels...
You mention a single crash issue, but YOU KNOW in what area and game it crashed - unlike AMDATI cards, where ANY CRASH in ANY GAME at ANY TIME goes.
You won't EVER convince anyone who has a clue.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:25 am

Is this yet another compensated NVidia shill or just a fanboy?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:33 am

Silicondoc wrote:
morphine wrote:[...]AMD still has terrible drivers and whole classes of cards that crash. Worse yet, often there are no fixes. The system must be rebooted, and it happens again, and again, and again... for YEARS literally people try to find a fix and there isn't one. [...]
You can think I'm off all you want, but I'm not anywhere near off. Nvidia solves their issues 99 times out of 100 in sohrt order, while AMD has an endless, and continuing, and ever expanding list.
They did solve CRAPPY CF scaling, but that was present for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS before they finally came up to Nvidia levels...
You mention a single crash issue, but YOU KNOW in what area and game it crashed - unlike AMDATI cards, where ANY CRASH in ANY GAME at ANY TIME goes.
You won't EVER convince anyone who has a clue.


Uh oh, someone's rooting for the bear.

Look it's kinda hard to take you seriously when you are so fanatic. Plus we are all here talking about a known NVIDIA issue. If you want to talk at length about ATI/AMD's allegedly crappy drivers feel free but make your own topic.

@topic.Since my last TDR i have switched to IE 9, i disabled flash player hardware acceleration and i have set the power management mode from the control panel (Global settings tab) to "Prefer maximum performance".

I'm still running driver 285.62 and so far i haven't experienced another TDR, but it might be to early to speak. I mean i went months last time and i thought i'd fixed it and yet....
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:08 pm

Silicondoc is back?

Didn't he get banned from XS and TR comments a while back?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:45 pm

270.61 seemed to have solved my TDR problem, but then, like a bad penny, it came back. Not as frequent as the ones with 275.xx, but still annoying.

Since I had to reinstall Windows 7 anyway, I updated to 285.79, which seems to have solved the TDRs. 285.79 is a beta driver, but I have to use it because the WHQL driver listed on NVIDIA's page - 285.62 (dated 10/24/2011) - has a known issue, breaking Windows Media Center (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=213923).

Someone hurry up and invent a vendor-neutral GPU ISA so that we don't have to use drivers anymore, argh.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:10 pm

r00t61 wrote:Since I had to reinstall Windows 7 anyway, I updated to 285.79, which seems to have solved the TDRs. 285.79 is a beta driver, but I have to use it because the WHQL driver listed on NVIDIA's page - 285.62 (dated 10/24/2011) - has a known issue, breaking Windows Media Center (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=213923).

o_O I may have to try that beta driver out then. My win7 (64) crashed/TDR'd on me last night again. I am still on 285.62 - 'twas depressing. :evil:

But I also noticed there are 3 more newer drivers beyond 285.79... What do you think about 290.36, 290.53, and the very recent 295.51?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:16 pm

I've been following this particular drama on the NVIDIA forums since it kicked off with the 280.26 release. As with most broad driver problem the issue has begun to have problems attached to it that are not related to the actual issue.

If 275.33 or older are giving you TDR issues then your problem isn't related to what spawned this thread and potentially isn't a driver problem.

Using 275.33 or older will allow for use of Direct2D in Chrome, IE9, and FireFox under Vista or 7 without TDRs. The moment you upgrade past 275.33 TDRs will begin occuring in 2D, but not in 3D. Downgrading to 275.33 resolves the issue.

Issues before 275.33, with 275.33, or involving 3D (e.g. game) related TDR events or BSOD are not a known NVIDIA issue. It's more likely it is a SMD issue with your card or a quirk specific your exact set of hardware and software.

290.53 & 295.51 each have 2D TDR fixes that have helped some people, others are still stuck on 275.33 to avoid TDRs.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:10 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:I've been following this particular drama on the NVIDIA forums since it kicked off with the 280.26 release. As with most broad driver problem the issue has begun to have problems attached to it that are not related to the actual issue.

If 275.33 or older are giving you TDR issues then your problem isn't related to what spawned this thread and potentially isn't a driver problem.

Using 275.33 or older will allow for use of Direct2D in Chrome, IE9, and FireFox under Vista or 7 without TDRs. The moment you upgrade past 275.33 TDRs will begin occuring in 2D, but not in 3D. Downgrading to 275.33 resolves the issue.

Issues before 275.33, with 275.33, or involving 3D (e.g. game) related TDR events or BSOD are not a known NVIDIA issue. It's more likely it is a SMD issue with your card or a quirk specific your exact set of hardware and software.

290.53 & 295.51 each have 2D TDR fixes that have helped some people, others are still stuck on 275.33 to avoid TDRs.


I have been able to go 2 weeks now without TDR on 285.62 by changing the power management mode to "performance". Granted i have switched back to IE 9 so idk what exactly has helped me avoid it. Maybe i'll install FF back to do some tests but frankly it would be counter productive for ME to create problems when i seem to have "fixed it".

Edit:
I got the TDR again a few days ago and switched to 296.10.....so far so good but it's too early to tell.
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